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fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 05:07 AM
IBM PC 5150.

Tried a Disk on Module disk with a Lo-tech XT-IDE card.

It shows up in the BIOS screen but won't boot from the DOM.

If I boot from the A: drive with DOS 5.00 I can access the DOM.

I copied the files on it to floppies.

I installed DOS 5.00 onto the DOM and the install completed.

However it won't boot from the DOM.

Any ideas?

hargle
August 22nd, 2017, 05:10 AM
try booting from A: and typing fdisk /mbr

I assume you also made your partition active?

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 05:21 AM
try booting from A: and typing fdisk /mbr

I assume you also made your partition active?

Yest partition active.

I'll try the fdisk /mbr and report back

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 05:22 AM
Yest partition active.

I'll try the fdisk /mbr and report back

No luck with that.

alank2
August 22nd, 2017, 05:25 AM
It is a basic question, but when you formatted the DOM, did you format with /s or use the sys command to install the system files to it?

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 05:29 AM
It is a basic question, but when you formatted the DOM, did you format with /s or use the sys command to install the system files to it?

I will try that now. And install DOS 5 again

Stone
August 22nd, 2017, 05:32 AM
I will try that now. And install DOS 5 againThere's no need to 'install' DOS. A simple SYS C: is sufficient to get everything you need for it to boot onto the C drive. COMMAND.COM can be copied manually if need be.

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 05:34 AM
I will try that now. And install DOS 5 again

No luck.

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 05:36 AM
There's no need to 'install' DOS. A simple SYS C: is sufficient to get everything you need for it to boot onto the C drive. COMMAND.COM can be copied manually if need be.

The sys command is on disk 2 and is not expanded.

Formatted with /s. No luck.

I'll copy command.com

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 05:40 AM
The sys command is on disk 2 and is not expanded.

Formatted with /s. No luck.

I'll copy command.com

I get invalid media type on drive C:

Stone
August 22nd, 2017, 05:46 AM
The sys command is on disk 2 and is not expanded.Heheheh... expand it! You're gonna need it.


I get invalid media type on drive C:Time to FDISK.

glitch
August 22nd, 2017, 06:10 AM
Yeah, FDISK and delete all partitions, or use `dd` or WIPEDISK to zero out the first bit of the disk, and then repartition. It's probably a difference in the physical translation between the Lo-Tech board/XUB and the machine I wiped/fdisk'ed the DOM with.

rittwage
August 22nd, 2017, 06:14 AM
That happened to me recently also... it would just not work.

I tried all these things... including playing with CHS options (auto, manual, etc.) I had no luck either. I could format and install, but it would never boot.

I have 128M DOMs and I bought a 32M DOM to see if that would work better, haven't tried it yet.

I think it did work with a CF card and adapter, just not the DOMs, which I thought were supposed to be *more* compatible.

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 06:30 AM
Yeah, FDISK and delete all partitions, or use `dd` or WIPEDISK to zero out the first bit of the disk, and then repartition. It's probably a difference in the physical translation between the Lo-Tech board/XUB and the machine I wiped/fdisk'ed the DOM with.

I don't seem to have the wipedisk that I copied to floppy.

Can you send it to me?

glitch
August 22nd, 2017, 06:38 AM
It's a Lo-tech tool: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/WipeDisk

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 07:18 AM
It's a Lo-tech tool: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/WipeDisk

No luck so far.

Stone
August 22nd, 2017, 07:54 AM
That happened to me recently also... it would just not work. I could format and install, but it would never boot.There *is* a rather simple workaround for any 'C' drive that can't be booted from but otherwise works.

Boot from a floppy and have a line in the AUTOEXEC.BAT file...

SET COMSPEC = C:\COMMAND.COM

Then you can remove the boot floppy and will never need to reinsert it when DOS requires a reload of the transient part of COMMAND.COM as DOS will know to look for COMMAND.COM on the C drive in the root directory. It's as if you had actually booted from drive C and drive A will be free to use as you like at all times.

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 09:14 AM
There *is* a rather simple workaround for any 'C' drive that can't be booted from but otherwise works.

Boot from a floppy and have a line in the AUTOEXEC.BAT file...

SET COMSPEC = C:\COMMAND.COM

Then you can remove the boot floppy and will never need to reinsert it when DOS requires a reload of the transient part of COMMAND.COM as DOS will know to look for COMMAND.COM on the C drive in the root directory. It's as if you had actually booted from drive C and drive A will be free to use as you like at all times.

The C drive isn't accessible at all. It was, on the original DOM from glitch but wasn't bootable.

Great Hierophant
August 22nd, 2017, 09:26 AM
I have had similar bad experiences with two different DOMs and a PCjr. through jrIDE. I never had a problem with a CF card.

KenEG
August 22nd, 2017, 09:56 AM
I have DOMs on my jr-IDE and XT-IDE with no problems. I have heard that some brands work better than others. I have had good luck with Newdisk 512 mb and 1 gb DOMs.

Stone
August 22nd, 2017, 09:56 AM
The C drive isn't accessible at all. It was, on the original DOM from glitch but wasn't bootable.That's the one I was referring to. :-)

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 09:59 AM
I have DOMs on my jr-IDE and XT-IDE with no problems. I have heard that some brands work better than others. I have had good luck with Newdisk 512 mb and 1 gb DOMs.

Would it be a difference between glitch's board and the lo-Tech board?

Stone
August 22nd, 2017, 10:00 AM
I have had good luck with Newdisk 512 mb and 1 gb DOMs.I haven't had any problems with any DOM I've used, a Newdisk 2 GB being one in particular.

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 10:02 AM
That's the one I was referring to. :-)

Too late to test comspec now.

The DOS 5.00 install seems to format the DOM and completes the install process but is not accessible.

Stone
August 22nd, 2017, 10:27 AM
Again, forget the install!

Use a system disk and do everything manually, one step at a time.

glitch
August 22nd, 2017, 11:55 AM
Would it be a difference between glitch's board and the lo-Tech board?

It could be, but it's very unlikely -- it's more likely to be an XT-IDE Universal BIOS incompatibility. What version are you using on the Lo-tech card?

For reference, this is a PQI 128 MB industrial Flash module. Very good IDE compatibility, I don't think I've found anything they wouldn't work with.

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 12:16 PM
It could be, but it's very unlikely -- it's more likely to be an XT-IDE Universal BIOS incompatibility. What version are you using on the Lo-tech card?

For reference, this is a PQI 128 MB industrial Flash module. Very good IDE compatibility, I don't think I've found anything they wouldn't work with.

2.0.0b3+ f4om memory. I managed to format the dom with format /s. I can access c: and dir shows comman.com. however when i reboot i get no system disk or disk error

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 12:17 PM
Bedtime here. I'll check in tomorrow

glitch
August 22nd, 2017, 12:26 PM
Oh, there's your problem, most likely. I've had a fair number of people report really bizarre problems with the 2.0.0b3 -- everything from can't format the disk to formats/boots but randomly corrupts the disk after a seemingly random period of time. Try one of the newer releases of the XUB.

I typically recommend people building their own kits start with XUB v1.1.5 to verify the card actually works, and *then* try a 2.x release if they want 2.x features. I don't think that's an option on the Lo-tech card.

fjk61011
August 22nd, 2017, 12:50 PM
Oh, there's your problem, most likely. I've had a fair number of people report really bizarre problems with the 2.0.0b3 -- everything from can't format the disk to formats/boots but randomly corrupts the disk after a seemingly random period of time. Try one of the newer releases of the XUB.

I typically recommend people building their own kits start with XUB v1.1.5 to verify the card actually works, and *then* try a 2.x release if they want 2.x features. I don't think that's an option on the Lo-tech card.

So can I flash it to 1.5?

glitch
August 22nd, 2017, 04:47 PM
So can I flash it to 1.5?

I don't think you can on the Lo-tech board, but someone with more direct experience with the Lo-tech boards should probably comment on that.

You can run 1.1.5 or the 2.x series on the XT-IDE rev 3 board, or even Hargle's original BIOS, since it retains register level compatibility with the first boards. I believe, but am not 100% certain, that the Lo-tech boards weren't supported in the old 1.1.5 release.

pearce_jj
August 22nd, 2017, 09:26 PM
Correct

pearce_jj
August 22nd, 2017, 09:35 PM
Use the BIOS provided on the wiki for the card in question.

8-bit IDE: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/downloads/XT-IDE/r567-8-bit-ide-adapter.zip

ISA-CompactFlash and all XT-CF: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/downloads/XT-IDE/lo-tech-isa-compactflash-adapter/xtide-r566-xt-cf-master-slave.zip

Problems with these boards are very few and far between. Of course, the DoM must properly implement 8-bit transfer mode for it to work with the ISA-CompactFlash board.

Hope that helps.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 02:13 AM
Use the BIOS provided on the wiki for the card in question.

8-bit IDE: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/downloads/XT-IDE/r567-8-bit-ide-adapter.zip

ISA-CompactFlash and all XT-CF: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/downloads/XT-IDE/lo-tech-isa-compactflash-adapter/xtide-r566-xt-cf-master-slave.zip

Problems with these boards are very few and far between. Of course, the DoM must properly implement 8-bit transfer mode for it to work with the ISA-CompactFlash board.

Hope that helps.

I go0t the DoM from glitch so it should be fine.

I'll try flashing with the IDE BIOS.

pearce_jj
August 23rd, 2017, 02:21 AM
The original XTIDE and its derivatives don't use 8-bit transfer mode.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 02:42 AM
The original XTIDE and its derivatives don't use 8-bit transfer mode.

Not sure of the significance of that.

Flashed with the BIOS you mentioned. It boots to C: now but only outputs about ten lines of garbage.

pearce_jj
August 23rd, 2017, 03:20 AM
I would suggest booting from a floppy then I using my disk test utility with pattern testing to get an idea of data integrity. Some photos of the board (both sides) would help too.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 03:37 AM
I would suggest booting from a floppy then I using my disk test utility with pattern testing to get an idea of data integrity. Some photos of the board (both sides) would help too.

Where would I find the disk test utility?

pearce_jj
August 23rd, 2017, 03:45 AM
https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/DOS_Disk_Tester

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 04:33 AM
I would suggest booting from a floppy then I using my disk test utility with pattern testing to get an idea of data integrity. Some photos of the board (both sides) would help too.

40421

40422

Can't copy the fil file to floppy. Most of the tests show a row of !s and gives an error of over two hundred bad blocks.

alecv
August 23rd, 2017, 04:43 AM
I had a troubles with XT-IDE and CF-SD adaptor.
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?19591-XTIDE-tech-support-thread&p=357632#post357632
The adaptor uses KTC FC1307A chip as convertor from SD to CF (also popular for DoM)

This adaptor works just fine in the CF USB reader and in the XT/CF-Lite controller.

Seems not all DoM are fully compatible with IDE specs.

Malc
August 23rd, 2017, 04:44 AM
As you have Re-Flashed the Bios i'd try wiping the DOM and start again, Partition / Format and install DOS.

glitch
August 23rd, 2017, 05:52 AM
Seems not all DoM are fully compatible with IDE specs.

I've had literally hundreds of this particular model of DOM, dozens of them have been used with various XT-IDE boards, though for the most part I think it's been the Hargle/N8VEM designs, though that should not matter here. They're high-quality, high reliability industrial DOMs. These things usually work where other Flash solutions fail, which is why this is so odd.

It's possible that it was damaged in shipping, though unlikely (they're quite tough). Do you have another machine or adapter you can try it with?

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 06:45 AM
I've had literally hundreds of this particular model of DOM, dozens of them have been used with various XT-IDE boards, though for the most part I think it's been the Hargle/N8VEM designs, though that should not matter here. They're high-quality, high reliability industrial DOMs. These things usually work where other Flash solutions fail, which is why this is so odd.

It's possible that it was damaged in shipping, though unlikely (they're quite tough). Do you have another machine or adapter you can try it with?

Have a 486 with a Future Domain IDE card. I'll try the DoM in that.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 07:18 AM
Ok, progress.

I put the DoM in the 486 on the Future Domain card.

I deleted all the Partitions with fdisk. Created 1 partition. Installed a basic 6.22 system. DoM boots.

Removed the future Domain card put in the Lo-tech card with the DoM. Wouldn't boot. Tried fdisk /mbr. Successful boot.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 07:22 AM
My setup in the 5150 is as follows.

AST SixPackPlus with RTC activated.

OTI VGA card

EtherLink III NIC

Floppy drive controller.

The Lo-tech card.

I have another 5150 and will test with that.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 07:28 AM
Put the Lo-tech card in the first 5150.

Successful boot.

I'll try installing 5.00 from 5.25" floppies now.

EDIT: That didn't work.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 08:57 AM
OK, with the Lo-tech card in the 486, I installed PC DOS 4.01 on the DoM. It booted on the 486.

I transferred the Lo-tech card to the 5150. And it boots. Whoop!

Can't say if MS-DOS 5.00 was the culprit because I didn't install on the 486 and transfer the Lo-tech card to the 5150.

pearce_jj
August 23rd, 2017, 09:21 AM
Try the pattern tests on it now (in the XT).

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 09:27 AM
Try the pattern tests on it now (in the XT).

Will do.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 09:49 AM
Try the pattern tests on it now (in the XT).

disktest gives

0x0000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

then run time error 0000:0f24

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 10:05 AM
On the 486 the Comparing gives 1111111111111111111111111111111111

No bad blocks.

pearce_jj
August 23rd, 2017, 10:05 AM
Can you try pulling all the other cards, except the bare minimum needed to get the machine to boot, and retry?

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 10:12 AM
Can you try pulling all the other cards, except the bare minimum needed to get the machine to boot, and retry?

OK. Getting great exercise running up and down the ladder to the attic where the 5150 and 486 reside.

pearce_jj
August 23rd, 2017, 10:19 AM
Ha! :-)

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 10:41 AM
Removed the AST card, the NIC and floppy controller. Not enough memory to run DISKTEST.

Put AST back in and ran again. Got all 1s and No blocks had errors.

Put floppy controller back in. Ran DISKTEST. All 1s so far.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 10:56 AM
Removed floppy controller and put NIC backin.

DISKTEST Pattern one gives all !

Second Pattern giving 1s.

Seems the NIC is the problem which is a pity cos I want to run mTCP programmes.

The Etherlink III card has no jumpers but is software configurable. What settings would be conflicting with the Lo-tech card do you know?

glitch
August 23rd, 2017, 11:01 AM
Probably the I/O address.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 11:01 AM
With the NIC in, DISKTEST gives 102 32k bad blocks.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 11:28 AM
Probably the I/O address.

Is that the c8000 number or the 300h number?

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 12:01 PM
Seems the default EtherLink III I/O setting is 300h, the same as the Lo-tech card. I'll try changing that tomorrow.

pearce_jj
August 23rd, 2017, 12:44 PM
Glad it's sorted :-)

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 01:10 PM
Tried changing settings on the NIC. No luck.

Leaving out the NIC leaves me a free slot for a serial mouse card or a parallel port card. The VGA card doesn't have a parallel port like my MDA card.

Thanks for the help. Happy the DOM wasn't faulty.

I can now put my 63 W power supply back in. I was using a ST-225 with a modern AT PSU.

Stone
August 23rd, 2017, 01:26 PM
Tried changing settings on the NIC. No luck.

Leaving out the NIC leaves me a free slot for a serial mouse card or a parallel port card.You can always use a parallel port network (there are several options) to connect this machine to one other machine.

fjk61011
August 23rd, 2017, 01:45 PM
You can always use a parallel port network (there are several options) to connect this machine to one other machine.

Yes I'll follow that up.

fjk61011
August 24th, 2017, 05:12 AM
UPDATE:

I put the 63 W power supply back in the 5150. I discovered the DOM can power itself from the IDE port on the lo-tech card, leaving me a spare connector to power my second floppy drive.

I enabled the COM port and PARALLEL Port on the AST SixPackPlus. I had a PARALLEL Port with cable and was able to pass that out of the case beside the lo-tech card.

I installed a Microsoft Mouse on the COM Port and a BACKPACK 3.5" floppy drive on the PARALLEL Port.

VGA Card, PARALLEL Card, lo-tech Card and floppy drive controller.

I installed MS-DOS 5.00, the BACKPACK drivers and The Serial Mouse drivers. Re-booted and DOS loaded and the BACKPACHK and Serial Mouse work.

I've given up on the EtherLink III NIC and will probably buy a XIRCOM PARALLEL Port Card for networking so as I can use mTCP.

Running DISKTEST at the moment.

EDIT: DISKTEST successful, No blocks had errors.

Altogether a good day and a half work.

Stone
August 24th, 2017, 05:25 AM
I put the 63 W power supply back in the 5150. I discovered the DOM can power itself from the IDE port on the lo-tech card, leaving me a spare connector to power my second floppy drive.There are always 'Y' power cables for that. :-)

fjk61011
August 24th, 2017, 05:37 AM
There are always 'Y' power cables for that. :-)

I have one of them but can't find it.

fjk61011
August 24th, 2017, 11:46 AM
You can always use a parallel port network (there are several options) to connect this machine to one other machine.

I've ordered a XIRCOM PE3. Little expensive but has the adapter, phantom cable, software, manuals.

I'll report back when I've installed it and mTCP.

Krille
August 25th, 2017, 03:05 PM
Tried changing settings on the NIC. No luck.

"No luck" as in you managed to change the I/O address (if so, to what address?) but it still doesn't work or you failed to change the I/O address? If the latter, you need to move the NIC to a computer with 16-bit ISA slots (your 486 machine for example) and run 3C5X9CFG.EXE there to reconfigure the I/O address of the card, then move it back to the 5150.

Hope this helps!

fjk61011
August 26th, 2017, 12:51 AM
"No luck" as in you managed to change the I/O address (if so, to what address?) but it still doesn't work or you failed to change the I/O address? If the latter, you need to move the NIC to a computer with 16-bit ISA slots (your 486 machine for example) and run 3C5X9CFG.EXE there to reconfigure the I/O address of the card, then move it back to the 5150.

Hope this helps!

Used 3C5X9CFG.EXE in the 486. Tried a few I/Os from 200h. Also the IRQ. Was never good at working out Combinations but there would be quite a few.

I'm using the 3C509.COM packet driver which enables the EtherLink III to work in an 8-bit slot.

fjk61011
August 28th, 2017, 01:22 PM
I've ordered a XIRCOM PE3. Little expensive but has the adapter, phantom cable, software, manuals.

I'll report back when I've installed it and mTCP.

My XIRCOM has arrived. No software disk.

I got the software from glitch. Working on my PS/1 using mTCP.