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rosaage
August 1st, 2016, 08:05 AM
Hello, I recently got my kaypro 10 up to a more working condition, but the hard drive is slowly failing me. Therefore I was wondering if there are any good hard drive replacements for the kaypro 10. It has a Seagate ST-212 MFM drive.

It will sometimes manage to boot to master menu, but pressing esc will freeze it at system status 02. Most of the time it will either do nothing and get the kapro 10 text or it will half-launch CP/M with the version number text, but then fail on loading the menu or prompt. Pictures:
323863238732388

Stone
August 1st, 2016, 08:33 AM
Try a LLF and see if it helps.

rosaage
August 1st, 2016, 09:06 AM
Try a LLF and see if it helps.

After looking through the sticky thread in this forum I found a zip file here: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img/index.htm named kaypro10 containing 14 images, Would they be enough to do a llf and then reinstall all the software?

Randy McLaughlin
August 1st, 2016, 12:25 PM
After looking through the sticky thread in this forum I found a zip file here: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img/index.htm named kaypro10 containing 14 images, Would they be enough to do a llf and then reinstall all the software?

Kaypro is ROM dependent. That said the disk images should work.

The K10 has one 10 MB drive divided into two five MB partitions, no matter what drive you put in the computer can see no more than two five MB partitions w/o modifying the BIOS. Back in the day when I had one and the drive died I replaced it with a 20MB and redid the BIOS to be 8,8&4.


Randy

k0d3g3ar
August 13th, 2016, 07:06 AM
Try a LLF and see if it helps.

Do you have any more detail on how to do this? I'm in the same boat as the OP on this. I have a couple of K10s that have dead HDDs. My guess is that the HDDs are not actually dead, but that the previous owners were not aware of the process to park heads prior to shipping them, and data in boot sectors is damaged. I'm hoping to restore these back but is there any information on a step by step procedure to do this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

K

Randy McLaughlin
August 13th, 2016, 07:32 AM
Do you have any more detail on how to do this? I'm in the same boat as the OP on this. I have a couple of K10s that have dead HDDs. My guess is that the HDDs are not actually dead, but that the previous owners were not aware of the process to park heads prior to shipping them, and data in boot sectors is damaged. I'm hoping to restore these back but is there any information on a step by step procedure to do this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

K

He means Low-Level-Format, the original Kaypro disks would have this.

You can use a PC to create them if you don't have the originals. Dave Dunfield has an archive of boot disks and software to run on a PC to create them. While some boot disks are hard to create the Kaypro just uses standard PC type controllers.

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img/index.htm

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img54306/d/kaypro10.zip


But any MFM hard drive will work in a K10 - Back "in the day" I used st225's

If you put a different hard drive in don't expect more storage. The K10 will always have two 5mb drives without changing the software.

Also when you boot on a floppy the floppy becomes drive A and the hard disk becomes drives B & C, when you boot on the hard drive the floppy is drive C with the hard drive A & B.

When you run the low level format utility off the booted floppy it will ask for number of heads and tracks (just google the drive).

You will then have to copy the files back to the hard drive from the floppies and put the CPM system on it, forget if it's called putsys or what.


Randy

Stone
August 13th, 2016, 07:42 AM
My guess is that the HDDs are not actually dead, but that the previous owners were not aware of the process to park heads prior to shipping them, and data in boot sectors is damaged.If your guess is spot on then the drive is probably toast as physical damage to the boot sector would preclude a successful LLF or any other access to the drive.

My guess is that the problem is more likely something other than drastic physical damage to the platter(s) and/or heads and something else is causing the problem. One likely problem with drives of this age is that Track Zero is defective (magnetically) but that would also render the drive as useless as the first scenario. If it's not one of these two issues a LLF might restore the drive to a useable state. Try the method mentioned above. I am not familiar with Kaypros, only PCs and true clones so I can't recommend anything specific.

k0d3g3ar
August 13th, 2016, 07:46 AM
He means Low-Level-Format, the original Kaypro disks would have this.

Thanks. I understood that. What I wasn't (and still am not) sure is whether there is a program specifically called LLF on the CP/M disks for this, or whether the process is embodied in another program.

K

Stone
August 13th, 2016, 07:58 AM
I'm quite sure it's not called LLF. :-)

See if this helps:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?36747-Format-Hard-Disk-on-Kaypro-10

Randy McLaughlin
August 13th, 2016, 09:21 AM
Thanks. I understood that. What I wasn't (and still am not) sure is whether there is a program specifically called LLF on the CP/M disks for this, or whether the process is embodied in another program.

K

I can bet it's not llf. But if you do a dir of the floppies it should be easy to determine what formats a floppy and what formats the hard drive.

All hard drives have bad spots on them. Modern hard drives have those bad spots mapped out so you don't see them. The K10 hard drives do not, you need to run findbad after formatting a hard drive.


Randy

ldkraemer
August 15th, 2016, 02:47 AM
Directory Listing:
cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD1.RAW

0:
ex.com
format06.com
load4mat.bak
load4mat.sub
pip.com
reload.bak
reload.sub

1:
asm.com
baudm.com
baudp.com
check.com
config.com
d.com
ddt.com
dump.asm
dump.com
ed.com
findbad.com
flpyfmt.com
genflpy.com
load.com
mfdisk.com
movcpm.com
mufback.com
mufdesc.com
muflook.com
mufrest.com
nomenu.com
pause.com
putovl.com
putsys.com
read.com
safety.com
stat.com
submit.com
term.com
xsub.com
yesmenu.com

13:
format.moc

15:
rcheck.com
reload.1



The KAYPRO10.ZIP Shows just the end result of a setup hard drive:

Hard disk is divided into Drive A and Drive B with user levels

DRIVE "A"

kay10a0s.imd User 0 System Disk 1 of 2
kay10a0t.imd User 0 2 of 2
kay10a1w.imd User 1 WS 3.d
kay10a2m.imd User 2 MicroPlan
kay10a3o.imd User 3 MBASIC, OBASIC
kay10a4c.imd User 4 CBASIC
kay10a5s.imd User 5 SBASIC
kay10a7a.imd User 7 Perfect Writer Disk 1 of 2
kay10a7b.imd Disk 2 of 2
kay10a08.imd User 8 Perfect Calc
kay10a09.imd User 9 Filer
kay10a10.imd User 10 Filer

DRIVE "B"

kay10b0a.imd User 0 Games Disk 1 of 2
kay10b0b.imd Disk 2 of 2


cpmls -f kay2 KAY10A0S.RAW
0:
anagram.com
asm.com
baudm.com
baudp.com
bkmenu.com
check.com
config.com
d.com
ddt.com
dictsort.com
dump.asm
dump.com
ed.com
find.com
findbad.com
flpyfmt.com
genflpy.com
hyphen.com
kp-reset.com
load.com
lookup.com
markfix.com
masmenu.com
masmenu.fil
movcpm.com
mufback.com
mufdesc.com
muflook.com
mufrest.com
nomenu.com
pip.com
putovl.com
putsys.com
review.com
safety.com
spell.com
stat.com
submit.com
term.com
tw.com
wc.com
winstall.com
wordfreq.com
ws.com
wskp.com
wskpconf.com
wsmsgs.$$$
wsovly1.ovr
xsub.com


cpmls -f kay2 KAY10A0T.RAW
0:
homonyms.txt
hyexcept.txt
income.log
income.tbl
maindict.cmp
mperror.fil
mpform.ovl
mphelp.fil
mplogic.ovl
mpmenu.fil
mpprint.ovl
mpserial.num
mpset.ovl
mpsetup.fil
mpshow.ovl
mpstat.ovl
plan.com
print.tst
updict.cmp
ws.ins
wsmsgs.ovr



Larry

Randy McLaughlin
August 15th, 2016, 08:48 AM
Kaypros are ROM dependent I found another site. You need to know what version ROM you have to know which reload disks to use first.

The new site has ROMs that can be burned to use different versions of CPM please not there was no hardware change just ROM's (firmare) and reload disks (software).

http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/

Check them out to see if that helps.


Randy