PDA

View Full Version : 5150 Cassette questions



gkavner
August 21st, 2006, 01:06 AM
1. Was there ever any commercially released cassette software for the 5150?

2. I know the device was referred to as CAS1: but is there any way to access it under DOS? That is, is the ONLY way to use it being out of Cassette Basic itself?

3. Was the Cassette port on the PCjr the same as the DIN plug on the 5150?

4. [not cassette related] I read somewhere that early DOS had support for 250k 8" disk drives built in but no manufacturer ever supported the feature. Is this true?

Thanks.

Erik
August 21st, 2006, 08:07 AM
1. Was there ever any commercially released cassette software for the 5150?

If there ever was I never saw any. The closest I ever did see was a cassette used for testing a tape drive with diagnostics.


2. I know the device was referred to as CAS1: but is there any way to access it under DOS? That is, is the ONLY way to use it being out of Cassette Basic itself?

You could access the cassette port via BASIC, even if booted from DOS. I spent a bit of time trying to emulate an Atari 800 language course that would play the tutor recorded on the tape. I could start and stop the motor, load and save data but never get the damn audio out of the cassette, so I gave up. That was in '82.


3. Was the Cassette port on the PCjr the same as the DIN plug on the 5150?

Mike? :D


4. [not cassette related] I read somewhere that early DOS had support for 250k 8" disk drives built in but no manufacturer ever supported the feature. Is this true?

I don't recall seeing anything about that in any of the DOS manuals.

mbbrutman
August 21st, 2006, 08:19 AM
1. Was there ever any commercially released cassette software for the 5150?

2. I know the device was referred to as CAS1: but is there any way to access it under DOS? That is, is the ONLY way to use it being out of Cassette Basic itself?

3. Was the Cassette port on the PCjr the same as the DIN plug on the 5150?

4. [not cassette related] I read somewhere that early DOS had support for 250k 8" disk drives built in but no manufacturer ever supported the feature. Is this true?

Thanks.

1. I've not seen any commerical cassette software. I have Diagnostics on Cassette from IBM, which is the only cassette for any IBM I've ever seen.

2. I've not tried accessing CAS1: from DOS. I suspect it would puke. Only BASIC knows what to do with it. However, the routines for reading and writing out the cassette port are in the BIOS of the machine, so you could write programs to use the port if you wanted to. It's really a slow speed serial interface, somewhere around 1200 bps.

3. Nope. Damned PCjr ports are all square BERG connectors, except for the composite video and audio jacks which are familiar RCA plugs.

4. I've heard rumors, but not ever seen it. The PC floppy controller uses fairly standard off the shelf parts. If you have an 8" floppy drive using a Shugart derived interface, you should be able to run it from a PC. You'll need custom cabling, but the electronics should be fine.

gkavner
August 21st, 2006, 10:07 AM
This may shed some light on the 8" floppy issue

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;140060

Terry Yager
August 21st, 2006, 11:09 AM
I have seen MS-DOS on 8" disks, for machines like the Zenith Z-100 and Xerox 8/16, but not for the IBM-PC.

The pinout of the cassette is the same as the TRS-80 cable. You might be able to get one from RadioShack.

--T

dreddnott
August 29th, 2006, 07:41 PM
Many years ago, before I was old enough to know better, I saw a 8" floppy disk drive cabinet with two 8" floppy drives in it, 37-pin connector, connected to an old IBM PC/XT/AT (don't remember anymore).

It was at a thrift store and not commanding a spectacular price, so I probably could have snagged the whole setup. Tragically I did not.

I think I thought it was too big or something.

carlsson
August 30th, 2006, 05:22 AM
An 8" floppy drive is something you expect to encounter in a thrift store that day you took the bicycle for a roundtrip and made a short stop in the store.. If the store has a no-reserve policy, you'd better hurry home to get your car or perhaps take the bus home, carrying the drive in your hands.

gkavner
August 31st, 2006, 02:18 AM
Many years ago, before I was old enough to know better, I saw a 8" floppy disk drive cabinet with two 8" floppy drives in it, 37-pin connector, connected to an old IBM PC/XT/AT (don't remember anymore).

It was at a thrift store and not commanding a spectacular price, so I probably could have snagged the whole setup. Tragically I did not.

I think I thought it was too big or something.

That beats pretty much all of my tragic collecting stories. That is tragic. A tragic would view that as a serious tragedy.

I wonder if that 8" unit was a commercial product or a homebrew? And it was definitely connected to a badged IBM computer?

dreddnott
August 31st, 2006, 06:13 AM
Yup, a regular IBM. I knew the difference even then. The setup seemed commercial (or at least professional) to me.

I actually haven't been to the thrift stores much at all since I started doing the recycled computer biz.

The last time I went, though, I ran across a fairly early 16K CoCo 1 for $3 (at first I thought it was a 4K).

Frankie
September 1st, 2006, 11:02 PM
Many years ago, before I was old enough to know better, I saw a 8" floppy disk drive cabinet with two 8" floppy drives in it, 37-pin connector, connected to an old IBM PC/XT/AT (don't remember anymore).

It was at a thrift store and not commanding a spectacular price, so I probably could have snagged the whole setup. Tragically I did not.

I think I thought it was too big or something.I know how thatís like, you see something at the thrift store that isnít useful, then after a couple of years you regret not getting it, its a bitch.

That reminds me when I saw an old Odyssey 2 computer at a thrift store. It was in itís original box and had all of its cables but no cartridges. When I saw it I thought about getting it, but I really didnít have any use for it (mainly since it didnít have any cartridges), so I left it. That was one year ago.


I actually haven't been to the thrift stores much at all since I started doing the recycled computer biz.You must see a lot of neat things.

Terry Yager
September 9th, 2006, 09:21 AM
My biggest regret is not grabbing-up the (portable) reel-to-reel VCR I saw at daSally a few years back for eight bucks. Of course, when I did go back for it, it was gone...

--T

gkavner
November 3rd, 2006, 08:42 AM
Yep, it's happenning, finally after 25 years. I'm converting the source of "Football Manager" (a soccer management game) to exclusive IBM Cassette format. It will cost u production (cassette, inlay printing and postage) + 1 cent. From Australia maybe $3 roughly. Probably less. I might even do a VC ad campaign with some nice commercial style advert (*only 1cent*) to compliment the release.

Therefore I plan to market the one and only IBM PC Cassette based game commercially in history!! (Just to prove that it occurred).

I still have to clear it with the original author but I'm in good contact with him and he's pretty cool about copyright on his old stuff these days (it was released originally in 1981).

Give me a month or 2 and then fire up your 5150's baby! Get down to radio shack now for your cables and steal that mono cassette deck from church or the local school... cassette commercial software is here!!

I'll make sure it has a groovy inlay and tape label. The game isn't anything to write home about but in basic who cares? It'll all be text based but if u like soccer it IS a great game. I promise, it's not crap. read reviews of it from UK sites "Kevin Toms Football Manager". Mine is based on the Vic20 source.

Greg.

PS. How dare u think of pirating the source and marketing it for yourself;)

PPS. Well pirate it if u want (i dont care) but that defeats the point... It will be the first (only?) software ever marketed exclusively for IBM PC cassette.

PPPS. Makes ya feel good to own a 5150 don't it!!!!!!

mbbrutman
November 3rd, 2006, 08:55 AM
Your enthusiasm is contagious.

I still need to make the diagnostics available on casette for you .. I have not forgotten.

Great Hierophant
November 3rd, 2006, 02:35 PM
Yep, it's happenning, finally after 25 years. I'm converting the source of "Football Manager" (a soccer management game) to exclusive IBM Cassette format. It will cost u production (cassette, inlay printing and postage) + 1 cent. From Australia maybe $3 roughly. Probably less. I might even do a VC ad campaign with some nice commercial style advert (*only 1cent*) to compliment the release.

Therefore I plan to market the one and only IBM PC Cassette based game commercially in history!! (Just to prove that it occurred).

I still have to clear it with the original author but I'm in good contact with him and he's pretty cool about copyright on his old stuff these days (it was released originally in 1981).

Give me a month or 2 and then fire up your 5150's baby! Get down to radio shack now for your cables and steal that mono cassette deck from church or the local school... cassette commercial software is here!!

I'll make sure it has a groovy inlay and tape label. The game isn't anything to write home about but in basic who cares? It'll all be text based but if u like soccer it IS a great game. I promise, it's not crap. read reviews of it from UK sites "Kevin Toms Football Manager". Mine is based on the Vic20 source.

Greg.

PS. How dare u think of pirating the source and marketing it for yourself;)

PPS. Well pirate it if u want (i dont care) but that defeats the point... It will be the first (only?) software ever marketed exclusively for IBM PC cassette.

PPPS. Makes ya feel good to own a 5150 don't it!!!!!!

If you are going to make this, would you be so good as to make sure it works in the only other PC known to sport a cassette interface, an IBM PCjr. Also, the software would not exclusively be marketed for the cassette if it had previously been released in disk form in 1981. I wish someone actually had the drive to make a unique IBM PC cassette game some day that works with the minimum 16KB configuration.

Mad-Mike
November 3rd, 2006, 04:48 PM
Mike? :D

LOLZ! If I only knew more about 8" drives, and actually had them, a controller, and some Disks, I'm crazy enough that I would actually try it on my XT.

mbbrutman
November 4th, 2006, 06:41 AM
If you are going to make this, would you be so good as to make sure it works in the only other PC known to sport a cassette interface, an IBM PCjr. Also, the software would not exclusively be marketed for the cassette if it had previously been released in disk form in 1981. I wish someone actually had the drive to make a unique IBM PC cassette game some day that works with the minimum 16KB configuration.

Open up a BASIC manual and get going!

Programming a simple game in BASIC isn't hard. The problem is making it entertaining for more than 5 minutes. BASIC is slow so almost any shooting game is out of the question.

Cassette BASIC on the PC and the PCjr are about equivalent, so there is not compatibility issue. PCjr users with the BASIC cartridge can get better graphics and sound, even on a casette program.

Slelnecker
December 1st, 2006, 03:34 AM
At this late date you probably don't care, but...

In the 80's I wrote an assembler program for the pc that could read text files off a cassette written by a TRS80. There are Bios routines to control the port. My program worked well at reading tapes but I could never write a tape that the TRS-80 would understand.

james1
December 1st, 2006, 05:24 AM
how do i post a question on this forum?


1. Was there ever any commercially released cassette software for the 5150?

2. I know the device was referred to as CAS1: but is there any way to access it under DOS? That is, is the ONLY way to use it being out of Cassette Basic itself?

3. Was the Cassette port on the PCjr the same as the DIN plug on the 5150?

4. [not cassette related] I read somewhere that early DOS had support for 250k 8" disk drives built in but no manufacturer ever supported the feature. Is this true?

Thanks.

chuckcmagee
December 1st, 2006, 06:29 AM
ebay has casette cables for sale every day. Just look in the trs-80 section of vintage. Think I ended up with like 5 of them. Case of all my attempts at getting a cable working at once.

IBMMuseum
December 1st, 2006, 07:56 PM
how do i post a question on this forum?

You just did...

Trixter
March 16th, 2007, 09:23 PM
I wish someone actually had the drive to make a unique IBM PC cassette game some day that works with the minimum 16KB configuration.

Well, the cassette interface is the only removable storage method available in the ROM BASIC, right? So it would have to be a 16K BASIC program. A game is feasible but probably not too fun... but, is there a way to use BASIC to load a 15.5K COM instead? Because that would be your best bet at something halfway fun/decent to play...

Chuck(G)
October 2nd, 2011, 03:12 PM
4. [not cassette related] I read somewhere that early DOS had support for 250k 8" disk drives built in but no manufacturer ever supported the feature. Is this true?

Depends on what you mean by "support". Did it include DPBs for SSSD 8" (A1 format) floppies? Yes, it did. Was there any BIOS support for those? No, not at all.

mbbrutman
October 2nd, 2011, 03:41 PM
Uh, Chuck, this thread has been dormant for 4 years ...

Chuck(G)
October 2nd, 2011, 04:33 PM
Yeah, but it was referenced by the current "5150 Cassette" thread and it seems there was a question left unanswered.

bettablue
October 4th, 2011, 06:30 AM
I have seen MS-DOS on 8" disks, for machines like the Zenith Z-100 and Xerox 8/16, but not for the IBM-PC.

The pinout of the cassette is the same as the TRS-80 cable. You might be able to get one from RadioShack.

--T

Radio Shack is getting rid of their small parts bins. I wan informed about this a few months ago. So, getting the components from Radio Shack is going to be problematic. Some stores, at least thos in the Las Vegas area have already done away with their small parts supplies. Others are selliing what they have and just not ordering any more. Connectors, resistors, IC chips, capacitors; the entire line will be discontinued by the end of the year. So where does one go to find these items now? It is kind of funny to me, because when I worked at Radio Shack back in the late 70's, small parts made up a pretty good percentage of their sales.

I found a couple electronic parts stores in Vegas, and they have a lot more than Radio Shack ever offered.

And, since I really don't have the dexterity to build the cassette interface cables easily, I met someone on the web. You can see the results here: (Posted in the Hardware forums a few days ago.) Hope it helps.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?27366-IBM-5150-TRS80-cassette-cables

mmruzek
October 9th, 2011, 02:50 PM
Howdy, I just happened to come across this website about the IBM Cassette Diagnostics Tape and they have posted an MP3 of the tape... Might be interesting to give it a try. Regards, Michael

http://www.brutman.com/Cassette_Waveforms/Cassette_Waveforms.html

bettablue
October 15th, 2011, 08:38 AM
I just spotted an original IBM diagnostic cassette on E-Bay. I personally don't want it, but it seems that there are a few here who would find it interesting. If anyone is interested, you can find it here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1981-ADVANCED-DIAGNOSTICS-TAPE-IBM-PC-/250909598001?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6b60a131

On a side note; I'll be connecting my cassette recorder today after installing a couple expansion cards I got. Just researching the installation process right now.

Chuck(G)
October 15th, 2011, 08:59 AM
So that puts to bed the claims that "IBM never released any software in cassette form for the 5150", I guess.

mbbrutman
October 15th, 2011, 09:10 AM
Chuck,

I don't think that anybody has claimed that. The diagnostics cassette is usually noted as the only example of IBM software provided on cassette *IN ANY* form.



Mike

MikeS
October 15th, 2011, 10:59 AM
Chuck,

I don't think that anybody has claimed that. The diagnostics cassette is usually noted as the only example of IBM software provided on cassette *IN ANY* form.

MikeWhy "*IN ANY* form"? If it's provided on cassette, what other form could it be in other than "cassette form"?

Ole Juul
October 15th, 2011, 01:37 PM
Chuck,

I don't think that anybody has claimed that. The diagnostics cassette is usually noted as the only example of IBM software provided on cassette *IN ANY* form.
Mike

That would be a most desirable item for a 5150 collector. I guess it's worth a lot of money now so it's probably out of reach of many people.

mmruzek
October 19th, 2011, 12:32 PM
For future reference: The Diagnostic IBM Cassette tape sold for $100 on EBAY ! 6946