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flax
October 28th, 2003, 10:40 AM
I hope no one minds my choice of forum to discuss this...
It'd be nice to hear what emulators (if any) people use to avoid wear and tear on the equipment. As for myself, I use yaze for CP/M emulation and it works surprisingly well. Running it on my Linux box I can develop software which I then download to my Microbee to run "for real". Since Yaze lack any peculiar hardware it runs most software you can find for CP/M as long as you figure out how to get the screen/terminal settings correct.
I also use the klh10 and simh PDP-10 emulator. The simh emulator is also available for several other vintage machines, such as PDP-8, PDP-11 as well as Altair-8800 (available in both 808 and Z80 versions)

Are there any other favourite emulators?
simh: http://simh.trailing-edge.com
yaze: Several versions, the one I use is from http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/
klh10: http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ (you might need to sign/email a license agreement in order to use the TOPS-10/TOPS-20 distributions)
Amiga: http://www.freiburg.linux.de/~uae/ (ROM files need to be bought or provided from original)
If you like your vintage equipment

vic user
October 29th, 2003, 04:45 AM
I started trying to use an emulator for similar reasons as yours... To limit the amount of time my vic 20 (and more importantly my floppy drives) are powered up.

I thought I would do some initial coding on the emulator, and then move back to the 'real thing' when I had something half decent, but I find I just do not get the same feel on an emulator, so I have gone back to programming on my actual vic 20.

I am using VICE (which has comes with a lot of Commodore emulations in it), to run games I get off the internet, and that's about it.

Chris

Unknown_K
January 1st, 2004, 06:56 PM
I dont write software for the old systems but I do use them to play original games, nothing like the real thing (just not the same using an emulator)

CP/M User
January 1st, 2004, 07:52 PM
"flax" wrote:

> I hope no one minds my choice of forum to discuss this...

This is the software section.

> It'd be nice to hear what emulators (if any) people use
> to avoid wear and tear on the equipment. As for myself,
> I use yaze for CP/M emulation and it works surprisingly
> well. Running it on my Linux box I can develop software
> which I then download to my Microbee to run "for real".
> Since Yaze lack any peculiar hardware it runs most
> software you can find for CP/M as long as you figure
> out how to get the screen/terminal settings correct.

I doubt you'd get any of my Hardware Specific TP programs
working in that.

> I also use the klh10 and simh PDP-10 emulator. The
> simh emulator is also available for several other vintage
> machines, such as PDP-8, PDP-11 as well as Altair-8800
> (available in both 808 and Z80 versions)

> Are there any other favourite emulators?
> simh: http://simh.trailing-edge.com
> yaze: Several versions, the one I use is from
> http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/users/ag/yaze-ag/
> klh10: http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/
> (you might need to sign/email a license agreement in
> order to use the TOPS-10/TOPS-20 distributions)
> Amiga: http://www.freiburg.linux.de/~uae/ (ROM files
> need to be bought or provided from original)
> If you like your vintage equipment

Since my computer runs best in DOS, I use DOS emulators
which are mostly Amstrad based, however I do have other
emulators, one for an Atari 2600 (PCAE), Jupiter Ace
(Ace32).

Some of the least used emulators I have are a COCO
emulator, Vic20 emulator (V20), Oric emulator (Euphoric) &
an Apple II based emulator (aplpc252). I also have a Edsac
Emulator which is good (for Windows though). Most of those
emulators are good except for the Vic20 which is okay, but
it's not a true DOS app (reqs. DOS box & Win95+). The
COCO one is also a bit strange & is really ol' (for 286+).

However I've tinkered around with a few Amstrad CPC
emulators, the best one I would say is Caprice, however
it has it's problems with some demos. The other ones I've
played with is CPE52 (this one emerged into Caprice &
can still emulate some demo stuff without stuffing up like
Caprice does, though it's not very good for demos).
CPCEMU15 (I actually started with CPCEMU14), though it's
ruggid, NO$CPC (another goodie), Winape (Beta - wasn't
impressed by the speed since it's Windows based), RWCPC
(okay). But that's about all.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User
January 1st, 2004, 07:58 PM
"vic user" wrote:

> I started trying to use an emulator for similar
> reasons as yours... To limit the amount of
> time my vic 20 (and more importantly my
> floppy drives) are powered up.

> I thought I would do some initial coding on the
> emulator, and then move back to the 'real
> thing' when I had something half decent, but I
> find I just do not get the same feel on an
> emulator, so I have gone back to programming
> on my actual vic 20.

> I am using VICE (which has comes with a lot
> of Commodore emulations in it), to run games
> I get off the internet, and that's about it.

That reminds me, one of the reasons I got V20
was to do some type-ins (the local library had
this book filled with Vic 20 games to type-in).
To my horror I found V20 irratating to use
because you had to get used to the characters
& V20 didn't give a layout of the keyboard or
something. Still I got a couple of programs
running in it & it wasn't a bad emulator, it was
just trying to work out where those Graphical
keys were on your PC keyboard! :-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

carlsson
January 1st, 2004, 11:28 PM
V20 - isn't that the one by Lance Ewing? I used to be in touch with him, and he had two different versions under development, V20DOS and V20PLUS, the latter rewritten in C++ to get even slower but potentially easier to expand.

For a short while, Lance's two emulators, Paul Robsons VIC20.COM and Arne's Pfau Zeh had different strengths. Then Boris van Schooten's PCVIC took over the market until the VICE team greatly improved the xvic VIC-20 emulation (much due to the post-1996 demos setting new standards how far the hardware could be pushed).

I believe it is rather easy to find suitable emulators if you ask other people which one they recommend, e.g. on the ZX Spectrum scene there might be one user friendly and another one which does the best job.

So far, the most difficult thing was to find a Nintendo 8-bit emulator (there are millions of them, but most require really speedy machines) and Texas TI99 (there is a free, 386-optimized emulator which still seems to be the best bet if you don't want to pay - and Texas Instruments still have quite a number of issues with illegal emulation of their since long obsolete computer(s)).

CP/M User
January 2nd, 2004, 12:23 AM
"carlsson" wrote:

> V20 - isn't that the one by Lance Ewing? I used to
> be in touch with him, and he had two different
> versions under development, V20DOS and
> V20PLUS, the latter rewritten in C++ to get even
> slower but potentially easier to expand.

Yes, the top of the document reads like this:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
V20 v1.3 - VIC 20 Emulator for DOS
(c) Lance Ewing 1997
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

But I hate to say, it doesn't run in Native DOS! :-(

For nostalagic purposes I downloaded it in January 19th
1998 (when I was still at college - those were the mad
schooling days when I was using the internet just to
download some unrelated material). However, I could
have downloaded this at the public library (as I don't
recall being back at college that early).

> For a short while, Lance's two emulators, Paul
> Robsons VIC20.COM and Arne's Pfau Zeh had
> different strengths. Then Boris van Schooten's
> PCVIC took over the market until the VICE
> team greatly improved the xvic VIC-20 emulation
> (much due to the post-1996 demos setting new
> standards how far the hardware could be pushed).

Of course the think to remember with this is I
downloaded it with the potential to do some type-ins,
which is perhaps was V20 is okay doing. I can't
actually remember where I found V20, I probably
did a search for the first DOS emulator (back then
it was usually infoseek).

> I believe it is rather easy to find suitable
> emulators if you ask other people which one they
> recommend, e.g. on the ZX Spectrum scene there
> might be one user friendly and another one which
> does the best job.

Well as long as the machine is suitable, I get people
still asking me why I use an older emulator, using an
older computer is the reason I say I use an older
emulator as it's the best one for it. It's great that
they can get things for accurate & realistic with
hardware & stuff, but it usually means having a much
more powerful computer.

> So far, the most difficult thing was to find a Nintendo
> 8-bit emulator (there are millions of them, but most
> require really speedy machines) and Texas TI99
> (there is a free, 386-optimized emulator which still
> seems to be the best bet if you don't want to pay -
> and Texas Instruments still have quite a number of
> issues with illegal emulation of their since long
> obsolete computer(s)).

Well when I download PCAE (the Atari 2600 emulator)
it was regarded as a fairly good emulator with good
results on a 486 running at 66Mhz. Since I've
downloaded mine, it's been updated, but I'm still using
the old one (which is fine with the stuff I'm using),
though the later one is perhaps more acurate. Since
there's hundreds of 8bit NESs out there, then maybe
I should get someone to do one for CP/M-86! ;-)

I've actually seen this TI-99/4A emulator, but I think
it's a waste of money! ;-) Otherwise I'd have it. Only
good thing I see comming out of that is the money
would at least encourage the writers to write better
& more optimised code for this emulator.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

DoctorPepper
February 15th, 2004, 08:19 AM
I currently use XTRS for my TRS-80 Model I/III/IV/4P emulation under Linux and FreeBSD. While I haven't tried them out, there are many more available. This is a list I got from the Debian testing archives (I cleaned it up some). Although they are not all vintage computer emulators, I though some of the other entries might appeal to some board members:

bochs - IA-32 / x86-64 PC emulator
bochsbios - BIOS for the Bochs emulator
dosbox - A x86 emulator with CGA/EGA/VGA graphics, sound and DOS
gngb - GameBoy Emulator
hercules - System/370, ESA/390 and z/Architecture Emulator
libwine - Windows Emulator (Library)
libwine-alsa - Windows Emulator (ALSA Sound Module)
libwine-arts - Windows Emulator (aRts Sound Module)
libwine-dev - Windows Emulator (Development files)
libwine-jack - Windows Emulator (JACK Sound Module)
libwine-nas - Windows Emulator (NAS Sound Module)
libwine-print - Windows Emulator (Printing Module)
libwine-twain - Windows Emulator (Scanner Module)
palbart - An enhanced version of the PAL PDP8 assembler
pdp1-lisp - Early Lisp interpreter for a PDP-1 emulator
pinball - The Emilia Pinball Emulator.
pinball-data - Data files for the Emilia Pinball Emulator.
simh - Emulators for 29 different computers
tkisem - Graphical SPARC emulator
ts10 - Emulators for various old computers
wine - Windows Emulator (Binary Emulator)
wine-doc - Windows Emulator (Documentation)
wine-utils - Windows Emulator (Utilities)
winesetuptk - Windows Emulator (Configuration and Setup Tool)
xtel - An X emulator of the French Minitel
dgen - Sega Genesis/MegaDrive emulator
os8 - DEC OS8 images for a PDP-8 emulator
pdp11-unix-v5 - Caldera UNIX V5 images for a PDP-11 emulator
pdp11-unix-v6 - Caldera UNIX V6 images for a PDP-11 emulator
pdp11-unix-v7 - Caldera UNIX V7 images for a PDP-11 emulator
snes9x-common - Common files for snes9x
snes9x-fx - Glide binaries for snes9x - Super NES Emulator
snes9x-opengl - OpenGL binaries for snes9x - Super NES Emulator
snes9x-svga - SVGALIB binaries for snes9x - Super NES Emulator
snes9x-x - X binaries for snes9x - Super NES Emulator
spim - MIPS R2000/R3000 emulator.
xzx - X11 based ZX Spectrum emulator
apple2 - Apple ][ Emulator
atari800 - Atari emulator for X/curses/SDL
basilisk2 - 68k Macintosh emulator
dosemu - The Linux DOS Emulator
fceu-doc - Documentation for FCE Ultra - a nintendo (8-bit) emulator
fceu-sdl - SDL version of FCE Ultra - a nintendo (8-bit) emulator
fceu-svga - Linux SVGALIB version of FCE Ultra - a nintendo (8-bit) emulator
gngeo - NeoGeo emulator
gngeogui - GUI Frontend for gngeo
gnuboy-sdl - SDL binaries for gnuboy - Game Boy Emulator.
gnuboy-svga - SVGALIB binaries for gnuboy - Game Boy Emulator.
gnuboy-x - X binaries for gnuboy - Game Boy Emulator.
gsnes9x - GNOME front-end for snes9x
nestra - Nintendo Entertainment System emulator
pose - PalmOS Emulator
pose-skins - skins for the PalmOS Emulator
spectemu-common - Fast 48k ZX Spectrum Emulator (common files)
spectemu-svga - Fast 48k ZX Spectrum Emulator for SVGAlib
spectemu-x11 - Fast 48k ZX Spectrum Emulator for X11
stella - Atari 2600 Emulator for SDL & X windows
tiemu - Texas Instruments calculators emulator
uae - The Ubiquitous Amiga Emulator: Base
uae-exotic - The Ubiquitous Amiga Emulator: Exotic binaries
uae-suid - The Ubiquitous Amiga Emulator: Suid root binaries
vice - The Versatile Commodore Emulator
xapple2 - Apple ][ Emulator
xfonts-dosemu - VGA font for the DOS Emulator
xtrs - emulator for TRS-80 Model I/III/4/4P computers
zsnes - Emulator of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (TM)

CP/M User
February 15th, 2004, 12:58 PM
I was just wonderning if any of the
emulators you posted run under DOS?

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Terry Yager
February 15th, 2004, 05:34 PM
I was just wonderning if any of the
emulators you posted run under DOS?

Cheers,
CP/M User.

I like to play with the SIMH emulators (Imsai and Altair), which run under Win 98SE (in DOS window).

http://www.schorn.ch/cpm/intro.html

--T

CP/M User
February 15th, 2004, 06:01 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> I was just wonderning if any of the
>> emulators you posted run under DOS?

> I like to play with the SIMH emulators
> (Imsai and Altair), which run under Win
> 98SE (in DOS window).

No, when I mean DOS, I mean native DOS
programs. Not DOS\Windows ones!

Course, I'm not familiar with that one, so
I guess it would run under Native DOS.

Though I've come across to much of this
DOS stuff which isn't fully DOS dependent.

CP/M User.

DoctorPepper
February 15th, 2004, 06:19 PM
I was just wonderning if any of the
emulators you posted run under DOS?

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Nope, they all run under Linux and other Unix-like os's. There are a couple of emulators I've seen for DOS, one that comes to mind is David Keil's TRS-80 Model I/III/IV emulator. The cool thing about this one is it is real easy to switch virtual disks.

I know you mainly enjoy CP/M (hense the moniker), and you can run at least two flavors of CP/M under this emulator.

If you're not familiar with it, check it out at:

http://discover-net.net/~dmkeil/

I get my disk images (in DMK format) at:

http://www.trs-80.com

You'll find the images under "CP/M" and under the "M" section of Model IV. That's where Montezuma Micro CP/M 2.2 is located.

CP/M User
February 15th, 2004, 06:51 PM
"DoctorPepper" wrote:

>> I was just wonderning if any of the
>> emulators you posted run under DOS?

> Nope, they all run under Linux and other
> Unix-like os's. There are a couple of
> emulators I've seen for DOS, one that
> comes to mind is David Keil's TRS-80
> Model I/III/IV emulator. The cool thing
> about this one is it is real easy to switch
> virtual disks.

> I know you mainly enjoy CP/M (hense
> the moniker), and you can run at least
> two flavors of CP/M under this emulator.

Oh well, if you look at me personally,
you'll see I have a few different interests
like Yaking On, Amstrad CPC computers,
Jupiter Aceing & Turbo Pascal (with a lot
of M/C added!:-)

I don't particularly care much more CP/M
emulators, more of emulated machines
which can run CP/M (like Amstrad CPCs).

I guess the best of CP/M clones (which
isn't really CP/M programs I've comed
across was Zsim), but as the writer claims
it's no CP/M, even though it has support
for running CP/M programs & reading
CP/M disks! :-)

On an IBM I tend to use CP/M-86 which is
the proper OS (if I can say that) itself.

No actually, I don't mind DOS & have been
using it a lot under my favourite Amstrad
DOS emulator (Caprice), but I what I had
in mind, you probably won't know the
Answer to, since I'm looking more towards
DOS emulators.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

DoctorPepper
February 16th, 2004, 03:08 PM
No actually, I don't mind DOS & have been
using it a lot under my favourite Amstrad
DOS emulator (Caprice), but I what I had
in mind, you probably won't know the
Answer to, since I'm looking more towards
DOS emulators.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Are you looking for a DOS emulator to run under a certain OS, or are you looking for different emulators to run under DOS? That might help. There are lots of emulator projects out there.

Terry Yager
February 16th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Real men do thier real computing on the real hardware! I only use emulators for the hardware I don't (and prolly never will) own, Altair, Imsai, etc. I'm not afraid of blowing anything up, I'll just fix it up again (with a roll of duct tape and a Swiss Army Knife). Actually, everything of mine that has died recently has died while *in storage*. (Worked when I put it away...). I figger, if it's gonna blow, I'd rather it blew while working and happy.

--T

CP/M User
February 17th, 2004, 02:03 AM
"DoctorPepper" wrote:

>> No actually, I don't mind DOS & have been
>> using it a lot under my favourite Amstrad
>> DOS emulator (Caprice), but I what I had
>> in mind, you probably won't know the
>> Answer to, since I'm looking more towards
>> DOS emulators.

> Are you looking for a DOS emulator to run
> under a certain OS, or are you looking for
> different emulators to run under DOS? That
> might help. There are lots of emulator
> projects out there.

Mostly emulators for DOS! :-)

But really, I should just look & see what I can
find! :-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User
February 17th, 2004, 02:09 AM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Real men do thier real computing on
> the real hardware!

True. I'm a woose though & when it
comes to it (because it's part of the
main computer I use - even though
I have others).

> I only use emulators for the hardware
> I don't (and prolly never will) own,
> Altair, Imsai, etc. I'm not afraid of
> blowing anything up, I'll just fix it
> up again (with a roll of duct tape and
> a Swiss Army Knife). Actually,
> everything of mine that has died
> recently has died while *in storage*.
> (Worked when I put it away...). I
> figger, if it's gonna blow, I'd rather
> it blew while working and happy.

Another part of my feeble excuse that
my machine may blow. I keep mine
in covers so that dust doesn't get into
it either! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

DoctorPepper
February 17th, 2004, 04:32 PM
True, very true.

I'm afraid one of my disk drives for my Model IV has stroked-out, or the controller died. I haven't had time to troubleshoot it yet. Maybe this weekend. I could swap-out the drives and see if it boots.

I have given some thought to pulling the original drives and replacing them with more modern ones. I have a nice document that explains how to do it with each different TRS-80 machine, and which drives will work with them.

I figure I can put the originals away and play around on the newer ones.

ahm
April 11th, 2004, 05:51 PM
I find it fun to nest emulators inside one another. It amuses me to be able to run CP/M in a window on my Linux machine (xdos -> MYZ80) or my OpenBSD machine (bochs -> MYZ80). I also enjoy game console emulators, like xstella (Atari 2600) and iNES (Nintendo NES).

CP/M User
April 15th, 2004, 01:56 AM
"ahm" wrote:

> I find it fun to nest emulators inside one
> another. It amuses me to be able to run
> CP/M in a window on my Linux machine
> (xdos -> MYZ80) or my OpenBSD
> machine (bochs -> MYZ80). I also enjoy
> game console emulators, like xstella
> (Atari 2600) and iNES (Nintendo NES).

Just curious to know, cause about a month
ago I was talking to someone about having
CP/M as a Window with GUI around it & I
see that this approach has been done in
Linux. I was just wonderning if you can do
much with this Window (in Linux) like select
text, copy, paste (or anything which seems
useful) or is it just good for showing off! :-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

ahm
April 15th, 2004, 07:33 AM
I was just wonderning if you can do
much with this Window (in Linux) like select
text, copy, paste (or anything which seems
useful) or is it just good for showing off! :-)

Cut and paste doesn't seem to work in bochs, which appears to render it's screen as graphics.
(I can't check xdos as readily because that machine is down right now, but it probably works in a similar manner).

There are other ways of dealing with what's on the screen, depending on what you're trying to do.
For instance, you can probably have Linux take a screenshot to capture the output.
And most emulators have a way to move data and programs in and out of them.

But they are also good for showing off! :-)

CP/M User
April 17th, 2004, 03:51 PM
"ahm" wrote:

>> I was just wonderning if you can do
>> much with this Window (in Linux) like select
>> text, copy, paste (or anything which seems
>> useful) or is it just good for showing off! :-)

> Cut and paste doesn't seem to work in bochs,
> which appears to render it's screen as graphics.
> (I can't check xdos as readily because that
> machine is down right now, but it probably
> works in a similar manner).

> There are other ways of dealing with what's
> on the screen, depending on what you're
> trying to do.
> For instance, you can probably have Linux
> take a screenshot to capture the output.
> And most emulators have a way to move data
> and programs in and out of them.

Well yeah, you can do that, but as a matter of
speaking, I was just wondering if it could do
what Windows (the program) does with a DOS
Window (in it you can select, copy & paste text).
Not that I'm saying that Windows is better, but
it's just an idea which I guess could be possible
to do in Linux.

> But they are also good for showing off! :-)

Yeah, but like I said it could also have a use to
go with it (like Windows treats a DOS Window),
it would be terrible if some Windows freak came
around & laughed at your CP/M Window, just
because it can't copy & paste some text between
programs.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

ahm
April 19th, 2004, 10:34 AM
I'm not really sure what it is you're asking, so perhaps you'll try it yourself.
I look forward to your results.

CP/M User
April 19th, 2004, 02:01 PM
"ahm" wrote:

> I'm not really sure what it is you're asking,
> so perhaps you'll try it yourself.
> I look forward to your results.

Well it's not something I can do (cause I don't
have the software), I was just suggesting that
it would be a pity, if you couldn't pull up your
CP/M Window, select the text inside it, copy it
& paste it to another application (e.g. Word
Processor, Text Editor). I think you've
answered what I was thinking anyway! :-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.