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alexkerhead
August 25th, 2006, 06:59 AM
Since I don't want the pics thread to get uber jacked, we'll just have a thread to yak about turntables and vinyl.

Both are direct drive(i'd use nothing else)
The pioneer is a pl-530 fuly automatic with anti-skate, strobe, speed adjust, 33 and 45 speed select, play/pause/que, it als have many arm weight adjustments.
The second is an Elac Harmicord 10H from germany, it has selections for 16, 33, 45, and 78, full automatic with several arm weight adjustments.
They are run through a Marantz 2265B reciever on 2x JBL L100 Centuries, soon to be 4x L100s. And also through a Marantz 2220B on a set of Large Advents.
The EQ is a 10-band vintage realistic(when they were good)
Wiring is all gold series wiring.
Enjoy the video of the TTs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rObA94KBPg

Luke
August 25th, 2006, 08:17 AM
Alex, that 78 rpm record was the best.

For what is that 16 rpm speed?

chuckcmagee
August 25th, 2006, 08:29 AM
Good idea on new thread. I might see if my Marantz 6350Q still works great. I took the cartridge out today and looked it over very closely. Looks like it will still play records without sending curls of vinyl into the room. I sure don't want to fork out another $100 for a new cart. Might even play "Jesus Christ, Superstar" again sometime today (around 1970 version, the good version).

Oh ya, my Marantz 2238B receiver still works great, as do my Bose 901 speakers. I had to rebuild almost all the speakers in the 901s using new parts. The rubber parts that hold the paper cones had mostly turned into fuzzy dust. The whole rig is from around 1976 so no surprise the speakers had fallen apart. I love that "it appears that the rubber parts of our speakers have become well known for turning into fuzzy dust". Oh welllll, they are good as new now. It was somewhat tricky getting the cones well centered again during gluing.

bbcmicro
August 25th, 2006, 08:56 AM
Just a quick question(s): What are the first signs that the stylus needs replacing? and can an old stylus do serious damage to a record?

chuckcmagee
August 25th, 2006, 09:04 AM
Mine got a little bent to one side during a frequent move. I just bent it back into shape, I looked at it with a moderate power glass and seemed fine. I'm sure that the stylus can do damage. A friend in college had a record player that must have had 20 grams of force. It would destroy the records after about 30 plays. Plus there is the problem of the vinyl getting softer when you play it so you don't want to play the same track over and over with no breaks. I had several "one track" albums where the one good track was screwed from being played toooo sooon after being played once.

Luke
August 25th, 2006, 09:06 AM
You talk about metal or diamond stylus?

Diamond stylus can be used for teens of years it's really hard.

If you mean stylus from old mech. gramophone, you should change it often, after one or two replays.

Diamond stylus won't damage vinyl record.
Yes, vinyl is soft, but weight of the arm is too small to make any serious damages.

carlsson
August 25th, 2006, 09:08 AM
16 (3/4) rpm originated from Germany and was mostly used for voice recordings: books, political speeches and alike. I see from current eBay auctions that a bit of jazz music was recorded on these too, probably as some sort of long playing lo-fi? In 1956 there was an in-car turntable which played 7", 16 2/3 rpm records. Maybe those jazz records were meant for such turntables.

In the very early days (before 1925), the rotation speed was not defined, so each record company used their own, anywhere from 65 to 90 rpm, or all the way to 100 rpm. Some companies recorded at 76 rpm, some at 80 rpm. Therefore if you are an audiophile with really old records, you want a turntable with adjustable rotation speed in those intervals.

According to Wikipedia, the exact speed would be 78.26 rpm for a motor running at 3600 rpm and a 46:1 gear ratio. In parts of the world with 50 Hz current, it rotated at 77.92 rpm.

bbcmicro
August 25th, 2006, 09:19 AM
My record player is a B&O beocenter 2002. I have no idea what the stylus is made of, or when it was last replaced which makes me think a change would be a good idea. There is a small red mark on the top of the stylus near the tip if that helps.

Is there no way of knowing you need a replacement until one of your records is ruined?



Plus there is the problem of the vinyl getting softer when you play it
I didn't know that!

Luke
August 25th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I don't really know how often you should replace the stylus.
You'r is made of diamond.
Metal stylus was for old mechanic gramophones.

By the way... 'neddle' is 'stylus' in English?
And why gramophone is turntable? :p

chuckcmagee
August 25th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I was worried about mine because it got bent. I am clueless as to how often a stylus should be changed. As pointed out above, modern ones are diamond, which should be good for long long time.

80sFreak
August 25th, 2006, 09:32 AM
The laser turntable (http://www.elpj.com/)! My parents have a turntable (although they don't use it!) that is supposed to be able to play records *vertically*.

Cheers,

80sFreak

P.S. And I was very pissed when I found out they got rid of all their records a few years ago, including my Pac-Man Fever album! :(

Luke
August 25th, 2006, 09:40 AM
Expensive as hell... but very useful, no damage to discs!

Vetrically..?
Edison used that system... and Pathe brothers.
It's modern one?

carlsson
August 25th, 2006, 09:42 AM
A Swedish reseller gives the following advice on their page how to determine when you need to change the stylus:

Use a strong magnifying glas, 20-30X or even better a microscope up to 200X. The stylus edge should be even and round. When it gets worn, it gets square with distinguished levels. Another common fault is the cantilever that the stylus is attached to is bent or damaged. You can see that with your own eyes. You can't straighten a bent cantilever, so you need to replace the whole stylus. Sometimes stylus edge is glued to the cantilever and has gone missing completely. You can also identify this with your own eyes. Finally, the cantilever is attached with a rubber, which might have dried or become damaged.

So, if you can't identify some physical damage, get a good magnifying glass or microscope and check the edge of the stylus.

http://www.svalander.se/tips/faqvinyltips.htm#sliten

bbcmicro
August 25th, 2006, 09:48 AM
I just worry about dropping the damn things. Literaly like trying to find a needle in a haystack, well, carpet anyway. I have to keep really good care of these records most o the time because we have a fairly old house who's previous occupant was an old man who didn't do much cleaning. It's just naturally dusty. I dust my room so much my arm feels like its going to fall off. Next day there's a thin coating just waitin to be cleaned.

I think in context with turntables, needle and stylus are interchangeable. As for that laser turntable, it's pretty cool. Like a combination of CD and LP technology. I think that a lot of people would opt for transfer to PC or CD faced with that price, but I can understand wanting to keep the entire ritual of playing a record.

alexkerhead
August 25th, 2006, 11:26 AM
A stylus is cheap(10 bucks-40 bucks for descent ones)
I have a $220 Cartridge(holds the stylus) on my pioneer with a $90 stylus.
It is a 2 gram arm(even great TTs have to use 3 grams), but mine is tuned very well.

I had a set of 901s once, but I thought the lack of bass and high end was aweful, I like my 301 series 2s I still have though, i use them on my puter..lol

BTW, I just baught a Marantz 2270 today..hehe, it'll be in next week.
I will use the 2265B for one set of my L100s and the 2270 for the other set, and my 2220B for my Advents.

Here are L100s. Not my pic, but I have the same speakers, 4x of them.
http://intercomm.com/blb/JBL_L100_pair_no_grills_tops(2).jpg

Perhaps one of the best rounded, accurate louadpseakers ever built.
Cool thing is too, built in sunny california.

And here is a set of Advents. Not my pic, but I have the same speakers.
http://fisherdoctor.com/pictures/other/Speakers/advent1.jpg

I use them for the back of the room, so I have a 360 degree sound range.

I hate, I mean hate modern surround systems, they sound muddy and loose..

Here are the 2265b and 2220B of mine. These are mine.
I'll get pics of the speakers later.
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=115&d=1156534058

atari2600a
August 25th, 2006, 03:49 PM
So...on the topic of vinyl, does anyone here know how much a replica mechanical gramophone (w/ a horn & a crank handle & whatnot) costs these days?

(Just want to know, because I think it'd be AWESOME to get one, & maybe modify it to play 33RPM records. (I have alot of hip-hop albums, including Danger Doom)) (Remember the key word "replica")

80sFreak
August 25th, 2006, 03:51 PM
Vetrically..?
Edison used that system... and Pathe brothers.
It's modern one?

I don't think so... I know my dad has had it since time pretty much began for me.. ;) I *believe* the manufacturer was Dual.

Cheers,

80sFreak

P.S. FYI, I have never tried to play a record on it vertical... It is just what I have been told by my dad!

Mad-Mike
August 25th, 2006, 10:50 PM
My Turntable is an old 1985ish Panasonic SG-D16. It has a "Quartz AM/FM" tuner, a 5 band EQ, and a dual cassette deck, and amazingly, I can still get new Needles for it at $20.00 a pop, they're the cheapish looking red plastic jobbies that snap on easily to the tone arm. It does the job, I'm happy with it, and heck, for a stereo that old, it has a CD input on it, so I'm one piece from a full stereo.

Luke
August 26th, 2006, 01:50 AM
Atari, you can buy rpelica for ~70$, normally noone is buying them.

This is photo of my another gramophone ;):

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5065/gramo2hc.jpg

It's portable verion of big tube gramophone.

bbcmicro
August 26th, 2006, 03:56 AM
My auntie used to have an old 78 player that looked like a pale blue leather suitcase...until you open it! :crazy:

Luke
August 26th, 2006, 04:21 AM
If you can grab it!
I guess it was from 50s.

bbcmicro
August 26th, 2006, 05:08 AM
It got chucked out when she moved ot Ireland :(
I think she managed to break it whilst moving, but she was moving to a smaller house and I think she was going to sell it anyway.

They're not particularly rare, are they?

USSEnterprise
August 26th, 2006, 07:50 AM
I've got an older Technics Belt Drive table from the mid 80's. Cart/needles are $10. Listen to my parent's old Queen albums, and my Father's old George Carlin records.

Luke
August 26th, 2006, 09:06 AM
No, there is plenty of 'em, but they usualy go for 10-100$.
It depends on shape.

Rarer are those with tubes and Edison's phonograps.

alexkerhead
August 26th, 2006, 06:41 PM
I've got an older Technics Belt Drive table from the mid 80's. Cart/needles are $10. Listen to my parent's old Queen albums, and my Father's old George Carlin records.

If you use a $10 cart and stylus, the sound will blow.
I use a DLE stylus on a audiotechnika cart.
Combo was expensive, but well worth it. No CD I have can touch the dynamics of my vinyls.

USSEnterprise
August 26th, 2006, 06:50 PM
The sound is actually quite good

alexkerhead
August 26th, 2006, 08:40 PM
The sound is actually quite good

I am sure you think the bose wave radio is good to.:biggrin:

USSEnterprise
August 26th, 2006, 09:26 PM
I know what good audio is. The sound is good with the $10 stylus. The cartridge is the original technics it turns out. It sounds good on my technics reciever and on my pioneer reciever.

alexkerhead
August 26th, 2006, 09:32 PM
I know what good audio is. The sound is good with the $10 stylus. The cartridge is the original technics it turns out. It sounds good on my technics reciever and on my pioneer reciever.

I am sure if you had a chance to hear the real thing, you'd switch your stance.;)

USSEnterprise
August 26th, 2006, 09:41 PM
I guess I'll have to take your word for it, since I'm saving for a car and don't have the $ to spend on a better setup. The table itself is fine. The whole technics system cost my parents around a grand back in '87

alexkerhead
August 26th, 2006, 09:47 PM
I guess I'll have to take your word for it, since I'm saving for a car and don't have the $ to spend on a better setup. The table itself is fine. The whole technics system cost my parents around a grand back in '87

oh, late 80s? :(

I thought you had a real vintage setup for a second.


This is the best reciever for the money ever built. And they are nicely priced.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Marantz-2220-AM-FM-Stereo-Reciever_W0QQitemZ170022060234QQihZ007QQcategoryZ9 4898QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And this is a great TT for the money.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-PL-115D-Turntable-NICE_W0QQitemZ180021386272QQihZ008QQcategoryZ64625 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Check out what I have coming in.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250022331331&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

It will power my second set of L100s...bwuhahaha
That marantz 2270 usually pulls $250+, but some knuckle head put it on BIN for $150.

USSEnterprise
August 26th, 2006, 09:52 PM
I have three recievers right now. A late 80's Technics, an early 90's Pioneer, and an early 90's Onkyo that tgunner gave me, and will keep if he gets his Model 80. Used to have an old Fisher all-in-one system, but the turntable and casette deck were shot, and it was only a 30 watt amp.

alexkerhead
August 26th, 2006, 10:05 PM
I have three recievers right now. A late 80's Technics, an early 90's Pioneer, and an early 90's Onkyo that tgunner gave me, and will keep if he gets his Model 80. Used to have an old Fisher all-in-one system, but the turntable and casette deck were shot, and it was only a 30 watt amp.
You'll learn that it isn't the watts, it is the clarity.
I have a Pioneer sx-9 120wpc(1988 - junk) reciever setting in my closet. If wattage matters, I wouldn't be using something with 65wpc would I?

That fisher all in one was probably 8wpc anyway. Remember that the watts rating on the back doesn't represent the wattage to the speakers.
My 2265B says it uses 400 watts, but only 65 watts get to each of two speakers.

I remember when I was into the 80s equip. I kept telling my dad my panasonic garbage speakers sounded as good as his L-65s, and my digital JVC reciever with 100wpc was better than his pioneer sx-1250.
When he finally played his setup for me, I realised I had been very, very, very wrong.
I sold all my 80s/90s digital crap and baught a single sx-950 and saved for a set of l-36 decades. That was my first real audio setup.
I am not dissing your digital stuff, but you need to hear the real deal before you say you know what good sound is, because that "good sound" you have will sound mighty strange and muddy if you get to hear the real deal.

It is like saying a Pentium 1 system surfs the net really good, and then upgrading to a dual core conroe with 4GB RAM. You won't want to go back.