PDA

View Full Version : Getting and using CP/M on a Kaypro II



KC9UDX
July 13th, 2015, 09:31 PM
I have a Kaypro II which came with two disks. One is a Kaypro Wordstar disk with funky track alignment, it is bootable. The other is a non bootable data disk.

I ordered two disks from an ebay seller. A CP/M system disk and a Wordstar disk. The Wordstar disk arrived and it's corrupt.

I know almost nothing about CP/M but I am very familiar with several other command line based operating systems.

What are my options for actually getting a system disk and where can I learn how to use it? I don't think I have enough parts to put together a PC with a 5.25 floppy. I can't find my Microsoft Softcard. I do have a working C128 and a 1571.

-Matt

Mike_Z
July 14th, 2015, 05:46 AM
You can get the 20K CP/M system on the internet. I have it and has made it work, with the help of people here on the forum. BUT, you will need to write a CBIOS for the Kaypro, if you don't have one. That's the rub. You have to know a lot of information regarding the hardware to write a CBIOS that will work with the CP/M system. It's not impossible, but can be a lot of work. I've been working on my 8080 machine for a couple years and am currently working on improving the error handling of the CBIOS and Cold Start Loader. Mike

glitch
July 14th, 2015, 06:29 AM
The easiest methods are going to be: making your own with a PC, or having someone here mail you known-good disks. The problem with mailing is there's always a risk of erasure, though nowadays it's a fairly slim chance.

I'd make you a set of working disks, but we're in the middle of a move and my Kaypro stuff is packed!

Chuck(G)
July 14th, 2015, 08:15 AM
I haven't checked, but isn't there a Kaypro II (not 2) image in the Don Maslin archive? It should be a simple matter to find someone with a PC and 5.25" drive to reconstruct it.

smp
July 14th, 2015, 08:32 AM
There is this auction on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAYPRO-10-BOOT-DISK-W-COMPLETE-SOFTWARE-TESTED-WORKS-/301180670925?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461fc453cd

Also, there is someone who occasionally posts his own created boot disks for Kaypro, Osborne, etc., but I do not find any posts from him today.

Good luck!

smp

UPDATE: Oooppps! sorry, those boot disks are for Kaypro 10, not yours.

JonB
July 14th, 2015, 08:36 AM
I haven't checked, but isn't there a Kaypro II (not 2) image in the Don Maslin archive? It should be a simple matter to find someone with a PC and 5.25" drive to reconstruct it.

http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kpro/index.html perhaps? What's the difference between Kaypro II and 2?

glitch
July 14th, 2015, 08:37 AM
Waitaminute, didn't the OP say in another, unrelated thread that he had a Windows box that could boot MS-DOS and had a real floppy controller? If that's the case, you should be able to pull a 5.25" drive from the Kaypro and use it with your PC to create Kaypro boot disks. The Kaypro II is double-density so most PC controllers should be able to write the format.

You may require rejumpering on the Kaypro floppy drive. I don't remember if they used the "PC twist" or regular shunt numbering. And of course the last drive in the chain must have a terminator (jumper or resistor pack) installed.

glitch
July 14th, 2015, 08:39 AM
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kpro/index.html perhaps? What's the difference between Kaypro II and 2?

The 2 '84 with a somewhat different machine, but in any case the disks for the II are available in the Maslin archive too. You want SSDD (Single Sided, Double Density)

KC9UDX
July 14th, 2015, 08:40 AM
I believe the C128 with 1571 can write a disk for the Kaypro II. Can anyone confirm this?

I can also connect the 1571 to an A2000 which currently has a 1541, but I don't think that would be useful in this case.

Chuck(G)
July 14th, 2015, 10:02 AM
The 2 '84 with a somewhat different machine, but in any case the disks for the II are available in the Maslin archive too. You want SSDD (Single Sided, Double Density)

Okay, here's a hole in my wetware--how did the Kaypro users' group when speaking (not writing) differentiate between the II and the 2? Did they, for instance, say "Kaypro eye-eye"?

Chuck(G)
July 14th, 2015, 10:03 AM
Waitaminute, didn't the OP say in another, unrelated thread that he had a Windows box that could boot MS-DOS and had a real floppy controller? If that's the case, you should be able to pull a 5.25" drive from the Kaypro and use it with your PC to create Kaypro boot disks. The Kaypro II is double-density so most PC controllers should be able to write the format.

You may require rejumpering on the Kaypro floppy drive. I don't remember if they used the "PC twist" or regular shunt numbering. And of course the last drive in the chain must have a terminator (jumper or resistor pack) installed.

The II, IIRC, did not use the twist in the cable. Plain old DS0 and DS1 for the floppies.

KC9UDX
July 14th, 2015, 10:10 AM
Waitaminute, didn't the OP say in another, unrelated thread that he had a Windows box that could boot MS-DOS and had a real floppy controller? If that's the case, you should be able to pull a 5.25" drive from the Kaypro and use it with your PC to create Kaypro boot disks. The Kaypro II is double-density so most PC controllers should be able to write the format.

You may require rejumpering on the Kaypro floppy drive. I don't remember if they used the "PC twist" or regular shunt numbering. And of course the last drive in the chain must have a terminator (jumper or resistor pack) installed.

The drive in the Kaypro does have a jumper block, and since I have two drives, I have jumpers for A and B.

The computer with the floppy controller isn't readily accessible for disassembly, else I might try that. The C128 isn't set up, but that would be a much easier route if possible.

KC9UDX
July 14th, 2015, 10:15 AM
Also, there is someone who occasionally posts his own created boot disks for Kaypro, Osborne, etc., but I do not find any posts from him today.

That may be the guy I've been dealing with (sort of). He has been pretty unresponsive. I ordered two disks from him and after some time have received one that doesn't work.

Speaking of that disk, I wonder if it's normal that it says "KAYPRO II 63k CP/M vers 2.2g" I assume that is a corrupted byte, as I find evidence of other data corruption. But, maybe that's normal.

The boot process hangs, but if I boot from the other disk that sort of works, I can start WordStar from this one and it displays corrupted text and then hangs.

commodorejohn
July 14th, 2015, 01:53 PM
Would the system disk for the Kaypro 2X be compatible? I'd be happy to roll you up a copy if it would.

KC9UDX
July 14th, 2015, 01:57 PM
That's a good question. I don't know much about these machines at all. Almost everything I know I learned in the last month or so, which isn't much.

geneb
July 16th, 2015, 02:13 PM
Go the Maslin boot disk archive on retroarchive.org and find the boot disk that matches the part number on the ROM in your Kaypro. That'll most likely work.

g.

smp
July 16th, 2015, 04:57 PM
Here are a couple of eBay auctions that you might take a chance on:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kaypro-2-Disks-set-4-disks-bootdisk-wordstar-ProfitPlan-kermit-games-disk-/261965772848?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cfe607830

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-KAYPRO-2-COMPLETE-SOFTWARE-SET-TESTED-WORKS-/301166291384?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461ee8e9b8

Good luck!

smp

phogren
July 16th, 2015, 05:47 PM
PM sent

KC9UDX
July 18th, 2015, 07:55 PM
Well I've commandeered the dining room table and set up the C128 and got CP/M Plus running on it. It's difficult to use in 40 columns (no RGBI monitor) but it works. However, it doesn't seem to want to read Kaypro formatted disks. It does seem to identify them (incorrectly) as "KAYPRO IV".

I wonder if it can't read the disks because it's trying to use both sides.

Beyond that I still haven't worked out how to create a Kaypro bootable disk.

KC9UDX
July 18th, 2015, 08:16 PM
OK, this is most interesting!

When the C128 says "KAYPRO IV", it's actually a prompt. I can change it to KAYPRO II, and read Kaypro disks just fine. I can even format them. Also, I have confirmed that I correctly aligned the drives in my Kaypro, because all the disks that work in that work in the 1571 and all that don't, don't.

Now all I need to do is figure out how to make a disk bootable, and also get the individual files to copy. As far as I can tell, I can't copy an entire disk at once.

KC9UDX
July 18th, 2015, 09:11 PM
Maybe the question I should be asking is,

Where can I get a .COM executable (to run on the Kaypro) of a program that will extract a TeleDisk (.TD0) file to a disk?

Chuck(G)
July 18th, 2015, 11:48 PM
Doesn't exist, AFAIK.

You can get IMD to extract a TD0 file to a raw binary, if that helps. How you get it to a disk is a different matter.

waltermixxx
July 27th, 2015, 03:59 AM
Would the system disk for the Kaypro 2X be compatible? I'd be happy to roll you up a copy if it would.

Hi Commodorejohn, tpug member here (Toronto pet users group), I just received a Kaypro 4 which boots up to the insert disk in drive a prompt, and it seems to be well taken care of. However it did not come with any floppy disks. I was wondering if you might extend the offer to create a couple of boot up disks for me as well. I would be happy to PayPal you what ever you see fit in compensation for disks and time, and as far as I know they should be compatible. I think the only difference is the built in modem. And if you are willing, perhaps the Kermit software as well so I could simply create additional disk on my own?

I am in Toronto,Canada and can provide an address once I figure out how to send a private message?

Or I can be reached via email at Walter.miraglia at gmail dot com if that is easier.

If you are unable to or unwilling, no problem. I thought I might ask.

Cheers!

waltermixxx
August 3rd, 2015, 06:45 AM
I managed to source some boot disks and other goodies from a TPug member locally. 30 minute drive, and most of what I needed. Cheers!

KC9UDX
August 3rd, 2015, 08:50 AM
Lucky duck!

I'm dead in the water. My one boot disk quit booting, and the eBay seller refunded me.

KC9UDX
December 2nd, 2016, 07:36 PM
Well I went through the trouble of digging out the PC, disassembling it, and disassembling the Kaypro.

This is one of the reasons I absolutely abhor PCs. Nothing ever just works.

34555

Now I have to decide if it's worth the 12 hours to put everything back, or just throw it out the window. :mad:

Chuck(G)
December 2nd, 2016, 08:44 PM
Teledisk doesn't run on NT or derivatives, whatever MS calls them. Never did. Run it under Win9x or MS-DOS. Honest, take it from me--like IMD, it depends on direct access to the FDC. NT can't provide that (without special drivers).

Bungo Pony
December 3rd, 2016, 05:29 AM
I have a Kaypro II myself and was able to make my own disks. What I did was download the images with a modern computer connected to the internet, then I used an old Windows ME to pull the files off my file server, and sent them over to my old XT through the serial port. I used the XT to make the actual disks that work 100% on my Kaypro. I can also use the XT to make disks for my TRS-80 Model III, along with probably a bunch of other vintage computers. My advice is, if you want to get into vintage computing and making your own disks, get yourself a decent working XT.

And if you're going to junk your Kaypro, send it my way ;)

KC9UDX
December 3rd, 2016, 06:49 AM
Teledisk doesn't run on NT or derivatives, whatever MS calls them. Never did. Run it under Win9x or MS-DOS. Honest, take it from me--like IMD, it depends on direct access to the FDC. NT can't provide that (without special drivers).

Oh, I understand. Teledisk is not the problem. The industry standard operating systems on these industry standard machines is. No matter what I'm trying to do, I always have the wrong motherboard with the wrong chipset, wrong processor, wrong operating system, etc.

KC9UDX
December 3rd, 2016, 06:54 AM
I have a Kaypro II myself and was able to make my own disks. What I did was download the images with a modern computer connected to the internet, then I used an old Windows ME to pull the files off my file server, and sent them over to my old XT through the serial port. I used the XT to make the actual disks that work 100% on my Kaypro. I can also use the XT to make disks for my TRS-80 Model III, along with probably a bunch of other vintage computers. My advice is, if you want to get into vintage computing and making your own disks, get yourself a decent working XT.

And if you're going to junk your Kaypro, send it my way ;)

I'm not going to junk the Kaypro. But I'm also not buying yet another PC for a special purpose. I already have three of them, and they are a royal pain.

Chuck(G)
December 3rd, 2016, 07:16 AM
Teledisk and DOS will easily fit on a boot floppy. If you've got your images on a FAT partition on the hard disk, it should be no problem. Once you've loaded TD you can use the drive to write your Kaypro disks. You can even put DOS and Teledisk and your images on a bootable USB flash drive.