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giobbi
July 28th, 2016, 07:55 PM
Hi all,

I apologize if this question was already posted in past, but the search function didn't return a useful result...

I have an Osborne 1 with SS-SD disks. I would use the 22disk to transfer software from my IBM XT to the Osborne, but unfortunately 22disk only operate with SS-DD disks.

I decided to try the serial port transfer. I found this article:

http://www.toniwestbrook.com/archives/80

that's quite interesting, but unfortunately it isn't a fully step-by-step instruction.

Does anybody has some specific instructions for that? I know nothing about CP/M, and I was looking for some dummy-proof instructions, like:
"1) type this on the DOS side... 2) type this on the Osborne side... You've done!"

In the specific, I don't know what software should I use neither on the XT (Telix? Laplink? Debug.com?), nor on the Osborne (PIP?).
Also, I don't know how to set the com speed on the Osborne...

Thank you for you help!

Giovi

tezza
July 28th, 2016, 08:32 PM
Just on the PC/XT side...Procomm or Telix should do the job. The Osborne side....hmm....Kermit? I managed to get my Kaypro talking to my PC with Kermit.

Tez

Chuck(G)
July 28th, 2016, 09:08 PM
It's not that 22Disk operates only with DD disks--it's that your XT controller is not capable of writing or reading SD (FM). Some third-party XT controllers are however.

Does your O1 have the DD mod installed, perchance? 22Disk can certainly write the SSDD floppies on your XT. The SSSD O1 floppies didn't hold much--about 90KB.

ef1j91
July 28th, 2016, 11:36 PM
I've had pretty good results using OTERM by Michael Rubinstein on the OCC as a terminal, but I haven't tried to transfer files with it. I haven't gotten Kermit to work (but also haven't tried very hard.) The last Kermit version I tried turned both disk drive motors on and made the piezo buzz continuously. Strange and alarming.

Randy McLaughlin
July 29th, 2016, 07:56 AM
Serial port transfers require that you already have your Osborne booting, if so yes serial transfers are best since you don't have to find an old PC that handles SD.

There are lots of serial transfer programs. It is a chicken or the egg issue in getting software transferred the first time.

My favorite method to get software onto a CP/M machine the is to convert the program to ascii (bin2hex, unload, etc). This gives you 2 important abilities: Each line has a checksum which will let you know if there is an error and it's 7-bit so if the BIOS strips the 8th bit no biggie.

Often the serial port is referred to as RDR: and PUN: (paper tape reader and punch), I'm not sure if that's true with the Osborne. Assuming it is to transfer a hex file to the Osborne just use pip:

Start with a slow baud rate and set both the Osborne and the PC to the same speed, just use 300 baud - no reason to go faster and that helps to guarantee no lost characters.

On the Osborne side type "pip x:filename.hex=rdr:" where x is the desired drive (A or B) and filename is obviously the file name.

After the Osborne is ready on the PC side send the hex file via hyperterm or your favorite terminal emulater. Now just wait until done then type Control-Z on the PC side (Control-Z id end-of-file character for CP/M).

On the Osborne side pip should close and you should have the hex file.

Now just using the CP/M load program you can convert the HEX file to a COM file (ie load filename.hex)

Now you have a new program on the Osborne side.

My favorite serial file transfer program is move-it (http://www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/MOVE-IT.ZIP has CP/M-80, CP/M-86, and PC-DOS versions and manual).

Move-it can be controlled from either computer and can handle higher than 300 baud transfers (you have to experiment to find highest working baudrate).

Move-it is not for BBS type stuff but is a special purpose program to transfer files quickly between two computers near each other. It is menu driven with the ability to pull up directories of either computer from either computer and control everything from either computer.


The big trick is the chicken or egg issue to transfer programs first you must transfer a program.

Also note the MOVE-IT.ZIP file needs to be expanded on you PC first.

Move-it also requires a PC with a real serial port and not a USB to serial adapter. If that's not an option then you will need to use one of the many other programs.


Randy

giobbi
July 29th, 2016, 02:49 PM
No, it hasn't. Just SS-SD :-(

giobbi
July 29th, 2016, 03:00 PM
Serial port transfers require that you already have your Osborne booting, if so yes serial transfers are best since you don't have to find an old PC that handles SD.

There are lots of serial transfer programs. It is a chicken or the egg issue in getting software transferred the first time.

My favorite method to get software onto a CP/M machine the is to convert the program to ascii (bin2hex, unload, etc). This gives you 2 important abilities: Each line has a checksum which will let you know if there is an error and it's 7-bit so if the BIOS strips the 8th bit no biggie.

Often the serial port is referred to as RDR: and PUN: (paper tape reader and punch), I'm not sure if that's true with the Osborne. Assuming it is to transfer a hex file to the Osborne just use pip:

Start with a slow baud rate and set both the Osborne and the PC to the same speed, just use 300 baud - no reason to go faster and that helps to guarantee no lost characters.

On the Osborne side type "pip x:filename.hex=rdr:" where x is the desired drive (A or B) and filename is obviously the file name.

After the Osborne is ready on the PC side send the hex file via hyperterm or your favorite terminal emulater. Now just wait until done then type Control-Z on the PC side (Control-Z id end-of-file character for CP/M).

On the Osborne side pip should close and you should have the hex file.

Now just using the CP/M load program you can convert the HEX file to a COM file (ie load filename.hex)

Now you have a new program on the Osborne side.

My favorite serial file transfer program is move-it (http://www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/MOVE-IT.ZIP has CP/M-80, CP/M-86, and PC-DOS versions and manual).

Move-it can be controlled from either computer and can handle higher than 300 baud transfers (you have to experiment to find highest working baudrate).

Move-it is not for BBS type stuff but is a special purpose program to transfer files quickly between two computers near each other. It is menu driven with the ability to pull up directories of either computer from either computer and control everything from either computer.


The big trick is the chicken or egg issue to transfer programs first you must transfer a program.

Also note the MOVE-IT.ZIP file needs to be expanded on you PC first.

Move-it also requires a PC with a real serial port and not a USB to serial adapter. If that's not an option then you will need to use one of the many other programs.


Randy

After some tests, some help by Larry and almost an afternoon, I succesfully transferred an ASCII (asm source) file from PC to Osborne.
The cable must be straight (not cross): 1<->1 , 2<->2, 3<->3, 7<->7


Now the worst part: I haven't neither ASM nor LOAD commands on my disks :-/

Any idea?

phogren
July 29th, 2016, 03:05 PM
I just tried transfering a file from my Osborne 1 with mdm740 to a DOS based machine runnning qmodem. It worked fine. I had some trouble with a windows 7 running hyperterm because the xmodem protocol just wouldn't sink in checksum or CRC. I tried the dos machine with qmodem that has "relaxed" xmodem and it worked fine. Of course 1200 baud is the max. One good thing is that I didn't need a null modem cable between them. Send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the disk. I'm pretty sure it's SD even though my Osborne has the DD conversion. I wrote the Osborne disk using IMD which said it's SS SD.

giobbi
July 29th, 2016, 04:13 PM
I just tried transfering a file from my Osborne 1 with mdm740 to a DOS based machine runnning qmodem. It worked fine. I had some trouble with a windows 7 running hyperterm because the xmodem protocol just wouldn't sink in checksum or CRC. I tried the dos machine with qmodem that has "relaxed" xmodem and it worked fine. Of course 1200 baud is the max. One good thing is that I didn't need a null modem cable between them. Send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the disk. I'm pretty sure it's SD even though my Osborne has the DD conversion. I wrote the Osborne disk using IMD which said it's SS SD.

Thank you, I write you by PM.
Disk must be SD, of course, or my Osborne won't read.

cheers,
Giovi

Randy McLaughlin
July 30th, 2016, 11:55 AM
After some tests, some help by Larry and almost an afternoon, I succesfully transferred an ASCII (asm source) file from PC to Osborne.
The cable must be straight (not cross): 1<->1 , 2<->2, 3<->3, 7<->7


Now the worst part: I haven't neither ASM nor LOAD commands on my disks :-/

Any idea?

If you have any language that would be a start, do you have mbasic, or any basic? It would be trivial to write load in basic. If you have a language post what it is and we'll start from there.

If not then I can see about digging out my PC that does FM (sd) and mailing you a disk or two with stuff on it. The big part is crossing my fingers and hoping I can boot it up and have it work.


Randy

giobbi
July 30th, 2016, 12:40 PM
If you have any language that would be a start, do you have mbasic, or any basic? It would be trivial to write load in basic. If you have a language post what it is and we'll start from there.

If not then I can see about digging out my PC that does FM (sd) and mailing you a disk or two with stuff on it. The big part is crossing my fingers and hoping I can boot it up and have it work.


Randy


Well, the only language I have is Turbo Pascal (2 disks). Would it help?
Giovi

Randy McLaughlin
July 30th, 2016, 01:58 PM
Yes turbo pascal will work give a couple of days and I'll write something, I'll post it here.


Randy

ef1j91
July 30th, 2016, 11:32 PM
I just tried transferring a file from my Osborne 1 with mdm740 to a DOS based machine running modem.

Is there a disk image with mdm740 available out there? I see references to overlays in the FOG archives.

ldkraemer
July 31st, 2016, 03:25 AM
Yes, it is in the FOG disks:

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.126: MDM740 - CP/M communications software
//CPM126.DOC: An overlay for your specific computer is required
/AUG/86 . : See the following disks for overlays
M7FNK .COM: 50 7C MDM740 internal function key editor
M7FNK .DOC: B2 EE Instructions for using M7FNK
M7LIB .COM: 12 AE MDM740 dialing library number editor
M7LIB .DOC: 27 D9 Instructions for using M7LIB
M7NM-1 .AQM: A3 17 Phone number overlay for MDM712 or earlier
M7NM-6 .ASM: 39 54 Phone number overlay for MDM740
M7RV-7 .AQM: 76 86 Racal Vadic VA2121PA modem dialing overlay
MDM740 .COM: D6 7E Uninstalled MDM740 distribution version
MDM740 .DOC: 27 5F Documentation and instructions
MDM740 .INF: F2 BC Description of features
MDMLNK .COM: BD A5 Self prompting program for installing overlays
MDMLNK .DOC: 7E 47 on MDM7, MEX, or IMP
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.127: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM127.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7A3-1 .AQM: A3 78 Apple /// softcard w/RS232 drivers
M7AC+3 .AQM: 7F 28 Apple-Cat // ALS CP/M card. CP/M+ or CPM2.2
M7AC-1 .AQM: 8C 18 Apple-Cat // (Vanilla flavored)
M7AD-1 .AQM: AF 29 ADDS Multivision
M7ADAM .AQM: 96 E0 Coleco Adam
M7AJ-1 .AQM: 42 E4 Apple J-Cat with Apple Super Serial card
M7AL-2 .AQM: A7 16 Altos Series 5
M7AP-6 .AQM: 94 06 Apple // with ALS, CCS 7710, SSM, CPS, Versacard
M7AQ-6 .AQM: 01 F7 Apple // w/6 MHz PCPI Applicard
M7AX-2 .AQM: AF 29 Actrix
M7CD-1 .AQM: A0 F7 Cromemco CDOS at port 50
M7CI-1 .AQM: 58 43 CCS 2718 S100 board
M7CO-1 .AQM: D6 77 Columbia 1502-2
M7CR-2 .AQM: 9D DE Cromemco
M7CU-1 .AQM: 1B 30 CCS 2820
M7CZ-3 .AQM: F5 4C CCS 2719 with Baud Rate Generator
M7DB-1 .AQM: B2 09 Dynabyte serial port 80H
M7DM-1 .AQM: D7 BC Dynabyte Monarch
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.128: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM128.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7DP-3 .AQM: 08 0D Datapoint 1650
M7DU-1 .AQM: F7 FB Durango series computers
M7EG-2 .AQM: 5D 28 Eagle IIE-2
M7EP-2 .AQM: E5 C1 Epson QX-10
M7FA-2 .AQM: 13 3F Franklin ACE w/dual interface card
M7GP-1 .AQM: 08 86 General purpose - based on 8251 I/O
M7H8-7 .AQM: F8 09 Heath/Zenith H89 or Z90
M7HP-1 .AQM: B3 C2 Hewlett Packard 125 series 100
M7HZ-1 .AQM: 91 7C Heath/Zenith H/Z 100/110 series
M7IM-2 .AQM: 4B 66 IMS computers
M7IN-2 .AQM: AA 8C CompuPro Interfacer 3 or 4
M7IO-1 .AQM: BF 39 Intersystems MIO board at 80H
M7JC-2 .AQM: 5A 04 Apple Super Serial card w/Novation J-cat
M7KP-2 .AQM: E5 69 Kaypro II (7/8 data, even/odd)
M7LB-2 .AQM: D0 92 Ampro Little Board series 100
M7LBD+ .AQM: 93 5F Ampro Little Board (even/odd parity version)
M7LO-2 .AQM: D0 7B Lobo Max-80
M7M4-1 .AQM: D5 A9 TRS-80 Model 4
M7MD-2 .AQM: 0F E1 Morrow Micro Decision MD3
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.129: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM129.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7-PBM .AQM: 08 0D Performance Business Machine
M7NA-1 .AQM: A8 22 North Star Advantage
M7NC-1 .AQM: 06 FB NCR Decision Mate V
M7NE-1 .AQM: D6 B9 NEC PC-8001
M7NH-2 .AQM: C4 78 North Star Horizon
M7NT-1 .AQM: 4C B0 Northern Telecom computer
M7OA-2 .AQM: 21 B3 Otrona Attache
M7OD-5 .AQM: DF 2F Osborne 1 w/Comm-Pac or CTS Datacomm modem
M7OS-2 .AQM: BA 54 Osborne 1 using RS232 port only
M7OV-1 .AQM: A8 21 Osborne Vixen
M7OX-1 .AQM: 4F 31 Osborne Executive
M7P1-1 .AQM: B9 22 PMC Micromate
M7PC-1 .AQM: 08 59 IBM PC with Baby Blue Z80 card
M7PM-2 .AQM: 0B 48 PMMI 103 S-100 modem
M7PP-4 .AQM: 3F 51 Pied Piper
M7PT-1 .AQM: 3C D2 Processor Technology SOL
M7QX@3 .AQM: 22 94 Epson QX-10 with VALDOCS
M7QY-1 .AQM: F0 F4 Quay computers
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.130: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM130.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7R1-3 .AQM: BD 03 TRS-80 Model I w/Omikron Mapper
M7R2-2 .AQM: BB 0D TRS-80 Model II/12 w/Pickles & Trout CP/M
M7R3-1 .AQM: BA 9F TRS-80 Model III w/Omikron or Model 4 w/CPM 2.2
M7R4+1 .AQM: AF 2F TRS-80 Model 4 with Radio Shack CPM+
M7R4-4 .AQM: 94 63 TRS-80 Model 4 w/Montezuma Micro CP/M 2.2
M7S1-1 .AQM: D6 CB Sanyo MBC-1100
M7SB-1 .AQM: CC 23 Intertec Compustar/Superbrain
M7SY-3 .AQM: 81 7B Sanyo MBC-1000 (requires hardware modifications)
M7TK-1 .AQM: 98 39 Teletek SystemMaster
M7TS-2 .AQM: 58 02 Toshiba EW-100/T-100/T-250/T-200
M7TV-9 .AQM: BA 14 Televideo TS-802/TS-803/TPC-1
M7TV-9 .DQC: C6 7D Notes on Televideo printer enabling
M7US-3 .AQM: B6 E8 US Robotics S-100
M7VG-1 .AQM: AC 35 Vector Graphics 3 and 4
M7VI-2 .AQM: 02 87 Visual 1050
M7VT-4 .AQM: F8 56 DEC VT180, Rainbow, Robin, and DECmateII w/ CP/M
M7XE-1 .AQM: 99 20 Xerox 820 and 820 II
M7ZB-4 .AQM: AB F0 Zorba
M7ZX-3 .AQM: 41 6B Zobex S-100
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description

-FOG/CPM.131: Source code for MDM740 in 8080 assembler.
//CPM127.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
NOTE: This disk is NOT required to configure or
MDM740 .ASM: 03 40 use MDM740 with your computer. It is supplied
as reference.
FOG LIBRARY DISK


http://www.znode51.de/fog/filelist.htm


When you unarc FOG12?.ARC you will get the FOG12?.LBR file. Then NULU152 or whatever Library Utility will access the files.


Larry

phogren
July 31st, 2016, 05:46 AM
I sent a disk, unknown time to Brazil. I'm pretty sure it's SD. MDM740

fsaleh@auxilient.com
August 3rd, 2016, 09:46 AM
You need to locate an Osborne specific copy of Ascom software and one for the XT. Ascom allows you to transfer files through the serial ports of two computers with incompatible disk formats.

giobbi
August 5th, 2016, 10:47 AM
You need to locate an Osborne specific copy of Ascom software and one for the XT. Ascom allows you to transfer files through the serial ports of two computers with incompatible disk formats.

My problem is to transfer the software to the Osborne: mine is SSSD so I can't make any disk using 22disk and an XT.
Fortunately, both phogren and ldkraemer (Larry) sent me a floppy with some useful software. This way I think I will solve easily.

@phogren: the brazilian custom received your parcel, now it's just a matter of time. Sometimes it takes few days to be processed, sometimes few months... hoping it will be the first option ;-)

----->> UPDATE: Already processed by custom, I think It will arrive here monday or tuesday.


BTW: In the past I succesfully extracted files from the .IMD and/or .TD0 disk images I got from the web, but I don't remember how. Any clue about that? I don't remember how I did...

--Giovi

ldkraemer
August 5th, 2016, 03:52 PM
Giovi,
To successfully extract files from a .IMD and/or .TD0 disk image I use cpmtools & libdsk. It's about the easiest way I know, other than actually creating
a real floppy and doing it on a CP/M machine.

You will need the proper definition for your CP/M Disk Parameter Block for cpmtools & libdsk.


Larry

Randy McLaughlin
August 5th, 2016, 06:44 PM
I looked up the Osborne tech manual and realized how bad the design was:

The floppies get power over the data cable - That's +5 and +12. So to swap drives you would have to make a modified 34 pin cable. That is to say the +5 and +12 volt lines cut or at least just left out of drive connector and those lines soldered to a standard floppy power cable.

The I/O is memory mapped in bank switched memory so any I/O requires calls to common memory where the I/O port is swapped in before it is read or written to then memory is swapped back to TPA bank.

Both a pain in the ass and a fantastic way to really slow down I/O.

I haven't had time to pull out my Turbo Pascal to write a load program. It would probably be easier to create disks with software on it and mail it to you.

I know that customs would slow it down but you would get more.

Let my know if you have any trouble with the modem software sent to you - If so I will just make a small stack of useful disks to send you.

giobbi
August 6th, 2016, 04:08 AM
Giovi,
To successfully extract files from a .IMD and/or .TD0 disk image I use cpmtools & libdsk. It's about the easiest way I know, other than actually creating
a real floppy and doing it on a CP/M machine.

You will need the proper definition for your CP/M Disk Parameter Block for cpmtools & libdsk.


Larry

Now it makes sense what you wrote me in a past email, I didn't know cpmtools. I will take a look, thank you.
BTW still a mystery how did I extract files from image disks in the past... I'm quite sure I didn't use cpmtools...

giobbi
August 6th, 2016, 04:11 AM
I looked up the Osborne tech manual and realized how bad the design was:

The floppies get power over the data cable - That's +5 and +12. So to swap drives you would have to make a modified 34 pin cable. That is to say the +5 and +12 volt lines cut or at least just left out of drive connector and those lines soldered to a standard floppy power cable.

The I/O is memory mapped in bank switched memory so any I/O requires calls to common memory where the I/O port is swapped in before it is read or written to then memory is swapped back to TPA bank.

Both a pain in the ass and a fantastic way to really slow down I/O.

I haven't had time to pull out my Turbo Pascal to write a load program. It would probably be easier to create disks with software on it and mail it to you.

I know that customs would slow it down but you would get more.

Let my know if you have any trouble with the modem software sent to you - If so I will just make a small stack of useful disks to send you.

Ok Randy, thank you; I believe the first floppy will be here in few days, customs already processed the parcel.

About FDD: yes, they are different from normal, PC standard, FDD ones.

Randy McLaughlin
August 6th, 2016, 06:01 AM
Ok Randy, thank you; I believe the first floppy will be here in few days, customs already processed the parcel.

About FDD: yes, they are different from normal, PC standard, FDD ones.

Being different basically means try to keep. But if worst came to worst it means a modified cable would be needed to use a standard drive.


Randy

giobbi
August 9th, 2016, 12:12 PM
I sent a disk, unknown time to Brazil. I'm pretty sure it's SD. MDM740

Ok, I got the disk today and yes, it's SSSD; thank you for that!

So I tried to connect a DOS PC and the Osborne 1 together, but I had some troubles...


I tried a simple terminal mode, using Qmodem on the DOS side and MDM740 on the Osborne side.
On the Osborne I entered the Terminal mode typing the "T" command (but I tried the "E" command too, same result).

In short: what I type is not what appears on screen on the other side: i.e. when I type a key on the Osborne, I get three or four ascii chars on the PC.
Of course the X-Modem (called Christensen Protocol in the mdm740 guide, I didn't know that, LOL) doesn't work: it doesn't start.


The serial ports and cable are working, at least partially:
I can transfer an ascii file from PC to Osborne using Qmodem -> ascii upload (DOS) and PIP file.txt=RDR: (CP/M). NOTE: On Osborne I must to enter the diagnostic tool, run the serial port test, and press Enter twice ON THE DOS PC to "open"; It returns TEST FAIL at both speeds (300 and 1200) but when I exit the diagnostic tool and use the PIP command it work.
PIP transfer doesn't work if I don't run the diagnostic tool before.

I can't transfer a file from Osborne to DOS using PIP CON:=file.txt or PIP PUN:=file.txt (note that both CON: and PUN: are assigned to TTY:).


I'm using a straight cable, since the cross one doesn't work at all. I tried two DOS PCs, same behavior.

Any idea?

giobbi
August 9th, 2016, 01:13 PM
I did some steps ahead...

I found that you must to enter in Qmodem and MDM740 and *then* connect the cable. This way, the terminal mode works.

Now I'm trying to transfer files from Osborne to PC.
In Qmodem I have some choices about XModem:

Xmodem
CRC Xmodem
Xmodem Relaxed
Xmodem-1K
Xmodem 1K/G

none of them seems to work. I get two different error messages, depending on the Xmodem type I choose:

TIMEOUT - no ACK
NAK received not ACK

Any idea?

Randy McLaughlin
August 9th, 2016, 04:55 PM
I did some steps ahead...

I found that you must to enter in Qmodem and MDM740 and *then* connect the cable. This way, the terminal mode works.

Now I'm trying to transfer files from Osborne to PC.
In Qmodem I have some choices about XModem:

Xmodem
CRC Xmodem
Xmodem Relaxed
Xmodem-1K
Xmodem 1K/G

none of them seems to work. I get two different error messages, depending on the Xmodem type I choose:

TIMEOUT - no ACK
NAK received not ACK

Any idea?
It sounds like you have the wrong baud rate. Getting anything is good - even if it's garbage.

Just try a lower baud-rate on the PC side - I think it defaults to either 300 or 1200 baud.

Just keep typing on the Osborne side and adjusting baud rate on PC side.

You can make sure the Osborne serial port is good by disconnecting the cable and shorting pins 2 and 3 together. Then anything type on the keyboard should echo back to screen.


Randy

phogren
August 9th, 2016, 05:11 PM
I agree on the baud rate. Try at 300 baud and increase later.
Remember that you don't need a null modem cable since the Osborne serial port is configured for a printer.

I'll fire up my Osborne if you are still not having any luck.

I would suspect a possible problem on the PC side.

If you can check between the PC and another computer to rule out any possible problems with the PC. Remembering that you might need a null-modem cable with a standard PC.

ldkraemer
August 9th, 2016, 05:37 PM
Don't forget that the MDM740 program has the SET command:

SET - Set modem baud rate

and COMMAND: ? <RET>

Shows current settings.

and TCC - Toggle CRC/Checksum mode on receive



Larry

giobbi
August 9th, 2016, 08:14 PM
ok, it seems the COM port of my XT clone has some problem; I didn't noticed before that Qmodem is toggling ONLINE/OFFLINE quickly (monochrome monitor and low contrast on text...).

I tried with a WinME PC adjusting both computers at 300 baud, and finally I can transfer files (I didn't remember how slow is 300 baud, how did we download file from BBS at that speed??? LOL)

Tomorrow I will try to raise the speed, now it's 1.00 AM and I'm almost sleeping...

Thank you for now!

--Giovi

Randy McLaughlin
August 9th, 2016, 11:54 PM
ok, it seems the COM port of my XT clone has some problem; I didn't noticed before that Qmodem is toggling ONLINE/OFFLINE quickly (monochrome monitor and low contrast on text...).

I tried with a WinME PC adjusting both computers at 300 baud, and finally I can transfer files (I didn't remember how slow is 300 baud, how did we download file from BBS at that speed??? LOL)

Tomorrow I will try to raise the speed, now it's 1.00 AM and I'm almost sleeping...

Thank you for now!

--Giovi

Fantastic and congrats.

Without modifying the Osborne you can run either 300 or 1200 baud, since you have 80K of space per disk 1200 baud will fill it up fast enough ;-)

1200 baud can fill an 80K disk in less than 12 minutes. But you can modify the baud rate generator as described in the technical manual:

http://history-computer.com/Library/Osborne1TechnicalManual.pdf

One limit to speed is the serial port access is complicated and has a decent overhead in processing.


Randy

phogren
August 10th, 2016, 06:41 AM
Outstanding!

giobbi
August 10th, 2016, 08:35 AM
Thank you guys for the help. As usual, without your help I couldn't resolve. This forum is terrific! :-)

For some reason, the problems I had yesterday seem to be vanished today and it works flawless at 1200 baud. Boooh.

---------------

So, after some test, I decided to transfer some files I got from the web to floppy SSSD by serial port.
Of course nothing is easy... I'm trying to extract some files from image files (.IMD, .TD0 and .LBR from the FOG archive), without success.

I tried cmptools, no luck. Also 22disk, dsktool and teledisk didn't help a lot.... and I can't find useful infos on Google.

I found this page that seemed promisingly: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=112244 but I have to admit I found it very complicated.

I'm wondering if anybody wrote an easy tool (GUI?) or some easy step-by-step instruction about how to manipulate and/or extract files from a disk image, or put files on it...
I mean: there's plenty of cpm disk image on the web... nobody felt the need to have a tool like this before?

Admitting there's an easy way to do that, any help or "dummy proof" guide about how to extract files from these three format (.IMD, .TD0 AND .LBR) would be very appreciated!


--Giovi

ldkraemer
August 10th, 2016, 11:56 AM
Giovi,
What are the filenames for the .IMD & .TD0 files that you are trying to access? If you send me the names, or files,
I can extract the files for you and return a .ZIP that you can access from the PC.

The .LBR files you can access with NULU152 or any other CP/M library utility. I can extract or add files from a .LBR also.

Larry

giobbi
August 10th, 2016, 02:12 PM
Giovi,
What are the filenames for the .IMD & .TD0 files that you are trying to access? If you send me the names, or files,
I can extract the files for you and return a .ZIP that you can access from the PC.

The .LBR files you can access with NULU152 or any other CP/M library utility. I can extract or add files from a .LBR also.

Larry

Larry, thank you for your offer; I'm not interested (not yet!) to a specific file or file image; I just want to learn how to do that...

Giovi

giobbi
August 10th, 2016, 02:20 PM
The .LBR files you can access with NULU152 or any other CP/M library utility. I can extract or add files from a .LBR also.


This part left me a little confused. Nulu is a CP/M program; the .LBR file I have should be a disk image (I got it from the FOG list).
I was trying to extract the content someway to my PC and transfer it to Osborne vie MDM740.
If Nulu runs on Obsorne side, how can I use it if the image is on my HDD?

ldkraemer
August 10th, 2016, 03:03 PM
Giovi,
The squeezed type files that CP/M has are .ARC & .LBR. They are not IMAGE files and are not of DOS type. You can access them with
UNARC for .ARC and NULU for .LBR. The FOG files that I have also downloaded are of type .ARC, but inside them is a .LBR file.
So, I had to unarc the .LBR file and then access it to get MDM740.DOC.

You should also be able to use xmodem to transfer any .ARC or .LBR file from the PC to the Osborne 1.

Tomorrow morning during my free upload time, I'll send you some more utilities. I thought I had sent them previously, but maybe I
didn't get around to it. They should be about everything you should need.

I sent you a .ZIP file of all the files on the O1CPMs.IMD for the Osborne 1. It has SETUP.COM for setting the default Baud Rate
for your COM Port. Use Xmodem to transfer it to your Osborne 1 Floppy.

Your biggest problem is going to be the limited storage of the Floppy Drive. It would be better if you had Double Density Floppy's
with twice the storage.

Larry

giobbi
August 10th, 2016, 04:09 PM
Giovi,
The squeezed type files that CP/M has are .ARC & .LBR. They are not IMAGE files and are not of DOS type. You can access them with
UNARC for .ARC and NULU for .LBR. The FOG files that I have also downloaded are of type .ARC, but inside them is a .LBR file.
So, I had to unarc the .LBR file and then access it to get MDM740.DOC.

You should also be able to use xmodem to transfer any .ARC or .LBE file from the PC to the Osborne 1.


Ok it makes sense; I also extracted the .LBR file from inside the FOG .ARC files on my PC, but I believed that .LBR was an image disk.
Is there any DOS tool capable to manage these formats?

And what about .IMD and .ID0 ?




Tomorrow morning during my free upload time, I'll send you some more utilities. I thought I had sent them previously, but maybe I
didn't get around to it. They should be about everything you should need.


If you mean the CPM-UTILS.ZIP with unarc, unload, nulu, etc., yes you sent me, no need to send again.



I sent you a .ZIP file of all the files on the O1CPMs.IMD for the Osborne 1. It has SETUP.COM for setting the default Baud Rate
for your COM Port. Use Xmodem to transfer it to your Osborne 1 Floppy.


Yep, I got it. I will look at it! :-)



Your biggest problem is going to be the limited storage of the Floppy Drive. It would be better if you had Double Density Floppy's
with twice the storage.
Larry

I'm trying to fix the other Osborne One I have. It has DD units, but it started with a problem on drive B: and now both units are "dead". I received today the Floppy controller IC (MB8877) from USA, thinking (and hoping) it was the culprit, but it isn't. So now I have to dig into schematics and see what's going on...
Until then, only SSSD, unfortunately.

--Giovi

krebizfan
August 10th, 2016, 04:19 PM
Ok it makes sense; I also extracted the .LBR file from inside the FOG .ARC files on my PC, but I believed that .LBR was an image disk.
Is there any DOS tool capable to manage these formats?


You could try the utilities at http://www.z80.eu/cpmcomp.html which should open LBR files.

giobbi
August 10th, 2016, 04:45 PM
You could try the utilities at http://www.z80.eu/cpmcomp.html which should open LBR files.

Thank you, this site link to the "Unarchiver" (http://unarchiver.c3.cx/commandline) that extract correctly most .ARC and .LBR from the FOG archive.

That's all about FOG...

Now I only need to discover how to extract files from images IMD and TD0!

ldkraemer
August 11th, 2016, 03:51 AM
Giovi,
The ONLY way I know to access the .IMD & .TD0 files is with cpmtools (.IMD) and cpmtools w/libdsk (.TD0).

If you convert the .TD0 files to .IMD with the program TD02IMD (TD02IMD FILENAME.TD0) you will get FILENAME.IMD
Now you just need cpmtools (binary for windows) and the Osborn definitions (I've already sent those) to access the files
in the .IMD image.

If you want to work with the .RAW file versus an .IMD file, either of these two commands will create a .RAW file.

USE SAMDISK:
samdisk test.imd test.raw

USE IMDU:
IMDU file.imd file.raw /E /B

Now, you can just use cpmtools to access the files in the .RAW image.

man cpmls
man cpmcp

GET A DIR:
cpmls -f osb1 -d O1CPMS.RAW

COPY FILE FROM IMAGE:
cpmcp -f osb1 O1CPMS.RAW 0:*.COM /home/larry/osb1

COPY FILE TO IMAGE:
cpmcp -f osb1 O1CPMS.RAW README.TXT 0:README.TXT
(where the first README.TXT is in the cpmtools directory, and the last README.TXT will be on the .RAW Image for User 0)

REMOVE A FILE FROM IMAGE:
cpmrm -f osb1 O1CPMS.RAW README.TXT


Larry

giobbi
August 11th, 2016, 11:01 AM
Giovi,
The ONLY way I know to access the .IMD & .TD0 files is with cpmtools (.IMD) and cpmtools w/libdsk (.TD0).

If you convert the .TD0 files to .IMD with the program TD02IMD (TD02IMD FILENAME.TD0) you will get FILENAME.IMD
Now you just need cpmtools (binary for windows) and the Osborn definitions (I've already sent those) to access the files
in the .IMD image.

If you want to work with the .RAW file versus an .IMD file, either of these two commands will create a .RAW file.

USE SAMDISK:
samdisk test.imd test.raw

USE IMDU:
IMDU file.imd file.raw /E /B

Now, you can just use cpmtools to access the files in the .RAW image.

man cpmls
man cpmcp

GET A DIR:
cpmls -f osb1 -d O1CPMS.RAW

COPY FILE FROM IMAGE:
cpmcp -f osb1 O1CPMS.RAW 0:*.COM /home/larry/osb1

COPY FILE TO IMAGE:
cpmcp -f osb1 O1CPMS.RAW README.TXT 0:README.TXT
(where the first README.TXT is in the cpmtools directory, and the last README.TXT will be on the .RAW Image for User 0)

REMOVE A FILE FROM IMAGE:
cpmrm -f osb1 O1CPMS.RAW README.TXT


Larry


Larry, thank you, it was *exactly* what I was looking for! I tried it, it works fine.

--Giovi

giobbi
August 12th, 2016, 06:34 AM
I would like to thank the people who have kindly helped me in this thread; particularly ldkraemer (Larry) and phogren, who sent me the floppies with the needed software.

Thank you guys, this forum is terrific (as usual)!

Jim_Manley
November 6th, 2018, 11:07 PM
Hi,

Does anyone know how to boot an Osborne 1 via the serial port, as is apparently possible in BIOS v 1.3 (but was removed in v 1.4)? This supposedly doesn't require any software on a disk in either floppy drive, just initiating the process on the O1 via the keyboard in response to the power-on message saying to insert a disk into drive A and pressing Return. I've been looking for key combinations that can drop the O1 into a monitor mode, but the only thing I've found is how to boot from drive B (control-" or control-#, IIRC). The v 1.3 ROM assembly listing in the appendix in the O1 technical reference manual doesn't seem to have any comments about this capability.

Thanks,
Jim