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ianoid
May 11th, 2016, 12:13 PM
Is this a good IDE to CF adapter setup, and is it a reasonable price? Is there another unit that forum members here recommend?

http://r.ebay.com/UxdLs6

or item#172203009082 for the link wary.

Thanks,

ian

Malc
May 11th, 2016, 12:51 PM
Personally i think it's very expensive, If you're handy with a soldering iron you can build one your self a lot cheaper, See Lo-Tech (https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/product/lo-tech-isa-compactflash-pcb/)for the PCB

bjt
May 11th, 2016, 02:10 PM
And for that price you don't even get the activity LED or XT Slot 8 support.

If you want one pre-assembled they are being sold on Amibay a bit cheaper. The CF adaptor, card and cable can be sourced from eBay cheaply.
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?81846

Stone
May 11th, 2016, 02:28 PM
IMO you're better off with a DOM. Then you only need the XTIDE card. No CF adapter is necessary. Besides, DOMs are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less fickle than CF cards.

glitch
May 11th, 2016, 05:52 PM
I'm doing a run of XT-IDE boards, lots of mechanical changes resulting in a rev 3 board. The boards should be $10-15 for a bare board, I'm going to sell parts kits and fully assembled/tested units as well. Price seems high for what it is. I also agree with using DOMs instead, and will be providing them as well.

See this thread for more info and preorder link:

www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?52343-Anyone-Selling-XT-IDE-Cards

Osgeld
May 11th, 2016, 06:13 PM
I have had very good luck with cf to ide adapters from eBay its always the cards that let me down

It's got to be in a specific mode to work as a non removable drive and good luck

Get a disk on module(Dom)

Great Hierophant
May 11th, 2016, 06:37 PM
IMO you're better off with a DOM. Then you only need the XTIDE card. No CF adapter is necessary. Besides, DOMs are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less fickle than CF cards.

I agree that a DOM has certain advantages over a CF card, but they aren't as easy to access. In my PCjr. I have had nothing but trouble with a PQI DOM. My CF card had no issues and they are easier to find new.

Stone
May 11th, 2016, 07:15 PM
I agree that a DOM has certain advantages over a CF card, but they aren't as easy to access. In my PCjr. I have had nothing but trouble with a PQI DOM. My CF card had no issues and they are easier to find new.I've been using a 2GB DOM for a couple of years in my tweener without any issues whatsoever. The guy I got it from on eBay is still selling this DOM and it's even cheaper now -- under $15 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261568345698?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT).

Stone
May 11th, 2016, 07:20 PM
The boards should be $10-15 for a bare board, I'm going to sell parts kits and fully assembled/tested units as well.I've seen your price estimates for boards, kits, etc., but you didn't mention what you might be looking to get for the fully assembled units. Care to take a stab at this? I can't put one together. :-)

bjt
May 12th, 2016, 02:14 AM
I have had very good luck with cf to ide adapters from eBay its always the cards that let me down

It's got to be in a specific mode to work as a non removable drive and good luck

Get a disk on module(Dom)

Yep I use DOMs with both of my XT-IDE setups due to weird data corruption issues with IDE->CF adaptors.

Malc
May 12th, 2016, 02:41 AM
I don't own any DOMs, I've never had any major problems using CF, CF is cheap and it makes it so easy to transfer files from my main PC to my old PC / XT's, Maybe I've just been lucky.

pearce_jj
May 12th, 2016, 04:31 AM
Yep I use DOMs with both of my XT-IDE setups due to weird data corruption issues with IDE->CF adaptors.

If you're talking about the original XTIDE board, there are two potential issues - first, that CompactFlash is a CMOS specification and therefore transceivers need to be HCT type, and secondly the timing in the 16-to-8 MUX in that design is not to specification. Furthermore CF-to-IDE adapters sometimes implement card power supply very badly.

DDS
May 12th, 2016, 05:25 AM
I have a Lo-Tech XT-IDE -> IDE-CF setup I bought from a guy on our favorite auction site. As received it works like a champ in my IBM 5160. No problems whatsoever. The "fly in the soup" that makes it less than perfect was finding additional CF cards that would work with it for backup purposes. Of the 10 or so CF cards of various sizes I regularly use with my DSLR, only one identifies itself on boot and then only part of the time. Of the two recommended Samsung cards I bought at a big box store, neither identify at all. I backed up a step and identified the origin of the 1M card that came with my unit and ordered 5 1M cards and 5 2M cards from them. Out of the stack I received, one card identifies.

Keep in mind that the CF card was not designed as a replacement for a vintage hard drive. So the fact that they sometimes work in that application is just our good luck. OTOH, my understanding is that the DOM was designed as a hard drive replacement. As it is, I now have what I need to do what I want with my 5160. However, as soon as time allows me to cycle back to this issue I plan to order a few DOM's to try out.

bjt
May 12th, 2016, 06:07 AM
If you're talking about the original XTIDE board, there are two potential issues - first, that CompactFlash is a CMOS specification and therefore transceivers need to be HCT type, and secondly the timing in the 16-to-8 MUX in that design is not to specification. Furthermore CF-to-IDE adapters sometimes implement card power supply very badly.

The ones I have are this type:
https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_ISA_CompactFlash_Adapter_revision_2

Still don't know what the problem was, but depending on the CF card and the adaptor I used the card would not be recognised either all the time or occasionally.
I also saw random garbage in the CF Card identification string and a case where I was able to boot from CF but not to write anything.
I now use the PQI Industrial DOMs plugged directly into the ISA card and have no issues.

Stone
May 12th, 2016, 06:07 AM
That 2GB DOM I mentioned in my previous post is a deal at under $15 and the same place currently has an 8GB DOM for under $25.

pearce_jj
May 12th, 2016, 11:01 AM
Keep in mind that the CF card was not designed as a replacement for a vintage hard drive. So the fact that they sometimes work in that application is just our good luck.

Of course DoM (that supports ATA-2) is a very convenient solution if data exchange is less of a requirement, but I don't concur with the above since CompactFlash IDE mode is a full T13 compliant implementation, albeit with CMOS levels as mentioned. Conversely DoM are typically TTL (eg this (http://www2.advantech.com/embcore/images/PDM/Advantech%20SQFlash_PDM_DS_v0.7_20100409_SQF-PDM.pdf)) and sometimes implement SMART.

As mentioned already, many of the IDE-to-CF adapters are the source of compatibility issues (perhaps 90%), the remainder being occasionally we come across CF cards that don't correctly implement 8-bit mode. The issue with the adapters is that the 5V power is delivered through a diode, actually at about 4.3V - which is totally out of spec for either 3V3 or 5V operation. Cards from all the common brands - SanDisk, Transcend, Hitachi, PQI and Kingston to name just a few - have been pattern tested for hundreds of hours on these adapters.

DDS
May 12th, 2016, 02:44 PM
Of course DoM (that supports ATA-2) is a very convenient solution if data exchange is less of a requirement, but I don't concur with the above since CompactFlash IDE mode is a full T13 compliant implementation, albeit with CMOS levels as mentioned. Conversely DoM are typically TTL (eg this (http://www2.advantech.com/embcore/images/PDM/Advantech%20SQFlash_PDM_DS_v0.7_20100409_SQF-PDM.pdf)) and sometimes implement SMART.

As mentioned already, many of the IDE-to-CF adapters are the source of compatibility issues (perhaps 90%), the remainder being occasionally we come across CF cards that don't correctly implement 8-bit mode. The issue with the adapters is that the 5V power is delivered through a diode, actually at about 4.3V - which is totally out of spec for either 3V3 or 5V operation. Cards from all the common brands - SanDisk, Transcend, Hitachi, PQI and Kingston to name just a few - have been pattern tested for hundreds of hours on these adapters.

Now that got my attention. ;-)

Given that these adapters tend to come from the same country that produces some great stuff, like my Thinkpad laptop, but also exports baby formula with melamine in it, its understandable that some of these adapters might not be up to snuff. That leads me to ask, are they fixable? Or do you trash the one you have and buy another? Which ones are known to work and which are junk?

Chuck(G)
May 12th, 2016, 03:54 PM
And there are always microdrives, if you want a real disk. One has been running on a small server since 2009 24/7.

pearce_jj
May 13th, 2016, 03:16 AM
Most adapters aren't branded unfortunately. Though you can tell by following the power header through the voltage select jumper and on to the VCC line eventually feeding the CF card (and also IDE pin 20, if you are using that). The path should be free of any components at 5V, anything there can be just shorted around with a jumper cable. Also most the time these PCBs have an unpopulated electrolytic on them, you could try adding a 10uF 16V for example. And finally, be sure to use only HCT transceiver.

Nice run hours there Chuck! Though the drive has probably survived so long because they auto-stop after 2 seconds unless you've told it not to.

Jimmy
May 13th, 2016, 06:42 AM
This price seems high, even $99.00 for just the board seems expensive.

Chuck(G)
May 13th, 2016, 06:54 AM
Nice run hours there Chuck! Though the drive has probably survived so long because they auto-stop after 2 seconds unless you've told it not to.

I don't know what Linux tells it to do, but it's on my mailserver here, so it gets plenty of use. (Don't worry; it's backed up regularly!) Running, I think, Debian 4.0 on a Neoware thin client.