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Nem84
September 17th, 2017, 12:56 PM
Hi there,

I was lucky enough to buy a complete IBM XT/286 (5162) couple of days ago. The computer seems very nice - I have cleaned it thoroughly and there are just some slight scratches on the case. I have a problem, though, as the board itself seems to be damaged.

Nice thing - EGA card is equipped with memory expansion board.

I have inspected it for ant physical damage, but everything seems OK. No signs of any abuse, no broken traces, no scratches. But as I tried to power it up, nothing is shown on the screen (tried two different PSU's). I checked all the resistors and capacitors for damage (lots of those) but they seem to be OK. The power gets thouht the board, as most of the chips get warm, including the CPU.

I have reseated all the socketed chips onboard, includng two simms.


My questions are:
- what should I do next to diagnose the fault?
- I hear there are some supersoft diagnostic roms - can I use them with this particular model (I only see them for the classic XT and 5170 models)
- generally, what to do next to get it working again?

Thanks for all your feedback!

mikey99
September 21st, 2017, 06:57 AM
I'm not sure if the 5170 SuperSoft ROMS will work in the 5162.

Is the internal speaker attached and do you hear any beeps when the system is turned on ?

Have you tried removing all cards except the EGA video card and powering on ?

What type of monitor is the EGA attached to and is that monitor working ?

Chuck(G)
September 21st, 2017, 07:38 AM
The SS diagnostic ROM should work in a 5162--it's pretty forgiving of differences.

Nem84
September 22nd, 2017, 07:12 AM
Thank you for your replies. Actually, I'm still struggling with getting it work.

Today I'm going to my another house where I keep most of my vintage computer stuff, including CGA monitor (IBM 5153) and a post card. So I will give it a try today.

I have already burnt two eeproms with Supersoft - I think this generally should work. 5162 circuitry, despite obvious differences, is said to be quite similar to 5170. So if SS even works with some 386 and 486 (see the manual), it should work fine, provided the board isn't damaged beyond certain point.

The bad: I have already tried SS with only speaker attached and it did not produced any sound, so I'm not too optimistic.

I will try the board with and without SIMMS inserted - as SS should even work without memory, up to some point where it checks first 16KB.
If everything else fails, I have already bought a logic probe and I will go checking one TTL another for possible fault. I also suspect the oscillator - we'll see.

All and all, this board has to be fixable. No chipset, nothing... It's just the question of spotting the fault and then eliminating it not causing any further damage..

I will post an update soon.

lyonadmiral
September 22nd, 2017, 07:12 AM
Hi there,

I was lucky enough to buy a complete IBM XT/286 (5162) couple of days ago. The computer seems very nice - I have cleaned it thoroughly and there are just some slight scratches on the case. I have a problem, though, as the board itself seems to be damaged.

Nice thing - EGA card is equipped with memory expansion board.

I have inspected it for ant physical damage, but everything seems OK. No signs of any abuse, no broken traces, no scratches. But as I tried to power it up, nothing is shown on the screen (tried two different PSU's). I checked all the resistors and capacitors for damage (lots of those) but they seem to be OK. The power gets thouht the board, as most of the chips get warm, including the CPU.

I have reseated all the socketed chips onboard, includng two simms.


My questions are:
- what should I do next to diagnose the fault?
- I hear there are some supersoft diagnostic roms - can I use them with this particular model (I only see them for the classic XT and 5170 models)
- generally, what to do next to get it working again?

Thanks for all your feedback!

I always recommend the Minimum Diagnostic Configuration pages over at Minus Zero Degrees (http://minuszerodegrees.net/5150_5160/MDC/minimum_diag_config.htm).

Malc
September 22nd, 2017, 09:20 AM
...I have already burnt two eeproms with Supersoft...

The bad: I have already tried SS with only speaker attached and it did not produced any sound, so I'm not too optimistic.....

What EEPROMS did you use ?, Use EPROMS and note like the 5160 / 5170 not all EPROMS are compatible with the 5162, Use the wrong EPROMS and you will get a no boot situation, The board will appear dead.

mikey99
September 22nd, 2017, 09:53 AM
Do you have an EGA monitor ?

You can configure the IBM EGA card to drive a CGA monitor, but if not configured properly it could damage the 5153 CGA.

First check the instructions here:
http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/ibm_ega/ibm_ega_switch_settings.htm

Nem84
September 22nd, 2017, 12:36 PM
Thanks again.

First about EGA card - I am aware that certain characteristics of EGA signal can damage 5153 monitor. In my IBM 5160 I have an original EGA card that I use along with this monitor and it works fine. I just avoid resolutions that are too high for the monitor and then use CGA mode. Anyway, for test today I used a regular CGA card (I have plenty of both EGA and CGA video adapers around).

For ROM images I used two types of chips: AMD 27C256 and ST 27256B. Those are regular UV erasable EEPROMS. I think they should work just fine - can you verify?

I put the post card in the board (I ran two tests: one with original ROM and one with Landmark). Unfortunately, the post card shows nothing. Only the leds indicate that (a) there is a proper voltage: (b) there is clock signal on ISA slot.

I guess I'm lost for now. Will need to figure out what to do next.

Malc
September 23rd, 2017, 12:08 PM
For ROM images I used two types of chips: AMD 27C256 and ST 27256B. Those are regular UV erasable EEPROMS. I think they should work just fine - can you verify?

I put the post card in the board (I ran two tests: one with original ROM and one with Landmark). Unfortunately, the post card shows nothing. Only the leds indicate that (a) there is a proper voltage: (b) there is clock signal on ISA slot.

I guess I'm lost for now. Will need to figure out what to do next.

I can't verify no, I don't think i have got those Eproms but i will have a look, The original Eproms that were in my 5162 are Intel and have a speed rating of 100ns, I don't use the IBM bios in mine, I use the AMI bios and i think i used Intel Eproms with 100 ns speed rating the same as the originals, I've never tried the SS roms in my 5162, I will burn a couple of Eproms and try it either tomorrow or monday, Just got home from a 12 hour shift, Too knackered to do anything now. BTW the UV erasable's are Eproms, EEproms are the Electrically Erasable type.

I can verify that the TMS27C256 Eproms with 120ns speed rating does *Not* work in my 5162, The board appears dead using those, Nothing wrong with the Eproms they are tested and known working, Just not compatible with my 5162 or my 5170 Rev 1 Mobo.

Chuck(G)
September 23rd, 2017, 12:18 PM
Do the Supersoft ROMs work with anything but an MDA or CGA? I can't remember.

Malc
September 23rd, 2017, 12:48 PM
I used MDA, IIRC i tried VGA once but i think the display was unreadable, But it's been a long time since i actually used the supersoft ROMs.

3pcedev
September 23rd, 2017, 03:12 PM
Do the Supersoft ROMs work with anything but an MDA or CGA? I can't remember.

Sort of; I used EGA once and it worked well enough to ascertain what was going on. The screen was garbled in places and it failed all the MDA/CGA tests (as you would expect).

Malc
September 24th, 2017, 01:11 PM
..... I've never tried the SS roms in my 5162, I will burn a couple of Eproms and try it either tomorrow or monday......

I found a couple of AMD 27C256 Eproms with a speed rating of 200ns, I burned the SS binaries which i downloaded from Modem7's site, Fitted them to my 5162 and using an MDA card / Monitor i powered up, As per the notes on Modem7's site i also get - During the protected mode CPU test "1 FAILED" is written to the top line, The Protected mode CPU test is then indicated as "PASSED", and testing continues. So the Supersoft roms do work in the 5162.
40936

Have you measured all the voltages with the PSU conected to the motherboard and running ?

Nem84
September 25th, 2017, 02:13 AM
I will measure the voltages with a multimetr in the evening and post results.

However, when I tried my post card it reported proper voltage both on 12v and 5v lines.

Should I sample the voltage only from the sockets where the PSU is connected or are there any other critical spots I should check?

Malc
September 30th, 2017, 09:35 AM
I wouldn't rely on the post card's LED's, Use a DMM every time, Measure from the sockets and measure all voltages +12v -12v +5v -5v and the Power Good line, Modem7 has a pic on his site [ Here (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5150_5160/misc/5150_5160_use_of_5170_psu.jpg) ]