PDA

View Full Version : 720Kb 5.25" floppys



cruising
July 31st, 2014, 11:36 AM
So, i bought some fresh new non old stock floppys, i remembered that the site said "flippable", so they look the same on both sides, cutout for the protection and the little circle hole near the center. So i made a test....

I copied 1 file to the floppy, and entered "dir" and saw the file, then i flipped side and did the same, no file, i formated the floppy and had 360kb formated and then flipped it back and still did see the file.

I wanted to test it further, so i copied 1 side full, flipped the floppy and copied that side full. flipped the disk again and saw the same files i copied to that side, flipped again and saw the files i coped to that side.

so, that must mean that these floppys is 720Kb with 360Kb on each side, or else i would not be able to fill both sides with files.
Or am i wrong?

Chuck(G)
July 31st, 2014, 11:44 AM
You didn't supply essential information. For example, what drive did you use to format and test them?

The idea behind "flippies" goes back a long way to the time when single-sided drives were common. (It took a bit of time for double-sided drives to get the bugs worked out of them, so SS was the standard). A lot of DIY people would simply add the notch and index hole on the other side and double the capacity.

The same also applied to 8" floppies. After double-sided drives became more or less standard, the "flippies" quickly vanished.

If you used a 360K drive to format these, you only got 360K worth of storage, not 720K.

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 11:50 AM
You didn't supply essential information. For example, what drive did you use to format and test them?

The idea behind "flippies" goes back a long way to the time when single-sided drives were common. (It took a bit of time for double-sided drives to get the bugs worked out of them, so SS was the standard). A lot of DIY people would simply add the notch and index hole on the other side and double the capacity.

The same also applied to 8" floppies. After double-sided drives became more or less standard, the "flippies" quickly vanished.


If you used a 360K drive to format these, you only got 360K worth of storage, not 720K.

i use teac 360K drives, and if i then cant get more then 360K why can i format 362K on both sides? even if i copy 1 file to one of the sides and then flip the disk and format it to 362K the files is still on the other side. i can even label each side, confusing here lol.

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 12:13 PM
It sounds like you have an 80 track drive (not a 360KB) and one of it's heads is clogged - so it's formatting in 80 track mode (720K) but only one side is reading, so it turns back in to ~360KB per side. I'd double check that 362K, I'm going to guess it's 368,640 bytes and there was a few bad sectors. Remembering 1K = 1024 bytes.

A 40 track 360KB drive can not format 360KB per side - no matter what media you put in it.

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 12:27 PM
It sounds like you have an 80 track drive (not a 360KB) and one of it's heads is clogged - so it's formatting in 80 track mode (720K) but only one side is reading, so it turns back in to ~360KB per side. I doubt it's 362K, I'm going to guess it's 368,640 bytes and there was a few bad sectors. Remembering 1K = 1024 bytes.

In a another topic i posted what drives i bought, and (cant remember name) told me both drives was 360K ones by the numbers and letter on the drive sticker. I only use 1 drive atm and i see when i formating that it format with both head 0 and 1 to 362K 39 tracks. And ImageDisk shows both heads on the same track alawys. im just telling what i see, im not a pro like you guy on this :)

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 12:51 PM
Ahhh - well if it's formatting both sides 39 tracks then my theory is incorrect.
But each time you format tracks 0-39 on head 0 and 1, you should be erasing your old data.

Anywho the media can't perform any magic tricks like this - will be just a case of working out what's going on.

Just one thing check, please try it again and this to time making sure to press CTRL+C at the DOS prompt each time you flip the floppy. It's commonly used as a "break" for batch files, but it's also a disk change notification for DOS. I thought my 5150 was going nutjob when I first got it, then I learned about that key combo. (Just would be good to eliminate this possibility).

Chuck(G)
July 31st, 2014, 12:59 PM
I strongly suspect that if you filled both sides with 360K worth of files and then tried to read each side back, you'd come to a very different conclusion.

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 01:25 PM
Once again, i filled up 1 side so that side only got 133120 bytes free, labeled that side "side 1" flipped side and filled with the same files so i got 133120 bytes free , labeled that side "side 2". Formated side 1, head 0 and 1 formats as normal to 362496 39 tracks + no files when "dir", flipped to side 2 and typed "dir" still files on side 2, formated side 2, head 0 and 1 formated as t should do to 362496 bytes 39 tracks, typed "dir" and all files was gone, still same on side 1.

So i have no idea why i can use bot sides and format 1 side and still keep files on the other side, and as i said, the heads shows the right tracks on both heads on mageDisk.
weird!!

If only 1 head wold work, the drive would format 180k (one side), bc that was what my tandon did when one head stopped to work because of a lose cable.

EDIT: however.. if i format side 1 only as in the normal side you put the disk in the drive and use SD-Speed Disk, then it can read and show the status of the disk, if i then flip to side 2 and use the SD-Speed again, then it cant read the root directory of the floppy, so i have no idea whats going on lol

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 01:44 PM
As Chuck mentioned, I think you'll run in to issues when you try and get that data back.
I have a feeling Head 1 is able to read, but not write.

Have you tried recovering/reading the data back?

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 01:50 PM
As Chuck mentioned, I think you'll run in to issues when you try and get that data back.
I have a feeling Head 1 is able to read, but not write.

Have you tried recovering/reading the data back?

if only head 1 is able to read, shouldnt head 2 only write 180k to the floppy?
no i have not tried that, maybe i should do that also

krebizfan
July 31st, 2014, 01:55 PM
Have you tried comparing the files after writing both the single sided-disk and the double sided flipped disk? I suspect that some of the tracks will wind up being overwritten while other tracks are offset enough to be readable. I remember reading a web site that devoted a few pages to tricky double formatting of drives where some sectors are defined as bad with one format so that the other format won't be overwritten. Can't find a link to it now but it was amazing the efforts to shoe horn a little extra data on a disk.

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 02:10 PM
Have you tried comparing the files after writing both the single sided-disk and the double sided flipped disk? I suspect that some of the tracks will wind up being overwritten while other tracks are offset enough to be readable. I remember reading a web site that devoted a few pages to tricky double formatting of drives where some sectors are defined as bad with one format so that the other format won't be overwritten. Can't find a link to it now but it was amazing the efforts to shoe horn a little extra data on a disk.

I only have DS-DD disks and no SS disks. I have no idea why it is like this, i should test this with my other floppy drive tomorrow and see if i get the same results, can it be the floppys it self? they are 96tpi or what it is floppys.

Chuck(G)
July 31st, 2014, 02:14 PM
Yeah, that and formatting 10 sectors/track (400K) and even nudging the positioner out a copy of tracks, so you're working with 42 tracks instead of 40. Regardless, on a 48tpi drive you're not going to get more than about 450K on a double-sided disk, much less 720K.

Consider the math: At 300 RPM and a data rate of 250K, the unformatted raw capacity of a track is:

(0.2 sec/revolution * 250000 bit/sec)/(8 bit/byte) = 6,250 bytes per track, raw capacity.

In practice, sectoring the disk, applying address marks, CRCs, and inter-field gaps, drops this to about 5,000 bytes/track.

To be certain, there are ways of getting more out of a disk, but all involve changes to the drive. (e.g. record at a higher data rate (HD); higher radial density (e.g. 192 tpi on a Drivetec).

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 02:14 PM
if only head 1 is able to read, shouldnt head 2 only write 180k to the floppy?
no i have not tried that, maybe i should do that also

I usually call them head 0 and head 1 (rather than head 1 & 2) but I realized my theory was likely wrong anyway.

Try retrieving the data from both sides and see if one side fails. What I think you have - is each side has it's own file allocation table (since it's probably only using one sector, it wouldn't jump sides) - but only the side you last formatted/wrote-to will actually work. So you type DIR, you see your stuff, but it might not actually be there.

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 02:16 PM
I only have DS-DD disks and no SS disks. I have no idea why it is like this, i should test this with my other floppy drive tomorrow and see if i get the same results, can it be the floppys it self? they are 96tpi or what it is floppys.

The floppies are just a piece of magnetic material shoved in to a plastic outer. They have no smarts.
96tpi just means the quality is high enough that you can format 80 tracks on them if you instructed the computer to do so, and had the correct type of drive. Since you're only formatting tracks 0-39 we know this is not the case.

Stone
July 31st, 2014, 02:23 PM
Just so we'll know exactly what we're dealing with here... what's the brand name and other identifying information on the box these disks came in? How can we make a reasonable suggestion if we don't really know what the media actually is?

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 02:32 PM
Yeah, that and formatting 10 sectors/track (400K) and even nudging the positioner out a copy of tracks, so you're working with 42 tracks instead of 40. Regardless, on a 48tpi drive you're not going to get more than about 450K on a double-sided disk, much less 720K.

Consider the math: At 300 RPM and a data rate of 250K, the unformatted raw capacity of a track is:

(0.2 sec/revolution * 250000 bit/sec)/(8 bit/byte) = 6,250 bytes per track, raw capacity.

In practice, sectoring the disk, applying address marks, CRCs, and inter-field gaps, drops this to about 5,000 bytes/track.

To be certain, there are ways of getting more out of a disk, but all involve changes to the drive. (e.g. record at a higher data rate (HD); higher radial density (e.g. 192 tpi on a Drivetec).

That math was like chinese for me :P but i get what you mean, and ur right!


I usually call them head 0 and head 1 (rather than head 1 & 2) but I realized my theory was likely wrong anyway.

Try retrieving the data from both sides and see if one side fails. What I think you have - is each side has it's own file allocation table (since it's probably only using one sector, it wouldn't jump sides) - but only the side you last formatted/wrote-to will actually work. So you type DIR, you see your stuff, but it might not actually be there.

I copied a chess game on bot sides, i could only start the game from the latest side i formated and copied files to, so you guys are 100% right, again :D

EDIT: @stone they where bulked and there is no brand on them, there was even not any labels with them, so i cant tell.

JDallas
July 31st, 2014, 02:40 PM
An interesting thing about flippies-gone-wild is that if you format the flippy as a DS disk accidently and then flip and try to read a track, all the magnetic data is backwards and thus completely unreadable as a formated track. It you then format that side as Single side format, your original other side now only got one side of every cylinder and is thus a mess.

The permutations of floppy formatting chaos are impressive given the right beverages.

Stone
July 31st, 2014, 02:47 PM
So, why do you think that they are valid 720K rated disks?

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 02:58 PM
So, why do you think that they are valid 720K rated disks?

read the first post, bc i could put 360k of files on both sides, but as i understand now, that was just a visual "bug" or how to say, only files on the latest formated side did work.

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 03:00 PM
So, why do you think that they are valid 720K rated disks?
They were sold to him as "DD 96tpi" but unbranded - there was a thread a while back. I was a bit dubious that they could actually be HD, but they seem to be working fine.

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 03:06 PM
They were sold to him as "DD 96tpi" but unbranded - there was a thread a while back. I was a bit dubious that they could actually be HD, but they seem to be working fine.

Yes they work fine and do not failing to read at any time while using them as you should do, and formats perfectly as 360k floppies.

krebizfan
July 31st, 2014, 03:07 PM
I could be wrong but I thought many later 48 tpi diskettes were manufactured with the same cookies as the 96 tpi diskettes.

To truly have fun with 96 tpi diskettes, get a DEC RX-50 which has two single sided quad density drives inside one mounting. 400 kB per side, 2 floppies inside, and both floppies could be manually flipped for a total of 1.6 MB.

Chuck(G)
July 31st, 2014, 03:14 PM
Yup. I got it straight from Dysan tech support way back when. Supposedly the 96 tpi cookies are verified at 96 tpi rather than 48, but that only applies to pre-formatted floppies. Same goes for 100 tpi floppies.

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 03:17 PM
I could be wrong but I thought many later 48 tpi diskettes were manufactured with the same cookies as the 96 tpi diskettes.

To truly have fun with 96 tpi diskettes, get a DEC RX-50 which has two single sided quad density drives inside one mounting. 400 kB per side, 2 floppies inside, and both floppies could be manually flipped for a total of 1.6 MB.

DEC RX-50 drives cost a lot i see :)

SomeGuy
July 31st, 2014, 03:35 PM
What is happening here is that the tracks on a 5.25" floppy disk for each side are not right on top of each other. The second head is a little further back. If you format a flippy disk as double-sided, flip it over and format the other side, the first track on the first side is not overwritten. But everything else *IS*.

Under DOS this makes the disk look like it is still formatted until you try to read anything from it.

The 96TPI rating is not really relevant here. What that means (assuming this is not high density) is if you had used a 1.2mb drive or an "oddball" 96TPI low density drive, it should reliably format using 80 thinner tracks instead of 40. That would give you a total amount of storage around 720k. But again, that would already be using both sides, so you couldn't use it a as "flippy". (technically you could indeed format a flippy as 80 tracks, 9 sectors, single sided in a 1.2mb drive for 360k on each side, but that would be weird.)

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 03:38 PM
Since i dont want to make a new thread, is asking here, i use a HDD for booting and store files. These HDDs will not last forever(even if they have survived like 4-5 generation of HDDs already) and will some day crash, and they will get harder and harder to get and some day all consumed, same will happen with the old floppies we use. What then?

Todays HDDs last like 5 to max 10 years, mine have last around 30 years!

EDIT: @SomeGuy: Your explanation about the tracks make it all clear for me, now i understand why it acts like this, thanks for the input!

Stone
July 31st, 2014, 03:45 PM
They were sold to him as "DD 96tpi" but unbranded...Hey, I've got a nice bridge for sale -- wanna buy it? :-)

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 05:50 PM
Since i dont want to make a new thread, is asking here, i use a HDD for booting and store files. These HDDs will not last forever(even if they have survived like 4-5 generation of HDDs already) and will some day crash, and they will get harder and harder to get and some day all consumed, same will happen with the old floppies we use. What then?

Todays HDDs last like 5 to max 10 years, mine have last around 30 years!

XT-IDE (http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/XT_IDE_disk_controller) and XT-CF (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/XT-CF-lite) right now, but as demand increases (which it will over time) there will likely be even more new boards developed.


Hey, I've got a nice bridge for sale -- wanna buy it? :-)
3 please!

cruising
July 31st, 2014, 06:08 PM
i cant solder tiny things like that, all fail boards would probably cost me more then just buy a HDD lol :P

SpidersWeb
July 31st, 2014, 07:00 PM
Well you don't want to build one right now :) but that's where the future is.
I found with SMD kits, solder paste and running a soldering iron down the pins works a treat. Actually pretty cool watching blue paste magically turn in to shiny solder and grab on!

Chuck(G)
July 31st, 2014, 07:17 PM
The originals were through-hole versions and considerably easier to assemble. Are there any more of those around?

Malc
August 1st, 2014, 12:30 AM
According to here (http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/page/35044530/PCB%20Inventory) Todd ( bonedaddy ) has some R2 XT-IDE boards left, Note: these are bare PCB's, You will need to source the parts and build yourself. And of course there's also the Lo-Tech (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/shop/) Boards like the Isa Compact Flash board.

carlsson
August 1st, 2014, 12:42 AM
Somewhere I've got two original XT-IDE's. I assembled them with a kit of parts, but I didn't get either to work. The first one booted up but would not detect any hard drive, the second one didn't even result in a boot message. I am fully confident it is due to poor soldering job from my side, but I haven't put any effort in trouble shooting those. The one that boots but doesn't detect drives might be the easier to fix.

JDallas
August 1st, 2014, 07:18 AM
...These HDDs will not last forever...will some day crash...same will happen with the old floppies...What then?

PC HDD ANSWER:
For early PCs, the system needs a retro interface to SATA drives. SATA can be used in a default IDE protocol which really simplifies things. Just a matter of designing an IDE board for early PCs with an intelligent controller to make peace between the two sides. You won't get all the speed advantages of SATA because an intelligent controller will have to buffer and spoon-feed the early PC. Note you likely won't be able to access the complete modern SATA drive's capacity, but you could expand the amount used with a logical drive mapping such as C:,D:... Z:. While we might not be able to use that much data storage, its offensive not to be able to access everything you've bought. Solution, SATA logical banking to reuse some of the C:-Z: drive names.

CP/M HDD ANSWER:
HDD for non-PC systems: An interface to SATA drives can be designed for the CP/M era but you won't be able to access Terabytes of storage through a 64K page; it might take you a week to key in all the multiples of remapped drive names. You won't get all the speed advantages of SATA because an intelligent controller will have to buffer and spoon-feed the CP/M system.
My thinking is to make such a SATA drive a shared external so that can improve the use of the drive by allowing your other non-PC systems access it via an external shared comm link like cheaper RS-422/485; not RS422 direct... hiddon on the other side of the fake-floppy drive (concept similar to a storage drive on ethernet). The advantage here is if you have three systems, you don't have to buy 3 SATA drives (no one is that dedicated to CP/M). As these CP/M systems are all so unique, my solution is to go for the common high-speed interface, the floppy cable. A floppy emulator (I prefer the less pretentious term "Fake Floppy" drive) is really the ideal way to tap into non PC, CP/M era computers. But forget that floppy counter interface (that's poorly thought out). Technically you can hang anything on the other side of a fake-floppy (including universal Floppy reading drives). SCSI interfacers won't like that but the floppy interface serves the greater community... maybe SCSI and more unique solutions could be a later variant.

CP/M FLOPPY ANSWER:
This typically requires something (1) to read old floppies, recovering everything possible (instead of PASS/FAIL), (2) to store images on modern computers for storage on HDD/DVD/CD/USB/CF, (3) to recreate a new floppy in any format to use or store, (4) to read useful transportable media like CF/USB.Mem/uSD/ as if it were your boot floppy, (5) maintain a RomDrive on your floppy cable to access you entire collection of floppy disks (why wear-out your floppies). Note that a cost effective NAND Flash rom, 1GBYTE (bytewide) single chip is ~$6 in production but it takes an intelligent controller to better access it, hence a fake floppy solution.
Thats more easy than it sounds: That means you can store all the information from your old floppies in one small solid state card.
To read floppies universally, I hear there are several groups addressing this various ways. I decided to do my own as a fake floppy that emulates a floppy drive upstream to the system, but has its own downstream floppy controller interface (using no FDC chip). Initially that lets you read and clone all the magnetic data from the floppy and store or copy it. It can also be used to reverse the process to make a new perfect clone of the floppy from storage. Note that this technique doesn't need to know anything about the format or organization of data/sectors/skew/interleave/density etc. Technically this would be able to clone any drive, even if its not FM/MFM (Apple and Commodore used some data packing formats on floppies that this could clone to an new floppy without knowing the format involved, conceptionally even variable track speeds could be copied).
I don't yet know about hard-sector cloning, that technically is more complex to this sort of design but as hard sectored is a small family, it should just be a software module that responds to the characteristic number of index pulses (index+sector) and runs accordingly. As hard sector is a small piece of the pie, I'll look at it last.

An interesting thing I'm looking at in the early stage is a fake floppy design that allows you to read any physical floppy in a different side/density/sector format behind the fake-floppy and have the fake floppy reformat that data into the floppy format that the system (CP/M computer) reads; i.e. you don't have to change you CP/M floppy definitions. If all you read and write is 40 track SSSD floppies, the fake floppy will read a 8in DSDD downstream and LIE to your CP/M and give you files in SSSD or whatever you use. But as floppies are a dying media, this is more WAY COOL than useful. :)

bonedaddy
August 1st, 2014, 08:18 AM
According to here (http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/page/35044530/PCB%20Inventory) Todd ( bonedaddy ) has some R2 XT-IDE boards left, Note: these are bare PCB's, You will need to source the parts and build yourself. And of course there's also the Lo-Tech (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/shop/) Boards like the Isa Compact Flash board.

Hi, Yes, I have XT-IDE V2 bare boards available. The boards are $12 each plus $5.95 for shipping in the US. I also have most of Sergey's ISA bare boards available (http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects) and it's the same shipping cost for multiple boards. PM or email me at tsg at bonedaddy.net.

Todd

cruising
August 1st, 2014, 08:39 AM
Somewhere I've got two original XT-IDE's. I assembled them with a kit of parts, but I didn't get either to work. The first one booted up but would not detect any hard drive, the second one didn't even result in a boot message. I am fully confident it is due to poor soldering job from my side, but I haven't put any effort in trouble shooting those. The one that boots but doesn't detect drives might be the easier to fix.

If you dont have the right equipments and skills (like me), you would probably do more damage then good :P

@jDallas. i rather use my old HDD and my old FDD then installing new hardware (just for now). But when the time comes i would rather then use a sata drive as you say and maybe a FC card as a "floppy"

But old floppys is WAY cooler and feels more right to use for these old systems :)

cruising
August 2nd, 2014, 04:38 PM
There must still be lot of them out there, take a look
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/78280/12052035

Chuck(G)
August 2nd, 2014, 04:49 PM
What's "when the time comes?"

Hard drives can work for a very long time--I still have an ST506 that works just fine (not to mention an SA4000).

I like the CF adapters because they're convenient. I even have a few that work in systems with a regular IDE interface, but mount the adapter on a bracket, so you can change "hard drives" without even opening up the machine.

While a 4GB CF card may seem small today, in terms of what was available for XTs, it's enormous, gigantic--you will not fill it up.

cruising
August 2nd, 2014, 05:01 PM
What's "when the time comes?"

Hard drives can work for a very long time--I still have an ST506 that works just fine (not to mention an SA4000).

I like the CF adapters because they're convenient. I even have a few that work in systems with a regular IDE interface, but mount the adapter on a bracket, so you can change "hard drives" without even opening up the machine.

While a 4GB CF card may seem small today, in terms of what was available for XTs, it's enormous, gigantic--you will not fill it up.

No "today"

Yes i will get one also when i can, since you need to assembly it by your self. Me and soldering = bad idea lol

Chuck(G)
August 2nd, 2014, 05:12 PM
Is there some reason that you cannot improve your technique by practicing (i.e. physical impediment)?

3pcedev
August 2nd, 2014, 05:14 PM
Lo-tech will assemble their XT-IDE compactflash board for you for an additional charge. The kit costs 16GBP and the assembly costs an additional 19GBP. The only other thing you need to buy is an IDE to CF adaptor from eBay (< $10USD).

The Lo-tech board has about 5 SMT componants on it; all of which are optional (necessary if you want to run in slot 8, or use the LED indicator). It worked fine with them missing; however afterwards I soldered these onto the board with nothing but a soldering iron and normal solder (no flux or paste). It wasn't easy but its certainly possible.

cruising
August 2nd, 2014, 05:18 PM
Is there some reason that you cannot improve your technique by practicing (i.e. physical impediment)?

If i had something to solder that i then could see if it works, no. I could just take a board and solder some components on it yes, but how would i know i didnt overheat the components or soldered it good enough?

i would love to learn, but the right way :)

cruising
August 2nd, 2014, 05:22 PM
Lo-tech will assemble their XT-IDE compactflash board for you for an additional charge. The kit costs 16GBP and the assembly costs an additional 19GBP. The only other thing you need to buy is an IDE to CF adaptor from eBay (< $10USD).

The Lo-tech board has about 5 SMT componants on it; all of which are optional (necessary if you want to run in slot 8, or use the LED indicator). It worked fine with them missing; however afterwards I soldered these onto the board with nothing but a soldering iron and normal solder (no flux or paste). It wasn't easy but its certainly possible.

19GBP sounds like a good deal for me. when it comes to things like this, i want to know what im doing so i dont ruin the board, it do cost money :)

i guess i will solder something like this in the future when i need/have to, i cant escape that :)

Malc
August 2nd, 2014, 11:39 PM
Like Chuck said "practice", Through Hole is much easier than SMT, Find an old board you don't care about and practice de-soldering and soldering back the components, through trial and error you'll find your own technique that works best for you, There are sites on the net on soldering.

pearce_jj
August 2nd, 2014, 11:53 PM
PC HDD ANSWER:
For early PCs, the system needs a retro interface to SATA drives. SATA can be used in a default IDE protocol which really simplifies things. Just a matter of designing an IDE board for early PCs with an intelligent controller to make peace between the two sides.

I've been testing my new 8-bit IDE Adapter (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/new-pcb-8-bit-ide-adapter/) with SATA drives, so far without any problems.

BTW thanks for the positive remarks on the Lo-tech boards on this thread - much appreciated :)

Al Hartman
August 3rd, 2014, 09:15 AM
I've built two Lo-Tech IDE boards for my 5150 XT, and am building the version for the TRS-80 Model III/4. It's VERY easy to do.

I'd recommend using sockets if you're worried about overheating chips. But, if you have a good iron and decent solder, it's not hard to do correctly.

Both of my boards worked the first time without need of debugging.

Chuck(G)
August 3rd, 2014, 10:06 AM
I'll add a caveat if you're going to use a SATA-to-IDE adapter. Research before you buy! There seems to be an epidemic of adapters that don't work worth a tinker's damn. I've got a couple of those. I understand that the same lousy chip shows up in a few designs, so the problem is endemic.