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snuci
March 12th, 2015, 11:36 AM
Today I received the fruits of one of my longest pursuits, an IBM 5100 with 5106 tape drive. It definitely needs a lot of love and work and it will be a fun restoration project. Truthfully, I don't think it will ever work. It was clearly neglected for a long time and sat in storage for many years. What type of storage, I don't know nor does it matter any more.

It's so dirty that I'm not sure if the CRT made it or if it's just powdered foam that's stuck to the screen. In any case, it will take quite some effort before I even consider flipping the on switch. It was turned on in the Craigslist ad but had a "Process Check" light on from what I could tell from the blurry pictures. I am amazed the Process Check light worked, to be honest.

At the bottom of the case is the usual sticky foam but thee's also a thin white film that cracks in some places and brushes away as dust. Would this be calcium from standing water? If someone can identify the white stuff at the bottom of the case, I would appreciate it.

Here's a couple of pics.

2319023191231922319423193

I have further pics here: http://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-5100-before

snuci
March 12th, 2015, 05:01 PM
Is there anyone with an IBM 5100 that can tell me what slots the cards go into (or is there a webpage somewhere)? Since mine came with the cards fallen out, I don't know where they go. The 5100 Maintenance Manual has the slots marked but I can't find the card numbers on the cards to figure out where they fit.

Any help is much appreciated.

NeXT
March 12th, 2015, 06:03 PM
Did you make note of where the cards were when you opened the unit and found them sitting like that? They almost look like they were in their proper order but resting on their sides.

Edited: I"m finding a number of photos on google that better assist in showing where the cards were originally fitted. Mind you, take that with a grain of salt as options and system revisions might of shuffled some boards around. Given how quickly Hipsters and private collectors snatch these up it's sad that nobody ever takes the time to actually document the things in case of just a situation. Might this be a great time to do so? ;)

http://dmzj.pic.178.com/pic/pic/268/2684083//month_1105/1304949418_2684083_ee4193d3bdab3c5a3aa5ooNATzNFO8q j.jpg
http://wandel.ca/ibm5100/IBM%205100%20card%20cage.jpg
http://wandel.ca/ibm5100/IBM%205100%20card%20cage,%20top%20view.jpg

Also by looking at your photos the CRT appears to be fine.

snuci
March 13th, 2015, 06:41 AM
Thanks for the reply NeXT. I just found what I was looking for. I thought I had seen this in my travels so I'm glad I wasn't dreaming. Dave Dunfield has an IBM 5100 Disassembled page at http://classiccmp.org/dunfield/ibm5100/disass.htm It is exactly what I'm looking for. Along with page 255 of the IBM 5100 Maintenance manual (http://classiccmp.org/dunfield/ibm5100/d/mim5100.pdf), I should be able to fix put the puzzle together.

After further disassembly and cleaning last night, the screen is fine. Still at it... There's a glimmer of hope but there's a voltage distribution box under the screen that might need a look. I'm actually surprised how modular it is. Another thing of note is the plastic case. It has some has heavy wear in spots worn down to a black layer but it's bullet-proof. We'll see what I can do to refurbish it.

snuci
March 13th, 2015, 03:17 PM
Well, I cleaned it up and fired it up and the "Bring Up Program" or POST these days stops at "A". It appears to be a Base I/O card issue. There is some rust on a couple of ICs but I am wondering if it might be the "bridge connectors" between the Base I/O and Controller (CPU) card as shown in the picture above posted by NeXT. Looks like they might be directional so I may have swapped them around by accident but I don't see any mention in the Maintenance manual.

I, pretty much, need someone who has one to take a picture of the top of their Base I/O and Controller cards, much like the picture above but with no glare so I can see the PCB of those two connectors.

Anyway, it's progress and has some life.

snuci
March 17th, 2015, 04:17 AM
Quick update.

The "bridge connectors" are interchangeable. I metered them out and they simply connect pin 1 to pin 1... etc.

I still have only a single "A" but i was able to clean it up.

For those interested, here's some pictures: http://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-5100-in-pictures/

NeXT
March 17th, 2015, 07:16 AM
I can't believe you managed to find one on craigslist no less. I have not seen a 5100 in the wild for years.

harry
March 17th, 2015, 02:25 PM
For those interested, here's some pictures: http://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-5100-in-pictures/

Good work!! and good pictures! nice to see its condition before, and afterwards. hope you get it sorted

Harry

pappelo
May 1st, 2015, 03:35 AM
Hi Snuci, very nice ibm 5100 and 5106... It s too hard to find the moduls...good luck

snuci
May 3rd, 2015, 04:03 PM
Thanks Pappelo. This one isn't going to be easy to fix so I am on the look out for 5100 cards. As is the case for most of my computer acquisitions, when I get them I do some initial troubleshooting and restoration. When there's nothing obvious, I keep it aside for a future indepth repair session. I am very happy to even have found an IBM 5100 whether it works or not.

Qbus
May 4th, 2015, 05:18 AM
Back in the nineties I had two of them, one that was the IBM Basic only and a second that ran Basic and APL. Had the complete IBM basic instruction course on tape and learned how to work in Basic from that. The foam was disengaging back then so it all had to be cleaned out but did not need it anyway. Once you get it working will find out that it’s a great little system with the only issue being that nothing connects to it. You needed a special serial card for a RS-232 port that I did not have and the three plugs on the back are some form of parallel port that the external drive or the line printer connect to but nothing else will. The only thing that easy is that there is a composite video output that you can run to an external video monitor and an old surveillance B&W monitor works great for that being it’s such a big character set. The power supply and the monitor are easy to repair but everything else is all that proprietary IBM stuff so if that not good you have a big problem. What memory is in it? 16 or 32K?

snuci
May 4th, 2015, 05:45 AM
I have 32k of memory in it. When running, it runs in a loop and continually shows me the first "A" in the start up program. I have single stepped thorough and it never gets past A but it then jumps back to blank and then shows A again. I have swapped 16k memory cards and removed all boards that I could but still get the same output.

It's unnerving seeing that but I'll either wait for some boards to come up for sale (if ever) or start to replace ICs if it comes down to it. Thats why it's a little more of a long term project now.

mikoto0931
May 24th, 2015, 07:49 AM
New IBM 5100 owner! :) Nice to meet you!

I have IBM 5100 and 5103 printer(which is completely broken).
At first, my 5100 had an error, and I even didn't know the solution. However, several days later since I got it, I could fix this machine.

Your 5100 is pretty worn, It must be cleaned. And If you want, I can tell you all about some tips about 5100.

snuci
May 24th, 2015, 05:47 PM
Hi Mikoto931,

Congrats on the 5100. They're definitely hard to find. I've put it aside for the moment but I'd love to hear what you did to get yours going.

Thanks.

snuci
September 5th, 2016, 06:05 PM
After putting this 5100 aside, I managed to acquire an IBM 5100 with BASIC and APL. It was in rough shape and the cards had fallen out so I'm not sure the order of the cards. Unfortunately, these cards are different and none of them look similar to the BASIC only 5100.

BIG FAVOR: Does anyone have pictures of the IBM 5100 BASIC/APL boards and their socket locations so I can out mine back together? This would help tremendously! Sadly, this 5100 has some chewed cables so it needs some restoration but this is a first step.

Also, from the differences in the boards, it doesn't look like these boards are interchangeable. Would anyone know if these boards are interchangeable (if the APL boards were removed)?

Any help is much appreciated.

snuci
September 6th, 2016, 01:21 PM
Further to this, when trying to look for the memory card online, it appears to be that of an IBM 5110 so I may have a 5100 with a 5110 card set in it. I'll have to do some further digging.

Another problem I have with the machine is a bad flyback transformer wire. The insulation was eaten clean through by rodents. I'm guessing I can't just wrap electrical tape around it, right? I think it will be impossible to find a replacement flyback transformer so I may have run into a brick wall anyway.

Any hints or help is much appreciated.

Al Kossow
September 6th, 2016, 01:29 PM
Further to this, when trying to look for the memory card online, it appears to be that of an IBM 5110 so I may have a 5100 with a 5110 card set in it. I'll have to do some further digging.

Another problem I have with the machine is a bad flyback transformer wire. The insulation was eaten clean through by rodents. I'm guessing I can't just wrap electrical tape around it, right? I think it will be impossible to find a replacement flyback transformer so I may have run into a brick wall anyway.

Any hints or help is much appreciated.

if you give up on this, I know some people who would like to recover the ROM (ROS) memory for BASIC and APL, since it fails a LOT in the 5100

snuci
September 6th, 2016, 01:36 PM
if you give up on this, I know some people who would like to recover the ROM (ROS) memory for BASIC and APL, since it fails a LOT in the 5100

I won't give up but if they can recover the ROM memory non-destructively, I'm willing to lend it to them. Let's see where I get first.

snuci
September 6th, 2016, 01:40 PM
The flyback transformer on the 5100 APL/BASIC model is a Penn-Tran Model# 1-017-5372. Turns out it was an ingredient to make homemade Tesla coil (http://www.teslauniverse.com/resources/builders/plans/build-solid-state-tesla-coil) :) Is there a reference guide for equivalent replacement parts anywhere?

HoJoPo
September 6th, 2016, 05:11 PM
You may be able to re-cast the high voltage line in silicone, like it was originally manufactured. Or use something like the 3M self fusing silicone tape (type 70?) to wrap it.

snuci
September 6th, 2016, 05:47 PM
You may be able to re-cast the high voltage line in silicone, like it was originally manufactured. Or use something like the 3M self fusing silicone tape (type 70?) to wrap it.


Some time ago, I had this black rubber like tape that would stick to itself. It was used for high voltage power lines but haven't been able to find it. I looked up the tape that you are referring to but I don't think it's exactly the same. I don't remember there being a plastic separator. I'm going to give that a shot anyway so thanks for the post. I will keep looking for a replacement flyback transformer or a similar 5" CRT assembly as well.

hornbetw
September 6th, 2016, 06:49 PM
You can get Hi Voltage silicone tubing to insulate the lead. I think 3m is one manufacturer.

Tom

snuci
September 7th, 2016, 03:05 AM
Further to my 5100 APL card order question, I think I have them in place now.

Most pictures on the Internet show the IBM 51xx series card cage open with the memory card exposed at the front. Since the 5100 APL memory card looked different than my 5100 BASIC model card, I happened to come upon an IBM 5110 image that showed the open card cage image with the same card as my 5100 APL memory card. I was previously referring to the IBM 5100 documentation but once I turned to the IBM 5110 documentation, things started to make sense. I found some images of the 5110 BASIC card set but not of the APL card set. I could figure out the normal cards but not the two extra APL cards.

Since all of the cards had fallen out when I first got the unit, I didn't know what card went in what exact slot but I kept them in the order that I found them. This helped because there doesn't appear to be any pictures of the APL cards on the net. From the order and the 5110 documentation, I was able to put them in place (I think).

Here's a pic:

33019

I think I am almost there but now I need to fix the CRT. I thought about perhaps disconnecting the CRT for now and using the external monitor connector but the rodent had chewed through two items only. The flyback transformer cable (an even edges of the flyback transformer) and the external video cable. At this point, my goal with this unit it to try to fix the CRT.

Worst case, I have a couple of working IBM 5120's which are 5110 Model 3's so I could try out the cards there as I believe they are the same (plus the extra APL cards). I was also fortunate enough to find a 5110 model 2 that I am in the process of acquiring. It would definitely be easier to try these cards on this unit when I get it but that won't be for a couple more weeks.

The quest continues.

Thanks for the suggests guys.

NeXT
September 7th, 2016, 11:20 AM
Your tube is small enough that the flyback probably only handles between 4000 and 6000v. From when I had to repair a lead in a 50's TV the solution was several layers of corona dope and shrink tubing over the splices.

Also, where the hell are you finding all these 5100's? O_o

snuci
September 7th, 2016, 02:08 PM
Thanks for the advise NeXT. I already bought the 3M silicon tape (there is 1000 uses for it) and it's rated at 15kV so I'm very happy with that. But... I also believe I may have stumbled upon new old stock replacement CRT assemblies complete with 5" CRT, cage, board and flyback that might possibly drop in place. When it arrives, I'll give it a shot. The seller has several but they are from 1987 so I'm almost certain it's not exactly the same but it sure looks like it even though I don't believe the mounting holes are right.

There are two 5" displays in the IBM 5100 Maintenance manual on page 2-41. The first is a "Video display unit with horizontal linearity sleeve". This is what I have both of my units. The second display in the manual is a "Video display unit without horizontal linearity sleeve" and I did find a picture of a similar model at Dunfiled's site here: http://classiccmp.org/dunfield/ibm5100/h/i5crt.jpg It's not exact but it's pretty close. The auction for the NOS one is here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/371722784591. The 10 pin card edge connector is the same too. If someone can tell me if the monitors would be connected any differently, I would appreciate that but I'm guessing from the manual that they are interchangeable. It's a gamble I don't mind taking because my display is quite rusted and previously chewed on.

As for finding 5100s, I do have a passion for them so I pretty much constantly look. Most of the time I get lucky and I guess I know where to look. It's all about timing too because the inexpensive ones go quick :)

Shadow Lord
November 8th, 2016, 09:23 AM
if you give up on this, I know some people who would like to recover the ROM (ROS) memory for BASIC and APL, since it fails a LOT in the 5100

Al,

I sent Eric Smith an email about this a while ago and never heard back. Is he the one trying to recover the ROM?

Al Kossow
November 8th, 2016, 10:07 AM
Al,

I sent Eric Smith an email about this a while ago and never heard back. Is he the one trying to recover the ROM?

yes. do you have his 'spacewar' email adr?

snuci
November 8th, 2016, 01:27 PM
Hasn't the ROSes been extracted here in the Emulator archive? http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev/ibm_5110/technik/en/emu.html