PDA

View Full Version : Political discussions



Erik
October 10th, 2006, 04:03 PM
The political discussions forum area is gone.

I put this area in when I started the Vintage Computer Forums, along with the other OT areas, because I know that people have diverse interests and I've seen people insert this kind of thing in with on-topic posts.

I wanted a place where people could scratch that itch without disrupting vintage computer discussions.

Unfortunately I haven't found anyone who really agrees that these areas belong on a forum of this type while I have received numerous complaints about them, most specifically the politics area.

So, that's the first to go. Hopefully it's the last but I won't hesitate to kill the entire OT section if I come to believe that it isn't adding value here or, worse, it is detracting from our collective goals.

Thanks, as always, for your participation here.

chuckcmagee
October 10th, 2006, 04:16 PM
It was certainly generating tons of ill will and negative emotions around here. I have a fairly good relationship with my neighbors and I'm smart enough to keep the political discussions to a minimum. I can tell that I'll never join his position and he certainly won't join mine. Good relationships are tough enough to maintain without "doing politics".

IBMMuseum
October 10th, 2006, 04:48 PM
The political discussions forum area is gone. ...So, that's the first to go. Hopefully it's the last but I won't hesitate to kill the entire OT section if I come to believe that it isn't adding value here or, worse, it is detracting from our collective goals...
Thank You, well done & well said. A forum of flame wars is a horrible thing, thank $Deity it didn't quite get to that level. I make an appeal to everyone to be civilized with each other.

My pseudonym is "IBMMuseum" and I endorsed this message...

Erik
October 10th, 2006, 04:55 PM
A forum of flame wars is a horrible thing

That, at least, wouldn't have happened. It may have been heated and people certainly disagreed but flames, in any area, will result in people disappearing for a while. . . ;)

Chris2005
October 11th, 2006, 01:25 PM
I can't speak for everyone, only myself. While I may have been somewhat offended by some of the exchange, I purposed not to let it get to me, to the point where it would detract from my participation in the main forums. Some were disrespectful, and believe it or not, I don't think I was (and yes I absolutely have a cracked sense of humor, but no harm was MEANT). If anyone wants to tell me where I was out of line, feel free to do so in a pm or e-mail. I'll reply to it with the deepest sincerity.
It's the internet folks. If you're going to be too think skinned, you're probably best not participating at all...
I never complained to Erik about anything. I can't imagine what some of these complaints could have been.
This doesn't mean I don't respect Erik's decision though. He knows better then any what's best for the board.

Vlad
October 11th, 2006, 01:51 PM
The thing is we've had problems in the past, some of which was way before most you new comers were here. This was just the nail in the coffin. Besides, this is a Vintage Computer Forum, the OT section is just a side thing. It was beginning to distract too much from the main focus of the forum, which is still Vintage Computers. I've seen friendships go sour from the Political discussions area. I think the forum will be a better place with out political fights going on.

-VK

DoctorPepper
October 11th, 2006, 02:45 PM
When I was in the Navy (a long time ago), my second real duty station was teaching F-14 Tomcat avionics at NAS Oceana, Virgina Beach, VA. Prior to this, I attended a four week instructor training school in Bangor, WA. One of the main things they stressed was to never, EVER discuss or allow the discussion of the big three:
1) sex
2) religion and
3) politics.

The reasoning behind this is simple, each person has a different outlook on all three of these, and even the most well-meaning discussion can quickly spiral into anarchy when one of these enters the conversation.

Personally, I am 100% behind Erik, and believe there is no place on this forum for discussions on politics. In these times, perhaps the same can be said for sex and religion.

Just my $0.02

Vlad
October 11th, 2006, 02:54 PM
Very well said. Also known as the Heavy Three. I had forgotten about that....

-VK

Chris2005
October 11th, 2006, 03:00 PM
well it doesn't really jive with the 1st amendment. Of course you have to be respectful. But some people would like to ban any speech at all that perturbs them in the least. Our ability to speak freely is what makes this country great. Just keep that in mind.

Vlad
October 11th, 2006, 03:06 PM
Being able to post messages in this forum is a privilege, as the Admin staff of the forums it is our say on what is allowed and what is not. This is a privet forum that is OWNED by Erik and ran by all of us. Plus Political discussions don't belong on a forum that targets Vintage Computers, it doesn't fit. The OT area was for a place for people to have side conversations. Lets not abuse that.

-VK

Chris2005
October 16th, 2006, 04:43 PM
I wasn't disputing Erik's decision. The thread sort of digressed from the announcement he made. Go back and read everything I said. And my last post was in response to what was said in the two prior posts. And whether certain discussions have any place on this forum or not, people's reaction to free speech is what places it in jeopardy.

IBMMuseum
October 16th, 2006, 06:07 PM
I wasn't disputing Erik's decision. The thread sort of digressed from the announcement he made. Go back and read everything I said. And my last post was in response to what was said in the two prior posts. And whether certain discussions have any place on this forum or not, people's reaction to free speech is what places it in jeopardy.
The First Amendment covers more than just freedom of speech (freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of assembly, and the right to petition the government for redress as well). But it is purely written to counter goverment involvement ("Congress shall make no law..."), not a private forum. It shouldn't be invoked (what if the site were hosted outside the United States?) in this circumstance.

Terry Yager
October 16th, 2006, 08:34 PM
I think Chris meant 'free speech' as a moral & ethical concept, and not in the strict terms of the law or the constitution. In some societies, mass book-burnings have been openly encouraged by the powers that be, but just because it's legal, doesn't make it 'right'. (Yes, I know I'm tiptoing around Godwin's Law, but I was careful not to mention the 'N-word').

--T

Sharkonwheels
October 16th, 2006, 09:37 PM
I'm kinda' in agreement with Erik and Vlad.

You want to discuss politics? Find a politics forum.
Wanna discuss vintage 'puters? You're in the right place.

I've seen TOO many flame wars over the 15 years I've been on the 'net, to even ENGAGE in a political/religious discussion.

Political and religious discussions always ultimately lead to the same end result:
Flame-wars, fighting, and board side-tracking.


Tony

Unknown_K
October 16th, 2006, 10:38 PM
The problem is people are wound too tight these days to be able to discuss most issues without trying to kill the other person. Very few people can relate to the other side of any topic be it religion, politics, or sex.

While I don't see the point of having a political section on a computer forum, I do think it says alot about the people here when they have to remove that section because of angry discussions.

Chris2005
October 17th, 2006, 08:45 AM
"The problem is people are wound too tight these days..."

These days? Nah. People were wound up much more in olden times.

Yes Terry, I'm glad someone caught on ;)

ziloo
October 17th, 2006, 09:30 AM
I agree with Erik regarding the misuse of the Politic's section, but I hate to
say that I would miss that section. I have never posted anything under
politics, but I sure enjoy reading others opinion, specially when they know
how to make a statement.

After being with a group of people for a while, be it a virtual social gathering,
you kind of feel you have buddies that you can talk to, technical, social,
what not. I know that there are political forums one can go to, but people
here who make commentaries are not necessarily politically minded people or
politicians who are running for the office. These are normal, healthy, caring
individuals who give a damn about something, and they feel pain when they
see injustice, and they want their friends to hear their voice. These are
individuals who care so much for a broken, outdated piece of machinery that
they spend so much money, time, and labor to keep something alive that
means something to them, let alone a social issue that involves human beings.

We are living at difficult times with social, economical, and political issues
that are taxing from everybody's patience. At times like this, one has to
know where to draw the line between informing, and insulting. Before being a
vintage computer collector, we are all human beings who believe that right is
right and wrong is wrong. Instead of insulting and cursing at what is wrong
with this world, why not we emphasize and talk about the things that should
be made right.

Many times that the forum is quiet and there are not that many posts that
(forgive me for saying that) are interesting, I like to visit the Off-Topic
section to read Terry's latest poems, or Vlad's latest yelling-posts, or
Carlsson's latest adventure with that flesh-eating plant he is growing in
his room, or a photo of somebody's new car, pet, outer-space alien girlfriend!
That is what makes us all human, and that is the taste for life.

Peace on earth :thumbsup:

Chris2005
October 17th, 2006, 09:33 AM
amen brother. Ditto

ziloo
October 17th, 2006, 09:49 AM
By the way, knowing the responsibility of an administrator and leader of a
technical forum, I fully agree with Erik's decision for closing the Politic's
section. May be it is better to let things cool off a little bit and everybody
reflect on what was said and done.

And a congratulations note to me who made his 100th post and bacame a
senior member (do I get a raise now?).

:biggrin:

carlsson
October 17th, 2006, 12:50 PM
My flesh-eating girlfriend plants now are so tall that they barely fit into one picture. I need to move them into bigger pots.