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dmemphis
January 30th, 2017, 09:05 AM
I'm tired of googling and sifting- Time to ask the experts!
What were your favorites?
Seeking applications, tools, utilities, demo programs, source code.
Must run on a stock 8088 with no better than Monochrome with Hercules and CGA emulation.
(Though for a later effort, I will go to color based video)

Such as:

Early examples of forward looking things: ie: early hobby simulation, cad, animation, screen savers
etc that pointed to things to come.
Source code examples for QuickBasic, Assembler, Pascal, and C.
Program development suggestions for writing Demos. I'm inclined to do some things
in QuickBasic for the retro feel and use some libraries for jazz. So far I like QBSCR
but open to suggestions on libraries and other languages.
Suggestions for what was a really nice bootup menu system?
So far now I've done my own batch system. But there's probably a better way.
Period demos that wowed us back in the day.
Modern demos that point back.. such as 8088 Corruption, Domination, XDC.


Things I have so far:

- 8088 Assembler Matrix screen demo posted on this forum, thanks!
- XTree Gold
- Checkit
- Norton Commander
- Mummies, a classic character based game
- PC-RR rail road simulator
- visual basic examples

Thanks very much in advance!

Stone
January 30th, 2017, 09:42 AM
Suggestions for what was a really nice bootup menu system?

So far now I've done my own batch system. But there's probably a better way.

I tend to like batch menus. Simple, configurable and no resources to hog which is great for systems with limited memory.

Direct Access is very nice, too, and it also exits from memory while you're running an application so it's no hog.

I've got a boxed copy of Direct Access v5.0 if there's any interest.

It only requires 256K and a PC to run.

Mad-Mike
January 30th, 2017, 10:03 AM
For historical accuracy......

KILLER APPS
Lotus 1-2-3
WordPerfect
WordStar
TurboCad (not sure what version I have but it's aimed at CGA XTs)
Harvard Graphics 3.0 on down

SCREENSAVERS
Dazzle
Inner Mission

WINDOW MANAGERS/GUIS/FILE MANAGERS
OpenDesktop GEM
Windows 1.x, 2.x, and 3.0
XTREE (Especially XTREE Gold)
DOS Shell (DOSSHELL.EXE from DOS 4 up)
Deskmate

GAMES
Microsoft Adventure
Microsoft Flight Simulator 1.0
Beyond Zork (or anything in the Zork Series for that matter)
Early Ultima (Ultima I, II, III, and IV, maybe V)
Maniac Mansion
King's Quest (or pretty much any/all old AGI Sierra titles if you have EGA or TGA/PC Jr. capable CGA)
Lots of old BASIC games like Maxit or Depth Charge and so on


Just to name a few....

SpidersWeb
January 30th, 2017, 10:48 AM
Another one I'll throw in is OrCAD.
I found it on one of my XT's when it arrived, it let you do electronics work. From memory mine had the libraries for 74 series ICs etc too, I played around making a schematic.

Another interesting program install I found, but isn't really realistic for when the machine was new, was an install of AmiWord. Imagine MS Word for Windows, before Windows was popular, so it included a bare bones version of Windows 2.x on the install disks! Was very slow though, wouldn't recommend to a friend, but whoever installed it REALLY wanted WYSIWYG/Windows etc etc on their machine.

Also pfs: First Choice is a good all in one package, and pfs: First Publisher is also good for WYSIWYG layout. Both products were lower cost titles - but what I remember using more of. They ran fine on XT's, were functional, and didn't cost thousands.

Plus every system should have PrintMaster, how else will you print those dot matrix Happy Birthday ribbons?

Scali
January 30th, 2017, 11:05 AM
Plus every system should have PrintMaster, how else will you print those dot matrix Happy Birthday ribbons?

Funny you should mention that... I used Broderbund's Banner Mania back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_Mania

mojorific
January 30th, 2017, 11:17 AM
If you have access to set up a printer, I would totally recommend you demonstrate a copy of print master plus v2.0 or a similar version. Make a birthday card, or something simple like that. That was probably one of the more useful programs back in the early days of home computers.

Show an early version of word perfect (5.0 or 6.0). Show them something prior to WYSIWYG. Give examples of how you bold text, italics, etc.

I would also show them a sierra game of some kind (mixed up mother goose, etc). Also you can see about getting an old version of Tetris (which most kids even today would recognize). Wheel of fortune or hang man would be great too.

-------

Programming - quick basic would be the way to go. We used to like looking at the code for Gorilla.bas and modifying it. If you are using windows, you could probably find an early version of Visual basic and make some kind of 'Hello World' application with a button to click, and a label.

SpidersWeb
January 30th, 2017, 11:37 AM
And if you install Word Perfect, use 5.1 and make sure to enable the menus.
Without it, you'll be mashing the keyboard just trying to work out how to quit.

It's a very capable word processor and can do some decent formatting/layout work, but a very different experience to "ribbons" and wizards.

SomeGuy
January 30th, 2017, 02:08 PM
For a menu system, I recommend Brown Bag Software's Power Menu. It also has a very nice file manager built int.

How early are you really trying to demonstrate? I recently acquired some disks that apparently had been used with an early PC ~1982. They had crufty copies of PC-DOS 1.0, lots of crufty basic programs, IBM Personal Editor, EasyWriter, IBM Pascal Compiler, and a few other IBM tools.

During the first few years of the PC there was a lot of BASIC and command-line/terminal oriented stuff, often ported from CP/M. But by the mid 80s there was more full-screen, PC-specific stuff, and lower cost compilers like Turbo Pascal began to catch on. Then around 1990 things really started to go GUI.

Along the lines of current "demos", if you are using CGA you might want to check out the composite-artifacting CGA mod of Commander Keen 4 (16 colors on CGA!). That requires a hard drive, but I got regular CGA keen 4 to run from dual 360k floppies.

dmemphis
January 30th, 2017, 04:48 PM
For a menu system, I recommend Brown Bag Software's Power Menu. It also has a very nice file manager built int.


Thanks!


How early are you really trying to demonstrate? I recently acquired some disks that apparently had been used with an early PC ~1982. They had crufty copies of PC-DOS 1.0, lots of crufty basic programs, IBM Personal Editor, EasyWriter, IBM Pascal Compiler, and a few other IBM tools.

For this purpose I'm not after the earliest stuff, more like the early stuff that made new waves
in the PC experience that was best shown earliest on the 5150.
Some of those are good examples. I would in general though be interested in seeing most of these even
if I don't use them for this purpose.


During the first few years of the PC there was a lot of BASIC and command-line/terminal oriented stuff, often ported from CP/M. But by the mid 80s there was more full-screen, PC-specific stuff, and lower cost compilers like Turbo Pascal began to catch on. Then around 1990 things really started to go GUI.

Probably not the CP/M ish stuff. You reminded me of those early word processor wars. One I have yet to see
is the one Captain Crunches wrote.
Full screen, pre-gui, Text/mouse UI, maybe- cause that hinted at GUI stuff to come.


Along the lines of current "demos", if you are using CGA you might want to check out the composite-artifacting CGA mod of Commander Keen 4 (16 colors on CGA!). That requires a hard drive, but I got regular CGA keen 4 to run from dual 360k floppies.
That's a good one for when I go really use coor rather than cga on monochrome..

THANKS for those suggestions.

Flamin Joe
January 30th, 2017, 05:13 PM
GAMES:

Alley Cat *End thread* :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_Cat_(video_game)

Released on the PC in 1984 by IBM no less, gorgeous CGA Graphics. Was probably one of the very first games I played on my XT along with Sopwith I might add.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopwith_(video_game)

Cimonvg
January 30th, 2017, 06:16 PM
hello
Also the first "Civilization" game would run (with EGA) on ibm pc, a good one i think.
For some reason i also liked "SideKick", and the ability to rapidly do another ting on your pc then the main application you were running at the moment :)
/cimonvg

compu_85
January 31st, 2017, 07:01 AM
I'm a fan of MTCP as well. Perhaps it's not period, but it shows something useful the system can still do today (IRC client, etc)

dabone
January 31st, 2017, 08:11 AM
I loved Ventura Publisher back in the day. It ran fine on a XT.


Later,
dabone

nc_mike
January 31st, 2017, 05:51 PM
My Favs:

Word Processing: Mansfield KEDIT
Word Processing: MS Word for DOS 4.0
Word Processing: WordPerfect 5.1
File Manager: IBM File Command
Utility: IBM Fixed Disk Organizer
Utility: System Utility: SysInfo7
Desktop: Quarterdeck DeskView 2.0
Database: Ashton-Tate dBase III Plus
Graphic: Harvard Graphics 2.0
Spreadsheet: Lotus 123 2.4
Spreadsheet: VisiCalc
Accounting: QuickBooks Version 1.0
Accounting: One Write Plus Money Matters
Communications (Dial-up): QMODEM
Communications (Dial-up): ProComm+
Programming: Turbo Pascal 6.0 for DOS
Productivity: Point of Sale Cash Register
Productivity: Policies Now
Productivity: Family Tree Maker
Game: Jeopardy
Game: Cyborgirl Pinball
Accouting: Quicken QuickBooks
Programming: Turbo Pascal
Programming: Turbo Assembler
Game: Space Invaders
Game: Space Invaders 78
Game: Monopoly
Game: PacMan
Music: Voyetra Sequencer Plus Pro MIDI

sev
January 31st, 2017, 06:45 PM
My Favs:

Word Processing: Mansfield KEDIT
Word Processing: MS Word for DOS 4.0
Word Processing: WordPerfect 5.1
File Manager: IBM File Command
Utility: IBM Fixed Disk Organizer
Utility: System Utility: SysInfo7
Desktop: Quarterdeck DeskView 2.0
Database: Ashton-Tate dBase III Plus
Graphic: Harvard Graphics 2.0
Spreadsheet: Lotus 123 2.4
Spreadsheet: VisiCalc
Accounting: QuickBooks Version 1.0
Accounting: One Write Plus Money Matters
Communications (Dial-up): QMODEM
Communications (Dial-up): ProComm+
Programming: Turbo Pascal 6.0 for DOS
Productivity: Point of Sale Cash Register
Productivity: Policies Now
Productivity: Family Tree Maker
Game: Jeopardy
Game: Cyborgirl Pinball
Accouting: Quicken QuickBooks
Programming: Turbo Pascal
Programming: Turbo Assembler
Game: Space Invaders
Game: Space Invaders 78
Game: Monopoly
Game: PacMan
Music: Voyetra Sequencer Plus Pro MIDI


I would say the killer app right now to do with a 8088 is to run Jim Leonard's 8088 domination demo. It's basically running color full motion video in your IBM PC. You can also get the utility and render any video with sound that you wish. I really want my own 8088 to do this.

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=63591

dmemphis
January 31st, 2017, 07:28 PM
Thanks!
I'm chasing many of these things down.

Also looking for source code or binaries of short demos that could be integrated into combined presentation
that illustrate specific capabilities.

Anything come to mind?

1ST1
February 1st, 2017, 04:16 AM
You definitvely need "setkey.com".

It's a little tsr gag program where smileys move on any text mode screen and eliminate all zeros. You can start several instances of setkey and there will be more and more of the smileys running arround.

It looks like there is a virus on the PC and some antivirus tools still detect that com file as gag and want to eleminate it.

Shadow Lord
February 1st, 2017, 07:27 AM
Are you limiting yourself to a STOCK 5150? I used to run Windows 3 on my XT w/ a NEC V20 chip. Of course I had to format the 10MB HDD, copy all the win 3 disks onto it - install and then erase the install media but it worked.... Nothing like Win 3 on 5160 running at 1024x768x16 resolution.... :D

Casey
February 8th, 2017, 05:48 PM
Probably not in the same league, but I always liked the old Compaq MS-DOS demo.bas myself.

archeocomp
February 8th, 2017, 09:51 PM
My vote goes to OrCAD, Alley Cat and not yet mentioned Norton or Volkov Commander.

nigwil
February 9th, 2017, 12:38 AM
for me it is Xenix or similar early Unices or for graphics then this: VisiON http://toastytech.com/guis/vision.html

clh333
February 9th, 2017, 03:42 AM
My vote goes to Sydex's 22Disk and 22Nice, or any of Dave Dunfield's code.

I find this site to be a useful source; also have uploaded some of the titles in my library: https://winworldpc.com/library

-CH-

dmemphis
February 9th, 2017, 04:50 AM
for me it is Xenix or similar early Unices or for graphics then this: VisiON http://toastytech.com/guis/vision.html

Ah yes, VisiOn. With VisiCalc's success one wonders how they didn't garner serious attention.
I don't remember it at all. Never hit my radar. Even a great name.
Its probably been debated many times. I would venture a guess that in CGA monochrome it
just didn't have the screen real estate to be viable. Hercules resolution would have shown been better
if they could have been tied in with the development.
That's where Valdocs on the QX-10 probably had a visual appeal edge. Hi res on the QX-10 was relatively nice.
Both lacked icons a graphical environment with the iconic "icons" so at a glance the layman may
not have perceived the big difference from other software.
Also VisiOn was released late, was pricey and its operating environment precluded running other apps- ouch.

But it was a bold innovations! This definitely deserves to be something to demo.
There are some challenges in its requirements- fat12, mouse systems mouse.

This is interesting to me as a software developer, from that website:

"A very interesting feature of Visi On is the way it was designed. It was designed to be portable to other OSes such as CP/M or Unix, or to other CPUs besides the 8086. It did this by providing a kind of non machine specific "virtual machine" (called the Visi Machine) that all applications were written for. Only the very core of Visi On (called the Visi Host) was machine specific.

Applications were developed in "Visi C", a fairly restricted subset of C designed for maximum portability. The development environment was Unix based and included a non-graphical version of the Visi-Host that let portions of Visi-On applications be run and tested on Unix.

Sounds kind of like Java or .Net doesn't it?"

Yes it does.

After quite some time poking around, I still can't answer a fundamental question:
who's brain child was all of that portabiliy/virtual machine computer science? I can't find a quick answer.
I met Bob Franston at VCFEast a few years ago, and he spoke of some virtual machine concepts developed
for VisiCalc, so was it Vision's technical underpinnings his?

I guess so if "they" in sentence two refers to Software Arts.

From Dan Bricklin's site:
"The main reason is that just as Software Arts was thinking of going public it was hit by a lawsuit from VisiCorp, Dan Flystra's renamed distribution company. They were just in the process of producing VisiOn, which they though would replace VisiCalc as their best earner. There were lots or arguments between Software Arts and VisiCorp but the final split resulted in a $60 million lawsuit alleging that Software Arts had failed to enhance VisiCalc and produce new versions. Software Arts hit back with a lawsuit claiming that VisiCorp had favored its own products at the expense of VisiCalc."

another good vision read https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Visi%20On&item_type=topic

bhtooefr
February 9th, 2017, 04:53 AM
Also worth finding a copy of the 360k QNX demo disk (yes, there was one back then).

dmemphis
February 9th, 2017, 05:00 AM
My vote goes to Sydex's 22Disk and 22Nice, or any of Dave Dunfield's code.

I find this site to be a useful source; also have uploaded some of the titles in my library: https://winworldpc.com/library

-CH-

Thank you.
These are interesting examples of what it took to bridge oneself from the CP/M 8 bit world
into the bold new Intel 16 bit world. For certain audiences that can be interesting!
I just started to use them last year (after all this time!) :O

dmemphis
February 9th, 2017, 05:24 AM
Also worth finding a copy of the 360k QNX demo disk (yes, there was one back then).

Oh interesting! I knew of it but never got a chance to see it back in the day.

dmemphis
February 9th, 2017, 10:25 AM
Regarding VisiOn:

After quite some time poking around, I still can't answer a fundamental question:
who's brain child was all of that portabiliy/virtual machine computer science? I can't find a quick answer.
[/url]

In another post "another rabbit hole" on the TRS-80 genre, the answer came forth related to
a z80 verison of smalltalk.
The answer is Rosetta!
It is spelled out in clear term what they did on the project:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040401144646/http://www.rosetta.com/TechHistory.html#rosetta-smalltalk