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View Full Version : How to NOT clean your vintage IBM PC



romanon
October 15th, 2016, 01:05 PM
Only for strong stomach... :angry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uguJu6h93y4

keynotes - 10:46, 12:11, 15:15, 18:14, 24:06

pearce_jj
October 15th, 2016, 01:42 PM
Erm...

Retrom
October 15th, 2016, 02:35 PM
Wow! I've washed motherboards before. But even I wouldn't be stupid enough to do anything this crazy...

inotarobot
October 15th, 2016, 03:46 PM
OH ..

well I watched the first 20secs and I had that sinking gut feeling..

Ok then I fast forwarded to 10.30 and let it run.. YES the 10.46 shows this ID..T was dropped on his "learn" head at birth !!

How could he snap front panel when he was handling everything with 'such' care./// :dontgeti:

The next highlight you point to about his choice of tools.. "sigh".. says one thing does another.

at 16.04 if he has not damaged a piece of pcb thin track I would be VERY surprised.

and at 18.14 on I had to pause video and get up, go to loo and throw up. THAT is the most idiotic thing I seen in a long while. Even worse than the reality females that loose clothing whilst getting out of a car door.

Am I game to look at the rest of the video ?? mmm

I got to 24.40 and just beyond.. BEAM me up Scotty has no transport skills like this guy.. PCB's that fly though the air... AMAZING !!! :bigparty:

now compare 0.26 screen shot to the one at end near 20.40 :bigparty: as I have fixed it .. YEA RIGHT

Chuck(G)
October 15th, 2016, 03:55 PM
Holy cow, heat pump/air conditioning manufacturers warn you not to use a pressure washer to clean the condenser coils because it can damage them. So you should use that 3000 PSI washer on your vintage computer gear. FWIW, note the cheap nickel-plated screwdrivers used to disassemble the PC. Not even a real nutdriver to be seen.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to own or handle tools.

KC9UDX
October 15th, 2016, 04:06 PM
Pressure washer? I gotta see this one.

I used to work with a guy that removed all the skin from his arm trying to wash a spot of dirt off.

Retrom
October 15th, 2016, 04:15 PM
Pressure washer? I gotta see this one.

I used to work with a guy that removed all the skin from his arm trying to wash a spot of dirt off.

My dad told me once that he knew a guy who's friend was washing a boat with an industrial pressure washer, he tried to clean his boot with it, and ended up losing his foot... Not sure how true that story is, but it shows that pressure washers shouldn't be used by people who don't know what they're doing :P

KC9UDX
October 15th, 2016, 04:40 PM
I don't doubt it. High pressure water is very good at cutting things, and, impregnating things through your skin. When a blast of water pulverizes something (boot? Sock?) and blasts it into your meat, they usually amputate.

The waterjet industry is full of horror stories from people doing stupid things.

NeXT
October 15th, 2016, 04:42 PM
I'll admit I've taken risks by putting boards in the dish washer and suing the drying mode after but pressure washing, especially outside is insane. When you aren't stripping parts you're ripping the covers off the EPROMS and letting the sun do the rest.

T-R-A
October 16th, 2016, 05:47 AM
...taken risks by putting boards in the dish washer...

That's not too risky as long as you don't have any components that can be penetrated by water (i.e.---open relays, transformers, etc.). Used to do it all the time at a former job and never had any problems.

But the video above just shows stupidity...

Great Hierophant
October 16th, 2016, 06:04 AM
Could a high-powered pressure wash like the one in the video shear passive components off the board?

The IBM PC has a relay on the mainboard for controlling a cassette deck motor, I am not sure how sealed it is.

Definitely a very careless cleaning, the video poster is lucky that the system posted after his "treatment"

KC9UDX
October 16th, 2016, 06:14 AM
It could blast active components off too. :)

I thought he as much as admitted at the end that he killed the hard drive. I'm not going to go back and watch it again to make sure though.

T-R-A
October 16th, 2016, 06:32 AM
This guy may have a YouTube channel, but he has no business being anywhere near a vintage machine.

DDS
October 16th, 2016, 08:29 AM
I once saw the crew at a Sears Auto Center dismantle a guy's entire dashboard looking for the cause of a small arc they witnessed when installing the hot lead on the new battery he'd just purchased. Turned out to be caused by the dashboard clock.

On another occasion I saw a young man who was supposed to be putting new shocks on my car walk under the lift with a lit cutting torch. He was outraged when someone (me) shut off the acetylene valve. We had a "frank and meaningful exchange of our positions" on his skills as a mechanic.

I call it "brute force and ignorance" after a photo I once saw many years ago on a photo caption. Amazingly I was able to find it on the web. Look at the photo on the top of page 35.

https://books.google.com/books?id=G2kUibvRUo8C&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=brute+force+and+ignorance+small+block+chevy&source=bl&ots=mloApOE_Cr&sig=CvkniiyCeoE2_x6A8ehbOLAt1tQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRv7_43N_PAhVH_4MKHU1TC4wQ6AEIHDAA#v=on epage&q=brute%20force%20and%20ignorance%20small%20block% 20chevy&f=false

Yep, they're out there, Folks. And nowhere as rare as we would like to think. :-0

inotarobot
October 16th, 2016, 12:42 PM
This guy may have a YouTube channel, but he has no business being anywhere near a vintage machine.

Do you think I should start a YouTube channel in opposition to this guy...? I could could call it BRICKING a modern computer

I would show taking a modern computer, putting it outside on ground, building a temporary wood frame around it. Grab two bags of quick set cement and pour around and over it. Then add water and wait for it to dry.

I could even go so far as pre-cable the unit so power, and monitor cables were connected outside concrete area, with wifi mouse and keyboard and then try powering it up.

MM could become an internet hit.. ????

BUT seriously its a shame this idiot is able to leave this video on, someone else with limited electronic/computer/tool skills could think this is ok and copy him.

Also DONT buy any vintage computers from eBay or like that have the words "Freshly pressure cleaned and ready to get working" !!

Chuck(G)
October 16th, 2016, 01:02 PM
We all should be glad that the YT poster isn't a collector of rare violins or antique china.

NeXT
October 16th, 2016, 01:32 PM
That's not too risky as long as you don't have any components that can be penetrated by water (i.e.---open relays, transformers, etc.). Used to do it all the time at a former job and never had any problems.



and using the drying mode after

Context means everything. ;)

bobba84
October 16th, 2016, 02:33 PM
This is sacrilege! That poor 5150. I wonder if it is still alive?

Plasma
October 16th, 2016, 03:00 PM
Eh, if you look at his other videos it's clear he's just a kid. And if you look in the comments he acknowledges it was a dumb thing to do. My only concern is that some other clueless person will find this video and think it's a good way to clean a computer.

SomeGuy
October 16th, 2016, 03:13 PM
Well, at the end of the video he appeared to power it on and got to a "non-system disk or disk error" message, which showed it was at least trying to boot from a hard disk or floppy (didn't watch the entire thing). Very surprising.

Those boards weren't even that dirty. Even high powered compressed air can damage things. To wash something even very dirty, no one should really need much more than a garden hose with a spray attachment. Blew all the labels clean off.

Never realized pressure washers could be quite that dangerous. It make sense though. Blast that filthy meat off of those clean pristine bones. Ouch.

Perhaps for his next trick, he will clean the CRT in the bathtub, while it is turned on and plugged in. :P

Stone
October 16th, 2016, 03:49 PM
To wash something even very dirty, no one should really need much more than a garden hose with a spray attachment.You can use whatever you like on your stuff. I prefer a small vacuum and an old, too-soft-to-be-used-on-teeth-anymore toothbrush.

MrArgent
October 16th, 2016, 04:08 PM
oh jeez. Has this dude never heard of a soft toothbrush dipped in isopropyl?

T-R-A
October 16th, 2016, 04:10 PM
...he appeared to power it on and got to a "non-system disk or disk error" message...

I'd suspect in his mischief, he likely damaged the HDD controller...unless he was stupid enough to try and clean the HDD itself (didn't see it in any of the video, but who knows what stupidity can ensue from one with a single brain-cell)...

DDS
October 16th, 2016, 04:15 PM
"Perhaps for his next trick, he will clean the CRT in the bathtub, while it is turned on and plugged in. :P"

I actually saw a guy go #1 on a running lawnmower once. Took him a while to wake up.

Ya see, there was once this guy named Charles Darwin. I think they still give out prizes in his name.

http://www.darwinawards.com/

MCbx
October 16th, 2016, 04:23 PM
I remember I was removing the ribbon cable from edge connector in PCB with a flat-blade screwdriver once. After destroying the plastic part I found that someone soldered a connector to drive's PCB.

But these computers are bought, in many cases, only to look vintage. My friend is collecting C64s. He has lots of them, different variations, even the rare one with "ashtrays". After filling third room with C64s, he started to sell duplicates.
So once a "businessman" came to him, he wanted the most worn C64 possible. As my friend had an old and dirty C64 with keys worn out to the "mirror" state, he sold it but asked the businessman why he needs such a computer.
"Something has to be shown as company's first computer
- When the company has started?
- 1998, we started making web sites for districts".
No comments.

ibmapc
October 16th, 2016, 05:41 PM
This guy may have a YouTube channel, but he has no business being anywhere near a vintage machine.

Yeh, I am sick of seeing youBOOB "How To" videos made by Idiots that have no clue about what they are trying to describe. I say some of these boobs know "Just Enough to be DANGEROUS"!!! You can't fix stupid!!

Casey
October 18th, 2016, 07:34 AM
Hey! It was only 1800 psi. Pay attention. :p

Al Hartman
October 18th, 2016, 10:03 AM
I'd suspect in his mischief, he likely damaged the HDD controller...unless he was stupid enough to try and clean the HDD itself (didn't see it in any of the video, but who knows what stupidity can ensue from one with a single brain-cell)...

If you look again, you can see that he removed the board from the hard drive and washed it.

Oy.

inotarobot
October 18th, 2016, 12:49 PM
If you look again, you can see that he removed the board from the hard drive and washed it.

Oy.

at 17.29 you can see plastic front of hard drive sitting on top of it. and at 22.57 you can see HD less its PCB. and at 12.08 on he shows the front plate of HD and then comments that he had broken the tabs that hold it to the drive.

So I guess he really messed the whole machine.

He needs to have a lot of constructive comment added to the video by all of us here, LIKE rename it to how NOT to do cleaning or like.

Maybe a member of VCFED can contact him and get that machine and document the damage in a follow up video

Chuck(G)
October 18th, 2016, 12:54 PM
Yeh, I am sick of seeing youBOOB "How To" videos made by Idiots that have no clue about what they are trying to describe. I say some of these boobs know "Just Enough to be DANGEROUS"!!! You can't fix stupid!!

For some things, it's okay as in "How to replace the door weatherstripping on your F150". But I'd draw the line at "How to remove tree stumps using diesel and ammonium nitrate fertilizer."

ibmapc
October 18th, 2016, 02:17 PM
For some things, it's okay as in "How to replace the door weatherstripping on your F150". But I'd draw the line at "How to remove tree stumps using diesel and ammonium nitrate fertilizer."

Is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2m-ptUHWms) what you're talking about Chuck? I kinda like that one. ANFO can be fun to watch. As long as the user know what he's doing. That's the problem with the video mentioned by the OP. That guy should be tarred and feathered. Not the OP but the youBOOB video maker.

slay
October 18th, 2016, 02:39 PM
Aw, c'mon. The IBM PC is not very rare and he's provided some great entertainment.

Far more interesting than someone loading Zork or whatever!

bobba84
October 18th, 2016, 02:47 PM
We need a dislike button for posts.

slay
October 18th, 2016, 02:59 PM
We need a dislike button for posts.

We need a sense of perspective!

Millions of those PCs were sold. Anyone who wants to buy a fairly standard 5150 / 5160 is able to do so, quite easily, even in 2016. I've got 5 or 6 and I wasn't even trying! They are incredibly well documented, parts are plentiful, we are never going to see a world shortage of them.

I honestly got a reasonable amount of entertainment watching a guy do something stupid with a system like that, for the WTF element if nothing else. I can't apologise for it, it was funny :oops:

It would be more galling if it was something irreplaceable, but overall it's quite a good demo of the robustness and over-engineered nature of early PCs :D

I've read about countless folk tossing IBMs straight into recycling. Hell, some threw away Apple-1s. At least this guy had good intentions even though he went about it totally the wrong way.

Chuck(G)
October 18th, 2016, 02:59 PM
Is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2m-ptUHWms) what you're talking about Chuck? I kinda like that one. ANFO can be fun to watch. As long as the user know what he's doing.

Yup. And that's the problem with too many of these things. The user is assumed to know about the hazards, and is not advised of them.

bobba84
October 18th, 2016, 03:26 PM
Millions of those PCs were sold. Anyone who wants to buy a fairly standard 5150 / 5160 is able to do so, quite easily

How long do you think this attitude can continue? If nobody saves them, there will be none left one day.

Sure, you found it funny. That doesn't mean we have to.

Plasma
October 18th, 2016, 04:53 PM
Thousands of these have already been scrapped by recyclers, even more hacked up and "hot rodded"...one foolish kid power washing his 5150 isn't going to make a dent in the grand scheme of things.

And another way of looking at it...if his video deters just two other people from using this method to "clean" their vintage PCs, he's saved more than he's damaged.

Trixter
October 18th, 2016, 05:28 PM
That's not too risky as long as you don't have any components that can be penetrated by water (i.e.---open relays, transformers, etc.). Used to do it all the time at a former job and never had any problems.

Can someone describe the proper "dishwasher" technique? I'm assuming it is something like this:


Both boards and plastic are ok (motherboard, outer case, keycaps, etc.) as long as everything is disassembled
Quick wash (not power/extended/5-hour wash)
No detergent
No heat cycle for drying

Is that roughly correct? I have a few systems whose internals are covered in crud that I'd like to try this with.

KC9UDX
October 18th, 2016, 05:43 PM
I use soap, but not dishwasher detergent. Frankly, I don't recall what kind of soap, it's been so long. I always used the "roughest" wash cycle, "Pots and Pans" or whatever it's called. But never use the heat drying cycle.

I've used copious amounts of Scrubbing Bubbles on point-to-point wired tube gear.

I never totally disassemble anything, even keyboards. I've never had an issue with anything drying out. I use compressed air, followed by a hair dryer (carefully) to sometimes in the oven at the lowest temperature for a few hours, or laying out in the sun all day.

I do make sure there's no paper or foam or anything else that might dissolve in water.

Flamin Joe
October 18th, 2016, 08:13 PM
I've always done it by hand with a soft tooth brush in the bath (obviously not while I'm in it lol). :D I just use normal dish washing detergent as the cleaning agent.

I do remove socketed components for two reasons. One it ensures no water gets trapped underneath (which really isn't an issue if you dry it well but I like to do it anyway). And secondly I like to give the pins on any chips I remove a light sand to remove any built up oxidation.

I always do two rinses as well. The first with normal tap water to remove the soapy water, the second rinse is with distilled (aka demineralised) water to rinse off the tap water. Depending where you live tap water can have all sorts of contaminants which probably aren't a good idea to leave sitting on the board so they always good to remove I say. If you have filtered water this probably wouldn't be an issue but I don't so I've chosen this method. Also the only reason why I don't do just one clean with distilled water is because it can be expensive to buy in bottles so I leave the majority of rinsing to tap water.

Never had an issue doing it this way.

T-R-A
October 19th, 2016, 02:49 PM
Can someone describe the proper "dishwasher" technique?

Just a standard wash in the dishwasher (and yes, we used Cascade dish powders). If you have something you fear melting (which would be unusual, since the boards have previously been through a solder-reflow or reflow oven), then you could use lower temps on wash/dry cycles. Again, make sure to remove (or at least cover with Kapton tape) anything which may be problematic as far as retaining and/or being damaged by water. Here's a good stand-by web page:

http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/PCB_Cleaning_101