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View Full Version : Damn cats and how I need an IBM 5145 now.



lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 06:50 AM
So last night my cats managed to knock my IBM 5145 color monitor off the coffee table and onto a tile floor. The thing could not have fallen more than about 2 feet, but when I picked it up I hear that wonderful tinkle of bits of glass on the inside. Needless to say that the furry bastards were not in my good books for the night, and they knew it and avoided me for the rest of the night.

I have not taken it apart yet to access the damage, but I suspect the tube is probably done for, which is a pity since the thing was in near mint condition, and cosmetically still is.

So does anyone have one they want to part with? Or perhaps know how easy/hard it is to locate a replacement tube and how hard it would be to replace the tube?

EDIT: It's the 5145 monitor (CGA monitor for IBM 5140).

geoffm3
December 21st, 2016, 07:30 AM
Geez... what did you do to piss them off? lol

Seriously though, that sucks.

Stone
December 21st, 2016, 07:46 AM
At this point you might be better off putting a VGA monitor on the system... unless you've got lots of luck and money.

glitch
December 21st, 2016, 07:47 AM
That's one of the main reasons our two furbags aren't allowed in the workshop/office area. We specifically looked for a house where I could easily shut them out. Too many broken projects, plus we were worried they'd one day find AC line (or higher) voltage and end up crispy!

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 07:55 AM
At this point you might be better off putting a VGA monitor on the system... unless you've got lots of luck and money.

Not really possible with an IBM 5140 I'm afraid.

Stone
December 21st, 2016, 08:02 AM
Ahhh... I saw the 5160 with a 5154 in your SIG and thought that was it.

Does that mean you have(had) two 5154s?

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 08:06 AM
Ahhh... I saw the 5160 with a 5154 in your SIG and thought that was it.

Does that mean you have(had) two 5154s?

Erk.. No, my bad. This was the 5145 CGA monitor for the 5140 color add on thingy. Which seems to be even more rare than the IBM 5154 (EGA) monitor.

Stone
December 21st, 2016, 08:18 AM
Can't you adapt a CGA or PCjr monitor to it?

roberttx
December 21st, 2016, 08:25 AM
I think that I may have some 5145s. I'll check when I'm next in my workshop.

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 08:38 AM
I think that I may have some 5145s. I'll check when I'm next in my workshop.

That would be awesome!!!

roberttx
December 21st, 2016, 09:13 AM
That would be awesome!!!

Bummer! Mine are 5154s, I think - I just found a photo of a 5145 and they look nothing like that. Sorry.

mbbrutman had one in 2005: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?1659-IBM-5145-Monitor-(PC-Convertible-CGA-display)&highlight=5145

mbbrutman
December 21st, 2016, 09:19 AM
This is a reasonably good picture of a 5145 ... http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/ibm-pc-convertible/IMG_0352.jpg

And here is my monitor showing the colorbar: https://goo.gl/photos/cgNYHvQRiszcD6RGA

It's a nice little monitor that works on both the IBM 5140 and the PCjr. Hopefully you will forgive the cats in time.

There is a monochrome external monitor for the IBM 5140, but it looks to just use the composite output. There has been one on eBay for ages at a reasonable price, but it's not terribly useful.

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 09:31 AM
This is a reasonably good picture of a 5145 ... http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/ibm-pc-convertible/IMG_0352.jpg

Yeah, that is in the same condition my is in. Very clean, no yellowing and the image perfect. But now it's just pretty...


It's a nice little monitor that works on both the IBM 5140 and the PCjr. Hopefully you will forgive the cats in time.

Maybe I will. We'll see. It is a really nice little monitor.

Stone
December 21st, 2016, 09:58 AM
I've got a PCjr monitor if that's of interest. But it's really heavy and would be a bear to ship.

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 10:02 AM
I've got a PCjr monitor if that's of interest. But it's really heavy and would be a bear to ship.

Thanks, but I actually have one of those as well, which goes with my PCjr. The main reason why I want this one is for the overall aesthetic. The 5145 was designed to go with the 5140, and therefore has a stand that makes it sit right with the 5140 and it looks really good when paired up, on top of that I want to eventually have a mini travelling museum like setup with my IBM systems at one or more of the schools in the district that i work with, as well as at home.

ki4swy
December 21st, 2016, 10:31 AM
open it up and post the model # of the tube, i bet we can find you a tube that you can put in it.

KC9UDX
December 21st, 2016, 10:31 AM
If you can't replace it, fix it.

It's very unusual for a CRT to break when a monitor is dropped. The only way it usually happens is if the CRT got pushed back into the back of the case or vice versa. Usually, but not always, is obvious without disassembly. Otherwise, take it apart and look; what have you to lose?

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 10:34 AM
If you can't replace it, fix it.

It's very unusual for a CRT to break when a monitor is dropped. The only way it usually happens is if the CRT got pushed back into the back of the case or vice versa. Usually, but not always, is obvious without disassembly. Otherwise, take it apart and look; what have you to lose?

That is the plan. However, like I said, when I picked it up I heard glass rattling around inside, and it did land hard on tile, so it is very possible that the jolt would have snapped the neck or something like that.

I plan on opening it up tonight and taking a look.

KC9UDX
December 21st, 2016, 10:44 AM
A jolt won't break the neck, it has to come into contact with something.

If the exhaust stem broke off because the back of the tube contacted something, air would leak in slowly and make a hissing noise.

If the neck broke, there would be a loud noise and obvious damage visible from the face of the CRT due to the rapid ingress of air blasting away phosphors, or throwing dislodged parts into the shadow mask, scraping the phosphors.

But all the discussing it in the world won't be as helpful as that look inside. :)

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 11:04 AM
A jolt won't break the neck, it has to come into contact with something.

If the exhaust stem broke off because the back of the tube contacted something, air would leak in slowly and make a hissing noise.

If the neck broke, there would be a loud noise and obvious damage visible from the face of the CRT due to the rapid ingress of air blasting away phosphors, or throwing dislodged parts into the shadow mask, scraping the phosphors.

But all the discussing it in the world won't be as helpful as that look inside. :)

Hmm, no hissing, no discoloration, so there is some hope. So I guess cat won't be on the menu just yet. This happened at around midnight last night too, so we were not in the room when the thing hit the ground, and it why I have not had a chance to pop it open yet.

vwestlife
December 21st, 2016, 11:40 AM
The "glass tinkling" sound could be something else inside the monitor that has come loose and is hitting against the CRT.

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 11:48 AM
The "glass tinkling" sound could be something else inside the monitor that has come loose and is hitting against the CRT.

Hopefully you are right on this.

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 05:32 PM
It's broken for sure.

34934

Notice the cracks in the glass, right at the end of the tube. The main tube is fine, still sealed and what not.

Also here is a short vid of what happens when you power it up: https://goo.gl/photos/RoDSnMjy5L3sSZ7SA

glitch
December 21st, 2016, 05:40 PM
Probably the inertia of the assembly on the end of the neck that did it in. You may be able to find a replacement tube, though!

KC9UDX
December 21st, 2016, 05:55 PM
It's broken for sure.

34934

Notice the cracks in the glass, right at the end of the tube. The main tube is fine, still sealed and what not.

Also here is a short vid of what happens when you power it up: https://goo.gl/photos/RoDSnMjy5L3sSZ7SA

There's only one tube and it's broken, not sealed.. But I have no doubt you can find a tube from a similar (but not the same) monitor. Then you get to have fun aligning it! :)

KC9UDX
December 21st, 2016, 05:57 PM
Probably the inertia of the assembly on the end of the neck that did it in.

I can't say it didn't, but I'd be extremely surprised if that's what did it, only because I've seen tubes with more hanging off the back which survived much more abuse, such as being thrown into an empty dumpster with the intent of breakage.

roberttx
December 21st, 2016, 06:08 PM
I can't say it didn't, but I'd be extremely surprised if that's what did it, only because I've seen tubes with more hanging off the back which survived much more abuse, such as being thrown into an empty dumpster with the intent of breakage.

Fair comment, but you never know when it comes to cases. Sometimes the impact, force, angle etc. is just right (by which I mean wrong). Combine that with latent stress clusters in the glass and there's no predicting it.

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 06:15 PM
Nearly every time I have had to deal with a broken CRT tube, and granted this has not been a large number but more than you can count on one hand, they broke in more or less the same place. The end of these tubes is usually free floating in the case (like this one is) and that means it much more susceptible to being snapped. That said, I have also had some that bounced 3 times, and yet was just fine.

So yeah, it's the luck of the draw I guess.

Anyone got a good cat recipe?

KC9UDX
December 21st, 2016, 06:26 PM
I could use some strings for my zither. There's a lot of strings on a guitar zither such as mine.

Unluck, I would say. The only ones I've seen broken like that took an impact from the side, or severe impact from the back. Usually intentional damage; for reasons that escape me, many people enjoy breaking CRTs.

The vast majority that I've dealt with in recent years look like this one; parcel smashers cause the tube to break free from its mounts and strike the back of the case.
34935

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 07:36 PM
I am wondering if I could get a 13" 4:3 LCD mounted in there and use a CGA/EGA to VGA scan converter to convert the signal up to it.

But this will definitely depend on if I can get replacement monitor, if I can't then I guess I'll need to learn how to install a new tube and align it....

Chuck(G)
December 21st, 2016, 08:19 PM
You may want to cruise the second hand/junk stores for old portable color TVs. Perhaps there's a salvageable jug to be located without much expense.

lutiana
December 21st, 2016, 09:32 PM
Are all 14" color tubes going to be the same, or close to the same? I'd have no idea what I was looking for TBH. And then there is the daunting task if getting it installed, which sounds fun, but kind of scary at the same time.

roberttx
December 22nd, 2016, 03:42 AM
I am wondering if I could get a 13" 4:3 LCD mounted in there and use a CGA/EGA to VGA scan converter to convert the signal up to it.

Here's an LCD version, in various sizez. You might ask them which size might best fit your case: http://choiceprinters.com/video/TTL/IBM_5145.html

KC9UDX
December 22nd, 2016, 05:28 AM
Are all 14" color tubes going to be the same, or close to the same? I'd have no idea what I was looking for TBH. And then there is the daunting task if getting it installed, which sounds fun, but kind of scary at the same time.

At this point, it wouldn't be unjustified to spend a couple hundred bones to send it off to someone who can do the job.

mikey99
December 23rd, 2016, 07:58 AM
Are all 14" color tubes going to be the same, or close to the same? I'd have no idea what I was looking for TBH. And then there is the daunting task if getting it installed, which sounds fun, but kind of scary at the same time.

Does anyone know if the PCjr monitor uses the same CRT as the 5145? If so that would make finding a replacement much easier.

NeXT
December 23rd, 2016, 08:18 AM
Are all 14" color tubes going to be the same, or close to the same? I'd have no idea what I was looking for TBH. And then there is the daunting task if getting it installed, which sounds fun, but kind of scary at the same time.

The TV guys for quite a while subbed tubes between models and even entirely different brands of sets. What's the model on your jug? So long as the main voltages (anode, heater etc.) are within the ballpark you should at worst only need to repin the socket.

geoffm3
December 27th, 2016, 08:36 AM
I haven't tube swapped old CRTs, but supposedly on color CRTs it is much harder (impossible?) to substitute a yoke from one CRT to another with good results unlike a B&W CRT.

KC9UDX
December 27th, 2016, 09:23 AM
Impossible? No. You just need to be aware and swap the right parts.

If the neck diameters are the same, swap just the deflection yoke, and make sure it's in the right location. Also make sure all the other yokes go back exactly where they came from.

If the diameters are different, don't swap yokes, and hope the impedances are similar. (Or measure them.)