PDA

View Full Version : CF card = IDE?



Phil Saunders
May 26th, 2014, 02:57 PM
Does anyone have a definitive answer - is there any way to connect a CF card to an XT-IDE controller?

I know there are XT-CF controllers around that have an IDE connector into which you can connect a CF adapter, but I believe these 'IDE' ports are AT type?

I have an actual XT-IDE controller, but no drive that will physically fit in the machine.

Chuck(G)
May 26th, 2014, 03:25 PM
A little terminology might help. Do you have a PATA controller or an XTA controller? The XTA (sometimes also called XT-IDE) interface at the drive (port) level is very different from PATA.

If you're not certain, a model number should tell all.

Stone
May 26th, 2014, 03:47 PM
I have an actual XT-IDE controller, but no drive that will physically fit in the machine.What machine is it that can't take a 3½" drive?

pearce_jj
May 26th, 2014, 11:00 PM
Does anyone have a definitive answer - is there any way to connect a CF card to an XT-IDE controller?

I know there are XT-CF controllers around that have an IDE connector into which you can connect a CF adapter, but I believe these 'IDE' ports are AT type?

I have an actual XT-IDE controller, but no drive that will physically fit in the machine.

There were at least two 8-bit IDE style interfaces in the late 80's, one from IBM and another from Tandy and others. Both have 8-bit data bus and a 40-pin keyed header, however neither are compatible with each other nor with 16-bit ATA that we know as IDE.

The XT-IDE controller by Andrew Lynch enables 16-bit drives to be used in machines with 8-bit ISA slots, and works with most 16-bit ATA devices, including CompactFlash cards.

ATA drives following ATA-2 spec provide an 8-bit data transfer mode. These drives are few and far between now, but all CompactFlash cards also support this. Hence, the XT-CF adapters I have designed (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_XT-CF_Boards) make use of this to enable use of CompactFlash media in PC/XT class hardware.

Hope that helps!

Chuck(G)
May 27th, 2014, 07:53 AM
ATA drives following ATA-2 spec provide an 8-bit data transfer mode. These drives are few and far between now, but all CompactFlash cards also support this. Hence, the XT-CF adapters I have designed (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_XT-CF_Boards) make use of this to enable use of CompactFlash media in PC/XT class hardware.

Just to reinforce a point that James made--even if you were to use a ATA-to-CF adapter, there's the problem that an XTIDE (XTA) interface may well not be compatible with a CF card on a register basis. Said interface is modeled after the Xebec 8-bit MFM controller and not the WD MFM controller used for later systems.

In short, it all depends upon exactly what you have.

Phil Saunders
May 27th, 2014, 09:31 AM
OK guys - wow - so much for the yes or no I was hoping for! :D

I have an Acculogic S-IDE 1 controller connected to a dead WD93044-x drive. I could obviously replace the drive - IF I could find one. I can't - at least not at a sensible price, and the drives weren't great in the first place.

I was hoping to connect a CF adapter to the controller, but one of those new XT-CF cards sounds like a better idea.

I've googled the XT-IDE board from Andrew Lynch too - never knew it existed - that would be the best solution in terms of future proofing - but I really don't think I need hundreds of GB on an XT :D

Is ATA-2 the same as what they used to call 'Fast ATA' ? I have a Fujitsu drive somewhere that claims to be Fast ATA and it dates from around 1992 I think.

Looks like I have a few options - I have 5 of these machines, including one with some strange problems - but a least I should be able to get them to a useable state. Even back then, floppy-only was a pain.

pearce_jj
May 27th, 2014, 10:07 AM
Well, according to this thread (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?14030-Acculogic-side-1-16) you might just be in luck. Try hooking up a CompactFlash card - you will almost certainly need to re-created the MBR using either FDISK /MBR (DOS 5 or later) or my wipedisk utility (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/WipeDisk) in order to boot from it.

I'm not sure about the Fast ATA marking. It could refer to anything over the original data rate, so you'd need to look at the drive data sheet (or try a feature set command and see what happens).

Stone
May 27th, 2014, 10:13 AM
Is ATA-2 the same as what they used to call 'Fast ATA' ? I have a Fujitsu drive somewhere that claims to be Fast ATA and it dates from around 1992 I think.Yes...

•ATA-2: Supports faster PIO modes (3 and 4) and multiword DMA modes (1 and 2). Also supports logical block addressing (LBA) and block transfers. ATA-2 is marketed as Fast ATA and Enhanced IDE (EIDE).

Phil Saunders
May 27th, 2014, 10:53 AM
Thanks guys - I'll try it - but my card isn't a Acculogic side-1/16 - mine is just a plain Acculogic side-1 (I assume the /16 part refers to the AT version?)

I'll give it a go - even if it fries the CF card they're cheap enough!

In anticipation of sorting it one way of the other (even if I need the XT-CF card) - I've just ordered 5 IDE to CF adapters mounted on an expansion slot bracket - £9.95 delivered for all 5. Must be just about the neatest solution possible!