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romanon
March 15th, 2016, 03:17 AM
Nice and clean. I've never seen IBM VGA in some of IBM PC's. Which monitor was supplied with IBM VGA? Some from PS/2 serries?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-Personal-Computer-XT-286-mit-Original-IBM-VGA-8-bit-80286-TOP-Zustand-/281964959883?hash=item41a66bd88b:g:GbQAAOSwu1VW5af U

fs5500
March 15th, 2016, 03:34 AM
Nice and clean. I've never seen IBM VGA in some of IBM PC's. Which monitor was supplied with IBM VGA? Some from PS/2 serries?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-Personal-Computer-XT-286-mit-Original-IBM-VGA-8-bit-80286-TOP-Zustand-/281964959883?hash=item41a66bd88b:g:GbQAAOSwu1VW5af U


The VGA card is 8bit/16bit IBM VGA compatible by Western Digital. (Not original IBM VGA)
But the text font is just identical to IBM original VGA.

romanon
March 15th, 2016, 04:42 AM
The VGA card is 8bit/16bit IBM VGA compatible by Western Digital. (Not original IBM VGA)
But the text font is just identical to IBM original VGA.

are you sure? Part number is same like on IBM VGA http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/video/IBM_VGA.jpg

fs5500
March 15th, 2016, 04:54 AM
are you sure? Part number is same like on IBM VGA http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/video/IBM_VGA.jpg


Oops, Sorry. I mistook to look HDC Controller as VGA.
Yes, HDC controller is made by WDC.

VGA card seems to be IBM, sorry again.

Scali
March 15th, 2016, 05:17 AM
Everyone, step away from the auction, slowly...! :)
I want this one :)

romanon
March 15th, 2016, 06:04 AM
Oops, Sorry. I mistook to look HDC Controller as VGA.
Yes, HDC controller is made by WDC.

VGA card seems to be IBM, sorry again.

HDD controller is also IBM - Made for IBM by Western Digital.
http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/cards/5170_hard_floppy_controller_second_revision_s.jpg

Great Hierophant
March 15th, 2016, 06:07 AM
The serial/parallel card is not an IBM card, nor is what appears to be a Hercules card. Nor is the keyboard, a real German Model M looks like this : http://i.imgur.com/Ixodn.jpg

romanon
March 15th, 2016, 06:08 AM
Everyone, step away from the auction, slowly...! :)
I want this one :)

Prepare to fight! :D

romanon
March 15th, 2016, 06:10 AM
The serial/parallel card is not an IBM card, nor is what appears to be a Hercules card. Nor is the keyboard, a real German Model M looks like this : http://i.imgur.com/Ixodn.jpg

Why should be model M with PS/2 connector supplied witx XT-286?
This is right model M with DIN connector - square IBM logo on the right http://web.tri-isys.com/audcom/Ibm/1390131B.jpg

amadama
March 15th, 2016, 09:49 AM
Why should be model M with PS/2 connector supplied witx XT-286?
This is right model M with DIN connector - square IBM logo on the right http://web.tri-isys.com/audcom/Ibm/1390131B.jpg

Close, the original keyboard sold with the 5162 has the square logo on top right and does not have the LED lights.:

30145

Stone
March 15th, 2016, 11:01 AM
That's the one I'm using right now -- No. 1390120.

And it doesn't have a fixed cable. It has an SDL connector and can accept either the PS/2 or the AT cable. I've sold dozens of those cables of both types, many here.

30146

amadama
March 15th, 2016, 11:13 AM
Yes, and this keyboard is usable on 5150 and 5160 as well.

Stone
March 15th, 2016, 11:35 AM
That's the good ole' Model M; a keyboard for all seasons.

romanon
March 15th, 2016, 12:50 PM
Yes, and this keyboard is usable on 5150 and 5160 as well.

Are you sure? I have one with LED lights, works fine on 5160, also 5170, but not on 5150

amadama
March 15th, 2016, 12:59 PM
Are you sure? I have one with LED lights, works fine on 5160, also 5170, but not on 5150

I'm talking about the one from my pic above (no LED).

Trixter
March 15th, 2016, 05:26 PM
Everyone, step away from the auction, slowly...! :)
I want this one :)


Prepare to fight! :D

Well, I hope SOMEONE gets it because it is a really wonderful 286 to work with. The 0-wait-state RAM is a huge speed boost; despite being a 6 MHz 286, the system performs like a typical 12MHz AT clone. It's one of the few pieces in my collection that I'll never sell.

Sir_Fartalot
March 15th, 2016, 07:09 PM
Interesting... why did IBM brand this an XT, I wonder. It has a 286, a high density floppy drive, and even 16 bit ISA slots.

amadama
March 15th, 2016, 07:23 PM
Interesting... why did IBM brand this an XT, I wonder. It has a 286, a high density floppy drive, and even 16 bit ISA slots.

Maybe to get rid of the XT case?
Check out the original review from InfoWorld:
https://books.google.com/books?id=MTwEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q&f=false

Shadow Lord
March 15th, 2016, 09:07 PM
Close, the original keyboard sold with the 5162 has the square logo on top right and does not have the LED lights.:

30145

No the original XT-286 IBM Model M (at least in the USA) is the 1390131 which has the LEDs. The one you pictures is 1390120 which was delivered with later model XTs (5160).

Sir_Fartalot
March 15th, 2016, 10:48 PM
Maybe to get rid of the XT case?
Check out the original review from InfoWorld:
https://books.google.com/books?id=MTwEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks.

Scali
March 15th, 2016, 11:53 PM
Interesting... why did IBM brand this an XT, I wonder. It has a 286, a high density floppy drive, and even 16 bit ISA slots.

Yes, it is fully compatible with the AT, hardware-wise. Also, it has zero-waitstate memory, making it faster than the AT with 1 waitstate.
So it is quite a peculiar machine.

Scali
March 15th, 2016, 11:59 PM
Well, I hope SOMEONE gets it because it is a really wonderful 286 to work with. The 0-wait-state RAM is a huge speed boost; despite being a 6 MHz 286, the system performs like a typical 12MHz AT clone. It's one of the few pieces in my collection that I'll never sell.

Yea, one reason I want it is the original IBM VGA card. Those are pretty rare. The only other way to get IBM VGA is to get a full PS/2 system. Which I may have to do someday, but first I need a PCjr :)

romanon
March 16th, 2016, 12:18 AM
Well, I hope SOMEONE gets it because it is a really wonderful 286 to work with. The 0-wait-state RAM is a huge speed boost; despite being a 6 MHz 286, the system performs like a typical 12MHz AT clone. It's one of the few pieces in my collection that I'll never sell.

Not realy, 5162 is pretty close to 5170-III. Here are my results:

IBM 5170-I
30150

IBM 5170-III
30151

my friends IBM 5162
30152

amadama
March 16th, 2016, 04:33 AM
No the original XT-286 IBM Model M (at least in the USA) is the 1390131 which has the LEDs. The one you pictures is 1390120 which was delivered with later model XTs (5160).

Ok, thanks. This is good information.

Good luck to the person winning this 5162. It's a nice machine.

Sir_Fartalot
March 16th, 2016, 02:06 PM
What do you ladies and gents predict this computer will sell for? Let's see whose guess is closest. We have three days left.

Stone
March 16th, 2016, 02:56 PM
What do you ladies and gents predict this computer will sell for? Let's see whose guess is closest. We have three days left.Predictions?

Are you that bored?

Geez...

bobba84
March 16th, 2016, 04:40 PM
What do you ladies and gents predict this computer will sell for? Let's see whose guess is closest. We have three days left.

My guess is 220 Euro's! No idea why!

SpidersWeb
March 16th, 2016, 06:42 PM
My limit would be NZD300 if it was local - which is about 180 euro.

So I'm going to guess 180. But it only takes two rich guys for things to get crazy.

bobba84
March 16th, 2016, 07:04 PM
it only takes two rich guys for things to get crazy.

LOL! :p

romanon
March 16th, 2016, 11:38 PM
Price will be higher i think. Few days ago, IBM 5150 with non IBM keyboard was sold for 301€!!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Original-IBM-PC-5150-256-KB-mit-Monochrom-Monitor-5151-Test-OK-/201536469220?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=7o9Q%252FjBn3LYzYmGA2Y7LCbWFzbs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

nestor
March 17th, 2016, 05:21 AM
I think I will save my IBMs 5140, 5150, 5160, 5162, 5170, PS/1s and PS/2s for my retirement :D

Sir_Fartalot
March 17th, 2016, 07:05 AM
Price will be higher i think. Few days ago, IBM 5150 with non IBM keyboard was sold for 301!!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Original-IBM-PC-5150-256-KB-mit-Monochrom-Monitor-5151-Test-OK-/201536469220?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=7o9Q%252FjBn3LYzYmGA2Y7LCbWFzbs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I think that IBM 5150 was a bargain at EUR 300.

As for this auction, I'll say it goes for EUR 250.

Trixter
March 17th, 2016, 09:56 AM
Not realy, 5162 is pretty close to 5170-III.

That's not what TOPBENCH found, so I had a closer look at the raw statistics. The TOPBENCH score, it turns out, was boosted by a much faster video card than the other systems, so that is what affected the score so much. The memory- and cpu-only stats were:



Name
Score
usecMemTest
usecOpcodes
usecMemEA
usec3DGames
Total
Percent of 6MHz AT
CPU
MHz


IBM PC/AT
11
1245
542
705
526
3018
100.0
Intel 80286
6


IBM PC/XT-286
18
1036
406
502
425
2369
127.4
Intel 80286
6


IBM PC/AT 319 or 339, 8MHz
13
923
397
514
388
2222
135.8
Intel 80286
8


IBM PS/2 Model 30-286
17
736
313
408
307
1764
171.1
Intel 80286
10



So the XT-286 is roughly the same speed as a 8MHz AT, once videocard RAM speed is removed from the equation.

This marks the second time in 24 hours a long-standing belief of mine was corrected, and with a small amount of irony, by my own tool. Well, it's better to know the truth than live in ignorance!

Shadow Lord
March 17th, 2016, 10:36 AM
So the XT-286 is roughly the same speed as a 8MHz AT, once videocard RAM speed is removed from the equation.


That would be consistent with the original InfoWorld review linked earlier in the thread.

romanon
March 17th, 2016, 12:15 PM
Another one, for $399

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM-XT-286-PERSONAL-COMPUTER-5162-FREE-SHIPPING-/322042577552?hash=item4afb3bc290:g:4lsAAOSwr7ZW6d2 f

Trixter
March 17th, 2016, 01:18 PM
That would be consistent with the original InfoWorld review linked earlier in the thread.

True, but when I wrote TOPBENCH I started by making sure I understood how most other benchmarks worked, and after I found out most of them are terrible, I stopped trusting magazine reviews that mentioned speed comparisons (especially if they quoted of-the-time benchmark results). I'm happy to be proven wrong; this is (in my experience) a rare example of a magazine review being correct.

Despite the new speed rating and negative review, the XT-286 remains one of my favorite systems.

Sir_Fartalot
March 17th, 2016, 02:42 PM
Another one, for $399

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM-XT-286-PERSONAL-COMPUTER-5162-FREE-SHIPPING-/322042577552?hash=item4afb3bc290:g:4lsAAOSwr7ZW6d2 f

Only this one you have no idea whether it works or not. My experience with eBay has taught me that "not tested" is synonym with "actually broken but with plausible deniability". Not worth it for $400.

Trixter
March 17th, 2016, 04:26 PM
Only this one you have no idea whether it works or not. My experience with eBay has taught me that "not tested" is synonym with "actually broken but with plausible deniability". Not worth it for $400.

Agreed. Price is way to high for someone who couldn't be bothered to at pleast plug a VGA card + monitor into it to see if it POSTs.

vwestlife
March 17th, 2016, 07:25 PM
Agreed. Price is way to high for someone who couldn't be bothered to at pleast plug a VGA card + monitor into it to see if it POSTs.

It looks like the existing video card has a composite output (the RCA jack on the circuit board inside), so it could be connected to a TV for testing, at least after some DIP switch or jumper twiddling.

Shadow Lord
March 18th, 2016, 12:10 AM
Only this one you have no idea whether it works or not. My experience with eBay has taught me that "not tested" is synonym with "actually broken but with plausible deniability". Not worth it for $400.

And it is lacking many original parts. The PSU looks like an after market as does the video card. The unit itself is not in great shape either....

Sir_Fartalot
March 19th, 2016, 09:17 AM
And here's yet another one:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-Personal-Computer-XT-286-Vintage-/262333857676?hash=item3d1450ff8c:g:N10AAOSwJkJWi67 D

romanon
March 19th, 2016, 08:57 PM
It seems like 5162 is not so very rare even though was produced only 15.000 pieces. Instead of, IBM 5150(A) is rare as hell even though was more produced...

Sir_Fartalot
March 20th, 2016, 01:07 AM
It seems like 5162 is not so very rare even though was produced only 15.000 pieces. Instead of, IBM 5150(A) is rare as hell even though was more produced...

I think the IBM 5150 became very obsolete very fast: as a young network engineer, I worked at a banking institution that got rid of all their 5150 by way of brutal annihilation because they were taking up room in the warehouse and were deemed unusable for any task, practically un-networkable, woefully under-powered. The AT-class machines maintained their usefulness for much, much longer. The 16 bit ISA bus and a CPU performance that crossed into the sweet spot, made a lot of difference. The various AT-class computers were still very much in use when I ****ed off from there in 1997.

Trixter
March 20th, 2016, 08:20 AM
Additionally, many IBM "failures" made their way into the hands of IBM employees at massive discounts. I obtained my XT-286 from a former Boca Raton employee in the late 1990s, and my initial PCjr stash also came from an IBM employee.

romanon
March 20th, 2016, 09:51 AM
End of auction, final price is 353,99€!!!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/281964959883?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true

Scali
March 20th, 2016, 10:04 AM
Good price for the item perhaps, but certainly way more than I was willing to spend on it. I stopped at 150 euros (which was the highest bid until about 2 minutes before the end).

Sir_Fartalot
March 20th, 2016, 10:15 AM
Good price for the item perhaps, but certainly way more than I was willing to spend on it. I stopped at 150 euros (which was the highest bid until about 2 minutes before the end).

Was it really? Wow! So most of the price was accrued in the last 2 minutes. EUR 354 seems a bit much. I predicted EUR 250.