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Grandcheapskate
January 31st, 2017, 09:21 AM
I have also posted this question in the following thread, but thought it might be better asked here.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55179-Incresing-Storage-on-a-Pentium-Machine&p=445653#post445653

Today I took eight OEM SCSI drives (two 34gb and six 72gb) and one by one hooked them into a WinXP machine so I could use DISKPART to remove an OEM EISA partition, leaving the drive completely blank. All eight drives were accessible on the WinXP machine at full capacity, but I did not partition any of them permanently.

I did experiment with partitioning and formatting one of them while on the XP machine. I was unable to create a single partition for the entire capacity using FAT32 - I had to use NTFS. I don't understand this since I thought FAT32 could go to about 128gb. After this test, I deleted the partition.

I then took one of the 72gb drives and hooked it into a Pentium 90 running Win95b. This machine currently has a 10gb IDE drive using EZ-BIOS since the AWARD BIOS is limited to accessing 8gb. When I went to FDISK, it only sees the 72gb drive as a little over 3gb. I then swapped in a 34gb drive and the machine sees the whole drive.

Based on what I have read, I can understand why the FDISK utility on the Win95 machine does not see more than 32gb. But why does it only see 3gb of the 72gb drive? My initial guess is it is looping around the drive twice and there is 3gb left on it's third "loop"...and even that doesn't make sense.

Any idea what is happening?

Could the EZ-BIOS software (which is installed on the IDE boot drive) be causing interference? And if so, does this mean EZ-BIOS is being applied to every drive on the system? If that is the case, I will not be able to copy the data from the IDE drive to the SCSI drive to eliminate EZ-BIOS on this machine...at least not while both source and target drives are on this machine.

Thanks...Joe

yuhong
January 31st, 2017, 09:26 AM
I have also posted this question in the following thread, but thought it might be better asked here.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55179-Incresing-Storage-on-a-Pentium-Machine&p=445653#post445653

Today I took eight OEM SCSI drives (two 34gb and six 72gb) and one by one hooked them into a WinXP machine so I could use DISKPART to remove an OEM EISA partition, leaving the drive completely blank. All eight drives were accessible on the WinXP machine at full capacity, but I did not partition any of them permanently.

I did experiment with partitioning and formatting one of them while on the XP machine. I was unable to create a single partition for the entire capacity using FAT32 - I had to use NTFS. I don't understand this since I thought FAT32 could go to about 128gb. After this test, I deleted the partition.

I then took one of the 72gb drives and hooked it into a Pentium 90 running Win95b. This machine currently has a 10gb IDE drive using EZ-BIOS since the AWARD BIOS is limited to accessing 8gb. When I went to FDISK, it only sees the 72gb drive as a little over 3gb. I then swapped in a 34gb drive and the machine sees the whole drive.

Based on what I have read, I can understand why the FDISK utility on the Win95 machine does not see more than 32gb. But why does it only see 3gb of the 72gb drive? My initial guess is it is looping around the drive twice and there is 3gb left on it's third "loop"...and even that doesn't make sense.

Any idea what is happening?

Could the EZ-BIOS software (which is installed on the IDE boot drive) be causing interference? And if so, does this mean EZ-BIOS is being applied to every drive on the system? If that is the case, I will not be able to copy the data from the IDE drive to the SCSI drive to eliminate EZ-BIOS on this machine...at least not while both source and target drives are on this machine.

Thanks...Joe

I wonder if the problem is 16-bit integer truncation or something like that.

Grandcheapskate
January 31st, 2017, 09:44 AM
By the way, I am using a PCI Adaptec 2940UW SCSI controller and the 68 pin cable. The drives are 80 pin SCA types and I am using an adapter so I can connect the 68 pin ribbon cable. I am using the same physical controller, cable and adapter when I access the drives on the Win XP machine and the Win95 machine.

Joe

Stone
January 31st, 2017, 09:50 AM
Today I took eight OEM SCSI drives (two 34gb and six 72gb) and one by one hooked them into a WinXP machine so I could use DISKPART to remove an OEM EISA partition, leaving the drive completely blank. All eight drives were accessible on the WinXP machine at full capacity, but I did not partition any of them permanently.

I did experiment with partitioning and formatting one of them while on the XP machine. I was unable to create a single partition for the entire capacity using FAT32 - I had to use NTFS. I don't understand this since I thought FAT32 could go to about 128gb. After this test, I deleted the partition.You cannot format a volume larger than 32 gigabytes (GB) in size using the FAT32 file system during the Windows XP installation process. Windows XP can mount and support FAT32 volumes larger than 32 GB (subject to the other limits), but you cannot create a FAT32 volume larger than 32 GB by using the Format tool during Setup. If you need to format a volume that is larger than 32 GB, use the NTFS file system to format it. Another option is to start from a Microsoft Windows 98 or Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (Me) Startup disk and use the Format tool included on the disk.



I then took one of the 72gb drives and hooked it into a Pentium 90 running Win95b. This machine currently has a 10gb IDE drive using EZ-BIOS since the AWARD BIOS is limited to accessing 8gb. When I went to FDISK, it only sees the 72gb drive as a little over 3gb. I then swapped in a 34gb drive and the machine sees the whole drive.

Based on what I have read, I can understand why the FDISK utility on the Win95 machine does not see more than 32gb. But why does it only see 3gb of the 72gb drive? My initial guess is it is looping around the drive twice and there is 3gb left on it's third "loop"...and even that doesn't make sense.The Award BIOS limit I am familiar with is 33.8 GB. The Int 13 Interface is what is commonly referred to as the 8 GB limit.

SomeGuy
January 31st, 2017, 10:05 AM
First of all, the Windows XP formatter simply wants to make you use NTFS. You will need to use a different formatter. Usually I recommend just using FDISK, but it if give you too much trouble try a Linux boot CD.

There is an FDISK update from Microsoft intended for Windows 98 SE, but it will work fine under the Windows 95 OSR 2 DOS. Note that it still has some cosmetic display formatting problems when partitioning large drives, but it should work fine.

Technically FAT32 can go all the way up to 2TB. But I have run in to some serious problems in real-mode DOS with partitions over 128GB (not LBA related). Keep individual partitions 120GB or less and you should be fine.

I don't know off hand if BIOS overlay software would interfere with the BIOS on that card. I also don't know what the upper BIOS limits of that card are, although I happen to have one of those cards in my machine.

Grandcheapskate
January 31st, 2017, 10:23 AM
First of all, the Windows XP formatter simply wants to make you use NTFS. You will need to use a different formatter. Usually I recommend just using FDISK, but it if give you too much trouble try a Linux boot CD.

There is an FDISK update from Microsoft intended for Windows 98 SE, but it will work fine under the Windows 95 OSR 2 DOS. Note that it still has some cosmetic display formatting problems when partitioning large drives, but it should work fine.

Technically FAT32 can go all the way up to 2TB. But I have run in to some serious problems in real-mode DOS with partitions over 128GB (not LBA related). Keep individual partitions 120GB or less and you should be fine.

I don't know off hand if BIOS overlay software would interfere with the BIOS on that card. I also don't know what the upper BIOS limits of that card are, although I happen to have one of those cards in my machine.

Stone: Thanks for the reply. I was not trying to format the drive during the XP installation process, but after the OS was up and running (using IDE drives). Still, the XP Disk Manager seems to have the 32gb limit for FAT32. The Win95 machine has one of those Award BIOS with the problem discussed in the other thread. Even with the INT13 Extension, it will not "see" the capacity of an IDE drive greater than 8gb (without EZ-BIOS) and will hang during boot if I simply install a large drive; the cutoff is somewhere between 20gb and 40gb. This is unrelated to Win95.

Someguy: The SCSI controller is capable of accessing these drives as it does so without an issue on the Win XP machine. Formatting these drives under Win98SE is certainly possible. But if I want to use them on the Win95 machine, why is Win95 FDISK only seeing 3gb of a 72gb drive, yet seeing all of a 34gb drive? That is the thing which is confusing me the most. I am assuming that even if I format the 72gb drive on a Win98 machine, when I install it on a Win95 machine it will not be accessible.

Thanks...Joe

krebizfan
January 31st, 2017, 11:11 AM
The XP FAT32 formatting tool is restricted to 32GB. You will need to pick up a third party tool.

Some examples follow:
http://knowledge.seagate.com/ka030000000tlrmAAA which uses Seagate's Disc Wizard tool.
http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?fat32format.htm
http://www.partition-tool.com/personal.htm

There were internal limits as to the biggest drive possible drive under Windows 9x. I think Win95 was restricted to 32GB and Win98 to 128GB. I don't remember what the status was on patches for it and I don't know where to locate a Win95 friendly DDO for SCSI.

I would try, in XP, creating multiple partitions of 32GB or less from the 72GB drive and seeing if Win95 sees the partitions. You should try smaller partitions if possible. IIRC, a 72GB partition will need 9MB of RAM to store the FAT. If your system does not have enough surplus memory to cache all the drives FATs, the system will be very slow.

Stone
January 31st, 2017, 11:21 AM
Even with the INT13 Extension, it will not "see" the capacity of an IDE drive greater than 8gb (without EZ-BIOS) and will hang during boot if I simply install a large drive; the cutoff is somewhere between 20gb and 40gb. This is unrelated to Win95.Yes, it is the Award BIOS 33.8 GB limit. :-)

Chuck(G)
January 31st, 2017, 11:56 AM
For what it's worth, there are two Linux live CDs that are an essential part of my toolkit. The first is gparted, a very flexible OS-agnostic partition editor. The second is clonezilla--a disk cloning tool.

lutiana
January 31st, 2017, 11:58 AM
According to here: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/bios/sizeGB30-c.html Windows 95 will not support drives larger than 32Gb, sounds like it's a hard coded limit, though I can't find much info on it anywhere.

Personally I'd try partitioning the 74Gb drive with a Win98SE boot disk and create a 72Gb FAT32 partition, then boot up Win95 and see what happens. If you can read and write to it, then you're set. If not, then you can try multiple 32Gb partitions and see how that goes.

SomeGuy
January 31st, 2017, 12:17 PM
According to here: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/bios/sizeGB30-c.html Windows 95 will not support drives larger than 32Gb, sounds like it's a hard coded limit, though I can't find much info on it anywhere.
I regularly use Windows 95 OSR-2 with a 500gb hard drive (120GB partitions as mentioned above) and several 320GB external hard drives (set to not be accessible in DOS, so they are a full 320GB partition)

Oh, and the size issue with FDISK/Format should just be a display issue wrapping around at 64GB. Should be completely cosmetic and still format correctly.

lutiana
January 31st, 2017, 12:23 PM
I regularly use Windows 95 OSR-2 with a 500gb hard drive (120GB partitions as mentioned above) and several 320GB external hard drives (set to not be accessible in DOS, so they are a full 320GB partition)

Oh, and the size issue with FDISK/Format should just be a display issue wrapping around at 64GB. Should be completely cosmetic and still format correctly.

Yeah, that is what I suspected, I don't have an SCSI drives that are larger than 20Gb, otherwise I'd test it myself.

So the fix here is simple, use a Win98SE or better yet a WinME boot disk, then fdisk and format the drive into whatever size partition you want, then reboot into Windows 95 and it should work fine.

yuhong
January 31st, 2017, 04:31 PM
I wonder if the problem is 16-bit integer truncation or something like that.

Thinking about it, I wonder if raising the limit in Win98 FDISK from 32GB to 64GB was just a matter of changing one 16-bit integer from signed to unsigned.

Grandcheapskate
January 31st, 2017, 07:01 PM
I regularly use Windows 95 OSR-2 with a 500gb hard drive (120GB partitions as mentioned above) and several 320GB external hard drives (set to not be accessible in DOS, so they are a full 320GB partition)

Oh, and the size issue with FDISK/Format should just be a display issue wrapping around at 64GB. Should be completely cosmetic and still format correctly.

By "wrapping around", is this the reason my 72gb drive is showing as only a 3gb drive in Win95s FDISK?

At this time, I have partitioned one of the 34gb disks and I am in the process of coping all the data from the existing 10gb IDE drive to the 34gb drive. Once completed, I should be able to remove the 10gb drive and boot to Win95 off the 34gb SCSI. At that point the machine will be cut over from IDE to SCSI and I won't have to worry about the IDE limits or use extra software. Then I can tackle the 72gb disk issue.

Thanks...Joe

Chuck(G)
January 31st, 2017, 08:10 PM
Win98SE is probably the best answer to problem. FAT32 can get to be pretty inefficient as it gets big. The FAT structure uses 32 bits for each allocation unit. NTFS, on the other hand, has various shortcuts for file organization.

Grandcheapskate
February 1st, 2017, 12:41 PM
Well, I booted the machine off a Win98SE boot disk with the 72gb SCSI drive installed (but not partitioned). I left the 10gb IDE drive in place but did not let EZ-BIOS load since I had no intention of accessing the IDE drive during this session. That should eliminate EZ-BIOS as playing any role in this issue.

Once the machine booted up, I ran FDISK (from the floppy) and it still only shows the SCSI drive as a little over 3gb - the same as the Win95 FDISK. I went ahead and tried to create a primary partition of 12gb which it would not let me do. So it seems as if I cannot partition this large a drive on this machine.

My next attempt will be to partition the drive on a WinXP machine and then hook it back up to the Win95 machine and see if I can format it. If I still cannot access the full drive, I have to assume something in the BIOS code of this machine is preventing it.

If there are other ideas, I'd like to hear them.

Thanks...Joe

lutiana
February 1st, 2017, 12:44 PM
Partition and format it in on the XP machine with the Win98SE boot disk. Windows 95 may have some issues with formatting the 72Gb drive as FAT32, plus you'll allready have the disk installed on the machine, so you may as well do it all on there.

Another thing to try is using a third party tool on the Win95 machine, such as Partition Magic.

Stone
February 1st, 2017, 01:17 PM
If I still cannot access the full drive, I have to assume something in the BIOS code of this machine is preventing it.Are we still talking about the machine with the Award BIOS?

Grandcheapskate
February 1st, 2017, 06:38 PM
Are we still talking about the machine with the Award BIOS?

Yes, but we are now talking about SCSI drives and not IDE drives. Are you thinking the BIOS is limiting my access to SCSI drives as well?

By the way, the machine with the Award BIOS seems to only see 8gb of the 10gb drive when EZ-BIOS is not loaded, even with LBA. I'm guessing that's why I loaded EZ-BIOS years ago.

Lutiana: I was also thinking of using the Win98SE boot disk on the Win XP (Athlon) machine to see if the problem resides with the Win95 machine BIOS code. If I can partition and format on the Athlon machine using the same boot disk as I used on the Win95 machine, I have found my problem.

Thanks...Joe

Grandcheapskate
February 2nd, 2017, 11:08 AM
Lutiana: I was also thinking of using the Win98SE boot disk on the Win XP (Athlon) machine to see if the problem resides with the Win95 machine BIOS code. If I can partition and format on the Athlon machine using the same boot disk as I used on the Win95 machine, I have found my problem.

I just booted the Athlon machine with a Win98SE floppy. FDISK is showing me the same 3gb total for the 72gb drive as I saw on the Pentium machine. And it's a true 3gb as I cannot specify a partition larger than 3gb. Very odd. It seems I am seeing something different than others.

As long as I have the 72gb drive hooked into the Athlon WinXP machine, I'll partition it with WinXP and then put it back into the Win95 Pentium machine and see what I see.

Joe

lutiana
February 2nd, 2017, 11:20 AM
Might be time to get some third party tools. Try using Gparted (http://gparted.org/) on the Athlon machine, it's free and easy. It will definitely be able to see the whole 72Gb, and if ti does not then the issue has to be with the hardware somewhere.

Agent Orange
February 2nd, 2017, 11:46 AM
Joe:

Looks like that machine is giving you fits. What mobo, chip, RAM, and chipset are you using? I might be able to cobble something together to help figure out what's going on.

Tom

Grandcheapskate
February 2nd, 2017, 12:06 PM
Might be time to get some third party tools. Try using Gparted (http://gparted.org/) on the Athlon machine, it's free and easy. It will definitely be able to see the whole 72Gb, and if ti does not then the issue has to be with the hardware somewhere.


Joe:

Looks like that machine is giving you fits. What mobo, chip, RAM, and chipset are you using? I might be able to cobble something together to help figure out what's going on.

Tom

Interesting test I just tried. On the Athlon machine I used DISKPART to partition the drive. I only recently learned of DISKPART so I am no expert. I was able to create an extended partition (it did not ask me for a size and used the entire drive) but was unable to do anything else. Any attempt to create a volume gave me an error message. WinXP's Disk Management shows the drive as having one large extended partition.

So I left the drive partitioned and tried to boot via the floppy, intending to use FDISK. However, the boot process hung. I can boot the machine to Win XP but cannot boot off the floppy.

Using Disk Management, I can create logical drives in the extended partition created by DISKPART as FAT32 as long as I stay below 32gb. I think I will create three logical drives, format them, and then put the drive back in the P90 and see what I see.

Tom: Are you looking for the hardware from the P90 or the Athlon? I have to look up both.

Joe

lutiana
February 2nd, 2017, 12:39 PM
Have you tried a Window ME boot disk and FDISK? From what I have read it sounds like the FDISK in Windows ME is better for larger (32Gb+) drives.

Chuck(G)
February 2nd, 2017, 12:44 PM
As far as I know, you need at least one primary partition on a drive (which is what you want to boot from). You can then create sub-partitions within a second extended partition. Alternatively, you can create a single large primary partition. But an extended partition by itself isn't very useful.

The notion of an extended partition was introduced to get past the original DOS partition table of 4 partitions. The extended partition, if you will, is a "container" for secondary partitions.

SomeGuy
February 2nd, 2017, 12:45 PM
Management shows the drive as having one large extended partition.
Warning: Windows 9x does not like having all of the partitions inside an extended partition. The first partition must be a primary partition. Otherwise the partitions will not be visible from real-mode DOS.

Agent Orange
February 2nd, 2017, 12:52 PM
Tom: Are you looking for the hardware from the P90 or the Athlon? I have to look up both.

Joe

The Athlon. You may want to try Partition Magic, version 7 or 8 should work. I've always had good results with it.

Grandcheapskate
February 2nd, 2017, 01:02 PM
I think I got it figured out. At least, how to get around all the problems I have been having.

I understand the need for a primary partition, but a primary is only needed on the first hard drive in the system. For all the other drives, only an extended partition is needed. This is important because of the way drive letters are assigned in DOS. In order to insure the drive letters on my first drive will never change, I never create a primary partition on another drive.

Here is the process which looks to be working (I only created an extended partition)...

(1) Partition the drive under Win XP. Whether for a primary (under 32gb) and extended or just an extended.

(2) On the Win XP machine, create logical drives under 32gb in the extended partition (which is larger than 32gb).

(3) The drive can now be put into the Win95 machine and each drive formatted using FORMAT.


The Win95 FDISK still shows the overall size of the disk as 3gb, but shows each individual drive as the correct size. In the Win95 machine, the SCSI drive is the second drive which is why I only needed an extended partition. Should I choose to remove the IDE (boot) drive from the machine, I will need to create both a primary and extended partition on the SCSI drive.

But at least it looks like I can use the full 72gb drive on the Pentium under Win95.

Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions.

Joe

Stone
February 2nd, 2017, 01:48 PM
... But an extended partition by itself isn't very useful...Actually, it's quite useful it is if it's on the second hard drive. :-)

Chuck(G)
February 2nd, 2017, 02:12 PM
Even on second, third... hard drives, I place a bootable primary partition with a boot manager. You never know when it will come in handy.

Stone
February 2nd, 2017, 03:41 PM
Even on second, third... hard drives, I place a bootable primary partition with a boot manager. You never know when it will come in handy.But that breaks one of Joe's Cardinal rules:


I understand the need for a primary partition, but a primary is only needed on the first hard drive in the system. For all the other drives, only an extended partition is needed. This is important because of the way drive letters are assigned in DOS. In order to insure the drive letters on my first drive will never change, I never create a primary partition on another drive.And, as I'm sure you know, with multiple drives, EVERY primary partition is assigned a drive letter first and THEN the remaining drive letters are assigned to the extended partitions. And this would not make Joe a happy camper. :-)

Grandcheapskate
February 7th, 2017, 09:04 AM
Okay...I thought I had it. Apparently I am not there yet.

Here's where I am at. A Pentium 90 running W95 has a 10gb IDE drive partitioned into a primary partition (C) and extended partition with logical drives D through O. Because of the BIOS, I have to use Maxtor's EZ-BIOS to access the full 10gb. No problems with this setup for years.

Now I want to convert over to a 72gb SCSI drive. The plan is to create a smallish primary partition on the SCSI drive and a large extended partition with two logical drives.

Because Win95's FDISK will not let me partition this large a SCSI drive, I have partitioned the drive on an Athlon processor running WinXP. I have a 9.xgb primary partition and a 60gb extended partition broken into two 30gb logical drives. I did not format the drives. All looks good on the WinXP machine.

I then hook the SCSI drive into the W95 machine, leaving the IDE drive in place. On the second hard drive (the SCSI drive), FDISK shows me a primary D: drive and two logical drives Q: and R:. As expected, the system inserted the primary partition as drive D: and pushed all the logical drives on the IDE drive down one letter.

Now, here is where it gets weird. I format the D: drive with the /S option, give it a label (SCSI00 HPC) and get no problem. I can even format the Q: and R: drives. No problems.

Now I reboot the machine. Although FDISK still shows the first partition on the SCSI drive as drive D:, any attempt to access the D: drive results is a "Not ready reading drive D" message. Windows Explorer shows a D: drive exists but cannot be accessed. It also shows no label associated with the D drive.

Where is the drive I formatted? All of a sudden there is an S: drive with the label SCSI00 HPC and it contains the system files copied when I formatted the drive as drive D:.

So, any ideas what is happening?

Thanks...Joe

lutiana
February 7th, 2017, 09:27 AM
Sounds like Windows has done something funny with the drive letter assignments. Go into device manager and remove the drivers associated with the drive, then reboot and let Windows re-install them and reboot again. This might fix the issue.

I am curious though, if you exit to DOS from Windows, what do the drive letters do then?

Stone
February 7th, 2017, 10:11 AM
... Now, here is where it gets weird. I format the D: drive with the /S option, give it a label (SCSI00 HPC) and get no problem. I can even format the Q: and R: drives. No problems.

Now I reboot the machine. Although FDISK still shows the first partition on the SCSI drive as drive D:, any attempt to access the D: drive results is a "Not ready reading drive D" message. Windows Explorer shows a D: drive exists but cannot be accessed. It also shows no label associated with the D drive.

Where is the drive I formatted? All of a sudden there is an S: drive with the label SCSI00 HPC and it contains the system files copied when I formatted the drive as drive D:.

So, any ideas what is happening?1) Is this still in the machine with the flawed AWARD BIOS?

2) Has this BIOS ever been patched or replaced?

3) This SCSI drive does function properly in a machine other than the one with this AWARD BIOS, correct?

Does this make any sense at all?

Grandcheapskate
February 7th, 2017, 11:36 AM
Sounds like Windows has done something funny with the drive letter assignments. Go into device manager and remove the drivers associated with the drive, then reboot and let Windows re-install them and reboot again. This might fix the issue.

I am curious though, if you exit to DOS from Windows, what do the drive letters do then?

I don't want to remove the drivers yet.

Just let me be real clear on what happened here. On the first boot after installing the SCSI (and while the drives were not yet formatted), Windows saw the three drives as D, Q and R --- exactly as I expected. I was able to format and access them using those letters.

When I rebooted, Windows Explorer shows a D drive with no label and is inaccessible. It also shows an S drive containing the system files from the FORMAT and it has the label I used during the FORMAT. Same result if I use the DOS prompt. I can access the S drive apparently without a problem. Amazingly, FDISK shows everything correctly. It shows a 9.xgb D drive and two logical drives Q and R.

I need to perform another test which is to create only an extended partition on the SCSI drive, with three logical drives of under 32gb each, and see how it behaves on the Win95 machine.


1) Is this still in the machine with the flawed AWARD BIOS?

2) Has this BIOS ever been patched or replaced?

3) This SCSI drive does function properly in a machine other than the one with this AWARD BIOS, correct?

Does this make any sense at all?

1) Yes, it is the machine with the Award BIOS. Is it your opinion the BIOS limit effects not just IDE drives, but SCSI drives as well?

2) BIOS has never been replaced or patched.

3) It seems to function perfectly on the Athlon machine with WinXP. I don't do much with it on the Athlon machine except to partition and format. It also seemed to work on the P90 the one time I tried it when only an extended partition was on the SCSI drive.

I only get a small amount of time every day to play around with this stuff. Hopefully I get to try the extended partition test today.

Joe

Chuck(G)
February 7th, 2017, 11:47 AM
But that breaks one of Joe's Cardinal rules:

And, as I'm sure you know, with multiple drives, EVERY primary partition is assigned a drive letter first and THEN the remaining drive letters are assigned to the extended partitions. And this would not make Joe a happy camper. :-)

If you don't like Windows/DOS assigning primary partitions letters, you can always change the partition type to something non-DOS/Windows.

As to the original question, how about a smaller boot partition with the appropriate ASPI drivers for the disk? BIOS shouldn't matter then.

Stone
February 7th, 2017, 11:53 AM
Joe, don't you think the AWARD BIOS is the culprit? I still do.

If you don't think it's the BIOS, remove the IDE with the DDO from the CMOS leaving only the SCSI as the primary drive. Boot from an appropriate floppy and examine the SCSI with FDISK. Make it bootable with an appropriate OS. See what happens. If all the SCSI's drives appear to act normally then you probably are experiencing DDO interference of some sort.

lutiana
February 7th, 2017, 12:54 PM
Stone - The AWARD BIOS won't affect the SCSI drives, they are driven by their own BIOS. There is next to no chance that this is the culprit. Besides, as OP said, the drive is working, it's the drive letters that have become all screwed up.

My guess is when you formatted them and rebooted Windows had a freak out and re-assigned the drive letter and for some reason kept the original drive letter available. When I said remove the drives I meant for the drive itself, not the SCSI card. This won't affect anything else in the system and once done you should see all the drive letters associated with that drive disappear (including the defunct D drive). Once you reboot and windows see the drive and re-installs the driver (built in driver, no user intervention would be needed) it will then re-assign drive letters to the thing and should land where you expected.

There are ways to re-assign drive letters in Windows 9x, but these involve registry edits, and can get quite complex. I am suggestion you circumvent that and by removing the driver for the HDD itself Windows will remove the reg keys for drive letter assignments, and when you reboot and Windows re-installs this the keys should be re-created and will use the correct drive letters (the ones you expect).

lutiana
February 7th, 2017, 12:57 PM
Is it your opinion the BIOS limit effects not just IDE drives, but SCSI drives as well?


No. The system BIOS has very little to do with the SCSI drives. Everything you are describing says OS issues to me, not hardware.

lutiana
February 7th, 2017, 01:23 PM
Try this: http://sta.c64.org/dlmanip.html

Grandcheapskate
February 7th, 2017, 03:59 PM
My guess is when you formatted them and rebooted Windows had a freak out and re-assigned the drive letter and for some reason kept the original drive letter available. When I said remove the drives I meant for the drive itself, not the SCSI card. This won't affect anything else in the system and once done you should see all the drive letters associated with that drive disappear (including the defunct D drive). Once you reboot and windows see the drive and re-installs the driver (built in driver, no user intervention would be needed) it will then re-assign drive letters to the thing and should land where you expected.

There are ways to re-assign drive letters in Windows 9x, but these involve registry edits, and can get quite complex. I am suggestion you circumvent that and by removing the driver for the HDD itself Windows will remove the reg keys for drive letter assignments, and when you reboot and Windows re-installs this the keys should be re-created and will use the correct drive letters (the ones you expect).

Just a quick update. I unconnected the SCSI and rebooted the machine. All drive letters were back to "normal" - the D drive was once again the first logical drive in the extended partition. I then reconnected the SCSI drive and rebooted...result was the same as before. A "phantom" D drive, the extended logical drives as Q and R and the primary partition drive as S.

I have a couple more tests to do.

Thanks...Joe

Agent Orange
February 7th, 2017, 05:09 PM
Joe,

I only have 1 SCSI HD and 2 Trantor T-130 controllers to play with. One of T-130's has an onboard BIOS and the other doesn't. There is a jumper on the T-130 that lets the user select whether or not the SCSI HD should be bootable. Check the manual for your Adaptec (http://download.adaptec.com/pdfs/user_guides/aha294xuwof_ug.pdf), as you may want to run the SCSI BIOS setup and see if you can change the SCSI boot routine. I'm thinking your SCSI controller wants to boot every time and it needs to be passive, hence the drive letters are out of sequence.

Tom

Grandcheapskate
February 8th, 2017, 01:01 PM
Joe,

I only have 1 SCSI HD and 2 Trantor T-130 controllers to play with. One of T-130's has an onboard BIOS and the other doesn't. There is a jumper on the T-130 that lets the user select whether or not the SCSI HD should be bootable. Check the manual for your Adaptec (http://download.adaptec.com/pdfs/user_guides/aha294xuwof_ug.pdf), as you may want to run the SCSI BIOS setup and see if you can change the SCSI boot routine. I'm thinking your SCSI controller wants to boot every time and it needs to be passive, hence the drive letters are out of sequence.

Tom

Hi Tom,
I don't think this has an effect on what is happening here. The Boot Priority in the system BIOS is set to "A,C,SCSI" so the system isn't looking at the SCSI drive until checking the A and C drives. As far as the BIOS on the SCSI card, one of the SCSI drives must be designated as the boot drive - there is no way around this. But since I have an OS either on the A or C drive, there is no attempt to boot off the SCSI drive. My testing today confirmed this and also led me to a possible conclusion.

To be brief, I attempted a few things using the 72gb drive and every one of them led to the same result - a primary partition on the SCSI drive got screwed up. No matter how large or small I made the primary partition, it always disappeared on the Win95 machine after it was formatted. Interesting note: after being formatted on the Win95 machine and then being inaccessible, it was accessible on the Athlon machine and the files were there.

I then took one of the 32gb SCSI drives and did the same things I was doing to the 72gb drive and it worked fine. I have even been able to copy the contents of the IDE primary partition to the primary partition on the 32gb SCSI drive and boot the system from the SCSI drive.

So whatever is happening, it is only happening to the larger drive.

Another very odd thing I noticed today. I used XCOPY32 to copy all the files on the IDE drive to the SCSI drive. At first I booted with a Win95 floppy and when I went to use XCOPY32 (off the floppy), some of the options I wanted weren't listed. So I tried to use the XCOPY32 program from the hard drive and still some options weren't available. I then booted off the IDE drive, and when I looked at the options for XCOPY32, there were a lot more of them. It seems some options get added to XCOPY32 when you do a full boot off the hard drive.

Joe

Stone
February 8th, 2017, 01:16 PM
To be brief, I attempted a few things using the 72gb drive and every one of them led to the same result - a primary partition on the SCSI drive got screwed up. No matter how large or small I made the primary partition, it always disappeared on the Win95 machine after it was formatted. Interesting note: after being formatted on the Win95 machine and then being inaccessible, it was accessible on the Athlon machine and the files were there.

I then took one of the 32gb SCSI drives and did the same things I was doing to the 72gb drive and it worked fine. I have even been able to copy the contents of the IDE primary partition to the primary partition on the 32gb SCSI drive and boot the system from the SCSI drive.

So whatever is happening, it is only happening to the larger drive.As weird as it sounds your WIN 95B seems to be acting as if it's WIN 95A :-)

BTW, you've been beating your head against the wall for so long that you should just use XP and be done with it!

Chuck(G)
February 8th, 2017, 02:00 PM
...or at least try Win98SE.

The big difference between XP and 9x and the way SCSI drive access is performed, I believe, is that 9x uses the INT 13H BIOS extension ROM present on the controller, while XP has its own set of SCSI drivers. I wonder what would happen under Windows if the ASPI32 driver would be used with the ASPIDISK device-specific driver. This would seem to remove the disk from the limited BIOS access routines.

Just a thought...

lutiana
February 8th, 2017, 03:41 PM
What I think you should do is try and work out where that D: is coming from, what it is mapped to. Since you say that you have a higher up drive letter that does appear to the be partition in question. For all you know that bad D: might be pointing to the IDE hard drive for some reason.

I am curious though, when you boot from a floppy (with the overlay for the IDE enabled), do the drive letters work out like they should? Does the D: work? If so, then issue would be clearly with your Windows 95 install, and maybe as simple as working out the drive letter assignments and changing them around.

Grandcheapskate
February 8th, 2017, 07:06 PM
What I think you should do is try and work out where that D: is coming from, what it is mapped to. Since you say that you have a higher up drive letter that does appear to the be partition in question. For all you know that bad D: might be pointing to the IDE hard drive for some reason.

I am curious though, when you boot from a floppy (with the overlay for the IDE enabled), do the drive letters work out like they should? Does the D: work? If so, then issue would be clearly with your Windows 95 install, and maybe as simple as working out the drive letter assignments and changing them around.

When I boot off a floppy with EZ-BIOS enabled (and either no SCSI or the SCSI drive not partitioned), all the drive letters are correct. The D drive is the first logical drive within the extended partition of the IDE drive. Is that what you are asking?

When I introduce the SCSI drive and create a primary partition on that drive, all the IDE logical drive letters drop down one spot (D becomes E, etc.). After the D drive (SCSI primary partition) is formatted and the system rebooted, the D drive is inaccessible and the SCSI primary partition (which was formatted as the D drive) shows up as the last drive letter, even after any logical drives created on the SCSI disk. This does not happen when I use the 32gb drive.

Tomorrow I am going to try a test.

(1) I am going to partition the 72gb drive on the Athlon machine --- a 9gb primary partition and a 60gb extended partition (which I have done previously).

(2) I am then going to boot the Athlon machine off the Win95 floppy after I disable (set to NONE) the IDE drives.

(3) I will then format the primary partition (which will be the C drive) and copy the system files.

(4) I will reboot the machine to the Win95 floppy and see if I still have a C drive. If there is no accessible C drive, then this machine is acting exactly like the P90, the problem is within Windows 95 and the test is over.

(5) If I can see/read the C drive, I will make the C partition active.

(6) I will then boot off the SCSI drive. If I get a successful boot, then the problem lies with the BIOS of the P90 motherboard (as Stone believes).

The problem seems to be down to disk size. The 32gb drives are giving me no problems at all. The 72gb drives are causing issues. Could this be something related to a 64gb limit? Hopefully my test tomorrow will give me more clues.

Thanks...Joe

Stone
February 8th, 2017, 07:50 PM
The problem seems to be down to disk size. The 32gb drives are giving me no problems at all. The 72gb drives are causing issues. Could this be something related to a 64gb limit? Hopefully my test tomorrow will give me more clues.There is no 64 GB limit, only a 32 GB limit.

Again, EZ-BIOS could be causing the problem. If so, you can transfer everything from the IDE drive to the SCSI drive and dump the IDE.

Ideally, one, large IDE would solve all your problems.

Less is more..

KISS...

Grandcheapskate
February 9th, 2017, 11:46 AM
There is no 64 GB limit, only a 32 GB limit.

Again, EZ-BIOS could be causing the problem. If so, you can transfer everything from the IDE drive to the SCSI drive and dump the IDE.

Ideally, one, large IDE would solve all your problems.

Less is more..

KISS...

Yes, a large IDE would solve my problems...but that is the point. I cannot put a large IDE drive on the P90.

I have tested without EZ-BIOS on the P90 and the results are the same. The test was done with only a floppy drive and the SCSI drive connected. I have proven conclusively that EZ-BIOS is not the problem.

As to another point you raised earlier, the reason I started this whole process was so I could use SCSI drives to break through IDE limits on selected older machines by replacing and or supplementing the IDE drives.. The machines with BIOS limits are usually 486s and Pentiums. And on these machines I would be running either DOS, Win95 or Win98. Any machine capable of running WinXP should be able to accept large IDE drives.

Joe

Stone
February 9th, 2017, 12:13 PM
Two ~ 30 GB IDE drives won't suffice?

How about four ~ 30 GB IDEs?

You can probably get away with a 128 GB drive.

Agent Orange
February 9th, 2017, 12:45 PM
Joe,

I know you're dead set on using W95, but why not take a little time off and load XP on one your IDE's just to see what goes down. I have an Intel 815 with a PIII Tulie running XP at 1.4 GB, and while it won't win any races, it's a fairly decent setup. Can even get on-line and browse a little without my coffee getting cold. Also, why not give an all SCSI setup a try?

Tom

lutiana
February 9th, 2017, 01:41 PM
Joe,

I know you're dead set on using W95, but why not take a little time off and load XP on one your IDE's just to see what goes down. I have an Intel 815 with a PIII Tulie running XP at 1.4 GB, and while it won't win any races, it's a fairly decent setup. Can even get on-line and browse a little without my coffee getting cold. Also, why not give an all SCSI setup a try?

Tom

I second this. Just unplug the IDE drive, then install a new OS on the SCSI drive and try it out. Worst case is you end up plugging the IDE drive back in and formatting the SCSI drive again. XP is a great option, but Windows 98SE might also be a pretty good option if you want to maintain that Windows 95 look and feel.

Chuck(G)
February 9th, 2017, 02:27 PM
It all depends on what you want to do. You're not going to run ImageDisk on XP, for example.

Agent Orange
February 9th, 2017, 03:38 PM
It all depends on what you want to do. You're not going to run ImageDisk on XP, for example.

Maybe not, but you could dual boot the thing.

Grandcheapskate
February 9th, 2017, 03:47 PM
Hi Guys,
Here's the thing...when I use the 32gb SCSI drive on the P90, I don't have an issue at all. I can leave the IDE drive in place or remove the IDE drive. In fact, I have successfully copied the entire primary partition of the IDE drive to the 32gb drive, removed the IDE drive and booted from the SCSI drive. No problem at all with drive letters and when the machine booted off the 32gb SCSI drive, it looked and acted exactly as if I had booted off the IDE drive. All the programs worked (all programs are contained on the C drive). So I could increase the P90 storage using the 32gb SCSI drive.

The issue I am trying to figure out is why I am having problems with the 72gb drive. Is it a Win95 (and Win98SE?) issue or an issue with the motherboard? Since the P90 is in a mini-tower, there is really no room inside for a second hard drive, which is why I would like to get a 72gb in there rather than a 32gb.

This is simply a problem I would like to solve. I would like to understand why I am hitting some kind of "limit" when using the 72gb drive and why the machine acts so different depending on whether the SCSI drives are formatted or not.

Thanks...Joe

Stone
February 9th, 2017, 04:51 PM
Simple... put the board in a BIGGER case. :-)

Or use STACKER.

lutiana
February 9th, 2017, 05:09 PM
Hi Guys,
Here's the thing...when I use the 32gb SCSI drive on the P90, I don't have an issue at all. I can leave the IDE drive in place or remove the IDE drive. In fact, I have successfully copied the entire primary partition of the IDE drive to the 32gb drive, removed the IDE drive and booted from the SCSI drive. No problem at all with drive letters and when the machine booted off the 32gb SCSI drive, it looked and acted exactly as if I had booted off the IDE drive. All the programs worked (all programs are contained on the C drive). So I could increase the P90 storage using the 32gb SCSI drive.

The issue I am trying to figure out is why I am having problems with the 72gb drive. Is it a Win95 (and Win98SE?) issue or an issue with the motherboard? Since the P90 is in a mini-tower, there is really no room inside for a second hard drive, which is why I would like to get a 72gb in there rather than a 32gb.

This is simply a problem I would like to solve. I would like to understand why I am hitting some kind of "limit" when using the 72gb drive and why the machine acts so different depending on whether the SCSI drives are formatted or not.

Thanks...Joe

So I am confused, I get that with the 72Gb drive in Windows 95 you get that odd behavior of the primary partition suddenly becoming the last drive letter available and some sort of phantom D:, but it other than this it does work and you can see all the space, am I correct here? But what exactly happens when you boot to a floppy? I don't think you have been clear on this one.

Have you tried partitioning and formatting with a third party tool like partition magic on the P90 - http://vetusware.com/download/Partition%20Magic%207.0/?id=7321 ? And have you tried doing just one big FAT32 partition?

I still strongly think that the issue is a Windows 95 one. And that you need to try and work out where that phantom D: is coming from, and potentially removing the drivers for the HDD (not the SCSI controller) and letting windows re-install it.

Grandcheapskate
February 10th, 2017, 08:26 AM
So I am confused, I get that with the 72Gb drive in Windows 95 you get that odd behavior of the primary partition suddenly becoming the last drive letter available and some sort of phantom D:, but it other than this it does work and you can see all the space, am I correct here? But what exactly happens when you boot to a floppy? I don't think you have been clear on this one.

Have you tried partitioning and formatting with a third party tool like partition magic on the P90 - http://vetusware.com/download/Partition%20Magic%207.0/?id=7321 ? And have you tried doing just one big FAT32 partition?

I still strongly think that the issue is a Windows 95 one. And that you need to try and work out where that phantom D: is coming from, and potentially removing the drivers for the HDD (not the SCSI controller) and letting windows re-install it.

As far as my limited testing showed, once the primary partition on the 72gb drive was formatted and the Win95 system rebooted, the primary partition on the 72gb drive was accessible as the last drive letter in the system. The partition was formatted when it was the D drive and showed up as the S drive after the reboot. I only did a simple DIR command to confirm the S drive was accessible. FDISK still shows the partition as the D drive even after the reboot.

When I boot to a Win95 floppy, the exact same thing occurs. I have tried it with and without the IDE drive present. The SCSI partition is formatted as either C or D (depending upon whether or not the IDE is present), the system rebooted and that drive letter (whether C or D) is inaccessible. I cannot remember whether the drive was accessible as another letter when booting from the floppy.

I want to stay away from third party tools and also eliminate the need to use EZ-BIOS. Even if I wanted to continue to use IDE drives and EZ-BIOS, the motherboard hangs if I connect any IDE drive with a capacity somewhere between 20gb and 40gb. Plus, I have never been able to find documentation on the largest drive EZ-BIOS can handle.

Today I am going to run a test where I do EXACTLY the same thing to both the 36.4gb (as shown on the label) and 72.8gb (as shown on the label) drives. I will then note the differences.

1. Partition each drive on the Athlon under WinXP with a 9gb primary partition and an extended partition for the remainder of the drive. I will create as many logical drives of less than 20gb until I use up the entire extended partition. I will not format the primary partition or logical drives.

2. One at a time, take each drive and hook it into the Win95 machine. All IDE drives (HDs and CDs) will be marked as "NONE". Boot up using a Win95 floppy drive. Check FDISK to see if I have a primary C partition and x number of logical drives.

3. Format the C partition using the command FORMAT C: /U /S

4. Do a DIR C: to insure the system files were copied.

5. Reboot the Win95 machine from the floppy.

6. Do a DIR C:. If found, things are good. If not found, then the C drive disappeared after being formatted and the system rebooted. If this happens only to the 72gb drive, then there is something happening on the 72gb drive which is not happening on the 36gb drive. Now the question becomes - is it Win95 or the P90 motherboard BIOS.

I can also try this test using a Win98SE boot disk to see if the results are the same.

I can also try this test on the Athlon machine with both Win95 and Win98SE.

After all this is done, maybe a conclusion can be reached. Doing the same thing with both drives and getting different results will hopefully yield some answers.


Just a side note:

Yesterday, when I attempted to boot the Athlon with a Win98SE (and Win95) boot disk and the 72gb drive connected, I got the following message and the boot process stopped:

WARNING: Logical drives past Z exist and will be ignored

I have no idea why this is occurring as the highest drive letter assigned is H which includes all the logical drives on the SCSI drive.

Thanks...Joe

Stone
February 10th, 2017, 09:03 AM
Just a side note:

Yesterday, when I attempted to boot the Athlon with a Win98SE (and Win95) boot disk and the 72gb drive connected, I got the following message and the boot process stopped:

WARNING: Logical drives past Z exist and will be ignored

I have no idea why this is occurring as the highest drive letter assigned is H which includes all the logical drives on the SCSI drive.Maybe the partition table is hosed. Getting rid of it and starting from zero might be worth a try. Something like DBAN would surely remove all traces of everything on the drive and that includes the partition table.

krebizfan
February 10th, 2017, 09:32 AM
Maybe the partition table is hosed. Getting rid of it and starting from zero might be worth a try. Something like DBAN would surely remove all traces of everything on the drive and that includes the partition table.

If the drive is working fine on a non-Windows 95 system, it almost certainly is not a partition table issue.

lutiana
February 10th, 2017, 09:54 AM
First thing I'd recommend is to have as few partitions/logical drives as possible, and for testing I'd even go so far as to say partition the drives as a single primary FAT32 volume with 100% of it's space. This will simplify your trouble shooting.

Also, do you have a second 72Gb drive to try out in this config?

And I don't think I understand the the desire to stay away from third party tools. FDISK is a functional tool at best, but Partition Magic is like FDISK on steroids. It'll do everything you need it to do in one fell swoop, as well as things like resize partitions and move them around on the disk. Makes life quite a bit easier if you ask me, and it will also tell you immediately if there is an issue with the partition table, which like Stone, is what I am suspecting is your issue here. And yes, I agree that getting away from EZ-BIOS is a good idea.

So after you partition it, then move it to Windows 95 all the drives look right, but then you format it and that is when the drives jump locations and things go weird. This definitely seems to indicate that your problem lies in the formatting, perhaps the format command is screwing up the partition table or something like that.

Do yourself a favor, grab Partition Magic, plug in the 72Gb SCSI drive and boot to Partition Magic. Use it to blow away any and all partitions on the drive (apple this), then create a singe 72Gb primary partition and format it with PMagic as FAT32. Then boot Windows 95 and see what happens. Worst case is you have lost maybe 30 minutes. Best case is you'd have a nice shiney new 72Gb D: to use.

Also Partition magic, booted on The Win95 machine with the 72Gb drive installed should give you a much clearer picture of the drive assignments, and just looking at that may give you a solid clue about what is going in.

Stone
February 10th, 2017, 10:42 AM
If the drive is working fine on a non-Windows 95 system, it almost certainly is not a partition table issue.Exactly... :-)

Grandcheapskate
February 10th, 2017, 06:36 PM
Hi Guys,
I will review your comments a little later, but I have to post this update.

I took the 36gb drive and created a 10gb primary partition and a 24gb extended partition with two logical 12gb drives. I put it into the P90 machine, removed the IDE drive, booted with a Win95 floppy and was successful in formatting the 10gb drive as the C drive. I also put the system files on the C drive. Everything looked good.

I rebooted using the boot disk and the C drive was gone, no where to be found on the P90. When I rebooted off the IDE drive, the SCSI primary partition again showed up as the S drive and I had a "phantom" D drive.

Just for curiosity I hooked the SCSI drive back into the Athlon machine, booted to WinXP and the partition was there and so were the W95 system files.

Then a thought hit me. What if the problem is because the primary partition is greater than the 8gb limit? It shouldn't be an issue, but then again, not much is making sense here. And if it is an 8gb issue, that points directly to the motherboard BIOS...which I don't understand

So I repartitioned the 36gb drive as a 5gb primary and two 15gb drives in the extended partition. I then did the same format process on the P90 and this time the C drive remains intact when I reboot.

I need more time to flush this out, but right now it looks like an issue related to the size of the primary partition.

More to come.

Thanks...Joe

Caluser2000
February 10th, 2017, 07:28 PM
Personally I think you've done enough mucking around. You're just going around in circles.

Stone
February 10th, 2017, 07:44 PM
So I repartitioned the 36gb drive as a 5gb primary and two 15gb drives in the extended partition. I then did the same format process on the P90 and this time the C drive remains intact when I reboot.But what about the drives in the extended partition? Do they both function and retain their names properly?

Grandcheapskate
February 11th, 2017, 06:34 PM
But what about the drives in the extended partition? Do they both function and retain their names properly?

That is a great question and one I will answer when I get time to work on the problem.

Just important to note that besides having the apparent AWARD BIOS 32/33gb issue, the P90 motherboard will not support an IDE drive greater than 8gb without using EZ-BIOS. Connecting a 40gb or larger IDE drive hangs the boot process, so I have to keep the IDE capacity under 32/33gb.

Joe

HoJoPo
February 11th, 2017, 06:53 PM
How about using a PCI EIDE 100 or 133 controller? It would have its own BIOS, and some of them had Windows 95 compatibility drivers available.

SomeGuy
February 11th, 2017, 07:12 PM
How about using a PCI EIDE 100 or 133 controller? It would have its own BIOS, and some of them had Windows 95 compatibility drivers available.
I had already suggested a Via 6421 based SATA PCI card - those work very well with Windows 95 and smash all the BIOS limits (also most include an IDE port. Just gotta watch out to get one with a BIOS chip). That's what I would do. One could use it as a the single boot device, or leave a smaller drive on the motherboard IDE for compatibility with older/oddball protected mode OSes.

Grandcheapskate
February 12th, 2017, 09:44 AM
How about using a PCI EIDE 100 or 133 controller? It would have its own BIOS, and some of them had Windows 95 compatibility drivers available.


I had already suggested a Via 6421 based SATA PCI card - those work very well with Windows 95 and smash all the BIOS limits (also most include an IDE port. Just gotta watch out to get one with a BIOS chip). That's what I would do. One could use it as a the single boot device, or leave a smaller drive on the motherboard IDE for compatibility with older/oddball protected mode OSes.

I agree going with an IDE card with it's own BIOS is smart. If I had to do it over again, maybe that would be the better solution. However, I started down the SCSI route and would now like to figure out why I am having these issues. It is as much for the knowledge as for the work-ability.

Thanks...Joe