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dieymir
February 19th, 2017, 01:29 AM
Finally I will give my 286 a proper house. This one:

36317

I'm trying to identify the homeless in this thread: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?56330-Identify-this-286-board

The specs:
* 286@12Mhz NMOS Intel processor
* 2MB of RAM (1MB in 80ns DIPs and another one in 256KB 70ns SIMMs). An AMD CMOS 287@10Mhz
* SUNTAC chipset. AFAIK this chipset can work in EMS or Extended memory memory but you cannot have both types of memory. I've configured mine in EMS mode which IMHO it's much more useful on a 286.
* Acer M5105 super I/O chip. It has a 2 COM ports, 1 LPT, 1 floppy and 1 IDE.

These are the cards:
36318

For the OSs I intend to multiboot PC DOS, MS-DOS 3.30 and an DR DOS 3.40 or older if I can find it

I intend to show my progress with this build, get new ideas and ask questions in this thread.

Thanks a lot to everybody

Malvineous
February 20th, 2017, 04:52 AM
You probably want at least some Extended memory, because that supplies the HMA (so you can load DOS high and get more conventional memory free) and HIMEM.SYS provides XMS services from Extended memory as well, which I think is more widely used than EMS.

The two 286 boards I have tested that have hardware EMS all allow you to specify the amount of memory to dedicate to EMS, leaving the rest as Extended. I typically only allocate a small amount (say 384kB) because the only use of it I know of is Monster Bash for sound effects. I think every other game I play that needs a lot of memory supports XMS. Bear in mind that you have to load a driver in CONFIG.SYS before the emulated EMS will work - the driver translates EMS API calls from programs into chipset register writes to make the hardware EMS actually work. Without the driver the system will think you have no EMS. If you can find an EMS driver that works with your board's chipset, that might give you some more information to help identify it.

1MB SIMMs seem plentiful on eBay (at least here in Australia) so you could always upgrade it to 4MB total RAM too.

Xacalite
February 20th, 2017, 12:48 PM
DOS 3.30 has partition size limit of 32 MB, and if you're going to use an IDE drive, it's likely to be much bigger.
DR DOS 3.40 should be OK, though.
You can also try Compaq DOS 3.31, if you don't want any modern DOS.

dieymir
February 24th, 2017, 10:29 AM
You probably want at least some Extended memory, because that supplies the HMA (so you can load DOS high and get more conventional memory free) and HIMEM.SYS provides XMS services from Extended memory as well, which I think is more widely used than EMS.

The two 286 boards I have tested that have hardware EMS all allow you to specify the amount of memory to dedicate to EMS, leaving the rest as Extended. I typically only allocate a small amount (say 384kB) because the only use of it I know of is Monster Bash for sound effects. I think every other game I play that needs a lot of memory supports XMS. Bear in mind that you have to load a driver in CONFIG.SYS before the emulated EMS will work - the driver translates EMS API calls from programs into chipset register writes to make the hardware EMS actually work. Without the driver the system will think you have no EMS. If you can find an EMS driver that works with your board's chipset, that might give you some more information to help identify it.

1MB SIMMs seem plentiful on eBay (at least here in Australia) so you could always upgrade it to 4MB total RAM too.

Unfortunately this is not the case with this chipset. It's all or nothing. I do not intend to use any dos version higher that 3.3x so it's not a big problem. I have the EMS driver, in fact I'm using QRAM to get 32KB of UMBs using EMS 4.0. As a bonus QRAM provides memory through XMS API so I'm loading 4DOS high too. With all these tricks I was able to get 590KB of memory free (cache, mouse driver, 4DOS, keybsp and DOS resources loaded high). I intend to post my CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT for your reference.

dieymir
February 24th, 2017, 10:33 AM
DOS 3.30 has partition size limit of 32 MB, and if you're going to use an IDE drive, it's likely to be much bigger.
DR DOS 3.40 should be OK, though.
You can also try Compaq DOS 3.31, if you don't want any modern DOS.
No problem with that. I have a Seagate ST3120A (106MB) drive but, unfortunately, it has lot of bad sectors :( so I'm looking for a replacement not bigger than 130MB. I'm also looking for DR DOS versions older than 3.4x to keep everything in the 3.3x range ;) but seems that it'll be easier to find a hen with teeth.

EMDarrow
February 24th, 2017, 10:57 AM
I'm also looking for DR DOS versions older than 3.4x to keep everything in the 3.3x range ;) but seems that it'll be easier to find a hen with teeth.

Near as I can tell this is the copy of DR-DOS 3.31 thats been floating around the net for a while (exact same file size posted in several different sources). Not 100% its accurate, but check it out.

36505

Stone
February 24th, 2017, 11:14 AM
...so I'm looking for a replacement not bigger than 130MB...I have a Seagate ST3096A 80 MB drive if that's of interest.

Caluser2000
February 24th, 2017, 01:45 PM
I think I've got DRDos 3.35 disks somewhere.

dieymir
February 25th, 2017, 01:15 AM
I think I've got DRDos 3.35 disks somewhere.

Wow!! I've been looking for it for years. Could you share it?

dieymir
February 25th, 2017, 01:16 AM
Near as I can tell this is the copy of DR-DOS 3.31 thats been floating around the net for a while (exact same file size posted in several different sources). Not 100% its accurate, but check it out.

36505

I know about it. Unfortunately this copy is corrupt and does not boot. Seems that those kernel files were uploaded to the Caldera FTP site in ASCII mode :(

dieymir
February 25th, 2017, 01:18 AM
I have a Seagate ST3096A 80 MB drive if that's of interest.
Yes, it could be of interest. I'm still looking for locally, though

dieymir
February 25th, 2017, 01:11 PM
As promised here are the contents of the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files



C:\>TYPE CONFIG.SYS
DEVICE=D:\DRIVERS\MMP16ABO\DRIVERS\EEPROM.SYS /88BC0001
DEVICE=D:\DRIVERS\SUNTAC.SYS /R:0 /R:1 /R:B
DEVICE=C:\QRAM\QRAM.SYS R:1 NOSH
BUFFERS=1
FILES=8
FCBS=1,0
LASTDRIVE=D
STACKS=0,0
COUNTRY=034,437,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
SHELL=C:\4DOS\4DOS.COM C:\4DOS /P



C:\>TYPE AUTOEXEC.BAT
@ECHO OFF
C:\QRAM\LOADHI /R:1 C:\QRAM\BUFFERS=5
C:\QRAM\LOADHI /R:1 C:\QRAM\FILES=20
C:\QRAM\LOADHI /R:1 C:\QRAM\FCBS=4
C:\QRAM\LOADHI /R:1 C:\QRAM\LASTDRIV=Z
SET GALAXY=A220 I5 D1 K10 P530 T6
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
SET SOUND=D:\DRIVERS\MMP16ABO
SET PROMPT=$P$G
SET TEMP=C:\DOS\TMP
SET TMP=%TEMP%
SET PATH=C:\4DOS;D:\UTIL;D:\NU;D:\PCTOOLS;C:\DOS;
C:\QRAM\LOADHI /R:1 C:\EMMCACHE\EMC110.COM 40
C:\QRAM\LOADHI /R:1 C:\DOS\KEYB SP,437,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
D:\DRIVERS\MMP16ABO\UTILITY\VOLSET /V:14 /X:14 /F:14 /C:14 /L:14 /M:0 /R:M
D:\DRIVERS\MMP16ABO\UTILITY\AZCAL
VER

dieymir
March 2nd, 2017, 05:40 AM
I do not have much time those days so progress is slow. Here are some performance results

NI 4.5 SI:
36684

and Landmark v6.0 (I'm sorry for the quality of this I took the photo with my mobile phone and the CRT flickering is very obvious):
36685

as you can see the VGA Landmark figures are dismal. Not sure about the CPU ones Are those figures OK for a 12Mhz 286 with 0 WS and a 10Mhz FPU?

Soon I'll upload more photos of the assembled system (I'm still cleaing the case front bezel) and ask some questions.

dieymir
March 3rd, 2017, 10:33 AM
Is this intended for a speaker?

36696

it has a diameter of 2.5cm. (1") Is this supposed to be a standard size? I was looking in my parts bin and did not find any speaker that fits (too small or too large).

Stone
March 3rd, 2017, 11:01 AM
While it looks like a standard speaker bracket the diameter of the PC/XT speaker is 7/8" or ~ 2.3cm.

krebizfan
March 3rd, 2017, 11:51 AM
I have seen some smaller piezoelectric speakers that were about 1" in diameter with a tab that matches the slot which might perfectly fit in that space.

Chuck(G)
March 3rd, 2017, 12:59 PM
I've got one or two "large magnet" small speakers. They weren't that uncommon. Worst case, you can use a standard speaker and slip a length of vinyl tubing over the magnet to make it bigger.

Casey
March 3rd, 2017, 02:27 PM
winworldpc has DR DOS 3.4 & 3.41 in 360k disk images, if anyone wants to download them.

dieymir
March 4th, 2017, 01:37 PM
While it looks like a standard speaker bracket the diameter of the PC/XT speaker is 7/8" or ~ 2.3cm.
I didn't know that. Only 2mm ... I'll measure it again more carefully (with a better tool) and see.

Stone
March 4th, 2017, 01:47 PM
I just took a more precise measurement:

inside diameter = 21.5 mm

outside diameter = 24.5 mm

Actually, it's only the ID that matters.

Caluser2000
March 4th, 2017, 02:26 PM
For the OSs I intend to multiboot PC DOS, MS-DOS 3.30 and an DR DOS 3.40 or older if I can find it


With 2megs of ram I would of thought MSDos 5/6.* or DrDos 5/6 would maker better use of it.

flashedbios2012
March 4th, 2017, 02:44 PM
MS-DOS 6.22 has Himem.sys

Stone
March 4th, 2017, 02:54 PM
MS-DOS 6.22 has Himem.sysAs do MS-DOS 5 and DOS 6.xx. :-)

flashedbios2012
March 4th, 2017, 03:18 PM
Just not DOS 4. From reading I've done, DOS 4 was the Windows ME of DOS

AlexC
March 4th, 2017, 03:57 PM
If you have a way of measuring disk performance, do some tests with and without 4DOS. I've found it slows down disk performance significantly on older machines and only really comes into its own on a 486 or later. I do like its features, but they come with an overhead.

Stone
March 4th, 2017, 04:27 PM
Just not DOS 4.Nor DOS 3, DOS 2, or DOS 1. But, since it wasn't introduced until DOS 5 why would it even need mentioning?

dieymir
March 5th, 2017, 11:08 AM
OK I see the point and, If I only have this computer, I would do just that but I have all this:

three 486 running MS-DOS 6.x PC DOS 6.x & 7.0, Novell/DR DOS 7.0x, FreeDOS and even ROM-DOS
two 386dx running MS-DOS 5.0, PC DOS 5.0 & 5.02 and DR DOS 6.0 (both 04/92 and 03/93 updates)
and one 386sx running MS-DOS 3.31 & 4.01, IBM DOS 4.01 and DR DOS 3.41 & 5.0 - this one still does not have a proper case. It will be my next project.

and that's why I intend to run PC/MS 3.30 and DR DOS 3.3x on this 286 computer. I want to have every DOS version available running on hardware of its era.

dieymir
March 5th, 2017, 11:23 AM
Nor DOS 3, DOS 2, or DOS 1. But, since it wasn't introduced until DOS 5 why would it even need mentioning?
Well MS-DOS 4 does have HIMEM.SYS version 2.04 included. It was of no use for DOS itself, though, so I suppose it was a courtesy to the (few) guys using Windows 2.1x/286 at that time.

Stone
March 5th, 2017, 12:10 PM
Well MS-DOS 4 does have HIMEM.SYS version 2.04 included. It was of no use for DOS itself, though, so I suppose it was a courtesy to the (few) guys using Windows 2.1x/286 at that time.I have a boxed IBM DOS 4 and there's no himem.sys.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36777&d=1488747940

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36778&d=1488747990

36777 36778

flashedbios2012
March 5th, 2017, 12:31 PM
Are those 720k disks? I don't see the CH symbol or the extra cutout that 1.44mb disks usually have. also that is ibm dos. ibm dos was a little different than MS dos.

krebizfan
March 5th, 2017, 12:45 PM
IBM DOS 4 shipped on DD (720kB) disks to match the lower PS/2 systems.

MS-DOS 4.01 shipped on 6 360kB 5.25" disks. Disk 4 of the set has HIMEM.SYS.

Stone
March 5th, 2017, 12:51 PM
Yes, 720k disks.

dieymir
March 12th, 2017, 08:56 AM
I just took a more precise measurement:

inside diameter = 21.5 mm

outside diameter = 24.5 mm

Actually, it's only the ID that matters.

I've measured it again and I got 22mm (I cannot be more precise) for the ID. so it seems that a PC/XT speaker fits.

Does anyone happend to have one of these?

Stone
March 12th, 2017, 09:12 AM
Yes, I have some PC/XT speakers.

dieymir
March 20th, 2017, 09:20 AM
Yes, I have some PC/XT speakers.
It seems you have a couple of very interestring things.

Stone
March 20th, 2017, 09:22 AM
Actually I have much more than a couple. I have lots of very interesting things. :-)

dieymir
March 20th, 2017, 09:27 AM
I keep doing slow progress with this. Now I have it networked using one of those cheap Realtek 8019 isa cards:

37128

I've installed a NFS client (XFS) to connect to the same Debian server and the Netware Client to connect to my Netware 4.12 server (a Pentium MMX) but I did not have time to test this last one.

dieymir
March 20th, 2017, 10:15 AM
Originally, I intended to use Ranish partition Manager to multiboot between PC/MS-DOS 3.3 and DR DOS 3.xx as I do with some of my retro systems (I use System Monitor - sysmon - too) but, since I'll use a small harddisk, I do not want to make more parts than needed so I want to have only 2 parts (one system and one extended) to save space. As you can imagine this isn't an easy task. Fortunately PC Magazine comes to the rescue:

https://books.google.es/books?id=LIpQYrLA2GIC&pg=PT372&dq=pc+magazine+mboot&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_6KjWzuXSAhUHAcAKHRTTDzAQ6AEIHDAC#v=on epage&q=pc%20magazine%20mboot&f=false

I'm really amazed with the variety and quality of those old utils. Most of them are really impressive, MBOOT is one of those. Unfortunately pre 5.0 DR DOS system files (DRBIOS.SYS and DRBDOS.SYS) are not recognized ... but source code is included so I brushed up it and found out that add such support was an easy task. The utility suports chain load to the OS/2 boot sector (boot.os2) and allow it to do its magic. I do not intend to use OS/2 so it was trivial to modify the code to make it load the DR DOS boot sector instead. Unlike PC/MS-DOS the DR DOS boot sector can load the system files without regarding their position on the fat/disk.

Since I do not want to play with my real system I did the experiments with PCem (another impressive piece of sotware). I got the boot sector from my 286 real installation, assembled the modified code and modified the boot sector BPB with an hex editor. Here are the results:

371313712937130

I finally added Concurrent DOS XM to the mix as you can see.

dieymir
March 20th, 2017, 10:32 AM
Actually I have much more than a couple. I have lots of very interesting things. :-)
I'm sure :D but now I only interested on that speaker and that Seagate HD. I'll send you a PM soon.