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fjk61011
April 13th, 2017, 02:17 PM
I'm looking to set up a network card in my 5150. I seen inexpensive cards with bnc connectors. Is there a way to adapt these to an rj 45?

modem7
April 13th, 2017, 02:28 PM
I'm looking to set up a network card in my 5150. I seen inexpensive cards with bnc connectors. Is there a way to adapt these to an rj 45?
Try the following Internet searches:
10base2 to 10baseT converter
bnc to rj45 ethernet converter

glitch
April 13th, 2017, 05:25 PM
I like the Allied Telesis/Allied Telesyn AT-MC15. It has built-in switchable termination, so you don't need a T connector for its end. Here's one for a good price:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/132152236096

The other cheap option is to get a card with AUI (15-pin D sub connector) and use an AUI transceiver on it. That's how most of my old machines are set up, though I do have a small thinnet (BNC) segment.

Chuck(G)
April 13th, 2017, 07:22 PM
Another option, particularly if you've got a bunch of 10BaseT gear, is to use a network hub with both 10BaseT and 10Base2 connections.

Unknown_K
April 13th, 2017, 09:39 PM
I would find an old hub that had RJ45 and BNC and use it as a crossover.

fjk61011
April 14th, 2017, 04:52 AM
Another option, particularly if you've got a bunch of 10BaseT gear, is to use a network hub with both 10BaseT and 10Base2 connections.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ETHERNET-AUI-TRANSCEIVER-10BaseT-RJ45-210TS-Cisco-2501-2509-2511-/301437292098?hash=item462f100e42

Is this the type of unit you are talking about?

Also will an Etherlink III work in an 8-bit slot?

kgober
April 14th, 2017, 07:39 AM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ETHERNET-AUI-TRANSCEIVER-10BaseT-RJ45-210TS-Cisco-2501-2509-2511-/301437292098?hash=item462f100e42

Is this the type of unit you are talking about?

This is a tranceiver, if you have an Ethernet card with a 15-pin AUI connector you can use this to connect the AUI port to a 10baseT network.

A hub with both 10baseT and 10base2 connections would look like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Com-Office-Connect-8-Port-Hub-TPC-Model-3C16701-Powers-On-/281210082920?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

(no affiliation with seller, only chose that link because it has a clear picture of the ports).

-ken

fjk61011
May 3rd, 2017, 04:36 AM
I'm waiting on a NIC with an AUI port and also a transceiver. I'll report back when I'm set up.

Xacalite
May 3rd, 2017, 05:03 AM
Also will an Etherlink III work in an 8-bit slot?
Looks like my answer is late, but yes, it should work:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?52478-3Com-3C509B-TPO-in-an-IBM-XT-5160-with-V20

Stone
May 3rd, 2017, 05:09 AM
Another option, particularly if you've got a bunch of 10BaseT gear, is to use a network hub with both 10BaseT and 10Base2 connections.


I would find an old hub that had RJ45 and BNC and use it as a crossover.What about using a NIC with both both of these connections? Is there any way to interface these two network protocols via the NIC?

Xacalite
May 3rd, 2017, 05:31 AM
What about using a NIC with both both of these connections? Is there any way to interface these two network protocols via the NIC?
Not at the same time.
You need to select which transceiver you want to use, with jumpers, or with software.

You can, however, install two NICs, one with RJ45 connector, the other with BNC, and set up a bridge between them, equivalent to 2-port ethernet hub/switch.

Stone
May 3rd, 2017, 05:55 AM
You can, however, install two NICs, one with RJ45 connector, the other with BNC, and set up a bridge between them, equivalent to 2-port ethernet hub/switch.How would that be done?

fjk61011
May 3rd, 2017, 06:29 AM
What about using a NIC with both both of these connections? Is there any way to interface these two network protocols via the NIC?

I wasn't able to find a Hub/Switch/Router with a RJ45 and AUI or BNC connector. At least not an inexpensive one.

Waiting on a NIC with a AUI port and the transceiver (from the slow boat from China). It amazes me how inexpensive things from China are and free postage. Back of a lorry job?

Xacalite
May 3rd, 2017, 06:51 AM
How would that be done?
It depends on the operating system, eg. in Linux:

ifconfig eth0 0.0.0.0
ifconfig eth1 0.0.0.0
brctl addbr mybridge
brctl addif mybridge eth0
brctl addif mybridge eth1
ifconfig mybridge up

More info: https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/networking/bridge

Stone
May 3rd, 2017, 07:46 AM
I don't use Linux, Unix, etc.

glitch
May 3rd, 2017, 08:44 AM
I don't use Linux, Unix, etc.

Better off with a hardware solution, then.

Chuck(G)
May 3rd, 2017, 08:48 AM
Dunno what platform Stone is comfortable with, but one need only do a web search for "network bridging windows" to get some information on the technique for the Microsoft products.

fjk61011
May 3rd, 2017, 10:25 AM
I've seen a Hub with an AUi port reasonably priced. However AUI cables on ebay are very expensive with shipping to Ireland.

MikeS
May 3rd, 2017, 11:17 AM
What am I missing here? Hubs, AUI, bridges, etc.; isn't this just a simple balun like this one for $5.00 shipped?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Nice-G-703-Balun-75ohm-BNC-to-120ohm-RJ45-Ethernet-Adapter-Efficient-and-fast-/361598360129?hash=item5430f11a41:g:BVUAAOSwjXRXYSO 9

Uniballer
May 3rd, 2017, 12:08 PM
What am I missing here? Hubs, AUI, bridges, etc.; isn't this just a simple balun like this one for $5.00 shipped?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Nice-G-703-Balun-75ohm-BNC-to-120ohm-RJ45-Ethernet-Adapter-Efficient-and-fast-/361598360129?hash=item5430f11a41:g:BVUAAOSwjXRXYSO 9

How can that work for ethernet? It is rated for 2 Mbps (not 10). No 10baseT link pulses. Splits the signal to separate BNC connectors for transmit and receive, so I guess it can't handle or report collisions. How would you even hook up the 10base2 side?

fjk61011
May 3rd, 2017, 12:53 PM
What I have (in the attic):

A 5150, waiting on an 8-bit NIC with an AUI and BNC port.

A 486 with an NIC with an RJ45 port.

One CAT5 cable from downstairs.

I'm going to need a new hub/switch anyway to connect the two computers to the LAN. I've seen a hub with an AUI port and 8? RJ45 ports. I'll probably go with that and an AUI cable to connect the 5150 to the hub, or an AUI - RJ45 transceiver to connect to the hub.

Caluser2000
May 3rd, 2017, 12:59 PM
As mentioned earlier a hub with bnc and rj45 connections is a way to go. I had this setup a while back with no issues.

Chuck(G)
May 3rd, 2017, 01:02 PM
I find all of this interesting in the light of a 5150--network cards were rare and expensive for PCs in that timeframe--and it wasn't generally needed, as many systems were floppy-based. Even after the 5160, what you saw a lot of was thinnet (10base2) and ARCnet. There were also a few "cheap network" devices using serial or parallel ports. Heck, NICs on home computers during much of the 1990s were rare. I still have a couple of DMMC HomeFree (http://www.speedguide.net/reviews/diamond-homefree-98) cards.

Not disparaging anyone, just pointing out that networking was not at all common when these systems were around.

Caluser2000
May 3rd, 2017, 01:09 PM
GeoWorks 2.0 up had serial connectivity with null-modem cable with another system running Geoworks 2.0 or up.

fjk61011
May 3rd, 2017, 01:16 PM
I find all of this interesting in the light of a 5150--network cards were rare and expensive for PCs in that timeframe--and it wasn't generally needed, as many systems were floppy-based. Even after the 5160, what you saw a lot of was thinnet (10base2) and ARCnet. There were also a few "cheap network" devices using serial or parallel ports. Heck, NICs on home computers during much of the 1990s were rare. I still have a couple of DMMC HomeFree (http://www.speedguide.net/reviews/diamond-homefree-98) cards.

Not disparaging anyone, just pointing out that networking was not at all common when these systems were around.

I'm mostly doing this out of curiosity.

Caluser2000
May 3rd, 2017, 01:21 PM
Once you've got it sorted you can try the mTCP suite of programs and use ircjr to visit #vc on slashnet and say hi :)

fjk61011
May 3rd, 2017, 01:31 PM
Once you've got it sorted you can try the mTCP suite of programs and use ircjr to visit #vc on slashnet and say hi :)

Using mtcp at the moment. Havn't used ircjr yet.

Stone
May 3rd, 2017, 01:32 PM
There were also a few "cheap network" devices using serial or parallel ports. Heck, NICs on home computers during much of the 1990s were rare.There are a few good ways to connect any two computers via parallel ports, parallel being much faster that serial, anyway. No NIC or hub is necessary.

ibmapc
May 3rd, 2017, 01:40 PM
Why bother with 8 bit NIC? A lot of the 16 bit NICs will work in an 8 bit slot. I Like the Intel Ether Express cards. They work fine in an 8 bit slot and they come up on Ebay form time to time pretty reasonably priced and packet drivers and other software is readily available.

Caluser2000
May 3rd, 2017, 01:43 PM
Using mtcp at the moment. Havn't used ircjr yet.I use it on my 286. That in itself is a good enough reason to network an older system not to mention the BBBs you can telnet to.

I started off with a 10base2 network sharing a ppp connection with 3 systems.

Chuck(G)
May 3rd, 2017, 01:44 PM
Well, yes--but only sort of. I've got a pile of 16-bit ISA generic NE2000 clones and while they'll work in an 8-bit slot, setup of I/O ports and whatnot has to be done in a 16-bit slot. Heck if I know why.

MikeS
May 3rd, 2017, 01:52 PM
How can that work for ethernet? It is rated for 2 Mbps (not 10). No 10baseT link pulses. Splits the signal to separate BNC connectors for transmit and receive, so I guess it can't handle or report collisions. How would you even hook up the 10base2 side?Looks like I was indeed missing something; there's obviously more involved for network use than just a balun.

I also always used dual-mode hubs for this sort of thing when necessary (want one?) but never thought about what was involved in the transition; still have many unpleasant memories about installing and maintaining coax networks back in the pre-UTP days...

Chuck(G)
May 3rd, 2017, 02:54 PM
Aw, c'mon, Mike. 10Base2 was just like cheap Christmas tree light strings--when one bulb goes bad, they all go out--then you have the chore of finding the bad one. Simple--but frustrating. :) Then there was 10Base5, vampire taps...

MikeS
May 3rd, 2017, 04:21 PM
Aw, c'mon, Mike. 10Base2 was just like cheap Christmas tree light strings--when one bulb goes bad, they all go out--then you have the chore of finding the bad one. Simple--but frustrating. :)
Yup, that's exactly what I remember; crawling under desks, putting in those F-F connectors, waiting for reboots, etc. etc.; fun times NOT.

fjk61011
May 4th, 2017, 05:35 AM
Looks like my answer is late, but yes, it should work:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?52478-3Com-3C509B-TPO-in-an-IBM-XT-5160-with-V20

I am going to try this now.

lowen
May 4th, 2017, 07:00 AM
When I worked for a large manufacturer back in 1991, we used 3Com 3C503 8-bit cards almost exclusively, even in 16-bit systems, and we used the AUI connection to Cabletron multiport repeaters (similar to the MR-9000) that had AUI uplinks to the actual transceiver on the 10Base-5 backbones. 8 male AUI connections; 1 female AUI connection.

I spent many a day installing the NetWare client software on all ages of machine, including one original 5150, a few 5160's, and on up through the Tandy/Grid 386's. Special instant messaging software (FutureSoft's Right Hand Man) installed as a DOS TSR was installed on all machines, and that became a real challenge on some of the workstations, especially the application engineers' AutoCAD workstations and the printing department's PageMaker machine. We ended up installing separate PC's for the RHM application for the engineers, since they really did live in AutoCAD (they even wrote a whole LISP software stack for application engineering) and RHM and AutoCAD 'Did Not Get Along' (TM).

To be suitably retro, you would want the PC to have the NetWare stack and have NetWare 2.2 running on a 386DX-16 with twin 'SFT-II' (System Fault Tolerant level 2) 400MB 5.25 half-height Seagate SCSI drives for the NetWare shared drives. :-)

NetWare worked great, even on the 5150's; these were floppy-based workstations that had boot ROMs on the 3C503 that booted to a NetWare file share instead of having hard disks installed. There were only two 5150's as I recall, but that's been 26 years ago.

Stone
May 4th, 2017, 07:21 AM
To be suitably retro, you would want the PC to have the NetWare stack and have NetWare 2.2 running on a 386DX-16 with twin 'SFT-II' (System Fault Tolerant level 2)How about... SFT Netware 286 Level II v2.0a (http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50423-Novell-SFT-Netware-286-Level-II-v2-0a)?

fjk61011
May 4th, 2017, 07:35 AM
OK Guys, you've lost me.

I used a 16-bit EtherLink III NIC in the 5150 and the method referred by Xacalite. Success.

I used the FTP Server and can access the 5150 from my Windows 10.

And the clock programme.

lowen
May 4th, 2017, 07:37 AM
How about... SFT Netware 286 Level II v2.0a (http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?50423-Novell-SFT-Netware-286-Level-II-v2-0a)?

That's the ticket. How many users?



I used a 16-bit EtherLink III NIC in the 5150 and the method referred by Xacalite. Success.
...

Glad that worked for you, and it's good to know that a patched 3C509 driver that runs pre-186 is available.

Stone
May 4th, 2017, 08:38 AM
That's the ticket. How many users?
I don't remember. Where do I find the answer? Manual? Disk?

Xacalite
May 4th, 2017, 08:54 AM
If somebody's willing to play with Netware client, note that you don't need to set up a Netware server for that, as there's a Netware server emulation software for Linux - Mars.
However, looks like Mars hasn't been maintained for years, so expect problems running it on current distributions.

Concerning AUI: yes, it's designed to connect an external transceiver to a NIC, but in theory it should also be possible to link two NICs using special crossover AUI cable. Anybody tried it?

fjk61011
May 4th, 2017, 09:28 AM
Using mtcp at the moment. Havn't used ircjr yet.

OK, I've tried IRCjr on my PS/1. Will try the 5150 tomorrow.

lowen
May 4th, 2017, 10:12 AM
I don't remember. Where do I find the answer? Manual? Disk?
Drifting off-topic.... with 2.15 or 2.2 there was a GENDATA disk that had the serial number coded on it and the license information printed on it, but I don't know about 2.0a.

Stone
May 4th, 2017, 11:07 AM
One of the GENOS disks has the serial number but that's it.

fjk61011
May 27th, 2017, 03:52 AM
OK Guys, you've lost me.

I used a 16-bit EtherLink III NIC in the 5150 and the method referred by Xacalite. Success.

I used the FTP Server and can access the 5150 from my Windows 10.

And the clock programme.

Update: I've removed the XT-IDE card and installed a ST-225 Hard Drive.

I then set the EtherLink III on a 486, through DOS 6.22, and used the EtherLink configuring utility. It automatically set it to IRQ 10 and address 300h. I changed the IRQ to 3.

Used Xacalite's hacked driver in the 5150 and everything works.