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fjk61011
April 12th, 2017, 07:29 AM
IBM PC 5150 and Parallel Port Backpack Floppy Drive.

Using DOS 3.? the Floppy Drive is recognized and assigned C drive letter.

However when changing to C: the system hangs at a flashing _

Only way to reboot is a hard power one.

Any pointers to fixing this? Would it be a memory issue?

Chuck(G)
April 12th, 2017, 08:25 AM
I doubt that it's a timing issue. What version of the driver are you using? It could well be that later versions make use of 286+ instructions.

Have you tried it with a V20 in the CPU socket?

lyonadmiral
April 12th, 2017, 08:31 AM
IBM PC 5150 and Parallel Port Backpack Floppy Drive.

Using DOS 3.? the Floppy Drive is recognized and assigned C drive letter.

However when changing to C: the system hangs at a flashing _

Only way to reboot is a hard power one.

Any pointers to fixing this? Would it be a memory issue?

I would ask these questions:

1. What version of the floppy is it; 3.5 or 5.25, although that may be irrelevant...
2. What verison of the driver are you using as well?

I have a 5150 with a 5161 with 2 hard disks, the variable that comes to my mind, is it because there is no hard disk in your system, even though by original design there wasn't one...

krebizfan
April 12th, 2017, 08:52 AM
Specific model number for the floppy can matter since the last versions of the drivers dropped support for early drives.

If your version of drivers includes TESTPORT.EXE, that may identify a problem with the parallel port. Parallel ports set to address of 03BCh have issues with Backpacks.

There is also a command line switch to force the backpack to use slower modes of early parallel ports but glancing at the documentation I have, I can't find it.

fjk61011
April 12th, 2017, 08:53 AM
I doubt that it's a timing issue. What version of the driver are you using? It could well be that later versions make use of 286+ instructions.

Have you tried it with a V20 in the CPU socket?

I'll check the driver version later.

I don't have a V20.


EDIT: Not at PC at the moment but date of file is 1997

fjk61011
April 12th, 2017, 08:54 AM
I would ask these questions:

1. What version of the floppy is it; 3.5 or 5.25, although that may be irrelevant...
2. What verison of the driver are you using as well?

I have a 5150 with a 5161 with 2 hard disks, the variable that comes to my mind, is it because there is no hard disk in your system, even though by original design there wasn't one...

3.5 floppy. will check driver later.

fjk61011
April 12th, 2017, 08:56 AM
Specific model number for the floppy can matter since the last versions of the drivers dropped support for early drives.

If your version of drivers includes TESTPORT.EXE, that may identify a problem with the parallel port. Parallel ports set to address of 03BCh have issues with Backpacks.

There is also a command line switch to force the backpack to use slower modes of early parallel ports but glancing at the documentation I have, I can't find it.

I have testport somewhere. I'll check the address

Chuck(G)
April 12th, 2017, 10:38 AM
The backpack drives use (at a minimum) a simple nibble-oriented transfer protocol. And, AFAIK, the basic protocol hasn't changed since the first ones (in metal cases) came out. But the driver code has changed over the years. I'll see if I can find an old driver in my stash.

(FWIW, some years ago, I posted the complete source for the Backpack floppy interface that implemented the basic set of INT 13H functions. You should still be able to find it; the file hasn't gone away)

Chuck(G)
April 12th, 2017, 11:40 AM
Okay, here you go, BP drivers V 2.12, from about 1993-94. Still has the question "Do you boot from hard disk in BACKPREP.COM".

Let me know how it goes. It works on my XT clone.

fjk61011
April 12th, 2017, 01:08 PM
Okay, here you go, BP drivers V 2.12, from about 1993-94. Still has the question "Do you boot from hard disk in BACKPREP.COM".

Let me know how it goes. It works on my XT clone.

Will do.

fjk61011
April 12th, 2017, 02:57 PM
Okay, here you go, BP drivers V 2.12, from about 1993-94. Still has the question "Do you boot from hard disk in BACKPREP.COM".

Let me know how it goes. It works on my XT clone.

OK, I made a system disk 3.5 on my PS/1 and installed BACKPREP onto it. I then transferred the files to a 5.25 system disk. I'll try that on the 5150 tomorrow.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 04:14 AM
Ok, tried the 5.25 floppy and it recognised the Backpack and assigned it drive C. Changing to C gave the flashing _ and after awhile the Abort, Retry, Fail error.

I ran TestPort:


TestPort (011022) Copyright (C) Micro Solutions Inc., DeKalb IL. 1994-2001
Engineering's Parallel Port Diagnostic Wizard Utility.

************************************************** ***************************

LPT = 03BC, E0 E0 00 00 07
Unidirectional
Chipset : Winbond W83787IF
Mode : Unidirectional

************************************************** ***************************

LPT = 0378, C0 00 FF 00 06
Bidirectional
ECR Detected, 75 00 00 C0 00 C0 00 C0 00 ECP
Chipset : Acme
Mode : ECP

************************************************** ***************************


The MDA card has a parallel port which must be the winbond.

The new card must be the ACME.


Looking for a 720k floppy to test again.

Malc
April 13th, 2017, 04:34 AM
What's the model number of your Backpack floppy drive ?, Modem7 has a copy of the 2.12 driver [ Here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/floppy_diskette/option_4.htm) ], I have a couple of 014350 Backpack floppy drives and on one of them it say's ' Series 5 driver ' and the other one doesn't, I have 2 versions of the driver disc's 2.12 and 2.13

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 05:29 AM
What's the model number of your Backpack floppy drive ?, Modem7 has a copy of the 2.12 driver [ Here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150/floppy_diskette/option_4.htm) ], I have a couple of 014350 Backpack floppy drives and on one of them it say's ' Series 5 driver ' and the other one doesn't, I have 2 versions of the driver disc's 2.12 and 2.13

014350 and Series 5 driver.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 05:33 AM
When the system recognises the backpack drive, changing to C: gives a "seek time error".

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 05:52 AM
http://arvutimuuseum.ee/th99/v/S-T/54002.htm

My MDA card is similar to this. The missing triangle is still there but has no components or tracks. The jumpers are in the same position and I think I've disabled the parallel port.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 05:57 AM
Specific model number for the floppy can matter since the last versions of the drivers dropped support for early drives.

If your version of drivers includes TESTPORT.EXE, that may identify a problem with the parallel port. Parallel ports set to address of 03BCh have issues with Backpacks.

There is also a command line switch to force the backpack to use slower modes of early parallel ports but glancing at the documentation I have, I can't find it.

Did you by any chance find the documentation with the command line switch?

Malc
April 13th, 2017, 06:12 AM
Try v2.13 if you want, I have put it [ Here (http://www.mb1.co.uk/temp/BackPack_Floppy_v2.13.zip) ], I will set my 5150 up later if you don't get any luck.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 07:35 AM
Try v2.13 if you want, I have put it [ Here (http://www.mb1.co.uk/temp/BackPack_Floppy_v2.13.zip) ], I will set my 5150 up later if you don't get any luck.

Tried that no luck.

krebizfan
April 13th, 2017, 08:09 AM
Did you by any chance find the documentation with the command line switch?

I found two switches that may apply to lockups. I don't know if either would resolve your issues.

DELAY=6 The recommended command line is DEVICE=\\BACKPACK.SYS DELAY=6

The CDROM and Tape drivers include a NOEPP switch. You may want to try if that is also available to the floppy drivers.

I just noticed that the Winbond Parallel Port is set to 3BCh which is listed by Microsolutions as a problematic address. See https://web-beta.archive.org/web/19980214115905/http://www2.micro-solutions.com:80/tech_support/issues/205any.html
Since your system has 2 parallel ports and the Acme is Bi-directional, can you swap the two ports so that Acme is LPT1: and has Backpack while Winbond gets LPT2: and is used for whatever tasks you need a second port for?

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 08:20 AM
I found two switches that may apply to lockups. I don't know if either would resolve your issues.

DELAY=6 The recommended command line is DEVICE=\\BACKPACK.SYS DELAY=6

The CDROM and Tape drivers include a NOEPP switch. You may want to try if that is also available to the floppy drivers.

I just noticed that the Winbond Parallel Port is set to 3BCh which is listed by Microsolutions as a problematic address. See https://web-beta.archive.org/web/19980214115905/http://www2.micro-solutions.com:80/tech_support/issues/205any.html
Since your system has 2 parallel ports and the Acme is Bi-directional, can you swap the two ports so that Acme is LPT1: and has Backpack while Winbond gets LPT2: and is used for whatever tasks you need a second port for?

Okily dokily. I disabled the Winbond with the jumpers on the MDA card. With testport the Acme now shows as unidirectional.

I'll try the delay=6 switch

Chuck(G)
April 13th, 2017, 08:35 AM
Well, now it's stupid question time.

1. What are you using for a cable? Check to see that you're using a "straight-through" cable and not a Laplink/Interlink cable or serial cable. You want a "straight through", all 25 lines.
2. You're not battling a Slot 8 issue, are you?

I can probably think of some more, but these are the obvious ones.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 08:43 AM
Tried the Delay=6 and no luck although the flashing "_" to the error message was much shorter.

NOEPP was not recognised.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 08:48 AM
Well, now it's stupid question time.

1. What are you using for a cable? Check to see that you're using a "straight-through" cable and not a Laplink/Interlink cable or serial cable. You want a "straight through", all 25 lines.
2. You're not battling a Slot 8 issue, are you?

I can probably think of some more, but these are the obvious ones.

The cable was the one supplied with the Drive. Works on my PS/1.

It's a 5150, only 5 slots. What's the Slot 8 issue?

Feel free to fire away with the stupid questions.

krebizfan
April 13th, 2017, 08:55 AM
Do you have a newer system that can take the Backpack? At this point, I think verifying that the drive works is necessary and trying the drive with an EPP equipped 486 or Pentium would remove a lot of variables.

Edit: Okay, I see you just updated that it does work with the PS/1.

Malc
April 13th, 2017, 09:49 AM
...It's a 5150, only 5 slots. What's the Slot 8 issue?

Slot 8 issue apply's to the XT 5160, Only certain cards work in slot 8.

How much memory have you got in this 5150 ?

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 10:14 AM
Slot 8 issue apply's to the XT 5160, Only certain cards work in slot 8.

How much memory have you got in this 5150 ?

I have 256Kb on the motherboard and another 256kb on a SixPackPlus. Two floppy drives. Using DOS 6.22 on a floppy.

Chuck(G)
April 13th, 2017, 10:16 AM
I forgot that you were using a 5150, sorry. It's just that the 5160 "Slot 8" problem raises its ugly head frequently.

Just for yucks, what happens if you execute SETID? Does it see the drive?

Have you tried both parallel ports? Some vendors' parallel ports were a bit "brain dead" in that they dummied up some status lines, which would cause the BP driver to fail.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 11:32 AM
I forgot that you were using a 5150, sorry. It's just that the 5160 "Slot 8" problem raises its ugly head frequently.

Just for yucks, what happens if you execute SETID? Does it see the drive?

Have you tried both parallel ports? Some vendors' parallel ports were a bit "brain dead" in that they dummied up some status lines, which would cause the BP driver to fail.

SETID sees the Backpack and asks for an ID from 0 to 99. I tried 0 and 99. No luck. However changing to the C: drive was successful and running DIR got as far No volume label on disk.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 11:49 AM
I forgot that you were using a 5150, sorry. It's just that the 5160 "Slot 8" problem raises its ugly head frequently.

Just for yucks, what happens if you execute SETID? Does it see the drive?

Have you tried both parallel ports? Some vendors' parallel ports were a bit "brain dead" in that they dummied up some status lines, which would cause the BP driver to fail.

I have a Hercules? MDA card with a parallel port (which I don't remember buying). I tried this and it worked. Whoop. Next is to remove DELAY=6 from the CONFIG.SYS and see what happens.

Chuck(G)
April 13th, 2017, 12:27 PM
Well, there you go. BTW, you can change not only the ID of the Backpack drive, but also the drive type: SETID /DRIVETYPE should get you a configuration display. An undocumented feature.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 12:55 PM
Well, there you go. BTW, you can change not only the ID of the Backpack drive, but also the drive type: SETID /DRIVETYPE should get you a configuration display. An undocumented feature.

Will try that tomorrow.

fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 01:57 PM
Well, there you go. BTW, you can change not only the ID of the Backpack drive, but also the drive type: SETID /DRIVETYPE should get you a configuration display. An undocumented feature.

What is the significance of the ID?

Chuck(G)
April 13th, 2017, 04:31 PM
Not much, unless you have several of these things hooked to the same parallel port (yes, you can do that!). Then it's a way to tell them apart.

fjk61011
April 14th, 2017, 03:26 AM
Not much, unless you have several of these things hooked to the same parallel port (yes, you can do that!). Then it's a way to tell them apart.

Right. Next challenge is to see if i can get the backpack cd rom working

modem7
April 14th, 2017, 02:20 PM
Right. Next challenge is to see if i can get the backpack cd rom working
Note that to get it working together with the 3.5" backpack drive, like my combination pictured at [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images2/external_drives.jpg)], changing the ID is not required.
Refer to the earlier thread at [here (http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?51366-Daisy-Chaining-Backpack-Devices)].

fjk61011
April 14th, 2017, 02:49 PM
Note that to get it working together with the 3.5" backpack drive, like my combination pictured at [here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images2/external_drives.jpg)], changing the ID is not required.
Refer to the earlier thread at [here (http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?51366-Daisy-Chaining-Backpack-Devices)].

I'll try that next week. Easter has put a stop to geeking for now.

modem7
April 14th, 2017, 02:57 PM
I'll try that next week. Easter has put a stop to geeking for now.
Just tell family and friends that a little known fact is that the Easter bunny's favourite hobby is vintage computers.

fjk61011
April 14th, 2017, 04:16 PM
Just tell family and friends that a little known fact is that the Easter bunny's favourite hobby is vintage computers.

I like your thinking

fjk61011
April 18th, 2017, 10:01 AM
Have not got around to the cdrom yet. Easter eggs on nom nom

fjk61011
April 19th, 2017, 06:45 AM
I've also managed to get a 1.44 floppy drive working in the 5150. Had to try several drives. Used driver.sys as detailed in minuszerodegrees.

fjk61011
April 20th, 2017, 01:23 PM
And I think I have the ASTsixpackplus clock working.

fjk61011
April 24th, 2017, 06:13 AM
Daisy chained the Backpack CDROM and installed the software. Loadcd.bat loads the drivers and shows the CDROM and gives it a Drive letter. However it won't read CDs.

krebizfan
April 24th, 2017, 06:23 AM
Are you trying pressed CDs or CD-Rs? From what I remember, a lot of the Backpack CD Drives were manufactured before the CD-R standard was finished so they won't read CD-Rs.

Try cleaning the CD drive as well. Otherwise, you may have to swap the drive with a different IDE CD drive. Lasers do fail.

fjk61011
April 24th, 2017, 06:37 AM
Are you trying pressed CDs or CD-Rs? From what I remember, a lot of the Backpack CD Drives were manufactured before the CD-R standard was finished so they won't read CD-Rs.

Try cleaning the CD drive as well. Otherwise, you may have to swap the drive with a different IDE CD drive. Lasers do fail.

CD-Rs

Chuck(G)
April 24th, 2017, 07:11 AM
Yeah, old CD drives can be pretty dicey with newer CD-R stock. I've got a couple that don't see the MAM-A gold ones, for example. Which is a shame, because those were the "premium" type. The drive does fine with cheapie CD-Rs.

So try a different drive.

fjk61011
April 24th, 2017, 07:21 AM
Yeah, old CD drives can be pretty dicey with newer CD-R stock. I've got a couple that don't see the MAM-A gold ones, for example. Which is a shame, because those were the "premium" type. The drive does fine with cheapie CD-Rs.

So try a different drive.

Will try that.

modem7
April 24th, 2017, 03:22 PM
And not multi-session CDs.

To gain some confidence, you can try an audio CD per the following procedure:

1. Insert an audio CD into the Backpack drive. ('Proper' audio CD, not something with WAV or MP3 files on it.)
2. Onto your computer, place the DOS program TRKPLAY.EXE. You will find TRKPLAY.EXE in the 2.06 version driver set at [here (http://minuszerodegrees.net/backpack_cdrom/backpack_cdrom.htm)].
3. Type in: trkplay all
4. The access light on the Backpack drive will turn on. Plug headphones into the headphone jack on the front of the Backpack drive - expect to hear music. You may need to adjust the volume control on the front of the drive.

fjk61011
April 25th, 2017, 05:41 AM
And not multi-session CDs.

To gain some confidence, you can try an audio CD per the following procedure:

1. Insert an audio CD into the Backpack drive. ('Proper' audio CD, not something with WAV or MP3 files on it.)
2. Onto your computer, place the DOS program TRKPLAY.EXE. You will find TRKPLAY.EXE in the 2.06 version driver set at [here (http://minuszerodegrees.net/backpack_cdrom/backpack_cdrom.htm)].
3. Type in: trkplay all
4. The access light on the Backpack drive will turn on. Plug headphones into the headphone jack on the front of the Backpack drive - expect to hear music. You may need to adjust the volume control on the front of the drive.

Yes, that works.

EDIT: Also a game CD loads.

fjk61011
April 26th, 2017, 04:24 AM
Yes, that works.

EDIT: Also a game CD loads.

I've moved the Backpack CDrom to a parallel card on my second 5150 and it is detected and give a drive letter. No luck with a CD-R disc.

Malc
April 26th, 2017, 05:16 AM
It's been a long time since i used my Backpack CDrom but IIRC mine wouldn't read CD-R disc's either since i got it new.

fjk61011
April 26th, 2017, 06:15 AM
Yeah, old CD drives can be pretty dicey with newer CD-R stock. I've got a couple that don't see the MAM-A gold ones, for example. Which is a shame, because those were the "premium" type. The drive does fine with cheapie CD-Rs.

So try a different drive.

I swapped out the Mitsumi Drive x8 and put in a Creative (x2?). The Backpack reads CD-Rs now.

I put the Matsumi in my 486 and it reads CD-Rs now.