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Sharkonwheels
September 25th, 2006, 09:25 PM
Anyone ever play with PC-MOS in the early 90's?
I worked at a VAR that was authorized for it, and we installed quite a few of those for MultiUSer DOS setup, especially for Revelation apps, and for RealWorld and Synchronics DOS accounting apps.

I have a few versions, even 5.01, which was near the end for The Software Link, the developer. I think I have a version on a 1.44Mb 3.5" FD, as well.

Anyone know the status? They've been out of business for years...

It WAS a very cool MultiUser DOS-compatible system... and it could co-reside on a disk alongside regular DOS. I remember pushing the Remote Access BBS developers to allow for compatibility with it, and they DID add it..this was around '90-'93 or so....

I have the tech manuals, the sofware manuals, the internal-use-only tech manual, etc...


Tony

SwedaGuy
February 26th, 2007, 10:31 AM
I really liked PC-MOS and used it on my first 386, allowing me to drive a couple of dumb terminals...

I'm thinking that it might be useful for a current project, but I'm concerned about overcoming HDD size limitations and lack of support for 3.5" FDs.

I have several copies, mostly 5-user, I think there is one 25-user in the bunch, but all I have is the installation/user's guide, so I don't know if I've got enough info to overcome the issues mentioned above.

It's too bad they are not still around, as this would make a nice, compact, ROMable OS.

For this task, I need to have three tasks running, to emulate 3 individual Intel 8085 processors, as well as a dumb terminal to act as a kind of Monitor program (watch instruction execution and allow insertion of comments in the code). Additionally, I need to run some specific serial peripherals: a 128-key matrix keyboard, a 2x20 LCD Display and a receipt/journal/slip printer. The peripherals need to run in one of the tasks only.

I'm also looking at a product called VMIX which is a DOS extension. It has more peripheral support, but I would sure like to use this PC-MOS once more, just for "old times" sake...

Druid6900
February 26th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Yup,

Used it, sold it and even have an old AT Gizmo card (from the 286 redition) sitting right here in a box of stuff that's going on my site.

Considering the technology of the time, it was a pretty slick system.

SwedaGuy
February 27th, 2007, 07:41 AM
I sent about a dozen of those gizmo cards to the tech recycler a year or so ago--every single one of them had developed a problem.

I even had one that I pulled out of one operating machine and put it into another to test the other, and the card went out. Flaky hardware after a while, I guess.

But yes, a pretty slick system once it's all configured...We inherited this stuff from a friend of ours that got out of the software business. He had used PC-MOS back in the day for medical office software he was selling. He also used it for an MLS style property database for a brief time in the late 80s.

Billyray
April 7th, 2007, 08:53 AM
I just found this thread today while searching the web for "PC-MOS" I've resurrected my old 386 PC with 2MB of RAM, Dual booting 60MB HDD that has 31MB going to DOS 3.30 and 32MB going to PC-MOS 4.0 PC-MOS is already setup for 3 users (including the console) and 1 Serial Printer. Amazingly this computer still works fine, so I just replaced the power supply fan, which was starting to whine, and added a new computer clock battery. Now I'm thinking about upgrading the monochrome monitor to an EGA monitor I have laying about. I'll have to get an old EGA card. I don't know if it's hard to find drivers for it. This same computer uses the Stargate 8 serial port addon. The one terminal that I have that connects to it, is a Link PCTerm. It still works good too, but the up arrow on the keyboard is a little iffy.

I used to use this setup to test a mulituser Clipper/dbase application I sold back in the 80's-90's to paging companies (remember them?) Anyhoo, now its just an antique curiosity, but I'm having fun with it! :-D

Terry Yager
April 7th, 2007, 12:28 PM
I've got a couple of 'extra' EGA cards. Pm if ya want one.

--T

Billyray
April 7th, 2007, 12:39 PM
pm sent! :-D

SwedaGuy
April 9th, 2007, 08:51 AM
I still think PC-MOS is dynamite...of course, I get excited any time I see a dumb terminal running off a PC.

I think we've decided to adopt SCO unix for the application I mentioned above, so I'll put PC-MOS back on the shelf and wait for a good time to dust it off again...

Billyray
April 16th, 2007, 08:18 AM
I got a picture today. I had to disable the autoexec.bat which sets up all the work spaces to keep the screen from whizzing away.

http://71.18.109.240/386machine.jpg

SwedaGuy
April 20th, 2007, 02:37 PM
I swear that brings a tear to my eyes...

Isn't it amazing how much we could do with (comparatively) so little hardware? Today a gigahertz pentium running XP can barely keep one person working!

I one time I had a couple of long tables with the computer, four terminals and a couple of printers set up. This was years ago, of course...it was nifty to show off when people stopped by the house...

Druid6900
April 20th, 2007, 08:44 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean, SwedaGuy.

We used to sell for the SoftWare Link here in Canada and I loved installing a PC-MOS system just to see the looks on the people's faces when you could set them up a damn powerful multi-user system that you could actually carry into the building.

I still have a working PC-MOS 286 interface card right here on my desk. It's the one where you had to take the PLCC 286 out of the socket, run the socket adapter to the board and put the processor on the AT-Gizmo card.
I don't have a 286 board with that kind of processor, or the software, but, it's a little piece of MU history all the same.

SwedaGuy
April 23rd, 2007, 08:28 AM
Nifty little artifact there...I'll keep you in mind if I ever come across a MB I think is compatible.

I really liked that system...sometimes the application software we put on it wasn't everything we hoped it would be, but the OS never disappointed.

Do you remember the terminal emulator TSL sold with that? It ran on a PC under regular DOS to access PC-MOS just like a dumb terminal. It had other features, though, like drive mapping I think. It's been a long time, but I recall being able to have a very well-rounded system for comparatively little money.

Sharkonwheels
May 16th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Man - I have a TON of theat stuff in my garage.
Still got the tech ref guide, which was HARD to squeeze out of them. Later, it became RCA - Robertson Caruso and Associates (Gary Robertson and Julie Caruso)
Got a few copies of I think 5.0 or so...I;d have to check.

TSL was good stuff back then - pair it up with a Maxpeed serial board, and it worked like a charm! I installed at least 3-4 dozen sites in S. Florida, most for running RealWorld/Synchronics accounting systems

Sweda: you're referring to what TSL called "PC Emulink".
This was great, because it also drove a modem. I set up a few multi-location businesses, where the main computer was in one location, and the satellite stores just dialed in with PC Emulink, and were in.

OK - just checked, and it's PC-MOS 5.01 UPD6 I have 33-user, and I think 9-user versions, and yes, with the activation codes.
Somewhere, I also have LanLink, LanLink for Windows, and the Novell driver for PC-MOS - this was for old-school Novell, where you had to "gen" a client.
It was GREAT! Novell saw it as 1 connection, but I seem to remember you could have *ALL* MOS users logged in and using Novell. Novell did *NOT* like that concept!

I think I even have an image of a 1.44M floppy also... ;)

Security was wierd, with it's "partitioning" scheme, but it was absolutely FANTASTIC in it's day, and was WAY more user friendly than *nix. I think DIrectAccess 5 supported running it on PC-MOS (DA5 was a menuing system). I also assisted the guys with RemoteAccess (I thin it was RA), the BBS, get it compatible for multi-user BBS, and it worked great for that as well!


Tony

Sharkonwheels
May 16th, 2007, 11:32 PM
I just found this thread today while searching the web for "PC-MOS" I've resurrected my old 386 PC with 2MB of RAM, Dual booting 60MB HDD that has 31MB going to DOS 3.30 and 32MB going to PC-MOS 4.0 PC-MOS is already setup for 3 users (including the console) and 1 Serial Printer. Amazingly this computer still works fine, so I just replaced the power supply fan, which was starting to whine, and added a new computer clock battery. Now I'm thinking about upgrading the monochrome monitor to an EGA monitor I have laying about. I'll have to get an old EGA card. I don't know if it's hard to find drivers for it. This same computer uses the Stargate 8 serial port addon. The one terminal that I have that connects to it, is a Link PCTerm. It still works good too, but the up arrow on the keyboard is a little iffy.

I used to use this setup to test a mulituser Clipper/dbase application I sold back in the 80's-90's to paging companies (remember them?) Anyhoo, now its just an antique curiosity, but I'm having fun with it! :-D

Depending on how the system is configured, if you upgrade it to EGA, you may have to change the Task settings, if you have any auto-starting tasks. EGA changes the memory model, at least how PC-MOS sees it. It's all fuzzy now, but it mya or may not affect you.

Tony

Sharkonwheels
May 16th, 2007, 11:40 PM
One last note ( I REALLY mean it!)

Has anyone gotten PC-MOS to work in any of the VM enviroments?
I;ve tried several VMWare's, MS Virtual PC and Virtual Server, and nothing.
Locks up right after the logo (i think?)

I was thinking of trying Qemu with it...


Tony

SwedaGuy
May 17th, 2007, 10:08 AM
I'd bet that's a no-go on the VM idea. I could be wrong, but because of the way MOS has to manage the cpu directly, I don't believe a VM engine would be able to handle the demands of the OS.

I tried to install one of my copies last weekend, but apparently one of the disks in the set is bad. We ended up going with Unix for our little project, but I sure wish the PC-MOS had worked. I know I've got at least one more version of 3.x and probably a version of 4.x somewhere, I just can't put my finger on them at the moment.

Don't get rid of any of that stuff...if you find at some point that you can't keep it, let me know. I can add it to my already sizeable collection of documents and software.

Sharkonwheels
May 17th, 2007, 11:57 AM
Oh -it's small,so I have space ;)

I can scan in the internal-use tech/support manual if you wish.

I can also email you a .ZIP'd image of the floppy. This will ne 5.01 UPD6
33-user, and I have the activation code.

send me a PM with your email addy, and I'll email you the stuff.

Does anyone have a copy of their FTP site, what was in there in the end?
They had updated drivers, patches, etc...


Tony

SwedaGuy
May 18th, 2007, 03:05 PM
Thanks, I sent a PM in your direction!

Sharkonwheels
May 18th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Sent an email to ya, with some goodies attached.

;)


Tony

Billyray
May 25th, 2007, 09:49 AM
Depending on how the system is configured, if you upgrade it to EGA, you may have to change the Task settings, if you have any auto-starting tasks. EGA changes the memory model, at least how PC-MOS sees it. It's all fuzzy now, but it mya or may not affect you.

Tony

Thanks for the reminder. I got the EGA card, but then realized the old color monitor I have is VGA, so for now I'm just sticking with the amber monochrome monitor. Actually I put that baby back into storage, now that it has its new battery. :)

Sharkonwheels
May 25th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Monochrome, as I recall, gives the MOST amount of available RAM per task, if I'm not mistaken. CGA is next in line.

The technical manual I will be scanning in this weekend. It's the PC-MOS Troubleshooting Guide, subtitled "Does you PC-MOS machine..."
Anyone happen to have, or have seen, a copy of the Software Link ftp site anywhere?
Also, anyone got a MaxSpeed SS4 or SS8?

Tony

Sharkonwheels
May 28th, 2007, 02:29 AM
You may also want to try to find a copy of Citrix Multiuser, or even Citrix WinView (2.3 or later - build 325. last build we ever did, I believe, was 2.347)
for your project.

I have a copy of Citrix Multiuser unlimited, but it;s still shrinkwrapped-sealed, and staying that way ;) I have to look around and see if I still have a WinView build around. I MAY have a set of 2.347 disks, along with the TCPIP for WInView, and the LanLink and IPLink clients (ICA 1.0 and/or 2.0 I think)

What happened to the others, like IGC's VM/386? I still have a 5.25" demo diskette of VM/386 V1.21 in the case where I have the PC-MOS disks.
EDIT: never mind - igcinc.com - they still live!!!

BTW...I have 5,9, and 33-user PC-MOS 5.01 UP6 variants.


Tony

Sharkonwheels
June 5th, 2007, 09:28 PM
You know.

It's a danged shame when:
Virtual PC
Virtual Server
VMWare Server
VMWare Player
VMWare Workstation
VMWare GSX

Can't boot PC-MOS with the $386.sys memory driver loaded (lockup on driver load)

But Qemu, the freebie, no-cost, open-source Virtual Machine application can!!

That's just.......Sad.

However, the keyboard is problematic...you frequently have to type a key twice to get it to actually register.


Tony

Vlad
June 6th, 2007, 07:55 AM
I use an open source program that is very smiler to VMware's stuff. Ever hear of Innotek Virtual Box? http://www.virtualbox.org/

Its open source and runs on both windows and *NIX I've had luck getting MS-DOS 3.x IBM DOS 5 and other non vintage OS's to run fine with it. Worth a look if you can't have the real deal.

-Vlad

Sharkonwheels
June 6th, 2007, 10:26 AM
Worth a look if you can't have the real deal.

-Vlad

Oh, I have the real deal, they just don't work!! :crazy:

Thanks for the link - I'll check it out. I LOVE the freebie ones because it's cool to see what people can do. I'm pretty impressed with Qemu. FOund out about it a few years ago, while trying out ReactOS. They put in their distribution archive a Qemu virtual hard disk with ReactOS, as well as Qemu, and I was pretty impressed. It's only gotten better!


Tony

Schedar
June 21st, 2007, 02:05 AM
Hello Sharkonwheels!

I have an old pc runing PC-MOS 4.1 until now. the HDD is died, and I do not have the disks to install PC-MOS back. I saw in this forum, you have the install disk, can you e-mail me the images as well, please?

I am using an old program from Andrew which is running only under PC-MOS.

Thank you very much,

Schedar.

lhawk
June 30th, 2007, 03:37 AM
I have a working (well mostly) PC-MOS POS System but the wyse terminal that was the second till has given up.

I have tried some terminal emulators through the serial connection (PCTerm), some work partially but will not show the screen. The quote below mentions "PC Emulink" does anyone have a copy of this or know of anything else that I could try

Thanks.



[QUOTE=Sharkonwheels;42434]

Sweda: you're referring to what TSL called "PC Emulink".
This was great, because it also drove a modem. I set up a few multi-location businesses, where the main computer was in one location, and the satellite stores just dialed in with PC Emulink, and were in.

OK - just checked, and it's PC-MOS 5.01 UPD6 I have 33-user, and I think 9-user versions, and yes, with the activation codes.
Somewhere, I also have LanLink, LanLink for Windows, and the Novell driver for PC-MOS - this was for old-school Novell, where you had to "gen" a client.
It was GREAT! Novell saw it as 1 connection, but I seem to remember you could have *ALL* MOS users logged in and using Novell. Novell did *NOT* like that concept!

SwedaGuy
July 2nd, 2007, 08:12 AM
There are usually a variety of Wyse terminals available on ebay. What model are you looking for? I would guess a 60...

Also, what software are you running on your system. You mentioned the "till" so I assume it's a retail application...

Sharkonwheels
July 2nd, 2007, 10:10 AM
IHawk - gonna have to PM me your email address.
As for terminals, adding to Sweda's list, I;ve always been REALLY partial to Link MC2's and MC5's. Of course, they were bought up by Wyse a LOOOOOONG time ago... Just make sure you acquire a terminal *WITH* a keyboard, and a PCTerm keyboard, at that.


Tony

MOSdev
July 27th, 2007, 11:33 AM
Well, well, well, ....really takes me back. I'm one of the original PC-MOS designers and developers!! Sooo funny to see people are still using my old programs. I may be able to help some of you out - I've been wanting to play around with that old stuff. I think I even still have, ah hem, source code (yikes!). It's not the most recent version though since I got fired for objecting to the moron founders destroying the company ;) Hope to hear from you guys!

Take care.

Terry Yager
July 27th, 2007, 07:59 PM
Hey, just by coincidence, while going thru a huge box fulla floppies today, I kicked-up an ol' 5-user copy of PC-MOS 386. I set it aside to play with in the near future (it's been awhile, but at the computer store, we used it as the weapon-of-choice in a multi-user OS).

--T

Terry Yager
July 27th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Well, well, well, ....really takes me back. I'm one of the original PC-MOS designers and developers!! Sooo funny to see people are still using my old programs. I may be able to help some of you out - I've been wanting to play around with that old stuff. I think I even still have, ah hem, source code (yikes!). It's not the most recent version though since I got fired for objecting to the moron founders destroying the company ;) Hope to hear from you guys!

Take care.

Designer...? Developer...?? Source code...??? Veeerrryy iiinteeerrreesting...! (I see nothink...NOTHINK...!).
</ Sgt. Schultz mode>

--T

SwedaGuy
July 28th, 2007, 09:25 AM
Source code? That would be really interesting to see...

You certainly had your hands in an interesting product. There are date issues in some areas, but that's really the only reason it couldn't be used today. Actually, with a bit of tweaking, can you imagine how slick that would be on a Pentium 4 with a gig of RAM? You could support hundreds of users...

The product had a lot of promise, I'm sorry it's gone...

Sharkonwheels
August 10th, 2007, 10:22 PM
Well, well, well, ....really takes me back. I'm one of the original PC-MOS designers and developers!! Sooo funny to see people are still using my old programs. I may be able to help some of you out - I've been wanting to play around with that old stuff. I think I even still have, ah hem, source code (yikes!). It's not the most recent version though since I got fired for objecting to the moron founders destroying the company ;) Hope to hear from you guys!

Take care.

THat's interesting...I did PC-MOS from about 1990-1991 until about 1995 or so. I remember when it went from TSL to Robertson Caruso and Associates (is that correct?) and continued installing/supporting it. I forget when the last time I dealt with it on a professional level was. It was around 1994 or 1995 or so.

Would you happen to have a copy of the FTP archives? As I recall, there were some useful patches there. I also need the driver for the MaxSpeed SS4 and SS8 boards.

Tony

MOSdev
September 2nd, 2007, 10:45 AM
Designer...? Developer...?? Source code...??? Veeerrryy iiinteeerrreesting...! (I see nothink...NOTHINK...!).
</ Sgt. Schultz mode>

--T

Wow, another weird connection - Sgt Shultz from Hogans Heros was my cousin....distant, never actually meet him but saw pics of him with other family members and such. I DID, however, meet Col. Klink in the airport once!

LOL

MOSdev
September 2nd, 2007, 10:53 AM
Source code? That would be really interesting to see...

You certainly had your hands in an interesting product. There are date issues in some areas, but that's really the only reason it couldn't be used today. Actually, with a bit of tweaking, can you imagine how slick that would be on a Pentium 4 with a gig of RAM? You could support hundreds of users...

The product had a lot of promise, I'm sorry it's gone...

Yeah, it was a really good time there for a while - too bad the founders crashed and burned it (no, I'm not bitter....F!@#&* MORONS!! ;)

I'll have to get that stuff out and see just what I have and perhaps update a few things on the version I have and see what I can do....

Sharkonwheels
September 2nd, 2007, 02:21 PM
It was a good product - we sold it successfully for POS (using PCEmulink and modems to dial into the master) and store systems with RealWorld / Synchronics accounting systems.

Shame, really...did you go along when it became RCA? Or left after TSL went under?


Tony

Druid6900
September 2nd, 2007, 09:00 PM
Speaking of TSL, I found a Folder today with my invite to the 1986 workshop, a glossy ad for my AT Gizmo card sitting here on my desk, a glossy brochure for LapLink, the current software compatibility list, the hardware compatibility work-around list and some other crap from Brian Smith, Director of Canadian Operations.

Very nostalgic.

Terry Yager
September 3rd, 2007, 01:13 AM
Wow, another weird connection - Sgt Shultz from Hogans Heros was my cousin....distant, never actually meet him but saw pics of him with other family members and such. I DID, however, meet Col. Klink in the airport once!

LOL

I recently read somewhre on the Net that Schultz and Klink were both were Jewish, as were several of the other actors who played the roles of Germans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan's_Heroes

--T.

xamine
November 12th, 2007, 09:09 AM
Speaking of TSL, I found a Folder today with my invite to the 1986 workshop, a glossy ad for my AT Gizmo card sitting here on my desk, a glossy brochure for LapLink, the current software compatibility list, the hardware compatibility work-around list and some other crap from Brian Smith, Director of Canadian Operations.

Very nostalgic.


i just came across my PC MOS technical manual and googled it...ahhhhhh

i attended one of the workshops in Norcross circa 1990/91, as the company i was working for at the time were one of the UK distributors.

Can't find my certificate thou :( ooOH well i still have fond memorys of settin up 25 users on a single PC wid a handful of wyse 60's and PC Emulink :)

MDK
December 11th, 2007, 08:26 PM
I have been useing PC-MOS since the early 90's when we first computerized our business accounting and inventory. Started out with Wyse and Link terminals and Maxspeed SS-8 multi boards. Running SBT source code accounting over Foxpro2.6. on a 486 of some flavour with an MDA video card for more maximum upper memory space. Have been replaceing the dumb terminals with Windows desktops networked for Internet, e-mail, etc., connecting to the MOS system with Emulink terminal software on the Win98 boxes and Tiny-Term/PC-Term emulator for the WinXP boxes to resolve the NTVDM overload problem. We have seven years of sales orders & invoices, about 1500 customer files, and over 100,000inventory items all on (2) 540MB disks!! Have just managed to format some large disks to 2G partitions on a faster computer so am planning to "up-grade" and continue with the PC-MOS for now. Have been playing with USB DOS drivers trying to get a USB HD to work with MOS for fast reliable back-ups.
I see no advantage to put a text based job (inventory/ accounting) on an slower networked based Windows system. Might try fooling around with TSX-32 as it should be faster and can handle more memory, tasks, printers, newer hardware etc. Anyway, I am rambling but have never posted anything to a forum before. I may be able to answer some set-up questions or solve some hardware issues as I have managed to work through most of our problems over the years even though I have no IT training or help.

SwedaGuy
December 12th, 2007, 05:49 AM
Welcome to the forum!

Yes, that is one of those systems that should just about last forever. An associate of mine ran the SBT code under fox for unix, but it was very popular on the PC platform, and still considered a rather robust accounting package.

roeland
January 19th, 2008, 08:35 AM
it's really fun t see that still people are using the product.

I have been develping overseas for TSL/RCA at that time and still have the
full source code on tape in the vault here.

I have asked several times if the source could be published but there seems to be a problem with contracts that exclude this for the time being.
(It's also hard to get ahold of Gary Robertson too)

SwedaGuy
January 19th, 2008, 08:41 AM
And that's really a shame, I know I wouldn't mind getting my fingers on that.

You should probably transfer it from a tape to a CD, as tapes don't age well & the ability to find a machine in the future that can read the tape isn't guaranteed.

That's probably the only old PC O/S that I actually miss. There are situations where I could install that today. But first it needs to be tweaked a bit--large disk support, things like that. Maybe even a telnet terminal interface.

All-in-all though, if you ever figure out you can distribute the code (either licensed or abandonware), you've got people on this board who would be interested. Keep us in mind!

roeland
January 19th, 2008, 01:56 PM
And that's really a shame, I know I wouldn't mind getting my fingers on that.

You should probably transfer it from a tape to a CD, as tapes don't age well & the ability to find a machine in the future that can read the tape isn't guaranteed.

That's probably the only old PC O/S that I actually miss. There are situations where I could install that today. But first it needs to be tweaked a bit--large disk support, things like that. Maybe even a telnet terminal interface.

All-in-all though, if you ever figure out you can distribute the code (either licensed or abandonware), you've got people on this board who would be interested. Keep us in mind!


well a CD wouldn't help for ages either. Anyways, a good day to move it to
the harddrive, cd and off-site storage.

I have signed an NDA so cannot publish anything on it.

The only things that could be publised all are in the biggest PC-Interrupts list/book. I did the PC-MOS/386 part for the most after receiving OK bij RC&A.

I at least would aim for a sourceforge like open repository that anyone could use to make changes.

Would it be a good idea to see if more people start sending mail to have it free, gpl (v2) or abandonware?

Sharkonwheels
January 19th, 2008, 01:57 PM
And, of course, if anyone has a snapshot of the FTP site with the drivers/patches/upgrades, that would be wonderful as well ;)


T

SwedaGuy
January 19th, 2008, 08:31 PM
I'm not sure who could be considered to legitimately own the source code now. I suppose if we knew a definitive source, I would be willing to put my two cents in on the matter. I've certainly got time to put together a letter requesting that they at least consider the matter.

As far as a "definitive source", what I'm saying, more specifically, is that it would have to be someone with the rights to property formerly owned by TSL (assets of the business) or it's successor, or someone who legally purchased the code from them. Copyright laws and intellectual property rights are nasty things to get tangled up with. Inevitably, when you think you have a product the original owner wouldn't care about, they cause a lot of trouble for you anyway.

But short answer is, I would love to have the source code, even if for none other than academic purposes. I would be curious to see how they handled issues that DOS couldn't and WIN products still don't.

roeland
January 20th, 2008, 12:41 AM
I'm not sure who could be considered to legitimately own the source code now. I suppose if we knew a definitive source, I would be willing to put my two cents in on the matter. I've certainly got time to put together a letter requesting that they at least consider the matter.

As far as a "definitive source", what I'm saying, more specifically, is that it would have to be someone with the rights to property formerly owned by TSL (assets of the business) or it's successor, or someone who legally purchased the code from them. Copyright laws and intellectual property rights are nasty things to get tangled up with. Inevitably, when you think you have a product the original owner wouldn't care about, they cause a lot of trouble for you anyway.



that's the reason I haven't released the code.....

I know that Gary Robertson is still the legal owner of this stuff ..

I'll dig up the address and see if we can do anything about it...

(some parts are in C, most of it is assembly btw)

SwedaGuy
January 20th, 2008, 07:26 AM
I don't mind some assembly...it's usually the most efficient way (in the long run) to get things done. My partner is a C fanatic. Personally, I don't care for the language, as it takes too long to get anything with any kind of interface written, but he swears by it.

If you happen to have an address, I would be more than willing to contact the person and mention that there is interest in the product.

Terry Yager
January 20th, 2008, 08:36 PM
But short answer is, I would love to have the source code, even if for none other than academic purposes. I would be curious to see how they handled issues that DOS couldn't and WIN products still don't.

I'm no IP lawyer, But I'd guess that 'Fair Use' for educational purpose could be argued in that case.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

--T

Terry Yager
January 20th, 2008, 08:45 PM
But short answer is, I would love to have the source code, even if for none other than academic purposes. I would be curious to see how they handled issues that DOS couldn't and WIN products still don't.

I'm no IP lawyer, But I'd guess that 'Fair Use' for educational purpose could be argued in that case, under clauses (1) and (4) of section 107, the main possible 'gotcha' being the requirement that all 4 clauses are to be considered in making that determination.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

As I say, I'm no expert, so this is not to be considered advice, just commentary. YMMV.

--T

SwedaGuy
January 21st, 2008, 06:08 AM
Oh, I'm inclined to agree with you, at least when it comes to defunct products. Of course, there is some personal interpretation in there, so I don't blame someone who disagrees with me on that.

Sharkonwheels
January 21st, 2008, 12:22 PM
that's the reason I haven't released the code.....

I know that Gary Robertson is still the legal owner of this stuff ..

I'll dig up the address and see if we can do anything about it...

(some parts are in C, most of it is assembly btw)

COuld be also, what was her name? Julie Caruso?
After TSL, it became RCA, Robertson Caruso and Associates. Never saw what came after that, though...

I think Gary is still around, and I think in the same area of GA.
T

SwedaGuy
January 21st, 2008, 05:40 PM
GA as in Georgia? What part? I'm a stone's throw from Georgia, would he be anywhere close by?

roeland
January 22nd, 2008, 10:05 AM
GA as in Georgia? What part? I'm a stone's throw from Georgia, would he be anywhere close by?

yes, Georgia.

I haven't had the time to hunt down Gary Robertson yet. Julie Caruso also was busy with it.

However, currently only Gary seems to own it.

http://list.alicebot.org/pipermail/alicebot-archcomm/2003-July/000843.html

helps me a bit....

the firts website is defunct; the second one is homescenes.com and I have mailed him to assist in finding Gary.

Registrant:
Homescenes, Inc.
5579-B Chambee-Dunwoody Rd., Suite 231
Atlanta, GA 30338
US

is the address I have been in the past when I was visiting RC&A....

roeland
January 22nd, 2008, 10:48 AM
vmware workstation 6.x

without memory management I just started an image of a 5 user version of MOS.
I haven't been able to recover two other disks but this one works.

I do recall I have the original 3.5" images -- yeps, got them safely:

xs6:~/pcmos$ ls -l
total 1100
-rw------- 1 bengel user 416348 Jan 15 2003 1_MOS5userSystem.zip
-rw------- 1 bengel user 280651 Jan 15 2003 2_AuxilliaryDisk.zip
-rw------- 1 bengel user 411957 Jan 15 2003 3_BoosterDiskII.zip

I also should have the cdrom driver _somewhere_..
I also did find one of the modified utils I wrote. Cool stuff... ;-)

roeland
January 22nd, 2008, 11:34 AM
I've got a lead to Gary Robertson. I'll see if I can follow this lead.

roeland
January 24th, 2008, 08:56 AM
I've got a lead to Gary Robertson. I'll see if I can follow this lead.

In fact, I have found a relative of Gary and she's pretty close to him. Sadly, Gary has problems with his health and I am not sure if there will be any OK on this matter. Stay tuned.

SwedaGuy
January 24th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Thank you for keeping at it...

Sharkonwheels
January 24th, 2008, 04:59 PM
In fact, I have found a relative of Gary and she's pretty close to him. Sadly, Gary has problems with his health and I am not sure if there will be any OK on this matter. Stay tuned.

Do make sure, if you speak with that family member again, to pass on our well-wishes. Gary's company (TSL) was a pioneer in that industry of the 80's-90's of the multi-user DOS systems, and is a phase in my life I'll never forget.

T

roeland
March 7th, 2008, 12:48 PM
Do make sure, if you speak with that family member again, to pass on our well-wishes. Gary's company (TSL) was a pioneer in that industry of the 80's-90's of the multi-user DOS systems, and is a phase in my life I'll never forget.

T

hi all,

I certainly will do. The good news is that there doesn't seem to be any legal problem anymore to publish the code. I have been talking to gary's sister and she currently tries to find the code on the harddrives Gary still has.

I keep you posted on the further steps....

DoctorPepper
March 8th, 2008, 01:25 AM
hi all,

I certainly will do. The good news is that there doesn't seem to be any legal problem anymore to publish the code. I have been talking to gary's sister and she currently tries to find the code on the harddrives Gary still has.

I keep you posted on the further steps....

That would be awesome! I still have a very nice 386 machine that won't run much more than DOS (2 MB RAM limit and a 60 MB hard drive), but it would be just right for hacking on PC-MOS!

And I speak 8086 Assembler (well, to be fair, I did a long time ago) and C. :-)

SwedaGuy
March 8th, 2008, 10:12 AM
I agree with the good Doctor, I'd like to get my hands into it as well...

Sharkonwheels
April 23rd, 2008, 05:36 PM
In fact, I have found a relative of Gary and she's pretty close to him. Sadly, Gary has problems with his health and I am not sure if there will be any OK on this matter. Stay tuned.

Any update on Gary and his health?


T

Potkoorok
March 9th, 2009, 05:26 PM
Hi.

I've had some exposure to PC-MOS and was naturally favourably impressed with it. Ergo my joining this forum when I came across this thread.

Any news on developments? I too would like to see PC-MOS released - preferrably under the GPL - and revived.

sundragon
March 23rd, 2009, 02:52 PM
I was a VAR with them back in the day (1988-1993), and used to do systems integration with PC-MOS/386 as a more economical solution for businesses that needed multi-user application environment, and didn't want to spend the money on an in-house LAN. (LANs were expensive at that time, including continued support) I wrote and VAR'ed a lot of multi-user-based retail POS applications - much of them Dbase III - related. These all ran great on the PC-MOS platform! I always configured my client's systems using Wyse dumb terminals via BOCA (multi-serial port adapters) boards or similar. I kept a running system in my lab until the late 90's, even though I was no longer doing anything with the product. I'm from them old school of IT, back when we called it DP (data processing), and the idea of being able to configure and run a multi-user environment of DOS simply appealed to me.

In the corporate world, I was (for 24 years) a UNIX system programmer, which back in the day encompassed all areas of maintaining the environment - administration, network admin/config/maintenance/user support, etc. Since UNIX was/is multi-user, I wanted to utilize the 80386 architecture to achieve this capability within the DOS environment. And boy, did it do well for me! So many people were/are completely ignorant to the existence of DOS m/u environments. I finally, however, in 2007 through away (it sort of hurts now!) my copy of the last PC-MOS version, 5.x.x along with the manuals (2), each in its binder case. We were moving from our home and downsizing tremendously, and I had to let go of things that I simply wasn't using, hadn't used in years, and saw no immediate plan to use. At this moment, I wished I had just put it into one of the storage boxes (all still in storage!), but I figure if I get the chance - and space - to create a LAN of legacy/vintage DOS systems, I may be able to track down the last version and do my thing again.

I also used to play with VM/386, DR Concurrent DOS (later bought and shelved by Novell. I never liked Novell, never), Alloy and a few lesser-known others. DR-DOS/386 Multi-user became, over time, REAL/32. I believe REAL/32 is still available as a download, although not suported. Aaah, these m/u DOS environments were ahead of there time in many ways. They do bring back good memories. I could go on . . .

I'm sure someone's got a few copies, probably still shrink-wrapped, lying around in some garage or warehouse (like mine was). If anyone reads this an hears/see such a site, please post it.

Hey, if anyone knows of a resource center (site) where we can download, or even send off for, some of these legacy OSs, please let me know. I'm also interested in locating some TRS-80 boxes (Models 4 & 4P in particular) along with TRS-DOS 6.x and LDOS 7.x (also for the TRS-80 machines). Also looking for some Kaypros with CP/M.

How many of you knew that there was an early multi-user version of CP/M? I think it was called MP/M. It was the predecessor to DR-DOS (before Digital Research took it over and enhanced it). Be nice to see it running again somewhere. Just a bit of trivia.

Thanks everyone, for keeping the memories (and the vintage wisdom) alive!
Enjoy.

Sundragon-

sundragon
March 23rd, 2009, 03:13 PM
I just decided to go through and read ALL of the post regarding PC-MOS. For those of you who are in touch with him, or his family, please send him our best wishes!

He truly engineered and brought about a product that I really loved and will never forget. So let him know, if you can, that someone out here remembers and still speaks highly of PC-MOS/386. I also remember the good tech support they had.

I'm excited to have read that there's discussion of having PC-MOS/386 released to the public, becoming freeware, maybe OpenPC-MOS?!!!

This would really be great! My son, who's just turned 12, is very interested in computers and computing environments. He'll install and run anything I've got a cd/dvd-rom for. He's interested in see PC-MOS run, as he's heard me float into nostalgia as I recall the earlier days. It would be nice to be able to run it again with him at the helm. I've brought up DOS 3.3 and 6.2 on an 386 machine, as part of an exercise to teach my children the history, and to appreciate where the modern computing environment comes from. He'd really get a kick out of PC-MOS, configured as a 2 -3 user system.

Keep us posted.

Thank you again!

Sundragon-

Terry Yager
March 23rd, 2009, 09:05 PM
I have a 5-user PC/MOS 386 I'll dig up, if you want it. (I forget the version).

--T

amouse
March 24th, 2009, 04:52 AM
7 pages of posting and where are the Images!

Could some kind soul please ready
a) Software images
b) Documentation and codes

and put them onto a site somewhere so that we could all sample PC-MOS/386.

I am sure that if after futher consideration the consensus was that the hosting was appropriate, it would then be taken down immediately. :cool:

Terry Yager
March 24th, 2009, 10:09 AM
Posting commercial software here is a Bozo No-No, but there are other websites. Google is my leetle friend...

--T

Vlad
March 24th, 2009, 10:14 AM
There's no issue with screen shots and documentation but no code as long as its under copyright.

Paulsee
July 6th, 2009, 09:30 PM
I have a strange PC-MOS problem. I was running PC-MOS on a 486DX-100 supporting 3 Wyse terminals with no problems. It got hit by lightning so I copied all the data that I could from the HD, then did a clean install of PC-MOS 5.01 and copied back the saved files. Now I can't get PC-MOS to boot on any computer that I've tried. I have another portable system running an AMD K6-2 300MHZ and PC-MOS works just fine on there. I noticed that someone here said they couldn't get their PC-MOS to boot if they loaded the $386.sys driver. That seems to be where mine hangs too but then how do you get the multi-user function to work. Without the driver, my computer says "Not enough memory" for any tasks even though I'm running 64Mb. I ran this same system on the 486 with just 4Mb! Any ideas?

Paulsee
August 5th, 2012, 11:23 AM
Hi all, I have come up with a strange PC-MOS problem in just the last couple of days. Maybe someone here has a suggestion to fix it.
I am presently running several small 2 and 3 user networks under PC-MOS 5.01, Clipper/Dbase III apps, a couple for 20 years and everything has been working fine. Suddenly PC-MOS will not open a .mem data file. In the last two days, four clients have called in with the same problem, on starting up their program, they get an error message saying. "Proc (module name) open error aucdata.mem (2) or (5). No matter which program module calls that file, it produces an error message.
The same programs will run just fine under DOS 5.0 to Dos 6.22 except of course there is no multi-user ability.
Any ideas?

tomwinjax
August 7th, 2012, 05:37 AM
I believe I may have a similar issue -- I find myself dealing with similar open error messages.
The issue seems to have manifested on or about Aug 1st or 2nd, but was just brought to my attention late on the 3rd. It is affecting our ability to control some, but not all, aspects of an old paging terminal. I'll be taking my first serious look at it today, 8/7/12, but my initial quick "assessment" made Friday evening produced some results similar to your description. I will need to do some brushing up on the PC-MOS, DOS, and the paging terminal software before I can claim to make an actual evaluation, so it should be interesting and probably frustrating. I'll be watching to see what develops with your situation, and will try to report any progress I might make as well. Good luck.

MDK
August 8th, 2012, 09:06 PM
Just discovered that the PC-MOS date generating function must not go beyond July 31 2012!! Came to work wednesday August 1st to discover crashed programs. ( PC-MOS / FOXPro 2.6 / SBT Accounting. ) Took several days to work this out. We managed to get our system running under MS-DOS 6 one user only. As work piled up, we tried to figure out why perfectly good files would not open once accessed or edited or copied (not a valid file, file not found, etc.), but were OK with DOS. It finally became apparent that the file header date was the problem. Like Y2K all over again. Any file with a 08/01/2012 date would not open under PC-MOS. The date was being written OK, but then the file would not open. Solution? spend $$$ to get an emergency upgrade to a whole new softawe/hardware system? ( Work still piling up with 12 person parts & equipment distribution business all trying to use one terminal!) Heres our solution... (1) Rewrite all affected files by editing the file header with a D-Base file-fix utility program and/or accessing & saving the files under MS-Dos booted up with an earlier system date. (2) Re-set the Computer C-mos clock date to the year 2000 and re-boot. (3) Insert a variable/function to add [365.25x10] days to all SBT accounting/inventory programs and procedure files anyplace a date is created/saved/displayd to make sure all "working" dates are correct. The files will still be written with old dates in the file header, but not an issue. Re-compile all program files, and re-index all data files to get "good" dates in FPX and CDX files. Booted up and everythig seems to be OK! Good to go for another 12 years, running 13 terminals/workstaions and 7 printers off one "server". Hope this helps any other PC-MOS cult users out there!

tomwinjax
August 9th, 2012, 05:52 AM
MDK,
Thanks. I had also made a contact in the digital paging world hoping to find anybody still running the same or similar equipment/software as we do, and got a reply indicating a Y2K-type issue also being experienced by other paging systems running PC-MOS. Although the fix/workaround is geared specifically to our paging systems' operation, the general procedure seems to be much like your solution:

[courtesy of Brad Dye, brad@braddye.com]
Hey Tom,

Here are some e-mails about the Unipage Y2K-type bug from last week. The first is a bulletin that I sent out to my newsletter subscribers:

> There is a Y2K type bug in the Unipage/Motorola Console 4. Evidently files updated with today's date, August 1, 2012, will cause some problems with accessing the database— like trying to do activations or swaps.
> My limited understanding of the issue is that the files affected end ".DBF" and possibly others in the Console Database Program (CONDB.EXE) and changing the date to anything earlier should fix the problem.

Then I received this:

> Brad, thanks for the email, we were one of the carriers affected by this Unipage date issue. If it has value, thought I’d share the quick version of what we had to do. John B. with Microspace suggested that it would make sense to pass this along.
> Our console system became unusable as a result of this 8-1-2012 date problem. However, the fix was not as simple as turning the clock back. Once we turned the date back to 2001 (the day of the week matches up), we were still getting condb40c.log file
> errors & could not access subscriber information. The total fix was to use a MSDOS v6.22 boot disk. I could not modify bad files while running PCMOS os, which makes me suspect that PCMOS may be as much of a culprit as the console program. Next, edit
> the condb40c.log file so it will have the 2001 modified date attached to it (all I did was change the last entry to a 2001 date). Then while in MSDOS, start the console program (condb) and invoke the “re-index database file” command under the maintenance
> menu. This should be done for all databases that would be available under the log menu. At least, that worked for us.
>
> [...]

I see you already developed a fix for your system, but perhaps it may be of some use to you or Paulsee, anyway. Had I not been fortunate enough to have received a specific fix for my issue, I'm sure I would have put yours to good use!! Thanks, and good luck.
-Tom

Billyray
August 19th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Hi all, I have come up with a strange PC-MOS problem in just the last couple of days. Maybe someone here has a suggestion to fix it.
I am presently running several small 2 and 3 user networks under PC-MOS 5.01, Clipper/Dbase III apps, a couple for 20 years and everything has been working fine. Suddenly PC-MOS will not open a .mem data file. In the last two days, four clients have called in with the same problem, on starting up their program, they get an error message saying. "Proc (module name) open error aucdata.mem (2) or (5). No matter which program module calls that file, it produces an error message.
The same programs will run just fine under DOS 5.0 to Dos 6.22 except of course there is no multi-user ability.
Any ideas?

You interest me strangely! What were these apps doing that operated under PC-MOS for the last 20 years? I used to work in the Digital Paging Industry, back then, and even sold an app to paging companies written in Clipper...

Paulsee
May 13th, 2013, 04:33 PM
You interest me strangely! What were these apps doing that operated under PC-MOS for the last 20 years? I used to work in the Digital Paging Industry, back then, and even sold an app to paging companies written in Clipper...

Hi Billy Ray,
Strangely, eh? Well my particular apps are written for auction data management. I sell and support computer systems that are tailored specifically for auctioneers' sakes management. Yep, a couple of my systems have been in operation for over 29 years with a couple of updates and tweaks over the years as we come up with a beneficial improvement.

Anyway, the Y2K type problem with PC/MOS is the date. Any date past July 31, 2012 will cause PC/MOS to act erratically and randomly reject any file with a date stamp later than 7/31/2012. I think that somewhere in the PC/MOS .exe file is a date stamp or reference to the end-date which if altered should cure the problem. So far, I haven't been able to find it.

Someone suggested a hex editor but I haven't tried that yet. I used to be able to use a Norton utility program and search for a particular string within an .exe file and once found, edit the string but so far, not knowing what string I'm searching for, I have not been able to find it. Any suggestions in that area?

I have been able to use a work-around for now but I sure would like to continue using PC/MOS just the way it has always worked before the bug problem.

Paulsee
May 13th, 2013, 04:38 PM
OOOps, OOOps, the phrase "auctioneers' sakes management" should read "auctioneers' sales management"

t.ment
February 22nd, 2019, 10:57 AM
7 years late, but the 2012 date problem is fixed. It was a register mov typo that put data in the wrong place. Not an expiration date at all. Is anyone with manuals and disks still around?