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snuci
May 10th, 2015, 06:19 AM
I have a Data I/O System 19 with various modules including the UniPak 1-006, Gang Pak, Programming Pak and LogicPak. I looked on Bitsavers and the manuals look like they're there but I don't see a device list. Does anyone have a listing they can share by chance?

Thank you.

dave_m
May 10th, 2015, 09:00 AM
I looked on Bitsavers and the manuals look like they're there but I don't see a device list.


The list should be towards the end of the users manuals. For example in Unipak manual 981-0003-002, the list is in Appendix A right after the Error Codes.

You might want to join the Data I/O Users Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Data_IO_EPROM/info

Data I/O burners are really great, but the Model 19 is super ancient. I hope you are only interested in EPROMs in the range of about 2708 to 27256. You might have been better off with a Model 29B with the latest revision of Unipak2B.

Malc
May 10th, 2015, 09:15 AM
Try the old Data I/O ftp site (https://web.archive.org/web/20050216184140/http://ftp.dataio.com/device_lists/_archive/) on archive org, there are device lists for the Gangpak, Logicpak, Unipak. Also Look here (https://web.archive.org/web/20100507135840/http://home.myfairpoint.net/mlps_vt/devices.htm) and you might want to join the Data I/O Group on Yahoo (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Data_IO_EPROM/info).

Malc
May 10th, 2015, 09:37 AM
....Data I/O burners are really great, but the Model 19 is super ancient.....

I've always liked the look of the system 19's and have several programming paks and adapters for the 19 which i got in a job lot a long time ago, I do agree though a 29b might have been better.

snuci
May 10th, 2015, 09:39 AM
Thanks guys. I'll take a better look at the docs. I, in fact, did buy it specifically for 2708 chips but I'm interested in seeing what these other modules can do. If I can do GALs, it would be a bonus. I think I might be able to with 303A-011A CMOS/BiPolar module in the LogicPak but I can't find the device lists. I should print the docs instead of browsing them on the computer. Unfortunately, the UniPak manual does not have finable text. For other devices, I have a MCU Mall GQ-4X that I have been using for a while now.

Thanks for the link to the Data I/O user group. That didn't come up in a search. I also appreciate the archive.org link. I checked their current ftp and documents site and there is nothing there (as expected).

I haven't quite figured out how to connect to it through a USB to Serial cable. That will be another question.

Thank you both.

dave_m
May 10th, 2015, 10:38 AM
I've always liked the look of the system 19's and have several programming paks and adapters for the 19 which i got in a job lot a long time ago...

I have to agree, I started out using a Data I/O Model 19 in the 1970's to program 32x8 PROMs at North American Rockwell and I always liked the looks of it and its ease of use. It was fun to use and sturdy as a brick you-know-what.
-Dave

dave_m
May 10th, 2015, 11:26 AM
If I can do GALs, it would be a bonus. I think I might be able to with 303A-011A CMOS/BiPolar module in the LogicPak

If the LogicPak came with a -011A adapter you are probably OK for GALs. The problem with old Data I/O machines is the firmware version. You need a LogicPak with firmware Version -04 (look at back of unit) to use the -011A adapter and you need update version -009 of that adapter to program the old GAL22V10. And Version -012 update of the adapter to program the GAL22V10B. Use <SELECT> key then 'EF' then <START> key to find the Version number of your 303A-011 adapter.



I haven't quite figured out how to connect to it through a USB to Serial cable. That will be another question.



You would have the best chance with an old PC with a real serial port. You would also use a null modem connector that crosses TX and RX, etc. I like to use their HiTerm DOS software to transfer binary, hex or JEDEC files.
-Dave

snuci
May 10th, 2015, 02:28 PM
If the LogicPak came with a -011A adapter you are probably OK for GALs. The problem with old Data I/O machines is the firmware version. You need a LogicPak with firmware Version -04 (look at back of unit) to use the -011A adapter and you need update version -009 of that adapter to program the old GAL22V10. And Version -012 update of the adapter to program the GAL22V10B. Use <SELECT> key then 'EF' then <START> key to find the Version number of your 303A-011 adapter.

When I do that, it reads 4684. However, there are stickers on the LogicPak (303A-V04) and the -011a adapter (303A-011a V13.0) I think I'm okay there if it should read "4684".





You would have the best chance with an old PC with a real serial port. You would also use a null modem connector that crosses TX and RX, etc. I like to use their HiTerm DOS software to transfer binary, hex or JEDEC files.
-Dave

I'll have to try that. I did try a null modem cable gender changer and got a couple of characters but that was it.

Thanks again.

dave_m
May 10th, 2015, 07:11 PM
When I do that, it reads 4684. However, there are stickers on the LogicPak (303A-V04) and the -011a adapter (303A-011a V13.0) I think I'm okay there if it should read "4684".

You are fine. V04 is the latest for the LogicPak and V13 for the 303A adapter will work for GALs and PALs. I think the 4684 is a configuration code. Apparently the Model 19 does not list the Version with a SELECT EF code like the Model 29.




I'll have to try that. I did try a null modem cable gender changer and got a couple of characters but that was it.



You are probably close then. Match the interface exactly with baud rate, parity and stop bits. For a quick test, put the Model 19 in remote mode ( SELECT F1 START for the 29B) and see if you get the > prompt on your PC terminal. If so, the data I/O and PC are talking and you are ready to go back to local control and try a data transfer.

snuci
May 11th, 2015, 02:47 AM
You are probably close then. Match the interface exactly with baud rate, parity and stop bits. For a quick test, put the Model 19 in remote mode ( SELECT F1 START for the 29B) and see if you get the > prompt on your PC terminal. If so, the data I/O and PC are talking and you are ready to go back to local control and try a data transfer.

When I use a straight USB to serial cable, I get nothing but I can do a SELECT F1 Start and I see the four "boxes". When add the null modem interface, I have to do SELECT F1 START (comes up blank) KEYBOARD then SELECT F1 START and I see the boxes. I hear a beep in TeraTerm and see some characters including a ">!" (if I recall) but I can't do anything.

I think I'm close. I appreciate the help. I am also now on the Yahoo group and have lots of reading to do :)

Malc
May 11th, 2015, 04:40 AM
IIRC the system 19 went through various upgrades and there were a few different model No's, Depending on your model No and upgrades / software installed it may or may not be possible to connect via computer remote / Terminal remote, Read through the posts pertaining to the system 19 as i'm sure the answer is there and i remember seeing software in the files section for the system 19.

snuci
May 11th, 2015, 05:43 AM
Yes, I just started to look at the Yahoo group this morning. Hopefully I can contribute newer firmware (if I can read the chips) as mine appears to be newer than what's in the Files section.

I also saw some firmware for the System 19 that will allow you to use Promlink? It's entitled, "ROM Images for the 1902 (PROMLINK compatible) version of the System 19 Programmer." That's interesting. Mine is a 990-1903 so I may be able to use PROMLINK? That would be a bonus. Could that be remotely related to why I can't talk directly to the programmer perhaps?

It's pretty interesting for an old programmer.

snuci
May 11th, 2015, 08:34 AM
Looks like i might need some 1902 EPROMs. Does the System 19 do TMS 2716's? I'm pretty sure my other programmer doesn't.

dave_m
May 11th, 2015, 10:19 AM
Mine is a 990-1903 so I may be able to use PROMLINK? That would be a bonus. Could that be remotely related to why I can't talk directly to the programmer perhaps?



No, you can always use the local mode with a PC or dumb terminal. One would set up the 19 to send, for example, Intel Hex format (SEL 83 START START), then get the PC ready to receive an ASCII file, then tell the 19 what to send with the COPY RAM <start address> <block size> to PORT sequence.

dave_m
May 11th, 2015, 10:32 AM
Looks like i might need some 1902 EPROMs. Does the System 19 do TMS 2716's? I'm pretty sure my other programmer doesn't.

Why 1902, the newer the better.

Yes the 19 will do 2704, 2708 and 2716 with no problems. Also the TMS 2516 and TMS 2532 used in Commodore PETs and many arcade games. The new USB programming gadgets sometimes have an issue the ancient EPROMs because they need a lot of juice, i.e, 25V @ 30 mA during the 50 mS programming pulse.

Malc
May 11th, 2015, 10:38 AM
All the Unipaks supported TMS2716's, The Model 1903 was Terminal Remote, First i would do as Dave suggested earlier, Use an older PC / Laptop with real serial ports and try connecting via HiTerm.

The Model 1902 was Computer Remote and worked with Promlink but an old version of promlink, You can use the Model 1903 with Promlink only if it has the 1902 software in it, But as i said i'd try HiTerm first.

snuci
May 11th, 2015, 01:45 PM
Well, I has some success on an old laptop. I don't think my cable is a null modem cable but I'm not sure. When I connect, I get:

DATA I/O CORP. TERMINAL REMOTE CONTROL
COPYRIGHT 1979 055-1903 REV D
>

I try "G" <ENTER> and get a beep. I type GG and I get a ?.

Unfortunately, that's the only terminal software I have on that laptop is SecureCRT. I don't think it does <CR> <LF> on hitting <ENTER> so I wonder if that's the issue with that. I'll try HiTerm later.

The Yahoo group indicates that there is PROMlink 3.x somewhere but I couldn't find it. I'd be curious just to see if it mught work but I suspect not.

Thanks again guys.

Malc
May 12th, 2015, 02:48 AM
I just had a look at what i have archived and have HiTerm V3.11 if you want a copy, Also have Promlink V2.6 - V3.1 and V3.4 which lists the System 19.

snuci
May 12th, 2015, 03:05 AM
PM sent. Thank you. I'll get this puppy running one way or another :)