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SGTSQUID
March 22nd, 2015, 05:39 PM
As some of you noticed I just sold a full set of UCSD P-System for the PC, and I have some people interested in buying copies of the disks from me. I also found out that there do not seem to be any disk images for this version available on the web, so it makes me wonder if someone is enforcing copyright on it. I know that UCSD released an earlier version of the p-system, but this version (IV.03 from 1982) does not seem to be covered. I am making images of the disks before I ship it to the buyer and I would like to make it available, but I don't want anyone knocking on my door with a summons because of it.

Any ideas?

Chuckster_in_Jax
March 22nd, 2015, 06:34 PM
Check this out. According to this website:

The ucsd-psystem-os project makes the source code to the UCSD p-System version II.0 available to retro-computing fans. This was made possible by a licence granted by UCSD in 2006 (http://invent.ucsd.edu/technology/cases/1995-prior/SD1991-807.shtml) allowing the source code to be used and distributed without fee, for educational, research, and non-profit purposes.


http://miller.emu.id.au/pmiller/ucsd-psystem-os/

Also, bitsavers.org has the files and a release statement from UCSD here:

http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/bits/UCSD_Pascal/

krebizfan
March 22nd, 2015, 07:44 PM
What UCSD released was early versions. The version that ran on the IBM PC (version 4) is not covered by those agreements. The V4 rights were owned by Softech Microsystems, Pecan Systems (in NY), and Cabot Software (UK). Exactly what rights remain with which company or sold to others was unclear. If you can find the answer, I think a lot of people on the Yahoo group would be very interested.

NeXT
March 22nd, 2015, 08:16 PM
I'd still image the disks before shipping them out, just in case they were somehow damaged or wiped by accident during shipping. You know how the postal service can be quite unforgiving. ;)

SGTSQUID
March 22nd, 2015, 09:05 PM
I already ripped a set of images with Imagedisk, and it looks like they are good. I am sending a set of backup disks and a copy of the images to the buyer just in case the worst happens.

I would like to make them available, and I'm certainly not looking to sell them if anyone was thinking that.

SGTSQUID
March 22nd, 2015, 09:25 PM
The last owner appears to be Cabot Systems, and they sold a version of UCSD Pascal at least as late as 1999. They are still around so I sent them an email explaining the hobbyist interest in it and asking what the status is.

SGTSQUID
March 23rd, 2015, 06:08 PM
The main reason I'm worried is that right after the auction I got an email from a guy who was very insistent on buying a copy of the disks, claiming that he had bid $575 and lost. I checked and saw that he had not bid at all. It looked like someone might be trolling for a copyright lawsuit. There's too much of that sort of thing going on these days and I can't afford to deal with it right now.

On another note, the buyer is in France, and I did send backup disks and disk images to him. Since the French courts had shot down that kind of copyright extortion, he could make the images available and there's nothing any American lawyer could do about it.

SomeGuy
March 23rd, 2015, 06:51 PM
I got an email from a guy who was very insistent on buying a copy of the disks, claiming that he had bid $575 and lost. I checked and saw that he had not bid at all. It looked like someone might be trolling for a copyright lawsuit.

It's probably just some kid from IdiotVille... I mean BetaArchive :p


On another note, the buyer is in France, and I did send backup disks and disk images to him. Since the French courts had shot down that kind of copyright extortion, he could make the images available and there's nothing any American lawyer could do about it.

That would be nice. No harm encouraging. Either way make it somebody else's problem. :)

tipc
March 24th, 2015, 02:26 PM
first off you could claim entrapment.

Don't be surprised if there's people out there utilizing ancient h/w and s/w. Oh 10 years ago someone from Kentucky contacted me regarding a post about TI PCs. Seems he used them, special software and some weird apparatus to do some sort of geological surveys for customers. Apparently he was just scraping by doing this - we didn't want to spend even a paltry sum for a machine. But another party might actually spend big bucks when their antiquated rig goes bad. Sure it makes more sense to upgrade. Just tell that to the people still using COBOL.

Chuck(G)
March 24th, 2015, 03:44 PM
Let's see, a CNC wire EDM machine that dates from 1988, still running fine using CP/M-68K software; runs fine.

Modern WEDM replacement: $150K or thereabouts, not including shipping and site prep. There's a lot old gear out there, still producing quite well, thank you. I just copied a batch of Mitsubishi WEDM floppies for a customer. He considered $25 each a bargain. His particular machine dates from 1990.

SGTSQUID
March 24th, 2015, 04:27 PM
first off you could claim entrapment.

I doubt I could claim entrapment if I sold a copy of software that I don't own the rights to. Giving it away I probably could, especially if it was as a "backup copy". I've seen disclaimers on abandonware sites that say something like "only download this if you own the software and need to replace media that has gone bad". That's why it looked suspicious, especially when he claimed that he had bid and he didn't.

tipc
March 24th, 2015, 05:14 PM
I doubt I could claim entrapment if I sold a copy of software that I don't own the rights to. Giving it away I probably could, especially if it was as a "backup copy". I've seen disclaimers on abandonware sites that say something like "only download this if you own the software and need to replace media that has gone bad". That's why it looked suspicious, especially when he claimed that he had bid and he didn't.

Well lol the biggest reason you couldn't claim anything is you're discussing it here. I merely was stating you *might* have had an out. Someone was offering you an large sum for a set of disks (and incidentally keeping back copies of the originals you sold might also complicate matters). AFAIK *they* aren't supposed to do that.
But needless to say it is unethical to sell copies of disks regardless.

Jimmy
April 4th, 2015, 04:26 PM
I am the one who contacted you and the one who placed the bid the disks, I have been ill and out of the country and used ezSniper to bid on the software, not sure why it is not showing up on eBay but it is on my ezSniper account. Maybe someone here in the forum can explain why it does not, if not I will contact ezSniper and ask them. If you can be sued for copyright infringement on this software I am all ready in trouble, I have emailed a couple of the members here, The System2 and Pascal disk images, I have also emailed a few members the Fortran compiler.

SGTSQUID
April 4th, 2015, 05:05 PM
I would be happy to share, but I'm not going to sell any disk copies or images. I will probably go ahead and submit the images to Winworld or something similar. I might also try to use them to get access to BetaArchive since it doesn't look like they have it either. Anybody know if that is worth it?

Jimmy
April 4th, 2015, 05:32 PM
Here are the disks I currently own, from what I have read, I understand there were 5 manuals and 6 disks in the set. I know I am missing the Startup which had a demo program. I have 3 of the manuals plus 5 disks not counting the Fortran Compiler Manual and disk. I also have a Manual labeled Pascal that is still shrink wrapped I have not opened it to see what disks it contains. I believe I have purchased 2 partial sets of manuals and diskettes in the past, since neither of the purchases had 6 diskettes or 5 manuals. The shrink wrapped manual may contain all six disks, someone here in the forum may be able to answer what disks were packed in what manuals.

I have been told since I own the System, System-2 that has the interrupter, that I can take the disks say from an Apple II and transfer the programs over to an IBM diskette and they will run, I have not tried this.

I am a member of the UCSD Pascal yahoo group, most of the disks have been imaged and posted there for other machines including Version 4, but only the System 2 Pascal and Fortran disks for the IBM have been posted and I am the one who posted them there.

I sent you a private message, maybe between the two of us we can come up with a complete set of diskettes and manuals.

Jimmy

23562.