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Grandcheapskate
March 20th, 2017, 04:02 PM
I just recently picked up Shrak, which is an expansion for Quake 1. It is a game which requires a Pentium, DOS 5.0 and 8mb of memory. The machine I am trying to use is running DOS 6.20, 64mb of memory and using a Cyrix running at 120MHz. It runs Quake just fine.

I am having problems installing the software as I am getting page fault errors due to "insufficient memory". Has anyone else installed this game? Is there a DOS utility which checks the validity of the memory in the machine?

Even though the install gives me errors I can still run the game, although all I get is the view of my weapon and most of the rest of the screen is white.

Thanks...Joe

Agent Orange
March 20th, 2017, 05:09 PM
I just recently picked up Shrak, which is an expansion for Quake 1. It is a game which requires a Pentium, DOS 5.0 and 8mb of memory. The machine I am trying to use is running DOS 6.20, 64mb of memory and using a Cyrix running at 120MHz. It runs Quake just fine.

I am having problems installing the software as I am getting page fault errors due to "insufficient memory". Has anyone else installed this game? Is there a DOS utility which checks the validity of the memory in the machine?

Even though the install gives me errors I can still run the game, although all I get is the view of my weapon and most of the rest of the screen is white.

Thanks...Joe

Don't know. But, try it all on different machine. Don't rule out the possibility of a corrupt file or two in the add-on.

Grandcheapskate
March 21st, 2017, 08:56 AM
Don't know. But, try it all on different machine. Don't rule out the possibility of a corrupt file or two in the add-on.

Just to clarify...this is not a download but the original CD of Shrak. That hopefully reduces the possibility of a corrupt file. But I will load it on another DOS machine and see what happens. I'll try basic Quake first and then try to install Shrak.

As to the error I am getting during the install, here is the basic text:

A PAGE FAULT HAS OCCURRED DUE TO INSUFFICIENT MEMORY
absolute address=1006F000 DGROUP relative address=0006F000
error code=0006

Then it shows all the register contents.

Is there anything in this message which give me a clue as to exactly what issue is occurring? The error occurs twice with the same text in both cases. It seems the install is executing the same program twice in what seems to be an attempt to unpack two different files. Once the first error occurs, the install continues and the second error gets generated.

But the install never aborts, it seems to go to completion. But if I execute the program, I get (basically) a white screen with a few graphics. I can move around and even shoot, but there's a lot missing from the screen.

Thanks...Joe

GottaLottaStuff
March 22nd, 2017, 09:37 AM
Why load it on another DOS machine? Quake runs fine under Windows if you use WinQuake, and as a DOS game it's portable. Just copy the subdirectory from one PC to another. Install Quake and Shrak on some modern hardware and then copy it to the DOS machine.

Agent Orange
March 22nd, 2017, 11:14 AM
Joe, don't rule out bad media. Last year, while building out the A7N8X-E Deluxe, I ran into a situation with a Doom 3 file that wouldn't unpack:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50255-ASUS-A7N8X-E-Deluxe/page6&highlight=A7N8X-E+Deluxe

If SHRAK installs on another machine, then you know for sure that you have some compatibility issues. Also, you may want to do a memory check even though it appears to running okay.

lutiana
March 22nd, 2017, 11:52 AM
I

Even though the install gives me errors I can still run the game, although all I get is the view of my weapon and most of the rest of the screen is white.

Thanks...Joe

So according to this dude (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMWxQ6tU8vw) the textures have to manually re-added to the game. He mentions it in the first few minutes of the video.

Stone
March 22nd, 2017, 12:05 PM
Is there a DOS utility which checks the validity of the memory in the machine?Memtest86+

Grandcheapskate
March 22nd, 2017, 06:10 PM
Why load it on another DOS machine? Quake runs fine under Windows if you use WinQuake, and as a DOS game it's portable. Just copy the subdirectory from one PC to another. Install Quake and Shrak on some modern hardware and then copy it to the DOS machine.

Exactly what I will do...a simple copy of base Quake to another machine and then try installing Shrak. Another consideration is whether I am having an issue because the machine has a Cyrix rather than Intel processor.


Joe, don't rule out bad media. Last year, while building out the A7N8X-E Deluxe, I ran into a situation with a Doom 3 file that wouldn't unpack:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50255-ASUS-A7N8X-E-Deluxe/page6&highlight=A7N8X-E+Deluxe

If SHRAK installs on another machine, then you know for sure that you have some compatibility issues. Also, you may want to do a memory check even though it appears to running okay.

A memory check will be the first thing I do. I was going to just swap out the four 16mb memory sticks but because of the shape of the case, I have to remove the motherboard in order to get at one of the memory modules. So I'll do a memory check first.


So according to this dude (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMWxQ6tU8vw) the textures have to manually re-added to the game. He mentions it in the first few minutes of the video.

Interesting. My knowledge of the inner workings of these games is very limited. But I did hear him mention there is some program on the Shrak CD which is supposed to copy whatever is needed from the ID files. I'll have to check it out.


Memtest86+

Thank you. I'll be running this when time permits.

Joe

Grandcheapskate
March 23rd, 2017, 07:33 PM
Memtest86+

Well, I downloaded Memtest86+ and created the bootable floppy disk. I then tried to boot the Cyrix machine off the floppy. As the machine starts to read the floppy, I get the message I am supposed to get:

LOADING.............

But then the machine reboots and the cycle starts over again. The machine will continue to reboot and I never see the Memtest screen. If I allow the machine to boot normally off the hard disk there are no problems.

Any ideas?

Thanks...Joe

AlexC
March 23rd, 2017, 08:00 PM
Well, I downloaded Memtest86+ and created the bootable floppy disk. I then tried to boot the Cyrix machine off the floppy. As the machine starts to read the floppy, I get the message I am supposed to get:

LOADING.............

But then the machine reboots and the cycle starts over again. The machine will continue to reboot and I never see the Memtest screen. If I allow the machine to boot normally off the hard disk there are no problems.

Any ideas?

Thanks...Joe

I've seen similar behaviour with memtest, but on a 486. Never did track down the cause. Briefly saw "Press F1 for failsafe mode..." then around it went again, whether I pressed F1 or not.

Is it possible the game is dying due to too much RAM? Perhaps it's doing a check and running out of space for the response, as 8MB to 64MB is a big jump. Maybe you could try with 16MB in there.

Stone
March 24th, 2017, 02:56 AM
Well, I downloaded Memtest86+ and created the bootable floppy disk. I then tried to boot the Cyrix machine off the floppy. As the machine starts to read the floppy, I get the message I am supposed to get:

LOADING.............

But then the machine reboots and the cycle starts over again. The machine will continue to reboot and I never see the Memtest screen. If I allow the machine to boot normally off the hard disk there are no problems.

Any ideas?

Thanks...JoeDid you try that disk in another machine to determine that it's not the disk itself?


Is it possible the game is dying due to too much RAM?That's ludicrous. :-)

Grandcheapskate
March 25th, 2017, 12:07 PM
I've seen similar behaviour with memtest, but on a 486. Never did track down the cause. Briefly saw "Press F1 for failsafe mode..." then around it went again, whether I pressed F1 or not.

I got the same response when I tried Memtest86 on an AMD DX/4 133.


Did you try that disk in another machine to determine that it's not the disk itself?

I tried the disk in three different machines:

Cyrix 6x6: Memtest starts to load and then the system reboots. The blue Memtest screen may flash for the shortest instant.

AMD DX/4: Memtest starts to load and then the system reboots. The blue Memtest screen shows for a little longer but way less than a second.

Intel Pentium 90: Memtest worked fine.

Anyone run Memtest86+ v5.01 successfully on a non-Intel processor?

Thanks...Joe

Stone
March 25th, 2017, 12:49 PM
Anyone run Memtest86+ v5.01 successfully on a non-Intel processor?I've run it on a Cyrix 233 MMX and an AMD dual core.

I've got an older version if you want it. I think it's 3.01.

Grandcheapskate
March 25th, 2017, 07:08 PM
I've run it on a Cyrix 233 MMX and an AMD dual core.

I've got an older version if you want it. I think it's 3.01.

I just downloaded some earlier versions. The earliest is 2.0, a few other 2.x and some 4.x versions. There were no 3.x versions. I will try to find the time to create floppy disks for a couple different versions and see what happens. If you want to send your version to me, attach it to a private message and I can try that version as well.

Meanwhile I still need to install Quake on a machine with an Intel Pentium so I can test the original issue of this thread.

Thanks...Joe

AlexC
March 25th, 2017, 07:34 PM
That's ludicrous. :-)

Not as much as it sounds. I've hit barriers at 16MB, 32MB and 64MB with various games and applications. 64MB can be an issue with some HIMEM.SYS versions and RAM drives, for example.

If a game/application isn't programmed with the future in mind, memory checks can easily run out of digits. It's no accident that DOSBox defaults to a 16MB emulated machine. Some games don't like finding more.

bocke
March 28th, 2017, 06:09 AM
Not as much as it sounds. I've hit barriers at 16MB, 32MB and 64MB with various games and applications. 64MB can be an issue with some HIMEM.SYS versions and RAM drives, for example.

If a game/application isn't programmed with the future in mind, memory checks can easily run out of digits. It's no accident that DOSBox defaults to a 16MB emulated machine. Some games don't like finding more.

If that is the case, most XMS memory managers have the option to limit the available memory. I don't know if any support dynamic resizing. The op might try checking out himemx (https://sourceforge.net/projects/himemx/) or jemm (https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/jemm.html).

Edit
On the general note, I remember seeing the claims himemx and jemm might support 2GB or more ram. So, it should work fine with older machines with less than 1GB.

Grandcheapskate
April 16th, 2017, 02:17 PM
Looks like I found the answer.

All my DOS machines can boot up in several different configurations. Unless there is a compelling reason not to use QEMM, I boot up my DOS machines using QEMM (v7.5) for memory management. I decided to try booting this Cyrix machine using an alternate path, one which uses the DOS 6.2 HIMEM program instead of QEMM.

And Shrak installed without a problem. So it seems there is some conflict between QEMM and the installation process of Shrak. I haven't tested the game after I reboot under QEMM, but I don't see why it would not work.

Thanks for the help.

Joe

Stone
April 16th, 2017, 02:38 PM
Looks like I found the answer.

All my DOS machines can boot up in several different configurations. Unless there is a compelling reason not to use QEMM, I boot up my DOS machines using QEMM (v7.5) for memory management. I decided to try booting this Cyrix machine using an alternate path, one which uses the DOS 6.2 HIMEM program instead of QEMM.

And Shrak installed without a problem. So it seems there is some conflict between QEMM and the installation process of Shrak. I haven't tested the game after I reboot under QEMM, but I don't see why it would not work.

Thanks for the help.

JoeFWIW, I stopped using QEMM when HIMEM.SYS became the norm -- some 25 years ago. I saw no reason to continue using it and I still don't.

I'm not a believer in using something just because I happen to have it but rather only use it when it's required.

KISS :-) :-)

AlexC
April 16th, 2017, 03:36 PM
Well done on tracking down the issue.


FWIW, I stopped using QEMM when HIMEM.SYS became the norm -- some 25 years ago. I saw no reason to continue using it and I still don't.

I'm not a believer in using something just because I happen to have it but rather only use it when it's required.

KISS :-) :-)

That's a reasonable approach. I don't boot with any EMS/UMB manager unless something specifically requires it. But I've found QEMM to be better than EMM386, and 386MAX to be better than both. By *better* I mean faster operations once the CPU is in protected mode.

Of the two main non-DOS commercial options, QEMM squeezes out slightly more RAM but I've found 386MAX to be more reliable and less prone to glitches such as the one the OP has discovered.

Edit to add: Just re-read my notes. QEMM was (slightly) faster than 386MAX in protected mode and also found more RAM. 386MAX was more reliable. YMMV of course.

Grandcheapskate
April 17th, 2017, 10:51 AM
I also have two later versions of QEMM which I have never tested - QEMM 8.0 and QEMM 97.

After successfully testing the install of Shrak, I attempted to install it for real. I then found another issue with the install. It seems the install has an issue if the Quake directory is not just one level down from the root directory. My Quake files were in GAMES\QUAKE\QUAKE1 and Shrak ran into issues. When I moved the Quake files to a QUAKE directory (one level from the root) it worked fine.

I also tested the game briefly after rebooting to QEMM and moving the Quake files back into my real directory (GAMES, etc.) and I don't seem to have any issues.

Thanks...Joe

Stone
April 17th, 2017, 10:58 AM
I also have two later versions of QEMM which I have never tested - QEMM 8.0 and QEMM 97.Well, WTF are you waiting for! After all, it's not fine wine -- it doesn't get better with age. :-) :-) :-)

Grandcheapskate
April 18th, 2017, 06:21 AM
Well, WTF are you waiting for! After all, it's not fine wine -- it doesn't get better with age. :-) :-) :-)

It's the old adage..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Unless and until I load a new DOS machine, there's no reason to update my existing machines. Plus, most times when I load a new DOS machine, I copy a lot of stuff from an existing DOS machine or an "install" CD...and that includes DOS and the QEMM software (along with a vanilla install of Windows 3.1).

Joe

Grandcheapskate
May 13th, 2017, 04:00 PM
As long as I have a Shrak thread, let me ask this question.

There is one point in the game where I need to make a jump. It's not a hard jump, but I cannot make it - I always come up short.

What I am wondering is...could this be at all related to the CPU (Cyrix 686) I am using? Is it possible the CPU could make a difference as how a game behaves in a situation like this?

I am trying to join a Quake forum, but it's taking forever to get activated.

Thanks...Joe

Stone
May 13th, 2017, 06:05 PM
As long as I have a Shrak thread, let me ask this question.

There is one point in the game where I need to make a jump. It's not a hard jump, but I cannot make it - I always come up short.

What I am wondering is...could this be at all related to the CPU (Cyrix 686) I am using? Is it possible the CPU could make a difference as how a game behaves in a situation like this?Stop trying to blame the equipment!

This shortcoming is strictly based on your ability... or lack thereof.

Grandcheapskate
May 25th, 2017, 09:15 AM
I got the answer to my question on a Quake forum. It is described in this article which I don't understand completely but I get the general meaning..

http://archive.is/jaHRy

It seems Quake is sensitive to the processor as a faster processor will allow you to run faster and jump higher.

Joe

Stone
May 25th, 2017, 09:34 AM
That's not how I read it.

It's based on FPS which is configurable in the game.

Grandcheapskate
May 25th, 2017, 12:33 PM
That's not how I read it.

It's based on FPS which is configurable in the game.

You can set resolution, but not frame rate. After all, why would you ever set the frame set to less than the maximum?

GottaLottaStuff
May 26th, 2017, 02:36 AM
Frame rate is adjustable, a quick Google leads to:
https://www.gog.com/forum/quake_series/unlock_framerate_in_quake_1
Now you need to see how it's done in Shrak. Most games have an upper limit to the frame rate to take some of the load off the video card. 60 or 72 fps is common. Usually adjusted by editing a .ini file.

Grandcheapskate
May 27th, 2017, 01:15 PM
Frame rate is adjustable, a quick Google leads to:
https://www.gog.com/forum/quake_series/unlock_framerate_in_quake_1
Now you need to see how it's done in Shrak. Most games have an upper limit to the frame rate to take some of the load off the video card. 60 or 72 fps is common. Usually adjusted by editing a .ini file.

Thanks for that link. On the Quake forum, I need to ask how to adjust the frame rate. There's a lot I need to learn about Quake; setting up or changing variables is just one of them. I tried putting cl-maxfps into the CFG file but I got an "unknown command" message.

Thanks...Joe

Grandcheapskate
May 31st, 2017, 12:24 PM
I got the problem resolved thanks to the guys over on the Quakeone forum. Seems I needed to turn down the gravity setting so I could make that one jump...and maybe other places where the Cyrix just isn't fast enough.

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-help/general-help/13665-processor-question.html

acheter
July 15th, 2017, 12:48 AM
I got the same response when I tried Memtest86 on an AMD DX/4 133.