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offensive_Jerk
March 27th, 2014, 05:36 AM
I will be recieving a IBM AT 5170 that has an error message of:


02432KB OK
2C0004 0004 201 -MEMORY ERROR
-PARITY CHECK 2

I don't know the exact configuration of the machine, but by judging by the POST test it must have a 2MB RAM expansion card. I followed the IBM HMS diagnostic maps and from the limited information I have on hand until the machine arrives, it looks like the most likely fix would be to replace Bank 2, module 2.

I just am confused about the Parity Check 2 part of the error. I read that error will appear if the faulty ram is on a RAM expansion card. Are those two error codes related, and the parity check 2 error will go away after the ram is replaced? Or is it another error?

Also, I would like advise where/what module to buy to replace the faulty one, or do I need to wait until I get the machine?

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Stone
March 27th, 2014, 05:43 AM
How can you replace something that you haven't yet seen and don't really know what it is? :-) Do you know if it's a 64K chip or a 256K chip?

offensive_Jerk
March 27th, 2014, 07:39 AM
How can you replace something that you haven't yet seen and don't really know what it is? :-) Do you know if it's a 64K chip or a 256K chip?

I was just wondering in advance for things to check for. If it would be memory and it's cheap I could order it before hand and have it ready when it comes.
I don't know a whole lot about the 5170, so I was basically asking you guys since this forum collectively has a great amount of knowledge. Perhaps it was a widely known problem or something. But, yes, that was wishful thinking and I'm looking forward to getting the computer.

It would be a smarter idea to wait until it arrives and I know for sure what I have. I was just hoping for any input.

Stone
March 27th, 2014, 08:32 AM
Since it's not on the motherboard (the bad chip) and you don't know what card is being used to supply expansion RAM it's impossible to know the answer to what you have requested. That should be immediately obvious. :-)

offensive_Jerk
March 27th, 2014, 09:23 AM
Well since the POST screen said "02432 KB OK" I was assuming the IBM 2MB RAM expansion card was installed. But, you are correct, I don't know for sure. I was being presumptuous.

Anyway, I'll post an update once I get it in a few days.

Stone
March 27th, 2014, 09:57 AM
Why assume that when it could be any one of several other brands? You know what happens when you ASSume anything, don't you? :-)

krebizfan
March 27th, 2014, 10:05 AM
Picking up cheap working spare RAM chips just seems prudent. You might not need it in this case but someday you will.

offensive_Jerk
March 27th, 2014, 11:37 AM
Are the RAM types vastly different between cards?

Stone
March 27th, 2014, 11:43 AM
A single card can use more than one type of chip, normally 64K and 256K.

offensive_Jerk
March 27th, 2014, 11:51 AM
Ah, good to know.

krebizfan
March 27th, 2014, 12:05 PM
AT memory expansion cards used variously 64kb, 256kb, or 1Mb chips with some doing the tricky 3 chip mix* and very late memory expansion cards had switched over to using SIMMs. (Mine took 256KB and 1 MB SIMMS) Wait for the card to show up and all questions would be answered. I doubt a 2 MB card has 64kb chips on it; the typical 72 socket setup with all 256kb chips takes a full length board as it is.

* That is using 2 1Mb chips plus one 256kB chip instead of 9 256kb chips for 256kB with parity.

modem7
March 27th, 2014, 08:50 PM
Lots of IBM 5170 information at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/index.htm
* POST error information is in the 'IBM 5170 - Some On-Screen POST Errors' link.
* RAM information is in the 'IBM 5170 - RAM Information' link.


2C0004 0004 201 -MEMORY ERROR
"2C0004 0004 201" equates to bit 2 at the 2.75 MB address mark.


I just am confused about the Parity Check 2 part of the error. I read that error will appear if the faulty ram is on a RAM expansion card. Are those two error codes related, and the parity check 2 error will go away after the ram is replaced? Or is it another error?
They are related. The 'PARITY CHECK 2' error should disappear after you rectify the 201 error (well, unless there are multiple RAM issues).


... it looks like the most likely fix would be to replace Bank 2, module 2.
As others have written, you do not have enough information yet to determine the faulty chip (or possibly, module).
Once you have the 5170, and thus can see what RAM is fitted on the motherboard, and how the RAM cards are configured, you should then be able to determine what RAM is where (e.g. look at the diagram [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/5170_example_ram_layout.jpg)]).

offensive_Jerk
March 28th, 2014, 02:12 AM
They are related. The 'PARITY CHECK 2' error should disappear after you rectify the 201 error (well, unless there are multiple RAM issues).



Thanks, this was my main question right now. I was curious if it was possible that the first issue disappears after the 201 error is resolved.

offensive_Jerk
April 1st, 2014, 05:24 PM
OK Guys, it came today and I opened it up.
Appears it does have a 386 card. I took out the memory card. What do you guys think? The card says Intel on it. Not sure what model.

Here's a direct link to larger resolution
https://www.flickr.com/photos/11812307@N03/13571665333


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Stone
April 1st, 2014, 06:04 PM
Appears it does have a 386 card.OK, I'll bite. What's a 386 card?

SpidersWeb
April 1st, 2014, 07:29 PM
OK, I'll bite. What's a 386 card?

Expansion card that converts it in to a 386. Looks like the original CPU is goneburgers too? Replaced with a ribbon cable.

offensive_Jerk
April 1st, 2014, 07:35 PM
Yeah an expansion card that has a 386 and a ribbon cable plugs into the CPU socket. Intel Inboard 386 they call it.
I think I would like to put the 286 back in.
But first:

Anyone help on the memory error?

modem7
April 1st, 2014, 11:45 PM
Anyone help on the memory error?
Your motherboard is of the type that has a single bank of 512 KB. We know that the bad RAM chip is not in that (it is at the 2.75 MB address mark).

The unknown card in slot #2 has RAM. It needs to be identified. Your 'larger resolution' link does not work. The card looks very close to a photo I have of an Intel Above Board AT. Do you see "Above Board" printed on it?

The "386" card will be providing RAM as well. Do you know for fact that it is an Intel Inboard 386 ?

Once the cards providing RAM are accurately identified, then their technical documentation is referred to in order to find out how much RAM each in providing, and where that RAM sits in the 5170's address space. And it will also lead to which RAM chip is the problem one.

One thing you can quickly try is to reseat all socketed RAM chips on both cards, in the hope that the problem cause is simply a dirty connection. Of course, observe static precautions.

offensive_Jerk
April 2nd, 2014, 01:00 AM
I only see Intel on the memory board. No other writing. I will upload here.

I suspect it's an inboard Intel 386 card because of the sticker on the case, and the card here. I didn't remove the 386 card yet, don't wanna mess it up.

Maybe this link here (https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3667/13571665333_142647941f_o.jpg) will work right for the higher res photo of memory card.

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offensive_Jerk
April 2nd, 2014, 01:06 AM
Here's close up of the chips on the ram card
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modem7
April 2nd, 2014, 01:53 AM
I only see Intel on the memory board. No other writing. I will upload here.
It turns out that I was looking at a photo of an INTEL ABOVE BOARD AT (it has "ABOVE BOARD AT" printed on it). I subsequently found a photo that exactly matches with what you have. That photo is simply described as "Intel above board", and so I do not know whether you have the original Intel Above Board, or some variation of it. Maybe someone reading this who knows will comment.


I suspect it's an inboard Intel 386 card because of the sticker on the case, and the card here.
Sounds convincing. I am unfamiliar with the card. You may need to run the software that was supplied with the card in order to see the RAM configuration. Maybe someone reading this who knows will comment.

offensive_Jerk
April 2nd, 2014, 01:59 AM
Sounds convincing. I am unfamiliar with the card. You may need to run the software that was supplied with the card in order to see the RAM configuration. Maybe someone reading this who knows will comment.

Not sure if that will be possible, as I am unsure of the hard drive's condition. Not sure if it works and just needs to be configured in Bios or what. I need to run the setup disk.

When I tried to boot dos floppys, it would display garbage characters, so maybe the ram error is affecting that.

I should probably post a wanted ad for a 286 for this machine and get it running that way first.

offensive_Jerk
April 2nd, 2014, 05:42 AM
I took out the Intel Ram card and booted and I got no memory errors, and made no other adjustments. So it's something with that card.

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offensive_Jerk
April 2nd, 2014, 06:53 AM
I'm using the guide on how to run setup using basic in minuszero but I ran out of time.

Is it possible that this error is happening due to miscondiguration due to battery loss? Or does the ram count too high for it to be that. On the basic commands I used it told me my base memory is 512, yet when I run the command to find expanded memory it says 0 with the ram card out, but post still counts to 1536 and doesn't error with the 386 inboard card in and without the intel ram card.

offensive_Jerk
April 2nd, 2014, 06:24 PM
I got it booting from a floppy and can access the HDD now. But I still need to figure out how to fix that expansion ram card.

modem7
April 3rd, 2014, 01:42 AM
Is it possible that this error is happening due to miscondiguration due to battery loss?
The "0004 in "2C0004 0004" indicates a single bit in error. With a misconfiuration that results in the 5170 reading non-existing RAM, you would see many bits in error. So my answer is no.


... yet when I run the command to find expanded memory ...
Expansion memory, not expanded memory. 'Expansion' is IBM's early term for RAM past 1 MB, and then later, that became known as 'extended'.

That BASIC command, by the way, is showing what the POST found at power on time.


yet when I run the command to find expanded memory it says 0 with the ram card out, but post still counts to 1536 and doesn't error with the 386 inboard card in and without the intel ram card.
Your "counts to 1536" suggests that the Inboard 386 card is supplying 1 MB of extended RAM (512K on motherboard + 1024K on card = 1536K).

But the result of 0 for the BASIC command that shows expansion (extended) RAM does not make sense in consideration of the expansion (extended) RAM on the Inboard 386 card. Are you sure that you typed in the command correctly?


I got it booting from a floppy and can access the HDD now. But I still need to figure out how to fix that expansion ram card.
We will get there, but first, we need to be certain of the situation presently (without the Above Board inserted).

I suspect that the Inboard 386 card (presently fitted) is supplying 1 MB of RAM between the 1 MB and 2 MB addresses.
Is it true that you no longer see on-screen error codes?
And is it also true that when you performed SETUP, you used a figure of 1024 KB for 'expansion' RAM ?

offensive_Jerk
April 3rd, 2014, 04:22 AM
I was able to run the IBM advanced Diagnostics disk now. I am now able to run the setup program. I specified 0 for expansion ram, since I wasn't sure how much memory or what I should enter for that part. When I run setup now, it does give me a "164 -MEMORY size error" now. I will try to enter setup again and put 1024 in for expansion Ram and hopfully that will clear that error.

My ultimate goal is to revert this back to stock as possible and remove the 386 card, and get the other Intel memory board working. Modem7, do you know which 286 variant this would have came with?

I backed up what I could from the HDD. there was a folder called 'AST' (there are no AST cards I know of) and another folder called MISC with what I believe to be the drivers/files for the inboard 386 card. Modem7, let me know if you want those files for your site. minuszerodegrees has been super helpful to me so far.

There's a manual for the inboard 386 here, but it doesn't show the 5170 installation.

http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/intel/datasheet/Intel%20Inboard%20386%20Manual.pdf

offensive_Jerk
April 3rd, 2014, 05:04 AM
Apparently there was in Intel Inboard 386/PC and an Intel Inboard 386/PC

Stone
April 3rd, 2014, 05:45 AM
Apparently there was in Intel Inboard 386/PC and an Intel Inboard 386/PCTranslation please. :-) :-)

offensive_Jerk
April 3rd, 2014, 06:37 AM
Translation please. :-) :-)

Whoops, I meant Intel Inboard 386/PC (for PC XT's) and a different model, a Inboard 386/AT (for AT machines.)

Anyway, The only marking I found on the card is 107037 Rev B. I google that and it does bring up results for Intel Above Board cards like the ebay link below. Now to find a manual. I need to get that other RAM card working sometime so I can revert back to 286.

And I also should note, that I set the expansion ram to 1024 and it boots without errors now.
At first the HDD was not detected, but it would try to boot after I used basic to run Setup. Then it was giving errors, so I left it turned on for a while, rebooted with a DOS disk and the HDD was accessible. I did a LLF on the HDD since it was having issues and installed IBM DOS 3. The battery is shot, so I will probably have to run setup when I turn it on again, but it's nice that I can get it to boot without errors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/360875534056?lpid=82

Hopefully this link works to my flickr set of the card.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11812307@N03/sets/72157643355118265/

modem7
April 3rd, 2014, 08:11 PM
My ultimate goal is to revert this back to stock as possible and remove the 386 card, and get the other Intel memory board working. Modem7, do you know which 286 variant this would have came with?
It depends on the motherboard type: 1, 2 or 3. From what little that I can see of the motherboard in your photos, yours is either of type 2 or 3.
You should be able to determine which from the information that is [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/motherboard/5170_motherboard_revisions.htm)].

A type 2 uses a 6 MHz 80286, and a type 3 uses an 8 MHz 80286.

There is a photo of the 8 MHz CPU in my type 3 at [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/motherboard/5170_type_3_mb_cpu.jpg)].

modem7
April 3rd, 2014, 08:19 PM
And I also should note, that I set the expansion ram to 1024 and it boots without errors now.
That is what I thought. So, the memory map of your 5170 presently looks like [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/sgh47dkf4s830h.jpg)].

modem7
April 3rd, 2014, 09:31 PM
The Above Board card will have 4 banks of RAM, where each bank is 18 chips (16 data + 2 parity). The photo of the Above Board on eBay that you linked to has only one bank populated, and thus suggests (repeat: suggests) that the banks run from center to outer.

The banks on this card can be different sizes, and is determined by looking at the chip type used in a bank.

Bank 0 = 16 data chips of 64 Kbit = 1024 Kbit = 128 KB
Bank 1 = 16 data chips of 256 Kbit = 4096 Kbit = 512 KB
Bank 2 = 16 data chips of 256 Kbit = 4096 Kbit = 512 KB
Bank 3 = 16 data chips of 256 Kbit = 4096 Kbit = 512 KB

So, when you add the card to your 5170, I expect that the memory map will become what is [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/jd835htrs48rehgyew.jpg)].

That assumes that the card's starting address has been correctly set to the 2 MB address. But maybe someone got it wrong. It would be good to see the card's documentation in order to establish that, and the other assumption:
* Card configured to start at the 2 MB address
* Banks run from center to outer

offensive_Jerk
April 4th, 2014, 02:28 AM
It depends on the motherboard type: 1, 2 or 3. From what little that I can see of the motherboard in your photos, yours is either of type 2 or 3.
You should be able to determine which from the information that is [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/motherboard/5170_motherboard_revisions.htm)].

A type 2 uses a 6 MHz 80286, and a type 3 uses an 8 MHz 80286.

There is a photo of the 8 MHz CPU in my type 3 at [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/motherboard/5170_type_3_mb_cpu.jpg)].

Thanks, Mine is a type 3 then, since it has a 16mhz crystal. Manufactured in 1986 per the speaker ribbon.
I finally got the courage to pull the ribbon plug connector in the 386 socket. I'll take some pics. I basically stripped the system down and cleaning it now.

offensive_Jerk
April 5th, 2014, 12:24 AM
I found it referenced on Intel's archived site on Wayback machine, but sadly the downloads don't work.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000903185625/http://www.intel.com/support/aboveboards/ABOVE.HTM#readme_ABOVE.EXE

EDIT: Wouldn't you know it, intel still has the software for it (above.exe) to download!

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?ProductID=158&DwnldID=1242&lang=eng&iid=dc_rss

offensive_Jerk
April 5th, 2014, 06:48 AM
Crap. I took it all apart to clean out the case and now she won't boot. No video, no beeps. Just the power LED. I hear the HDD spin up but that's it... The power cables are plugged into the mobo with blacks together and I put the cards in the same slots. Even reseated them. What did I do??

modem7
April 5th, 2014, 02:12 PM
Crap. I took it all apart to clean out the case and now she won't boot. No video, no beeps. Just the power LED. I hear the HDD spin up but that's it... The power cables are plugged into the mobo with blacks together and I put the cards in the same slots. Even reseated them. What did I do??
Does the PSU/motherboard/videocard combination work outside of the case?

offensive_Jerk
April 5th, 2014, 03:04 PM
Does the PSU/motherboard/videocard combination work outside of the case?

I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?

modem7
April 5th, 2014, 03:12 PM
I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?
You have reasembled the computer. If you take out the PSU, motherboard, and video card, and then power those up together, say on the kitchen table, does the motherboard power up then?
If it does, then I think you must have shorted something out to the case when you reassembled the computer.
If not, then we go down a different path.

offensive_Jerk
April 5th, 2014, 03:22 PM
You have reasembled the computer. If you take out the PSU, motherboard, and video card, and then power those up together, say on the kitchen table, does the motherboard power up then?
If it does, then I think you must have shorted something out to the case when you reassembled the computer.
If not, then we go down a different path.

Thank you for clarifying. I thought that's what you meant but wasn't sure. I'll give it a try

offensive_Jerk
April 5th, 2014, 05:45 PM
OK, I got it booting again by reseating the 386 header in the 286 socket.

Modem7, would it be possible to find out which ram is bad in the above board if I move chips around?

modem7
April 5th, 2014, 06:58 PM
Modem7, would it be possible to find out which ram is bad in the above board if I move chips around?
Yes. When you see the 201 error change, you will know that the faulty chip is in the last set of chips that you exchanged. Of course, use static precautions.

I am expecting (although, based on certain assumptions) that the faulty chip is in the third bank (bank 2, assuming that bank numbering starts at 0). See [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/jd835htrs48rehgyew.jpg)].

offensive_Jerk
April 5th, 2014, 09:21 PM
Yes. When you see the 201 error change, you will know that the faulty chip is in the last set of chips that you exchanged. Of course, use static precautions.

I am expecting (although, based on certain assumptions) that the faulty chip is in the third bank (bank 2, assuming that bank numbering starts at 0). See [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/jd835htrs48rehgyew.jpg)].

Hey Modem7, I finally added the drivers for the 386 inboard card, and the memory drivers. Does this picture mean anything to you as far as addressing? This is for the Inboard 386/AT though, the AboveBoard is still not installed.

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modem7
April 5th, 2014, 10:14 PM
Hey Modem7, I finally added the drivers for the 386 inboard card, and the memory drivers. Does this picture mean anything to you as far as addressing? This is for the Inboard 386/AT though, the AboveBoard is still not installed.
By my reading of what ILIM386 is showing you, what has happened is that the 1 MB pool of RAM on the InBoard 386 card has now been split up per:

* 4 KB for "ROM mapping region" (whatever that is).
* 56 KB for "Program storage", possibly a place where some of the driver code has been stored.
* 832 KB of expanded memory (EMS).
* 4 KB of extended memory.
* 128 KB placed between addresses 512 KB and 640 KB. This is a good thing; total base memory of 640 KB.

So previously, the 1 MB pool of RAM was providing 1 MB of extended memory (between addresses 1 MB and 2 MB). Now that pool is being used for a 'bunch of things'.

Are you now seeing a 164 error at power-up? (memory size error)

offensive_Jerk
April 5th, 2014, 11:18 PM
No, no memory error. Still working OK, I just finally loaded the drivers. I was just wondering if that told you anything about how Intel does their bank numbering. Of course the Above Board will be different. I will install that later and see if the other driver says anything.
If not, I will move the chips like you said.

modem7
April 5th, 2014, 11:44 PM
No, no memory error. Still working OK, I just finally loaded the drivers.
So that implies to me that at power on of the computer, the 1 MB of RAM on the InBoard 386 appears as 1 MB of extended memory (addressed between 1 MB and 2 MB). The POST sees 512 KB of base memory, and the InBoard 386's 1 MB of extended memory. Then as soon as DOS boots and the card's driver loaded, the 1 MB gets 'carved up' as specified.


I was just wondering if that told you anything about how Intel does their bank numbering.
No, but one of the programs supplied may be a RAM tester specifically for the InBoard 386. From what I remember, the program may draw up a crude bank diagram on-screen, highlighting any faulty RAM chip/s.


Of course the Above Board will be different.
It too may have been supplied with a similar program, specific to the Above Board.

offensive_Jerk
April 6th, 2014, 05:51 PM
So I put the above board back in.
Again, the POST says 02432 KB OK, 2C0004 0004 201 -MEMORY ERROR, -PARITY CHECK 2
I tried messing with the setup config for memory but was getting memory mismatch errors. When I boot to dos, I get a message that a stack fault occured at 060E:D20C.

What should I set the base memory in setup to? By base memory, do they mean the amount of memory on the motherboard (512)? Or, do they mean convential DOS memory and should I enter 640K?

And then what should I enter for expansion memory? 2048? The default that setup wanted to input was 1792KB but that didn't seem like it would be a valid config.

SpidersWeb
April 6th, 2014, 06:26 PM
Base memory = conventional memory - so if your card is providing 128KB conventional then you need to enter 640KB.

1792 is 2048 - 256 - if one bank (256KB worth) is being used to help fill conventional memory that could be correct. I haven't used an AboveBoard, but the AT boards I've used generally wont split a bank half/half between extended and conventional.

Edit: although I just relaised the Intel Inboard386 might interfere with all that, I'm not terribly sure what you should do.

offensive_Jerk
April 6th, 2014, 07:45 PM
It gave the memory mismatch error with the 640 base and 1792 ex memory

modem7
April 7th, 2014, 02:23 AM
This all can get confusing, particularly with RAM being supplied from multiple sources.
One thing you need to get down pat is the definitions:

Conventional (IBM's early term is 'base'):
The amount of RAM fitted between addresses 0 and 640 KB. Can come from multiple sources. In my main IBM 5170, the motherboard supplies from 0 to 512 KB, and I have a dedicated RAM card that supplies 128 KB between addresses 512 KB and 640 KB. So I have 640 KB of conventional memory.

Extended (IBM's early term is 'expansion'):
RAM past the 1 MB address. In the diagram [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/5170_example_ram_layout.jpg)] (not your InBoard by the way), there is 4 MB of extended memory. If you have multiple cards providing extended memory, there must be no gaps between that memory. Where one card finishes supplying extended memory, you configure another card to start its extended memory at that address.

Expanded memory:
Defined on WikiPedia. Not the same as 'expansion'. An important point for you is that the 5170's SETUP does not care about expanded memory. You do not need to enter that figure.


Unfortunately, Intel are confusing the matter. The 1 MB of RAM on the InBoard 386 card is a 'pool' of RAM, available to be configured for various purposes. So, Intel should ideally be using the word 'pool' or something similar, but in the display put out by ILIM386, Intel has used "extended memory".


5170 SETUP

The base (conventional) and expansion (extended) figures that you put into the 5170's SETUP are to represent the amounts of base and expansion memory that the 5170's power on self test (POST) sees at power up time, before any software has loaded.


I have things to do now. I recommend that you remove the Above Board and get back to a working memory configuration using only the InBoard 386. From behaviour that you have described earlier, at power on, the 1 MB pool of RAM on the InBoard 386 card appears as 1 MB of extended memory only. Only later when the driver loads is the pool 'carved up' for other purposes. It would be really good if someone else can confirm that, because the behaviour differs to what I remember of some other Intel cards.

If it is the case that the 'carving up' happens after the driver is loaded, then what would go in the 5170's SETUP would be:
Base = 512 KB
Extended = 1024 KB
That would represent what the 5170's POST sees at power on.

offensive_Jerk
May 18th, 2014, 06:20 AM
So I removed the Intel Inboard 386 card (and the memory that's on it) and installed the plain 286-8mhz chip that I purchased. On boot, the computer counts 512k as expected since that's all that you can install on the motherboard. I set the bios back to 512KB onboard base ram to test.
It was booting fine.

I then went downstairs and grabbed the Intel Above board memory expansion card. Now the RAM only counts to 640 on POST. I went into setup and changed the base memory to 512, and extended memory to 128. Gave a memory mismatch error upon reboot.

Went back into setup and set the base memory to 640K and extended memory to 0, and it liked that setting. No more parity errors or memory mismatch errors.

The only question I have now is, that's ALL the memory that's on the aboveboard card??? Seems like there would be MUCH more considering how many chips are on it.

Stone
May 18th, 2014, 06:41 AM
The only question I have now is, that's ALL the memory that's on the aboveboard card??? Seems like there would be MUCH more considering how many chips are on it.Why are *you* asking us how much memory is on the card? You have the card, we don't. :-) How about if you count the memory chips and tell us what's actually on the card? Maybe then we can make some more progress.

offensive_Jerk
May 18th, 2014, 06:58 AM
I was getting around to posting additional pics of the card. I admit I know nothing about these old RAM chips like this. They all have different numbers and I can't find any documentation for this card.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5511/14026902117_fe6cd93f1f_k.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2906/14026825978_24fdbd1dfa_k.jpg

Stone
May 18th, 2014, 08:35 AM
Looks like 1.25MB RAM on the card.

mikey99
May 18th, 2014, 09:58 AM
Its normal that the system only displays 640K memory at post.

The card needs a driver , and after loading the driver the additional memory should be accessible.
Some drivers will count the additional memory when it loads and display this info on the screen.

offensive_Jerk
May 18th, 2014, 10:04 AM
OK, I'll try and get a driver. The other Intel card would show the memory on POST, so I figured this would too. I didn't know the driver needed to load.

Stone
May 18th, 2014, 10:21 AM
OK, I'll try and get a driver. The other Intel card would show the memory on POST, so I figured this would too. I didn't know the driver needed to load.Since any driver is only loaded *after* the POST I don't see how it could make a difference. Config.sys isn't read before the POST is completed.

offensive_Jerk
May 18th, 2014, 11:35 AM
With this intel above board card installed, post counts 640k.

With the intel inboard 386 card installed, post counts 1.5MB of RAM.

With no cards installed, post counts 512k of RAM.

offensive_Jerk
May 18th, 2014, 11:41 AM
So according to mikey99, the intel driver needs to load for the rest of the ram to be available. This would be after dos boots obviously. You say there is 1.25mb on the card yet.

Stone
May 18th, 2014, 02:19 PM
With the intel inboard 386 card installed, post counts 1.5MB of RAM.
If I were you I'd stick with this configuration and quit while you're ahead. :-)

offensive_Jerk
May 18th, 2014, 09:51 PM
I don't like having that 386 card in the machine. It takes up a slot, and it's a pain to remove since it plugs in the CPU socket. I want to just keep it a 286 machine.

modem7
May 19th, 2014, 03:03 AM
So according to mikey99, the intel driver needs to load for the rest of the ram to be available.
I guess the question is, does mikey99 have knowledge about this specific card, or was he making a comment based on what he has seen some other cards do?
If the latter, then unless someone comes forward with documentation on or knowledge about your card, then you need to experiment.

mikey99
May 19th, 2014, 06:03 AM
My comment was not based on this specific card but on other memory cards used in my PC/AT.
I wasn't aware that any of the expanded/extended memory cards counted the additional memory at boot time in a PC/AT.

I also have an INTEL Above PS AT board, but it looks somewhat different than your pictures. Mine also has serial/parallel
ports.

I have an Intel 386 board too, but I have never tested this one. I really need to dig out my PS/AT and test both of these cards !

offensive_Jerk
May 20th, 2014, 02:16 AM
Looks like 1.25MB RAM on the card.

For my own knowledge, may I ask how you came to that conclusion?

Stone
May 20th, 2014, 02:50 AM
After closer inspection it appears to have six banks of 256K chips plus two banks of 64K chips which would be 1.625 MB.

offensive_Jerk
May 20th, 2014, 05:44 AM
After closer inspection it appears to have six banks of 256K chips plus two banks of 64K chips which would be 1.625 MB.

OK, that makes more sense. I was able to find some data sheets for most of the chips and the numbers weren't adding up to your initial assessment.

mikey99
May 20th, 2014, 06:47 AM
I think the Above board I have is the same except it has a serial/parallel port and holds only 1.5MB.

I tried the Above board in my PC/AT yesterday, but found that the card had a short on the -12V line
preventing the PC from even powering on.....argh. While looking at the card last night I found a shorted
tantalum capacitor on the card which I removed..... I'll try this again later today. My card only has two
banks of 256K chips installed. I need to determine how to set the switches first.

offensive_Jerk
May 20th, 2014, 08:24 AM
I think the Above board I have is the same except it has a serial/parallel port and holds only 1.5MB.

I tried the Above board in my PC/AT yesterday, but found that the card had a short on the -12V line
preventing the PC from even powering on.....argh. While looking at the card last night I found a shorted
tantalum capacitor on the card which I removed..... I'll try this again later today. My card only has two
banks of 256K chips installed. I need to determine how to set the switches first.

Let me know if you find a manual.

I'm trying to use some Above Board drivers I found, but they are software configured and don't work with mine that has dip switches. Search continues.

offensive_Jerk
May 20th, 2014, 08:54 AM
I think the Above board I have is the same except it has a serial/parallel port and holds only 1.5MB.

I tried the Above board in my PC/AT yesterday, but found that the card had a short on the -12V line
preventing the PC from even powering on.....argh. While looking at the card last night I found a shorted
tantalum capacitor on the card which I removed..... I'll try this again later today. My card only has two
banks of 256K chips installed. I need to determine how to set the switches first.



Not sure if this is what you're having but I found this in another thread:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?41462-Intel-Above-Board-16-bit-card-in-8-bit-slot


He's probably referring to ABISA not detecting it.. He's testing the card that I bought from him (it's going in a Tandy 1000SX). He's going to try the on that I was looking at that implicitly mentions the PS/286 / Plus / Plus I/O, etc.. Apparently if you put in the shunt, when it's in 16bit mode, the machine won't even boot.. Weird.

offensive_Jerk
May 20th, 2014, 08:55 AM
I think the drivers I need is ABISA.EXE. Intel must have changed their site up and now they can't be downloaded.

Anyone have ABISA.exe?

mikey99
May 20th, 2014, 09:43 AM
I have ABISA.EXE, but its too large to upload to the forum. Send me a PM with your email id and I'll send it over.

mikey99
May 20th, 2014, 03:09 PM
After removing that shorted capacitor......&#&#$##
I was able to get my PC/AT with Above board to count up to 640K which means its
using 128K to backfill to 640K. I have 4 (out of 6 banks) populated with
256K chips. Any values I enter in the PC/AT configuration for extra memory
gives a memory error at boot. I'm thinking 512K is the correct value to use for
extra memory in the configuration problem. I'm planning to replace the bad capacitor
....it might actually be needed in the circuit......maybe thats causing a problem.

ALSO, I noticed on my Above board, the left switch block has all the switches set to OFF.

Wheras yours has them set to a different value: 1000 1011

EDIT: I think the switch settings may be causing the problem on my card. SW1 (left switch)
needs to be set for the correct amount of memory.

offensive_Jerk
May 20th, 2014, 10:09 PM
I tried ABISA.exe and that does not recognize my card either. Not sure if there are some dip switch settings that are moving the memory address around since they had this card and the Intel Inboard 386/AT card installed which also has memory onboard.

Do your drivers detect the card?

mikey99
May 21st, 2014, 12:11 PM
I ran the ABISA.EXE to extract the drivers. I then ran the hwsetup.exe and it displays a message saying
An Intel Above board was not found in the system. So I guess this isn't the correct driver. I also tried
the ABOVE.EXE, extracted the drivers but these are for a newer card without switches.

I still cant get my card to do anything other than backfill to 640K.

I was looking at the switch settings again, and now I see that SW1 (left switch) determines the setting for
expanded or extended memory. My card has all switches off, which means use expanded memory.
Yours has 1000 1011 , which indicates the amount of extended memory.

I found the following table on a website, but your switch settings don't match any of these.
Did you set those based on some other documentation ?

EXTENDED MEMORY CONFIGURATION

Size SW1/1 SW1/2 SW1/3 SW1/4 SW1/5 SW1/6 SW1/7 SW1/8

None Off Off Off Off Off Off Off Off

1MB N/A N/A N/A N/A On On Off On

1.5MB On On Off Off On On Off Off

2MB On Off On On On Off On On

offensive_Jerk
May 21st, 2014, 12:55 PM
I am in the exact same boat as you with the driver issues.

As for the switches, I didn't touch them. That's how they came.

mikey99
May 21st, 2014, 01:25 PM
I found another set of drivers here :
http://timeguy.com/cradek/at

18765

Run the setupAT.exe program to configure the memory.
One problem is, it only works with DOS 3.0 or 3.1 !
So maybe there's a newer version around somewhere that will
work with DOS 3.3.

But at least it does recognize my card, and with 128K used to backfill
it says I have 896K expanded memory ! The expanded memory is NOT counted
at boot time, it only counts to 640K.

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 03:31 AM
Thanks for those drivers, Mikey99. Seems I'm finally making some progress. I'm running DOS 6.22 and so far I can run the TESTABAT.EXE file but I get stuck since it detects a bad RAM chip.

I'm going to try to remove a chip from my Inboard 386/AT. I need to look up that chip and make sure it's spec'ed the same.

RAM from Inboard 386:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5593/14057272360_456e1a5d26_b.jpg

Bad RAM detected:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5524/14241662042_e7cfd8e6c1.jpg

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 04:31 AM
I swapped a chip and I'm not getting the memory error anymore.

But now when I run the SETUPAT.EXE it says that your computer is not completely compatible with the IBM AT. Funny, since it IS an IBM AT. Maybe the switches are out of wack or something.

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 06:43 AM
I set the first switch bank all to OFF and it's still saying it's not compatible... I don't get it.

Stone
May 22nd, 2014, 07:10 AM
But now when I run the SETUPAT.EXE it says that your computer is not completely compatible with the IBM AT. Funny, since it IS an IBM AT. Maybe the switches are out of wack or something.It's got nothing to do with switches on the card. Machine compatibility is in its BIOS. If the BIOS has something in it that the program (setupat) is not expecting then it might generate that message. Does your AT have the original IBM BIOS? It might have been replaced or might even be corrupt.

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 07:30 AM
The bios should be ibm. It's dated 11/15/85. I don't know why it would have been changed since the rest of the machine was stock except for the inboard/386 card. I put another intel 286-8 in the machine but that shouldn't have any effect.
Is there a way to dump it using a program?

I'll look at the bios chips and take a pic when I get home.

mikey99
May 22nd, 2014, 08:58 AM
The setupat.exe basically just provides the user with some selections that it then uses to add the EMM.SYS
driver to config.sys with the correct parameters. It also provides options for setting up a RAM disk in the
expanded memory.

It should be possible to just add EMM.SYS to config.sys manually to enable the expanded memory.....
just need to figure out what the correct parameters are. I'll try going through the setupat again and having
it write the changes to config.sys. Then we should be able to use those same basic settings.

This will hopefully eliminate the requirement for DOS 3/3.1 or a genuine AT Bios.

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 09:09 AM
This is what checkit says
http://flic.kr/p/nqjDjb

http://flic.kr/p/nqjDjb

My phone is being stupid. Here's the link I hope. This pic was from a while ago so ignore the memory settings. Posted only for bios info.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/14058725570_604cc5f71d_b.jpg

Stone
May 22nd, 2014, 09:50 AM
Checkit also says it's a 386 processor. :-)

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 10:29 AM
Checkit also says it's a 386 processor. :-)
That's because I had the Inboard 386 card installed at that time. So that was correct.

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 10:48 AM
This will hopefully eliminate the requirement for DOS 3/3.1 or a genuine AT Bios.

What bios do you have?
What is the issue you are having with the DOS incompatibly? Does it launch an error message, or does it just not launch?
Just wondering if I am having some incompatibility with DOS 6.22 as why it would say my system is not AT compatible. Pretty sure that I have an IBM BIOS.
I just need some way to confirm that.

Stone
May 22nd, 2014, 10:54 AM
That's because I had the Inboard 386 card installed at that time. So that was correct.
And you're wondering why you're getting BIOS related error messages from the card's setup program?

Why don't you set up the memory card with the 286 and THEN install the 386 board (if you still want it in the system)?

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 11:19 AM
And you're wondering why you're getting BIOS related error messages from the card's setup program?

Why don't you set up the memory card with the 286 and THEN install the 386 board (if you still want it in the system)?

I wrote previously in this thread that I had already removed the 386 board and installed a 286-8. The computer should be a stock AT again except for a Soundblaster Pro and the Intel Above Board card.

The Intel Above board is the only memory board in the system as of now.

Stone
May 22nd, 2014, 12:00 PM
I wrote previously in this thread that I had already removed the 386 board and installed a 286-8.The last thing you wrote had a pic of Checkit with a 386 showing. You're doing a fantastic job of being confusing. :-)

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 12:23 PM
And in that post I wrote that it was from a while ago, and to ignore memory settings, and to only look at the BIOS info.

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 12:32 PM
I used some program to dump the bios... But, it is about 1MB for some reason. Looks like some of what it dumped was garbage.
It was called dumpat.exe and I got it on the bottom of the page here. http://www.mess.org/dumping/dump_bios_using_debug

But, if you scroll to the very bottom in a hex editor you can see the date stamp. I could also see that the PC Basic was also dumped in there.
Not sure if anyone can check it out and see if it's IBM.






https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2912/14060235240_763a8b33a1_b.jpg

Malc
May 22nd, 2014, 01:21 PM
Looks like it, I see reference to 61x9266 the 3rd rev bios used on the type 3 mobo's, Mike Brutman wrote an app to dump bios's called PCJRCART it's not limited to the pcjr , i've used it several times on different pc's and you get a nice clean dump.

offensive_Jerk
May 22nd, 2014, 01:47 PM
Looks like it, I see reference to 61x9266 the 3rd rev bios used on the type 3 mobo's, Mike Brutman wrote an app to dump bios's called PCJRCART it's not limited to the pcjr , i've used it several times on different pc's and you get a nice clean dump.

Thanks for that.

Malc
May 22nd, 2014, 02:52 PM
Yes you can stop it from adding the header using the -noheaders switch. and to display help use -? or you can open the source file included and see the help contents there.

mikey99
May 22nd, 2014, 03:06 PM
I created a DOS 3.1 boot diskette, ran the setupat.exe and specified expanded memory with a 128K ram disk and a 16k print buffer.
It updated the disk with the following:

config.sys:

DEVICE=EMM.SYS M5 IB
DEVICE = QUIKMEM2.SYS 128

autoexec.bat:

QUIKBUF2 16 G

You can just add these lines manually to the config.sys and autoexec.bat and forget about using
that setupat.exe program....

I put these on my DOS 3.3 boot drive along with the files and it booted fine, and Checkit tested the
expanded memory as good.

I attached pictures of the Checkit BIOS info and also the drivers which are loaded at boot time.

187781878018779

offensive_Jerk
May 23rd, 2014, 03:11 AM
I tried using those parameters, Mikey99, but upon boot EMM.sys can't find the card still! I don't get it. Why would the test program work fine, test the RAM and see the card and tell me there are no longer any errors, yet the setup program can't detect the card? Does it need to be in a certain slot??


I understand that the 5170 has the BIOS on two 32k chips, but PCJRCART must dump them both into one file since it's 64K.

From minuszerodegrees.net, it says that there are two revisions of the latest bios:

U27 has the IBM part number of 61X9266, and is 32K in size
U47 has the IBM part number of 61X9265, and is 32K in size

Opening the BIOS in a hex editor, I can see the reference to the part number 61X9266:

61X9266COPR. IBM CORP. 1981,1985 6611XX99226665 CCOOPPRR..

But, I can't find any reference to the other part number 61X9265 in the file, even when using the search feature in the hex editor.

PCJRCART also dumped another file called C000.bin, but I see 6277356 in the bios dump, and a little searching shows that's the EGA bios.


The test program says everything is a-OK.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2900/14063920827_f00a50e34c_z.jpg




This is the error I get when running the card's setup program:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2908/14063851969_f05430d0db_c.jpg




This is the error when I have emm.sys in CONFIG.SYS just like you do, Mikey99:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5534/14063853179_1582f25171_c.jpg

SpidersWeb
May 23rd, 2014, 04:21 AM
I understand that the 5170 has the BIOS on two 32k chips, but PCJRCART must dump them both into one file since it's 64K.

On the AT the data is split across two chips - they alternate every byte. So think of them like a single 64KB chip. You could never use or update the code on just one of them - they're a pair. If you ask for an even byte, it gets read from one chip, ask for an odd byte and it gets read from the other (you may have seen some clones in the past with EVEN and ODD labels on theirs).

As for the part numbers, I think you did find both, if 61x9266 and 61x9265 are written on each EPROM's at the same address then when they got read as a single image you'd get 6611XX99226665 (because of the alternating bytes).



61X9266COPR. IBM CORP. 1981,1985 6611XX99226665 CCOOPPRR..

mikey99
May 23rd, 2014, 04:41 AM
Did you try running the setupat.exe in DOS 3.1 ?

When I ran setupat.exe on DOS 3.3 it gave an error saying it only supports DOS 3.0 and 3.1.

offensive_Jerk
May 23rd, 2014, 05:15 AM
On the AT the data is split across two chips - they alternate every byte. So think of them like a single 64KB chip. You could never use or update the code on just one of them - they're a pair. If you ask for an even byte, it gets read from one chip, ask for an odd byte and it gets read from the other (you may have seen some clones in the past with EVEN and ODD labels on theirs).

As for the part numbers, I think you did find both, if 61x9266 and 61x9265 are written on each EPROM's at the same address then when they got read as a single image you'd get 6611XX99226665 (because of the alternating bytes).

OK that makes more sense. I didn't know they got combined into one ROM.

I guess I'll try on DOS 3.0 and see what happens.

offensive_Jerk
May 23rd, 2014, 05:18 AM
Did you try running the setupat.exe in DOS 3.1 ?

When I ran setupat.exe on DOS 3.3 it gave an error saying it only supports DOS 3.0 and 3.1.

I was wondering if it was giving you an error message or just locking up or something. I'll try this.

modem7
May 23rd, 2014, 02:37 PM
I dumped the bios again, this time with no header from the PCJRCART program.
https://app.box.com/s/ozjc903f0hmpjudmamx0

I confirm that that is a byte-for-byte match with the final 5170 BIOS revision, dated 11/15/85 (the second variation of).

Could the SETUP program, although dated in the same year ("Copyright 1985") predate 11/15/85, and that is the cause.

offensive_Jerk
May 23rd, 2014, 09:50 PM
Thanks for that Modem7.

Maybe instead of trying DOS 3.0 first, I will try using the EMM.SYS file from trixter's site with the parameters you provided earlier. Who knows, maybe SETUPAT.EXE will work if I just replace EMM.SYS with a newer one.

ftp://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/misc/Hardware/Intel/

offensive_Jerk
May 24th, 2014, 05:24 AM
Still no luck. I must be having some I/O address conflicts.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5080/14234863556_5801628f5e_b.jpg

offensive_Jerk
May 24th, 2014, 05:49 AM
I found this on Google's cache of Intel's support site.


16-BIT VIDEO BOARD COMPATIBILITY


If your Intel Above Board ISA supplies expanded memory, there could
be a conflict with 16-bit VGA boards in the address range C000-DFFF.

The solution is to set the video board to work in "8-bit" mode (This
will not degrade or slow down the VGA if a cache is provided), and
exclude the video board reserved memory address on the ISAEMM.SYS
line in the CONFIG.SYS file. For example, if you have a VGA
video card with a 32K ROM starting at C000, your ISAEMM.SYS line
would be:

DEVICE=ISAEMM.SYS EP=C000-C7FF

The PCJRCART dumping program also dumped a file called C000.bin which looked like the EGA bios as I previously posted. But, it's not VGA like the instructions above say. I wonder if that's why I'm having this conflict.

mikey99
May 24th, 2014, 06:30 AM
Do you have a VGA card installed ?

I'm using a genuine IBM EGA card with 256K memory.

You could try using QRAM which is also available on Trixters site.

ftp://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/misc/Software/Utils/QRAM.zip

QRAM supports 286 processors.

offensive_Jerk
May 24th, 2014, 07:15 AM
It's a genuine ibm ega card. I removed the ega card and put a cga card in. Now when I run pcjrcart it does not detect anything at c000.

The bad news is that when I keep the cga card in and put the above board card in, the setup program didn't detect the card still. Ugh.

I guess I'll try dos 3.0 but I don't think that's the issue. Not sure if the card is shot or what. It works enough for it to detect the ram so I don't get it

offensive_Jerk
May 24th, 2014, 10:38 AM
OMG........


It works. Mikey99, you were right all along. I finally got an image of MS-DOS 3.10 ready to go and booted the machine. It didn't work any other drivers except those early v1.0 circa 1985 drivers you sent me in DOS 3.10. I didn't try the other newer drivers in DOS 3.10, because what's the point? They don't work for newer DOS versions so why bother.

WHY WHY WHY? Why would they only make the card compatible with one set of drivers that only work on DOS 3.0 or 3.10? Now we're limited to those versions if we want to use our Above Boards?

What I finally did just to test and see if it worked, was booted from a DOS 3.10 diskette, and inserted the earlier driver disk. I ran the setupat.exe program, when it asked me which disk, I selected other. This time it didn't give me the error message that it couldn't find the card so it seemed promising. It finished and then quit the program. It edited the config.sys and autoexec.bat files on my c: drive. I copied those over to the A: DOS 3.10 boot diskette. There wasn't much room left so I only copied emm.sys to the A drive to boot and see if it worked.

I booted from the A drive and it loaded. EMM.sys tested the memory after dos booted. Apparently, MEM must not be a command for DOS 3.10 so I went on my C drive where my newer driver files for Above Boards were and ran chkmem.exe. Thats the pic below.

Now it seems to be working, but it sucks that only dos 3.10 is supported. I never got any messages about it not being supported in DOS 6.22 like mikey99 did, it just said card wasn't detected. WTF.

Anyone recommend a better supported memory board for AT's?


https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2898/14073258820_fd7c66d821_b.jpg

mikey99
May 24th, 2014, 01:19 PM
That's great news......

Actually the drivers (EMM.SYS, QUIKBUF1, QUIKMEM1) work fine on my DOS 3.3 boot drive.

It's just the setupat.exe program that wouldn't work on DOS 3.3.

mikey99
May 25th, 2014, 02:23 PM
I copied the drivers to a DOS 5.0 boot diskette.

When booting from that diskette, the EMS.SYS driver fails with a message saying my computer isn't
fully compatible with the PC/AT. So it appears the DOS version is causing the error you're seeing.

SpidersWeb
May 25th, 2014, 02:41 PM
If you don't *need* EMS, just use XMS cards. No drivers or mucking about.
I'm using an AST RAMVantage (up to 3MB) on my AT now, and it'll back fill conventional without any wastage. No driver needed except HIMEM.SYS. The only disadvantage is many programs from that era can't use the extra RAM - but you can still load DOS=HIGH at least. Fine for me because Windows 3.1, Smart Drive, NWLite Cache all support XMS.

I'd also expect, somewhere out there, is an updated Above Board driver. Surely Intel would've patched that issue at some point?

Edit: try SETVER and tell it to pretend to be DOS 3.1 for EMM.SYS and SETUPAT.EXE etc.
I have to do this to run Windows 2.11 under DOS 6. I didn't mention it before because I forgot you load it in CONFIG.SYS (before EMM.SYS ;) )

C> SETVER EMM.SYS 3.10
C> SETVER SETUPAT.EXE 3.10
add
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
above emm.sys in your config.sys file

Worth a try.

offensive_Jerk
May 30th, 2014, 03:38 AM
Just for Kicks I swapped out the 64K bank of chips for 256K chips. Detected a bad module, but replaced it and it's working OK now. With DOS 3.3 that is.

offensive_Jerk
May 30th, 2014, 07:08 AM
I tried to use QRAM but it tells me that my EMS board only has a 64K page frame available for mapping in high memory. For QRAM to create High RAM in the current configuration, you need to use the QRAM parameter: FL=0 This would disable the ability for applications to use expanded memory.

Then it doesn't map anything high. Should I flip the dip switches and set 1MB to Extended Memory?

Stone
May 30th, 2014, 07:44 AM
IIRC, QRAM is only for boards with a C&T Chipset.

offensive_Jerk
May 30th, 2014, 08:00 AM
IIRC, QRAM is only for boards with a C&T Chipset.

Is it? any other memory managers you recommend?

Stone
May 30th, 2014, 08:17 AM
For a 286 DOS 5 or higher is good. It lets you load DOS into the high memory area. It might let you put some TSRs there as well.

offensive_Jerk
May 30th, 2014, 08:20 AM
For a 286 DOS 5 or higher is good. It lets you load DOS into the high memory area. It might let you put some TSRs there as well.

That would be great...except that the horrid Intel drivers for the Above Board are horribly incompatible with anything that's not DOS 3.*.

krebizfan
May 30th, 2014, 08:22 AM
You need an EMS 4.0 driver specific to the expansion card installed to have any chance of loading drivers high. Very early Above Boards are only capable of handling EMS 3.2 and can not load high no matter what driver is installed. Some Above Boards were shipped with EMS 3.2 drivers but were capable of implementing most of EMS 4.0 with updated drivers; these won't be as good as cards designed after EMS 4.0 but loading one or two drivers high should be possible.

I think Intel had updated their drivers to work with DOS 5 and 6 but I don't have those drivers and I don't know of any archive of the Intel BBS. Edit: See ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/misc1/PEROPSYS/MSDOS/KB/Q78/2/90.TXT for confirmation.

Stone
May 30th, 2014, 08:49 AM
That would be great...except that the horrid Intel drivers for the Above Board are horribly incompatible with anything that's not DOS 3.*.I think once they're installed (with DOS 3.x) you can upgrade DOS and the lame Intel crap will still work. It's only the install program that's DOS 3.x specific.

offensive_Jerk
May 30th, 2014, 08:55 AM
I think once they're installed (with DOS 3.x) you can upgrade DOS and the lame Intel crap will still work. It's only the install program that's DOS 3.x specific.

Yes the install progam crashes. But, I've tried EMM.sys on DOS 6.22 and even the driver wouldn't work on that version. Using the same version of the driver I only got it to work with DOS 3.

offensive_Jerk
May 30th, 2014, 09:48 AM
I tried the newest drivers from here http://ibm-pc.org/drivers/memory/memory.htm

Still nothing, won't detect card even if I replace my existing emm.sys driver with this newer one.
It's so odd, because the TestAB program is never on this version, and this version can even detect what the dip switch settings are. ... So it obviously knows my card is present. But the setupcard program still bombs out, and so does emm.sys.

I changed the dipswitch settings and tried every single IO address combination it has available. Still won't detect. I'll try the other version of drivers that site has...but this is getting annoying.

offensive_Jerk
May 30th, 2014, 10:13 AM
Who was I kidding? ..... of course those didn't work either.
I'll have to keep an eye out for reasonable AST Advantage or something.