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nc_mike
June 9th, 2016, 07:17 PM
I have a DTK-100 40 MHz 486SLC AT-like clone. It currently has a 116MB Connor HDD. I'd like to replace it using an XT-IDE and boot from a 1GB CF card I have. Since the machine has a 1992 AMIBIOS, will I need to specify HDD parameters in the machine's BIOS for 1GB CF card if it is being driven off of the XT-IDE adapter, and if so, what parameters do I use to get it to use its full capacity (cyl, heads etc)? or, because I'll be using an XT-IDE with its own BIOS, do I just disable the HDD in the BIOS since I'll not be driving the CF off of a regular IDE interface?

Regards,
Mike

Chuck(G)
June 9th, 2016, 08:21 PM
I'd first try setting the planar BIOS to "no drive" and allowing the XT-IDE BIOS determine the CF's geometry.

Before that, I'd ask myself why I'm bothering with an XT-IDE, when CF adapters for traditional IDE controllers are silly cheap.

archeocomp
June 9th, 2016, 10:26 PM
But then, with a CF adapter he will need geometry parameters:-) I did use modern PC to find out that info. Linux command fdisk -l, sfdisk -l should show disk geometry.

konc
June 10th, 2016, 12:44 AM
Using some XT-IDE with its own BIOS, doesn't require setting anything in the PC's BIOS.
Using a CF adapter in the motherboard's IDE connectors, requires specifying the disk in BIOS.

With the latter, there are many tricky cases for older PCs, especially if you go with a new and large CF card. Two quick examples
-PCs that don't support LBA
-Getting the params of the CF from a modern system, but when trying to set them in the old one finding out that the values are not valid for it, like not accepting a 4-digit cylinders number
You can always bypass those by using a smaller size card or a DDO (sacrificing portability).

Malc
June 10th, 2016, 01:23 AM
Using some XT-IDE with its own BIOS, doesn't require setting anything in the PC's BIOS.

When using the XT-IDE Universal Bios the hard drive should be set to 'None' in the PC's Bios giving the XUB control and avoiding any issues that can occur.

nc_mike
June 10th, 2016, 02:20 AM
When using the XT-IDE Universal Bios the hard drive should be set to 'None' in the PC's Bios giving the XUB control and avoiding any issues that can occur.

I'll try specifying no drive and see if the XT-IDE works by itself.

Thanks,
Mike

Krille
June 10th, 2016, 05:22 AM
I have a DTK-100 40 MHz 486SLC AT-like clone. It currently has a 116MB Connor HDD. I'd like to replace it using an XT-IDE and boot from a 1GB CF card I have.

As others have said, disable the drive in the system BIOS. Then install a ROM with XTIDE Universal BIOS in a free ROM socket somewhere (a NIC perhaps?). You don't need an XT-IDE card for this, just buy a CF-adapter on ebay and connect it to the harddrive controller you're using now.

nc_mike
June 10th, 2016, 05:58 AM
I just so happen to have two unused XT-IDE cards, so I just plugged in one of them, hooked up the CF-adapter with a 1GB CF card, disabled the HDD in the on-board BIOS and it booted right up off of the CF card at full capacity - a cinch. Thank you.

Regards,
Mike

Chuck(G)
June 10th, 2016, 06:35 AM
But then, with a CF adapter he will need geometry parameters:-) I did use modern PC to find out that info. Linux command fdisk -l, sfdisk -l should show disk geometry.

Some BIOSes will query the IDE/CF drive and use the returned parameters. Small enough CFs should be pretty easy to find if the 1GB is too large. Regardless, since the onboard controller is 16-bit, performance will probably be better than the XT-IDE. There are DOS-based tools to discover geometry in any case--no need to use Linux.

Just a thought...

archeocomp
June 10th, 2016, 08:59 AM
Yep, I just needed to discover geometry of small CF drive and google returned some Linux commands and I had dual boot box at a time. Today I would have to either search for Win solution or resort to my 286, but I am not aware of what DOS tool could discover geometry.

Stone
June 10th, 2016, 09:46 AM
I use IDTHEIDE to disclose the following:


Information returned from the drive includes the following:

1. Drive manufacturer and model number.
2. Drive serial number.
3. Firmware revision.
4. Buffer size.
5. Controller type.
6. Buffer type (only one of the following possible):
1. Single ported single sector buffer without
simultaneous transfers to or from the host
and disk.
2. Dual ported multiple sector buffer with
simultaneous transfers to or from the host
and disk.
3. Dual ported multiple sector buffer capable
of simultaneous transfers and read cacheing.
4. Not specified.
7. Number of cylinders.
8. Number of heads.
9. Number of sects/track.
10. Number of bytes/track.
11. Number of bytes/sect.
12. Number of ECC bytes.
13. Multiple command block size.
14. DMA cycle timing mode.
15. PIO cycle timing mode.
16. Doubleword I/O support.
17. Other information (any of the following possible):
- Not a magnetic disk drive.
- Format speed tolerance gap required.
- Track offset option available.
- Data strobe offset option available.
- Motor speed tolerence > 0.5% & < 1%.
- Disk transfer rate > 10Mb/s.
- Disk transfer rate > 5Mb/s & <= 10Mb/s.
- Disk transfer rate <= 5Mb/s.
- Removable cartridge drive.
- Fixed disk drive.
- Spindle motor control option available.
- Head switch time > 15us.
- Not MFM encoded.
- Soft sectored.
- Hard sectored.

nc_mike
June 10th, 2016, 10:04 AM
I use IDTHEIDE to disclose the following:


Information returned from the drive includes the following:

1. Drive manufacturer and model number.
2. Drive serial number.
3. Firmware revision.
4. Buffer size.
5. Controller type.
6. Buffer type (only one of the following possible):
1. Single ported single sector buffer without
simultaneous transfers to or from the host
and disk.
2. Dual ported multiple sector buffer with
simultaneous transfers to or from the host
and disk.
3. Dual ported multiple sector buffer capable
of simultaneous transfers and read cacheing.
4. Not specified.
7. Number of cylinders.
8. Number of heads.
9. Number of sects/track.
10. Number of bytes/track.
11. Number of bytes/sect.
12. Number of ECC bytes.
13. Multiple command block size.
14. DMA cycle timing mode.
15. PIO cycle timing mode.
16. Doubleword I/O support.
17. Other information (any of the following possible):
- Not a magnetic disk drive.
- Format speed tolerance gap required.
- Track offset option available.
- Data strobe offset option available.
- Motor speed tolerence > 0.5% & < 1%.
- Disk transfer rate > 10Mb/s.
- Disk transfer rate > 5Mb/s & <= 10Mb/s.
- Disk transfer rate <= 5Mb/s.
- Removable cartridge drive.
- Fixed disk drive.
- Spindle motor control option available.
- Head switch time > 15us.
- Not MFM encoded.
- Soft sectored.
- Hard sectored.

Sounds useful! May I inquire - where can I find IDTHEIDE?

Regards,
Mike

Stone
June 10th, 2016, 10:23 AM
It's by Quantum Corporation and I've had it for over 25 years.

If it doesn't turn up anywhere lemme know and I'll send you a DropBox link.

Chuck(G)
June 10th, 2016, 10:33 AM
Seagate has a similar utility. I think you can find it on their ftp site. Or you could check posts here for IDESDI, which I've posted several times.

Agent Orange
June 10th, 2016, 11:03 AM
This may or may not be what you are looking for:

Recently, this past week, I've been playing with my 386/40 and attempted to install a SanDisk Ultra CF card (4 GB) which is partitioned down to about 2 GB each. The BIOS in this old girl is AMI from 1993. When I select 'Auto Detect Hard Drive' from the BIOS menu this is what I see from the CF card:

Hard Disk C: Type: 47-USER TYPE Cyln = 7751 Head = 16 WPcom = 65535 L Zone = 7751 Sect = 63 Size 3815 MB

In a previous thread I complained that the CF card wasn't performing as expected; i.e., some minor glitches in some files and programs. The OS in question on that CF card was MS-DOS 6.22. I had previously partitioned the CF card for 2 GB for the primary and the rest of the 4 GB went to the extended partition. Maybe I made a rookie mistake. After further review, (eh) it seems that the primary partition was actually a little over the 2 GB DOS limit, about 2.1 GB instead of 2 GB. In my way of thinking, this may have been enough to throw things ever so slightly out of whack. So, what I'm doing now is FDISK'ing the CF to 1.9 GB in the primary and we'll see how it goes. My CF card adapter has a garden variety IDE header and powers up via a floppy drive type power connector. So, the PC's BIOS is able to find the CF automatically and render the required setting. On the other hand, I also have one of the first (Hargle special) XT-IDE adapters. This one was slapped into my 1000SX and it just runs. I'm betting that if your BIOS has the hard drive search feature, you'll be all set and won't have to fiddle with the settings. I didn't men to steal your thread, just thought a little background on some the problems with CF cards might be helpful.

nc_mike
June 11th, 2016, 03:06 AM
This may or may not be what you are looking for:

Recently, this past week, I've been playing with my 386/40 and attempted to install a SanDisk Ultra CF card (4 GB) which is partitioned down to about 2 GB each. The BIOS in this old girl is AMI from 1993. When I select 'Auto Detect Hard Drive' from the BIOS menu this is what I see from the CF card:

Hard Disk C: Type: 47-USER TYPE Cyln = 7751 Head = 16 WPcom = 65535 L Zone = 7751 Sect = 63 Size 3815 MB

In a previous thread I complained that the CF card wasn't performing as expected; i.e., some minor glitches in some files and programs. The OS in question on that CF card was MS-DOS 6.22. I had previously partitioned the CF card for 2 GB for the primary and the rest of the 4 GB went to the extended partition. Maybe I made a rookie mistake. After further review, (eh) it seems that the primary partition was actually a little over the 2 GB DOS limit, about 2.1 GB instead of 2 GB. In my way of thinking, this may have been enough to throw things ever so slightly out of whack. So, what I'm doing now is FDISK'ing the CF to 1.9 GB in the primary and we'll see how it goes. My CF card adapter has a garden variety IDE header and powers up via a floppy drive type power connector. So, the PC's BIOS is able to find the CF automatically and render the required setting. On the other hand, I also have one of the first (Hargle special) XT-IDE adapters. This one was slapped into my 1000SX and it just runs. I'm betting that if your BIOS has the hard drive search feature, you'll be all set and won't have to fiddle with the settings. I didn't men to steal your thread, just thought a little background on some the problems with CF cards might be helpful.

Good info. Let us know how the re-partitioning works.

Regards,
Mike