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View Full Version : New owner of a Kaypro 4 '83. Some questions.



liqmat
December 7th, 2017, 09:19 AM
I restore 8088 machines on up, but this Kaypro 4 '83 model I just acquired is new to me and so is CPM.

It mostly is in excellent working condition, but here is the rundown so far and I need some advice:

1.) Drive A: works most of the time. Once in a great while it wont read a disc, but if I take the disc out and do a blow/shake and then reinsert it it will read it again most of the time.
2.) Drive B: wont read any discs.
3.) The screen works, but it has a bit of shaking in the image until it warms up and then stabilizes. It always is nice and bright though.

Both drives seem like they need some lubricating as the motors sound rough at best. Kind of a grindy sound to them. Maybe that is normal with these Kaypro full height 5" drives? Probably want to check the guide rails as well. Any suggestions on what grease to use for those? I do have a new old stock floppy drive on the way just in case.

As far as the screen goes what advice would you give as I am not a CRT tech and the thought of high voltage running through my nervous system does not excite me in the least bit, but do you think something like a shaky image when cold and normal when warmed up is a problem I should address now or just wait?

Also, I have been researching imaging all the disks and of course that opens up a whole new can of worms. So I have one question. I have an old Pentium III socket 370 system with dual floppy support. Would a modern controller like that be able to handle one the Kaypro 4 drives directly? I was thinking about using something like WinImage with the drive hooked up directly to the Pentium III, but I have no idea if that would even work??? Imagedisk just seems like a pain, but if I must, I will use it. WinImage is just so elegant and simple to use with PC related disks.

Thanks for any help. I have been using computers since the late 70s, but had zero exposure to CPM or the Kaypro line of systems.

42375

SomeGuy
December 7th, 2017, 10:08 AM
Very nice!

Those look like Tandon floppy drives. They can be noisy, and that is fairly normal but may vary from drive to drive. Head stepping is usually quite loud compared to later drives. The exact sound can vary depending on the head stepping speed the the machine uses. The drive motors can be noisy too. I have two in my CDP1600 that make a good bit of noise when the disks spin. Keep in mind these are belt driven drives.

Chances are the drives need to be removed an given a good cleaning and inspection. A common problem is dust collecting on the rails preventing the heads from moving. I usually use Lithum grease to lubricate rails. You can use a q-tip and alcohol to carefully clean the heads, although for routine cleaning a cleaning disk is less hassle.

The wobbling in the picture until warm up sounds like there might be an electrolytic capacitor starting to go bad in the video circuitry. Not too hard to fix if you can find the guilty component. Although I am not sure how these units behaved normally. Small monochrome CRTs are not really dangerous, but as always be sure to follow the proper discharging steps.

Chuck(G)
December 7th, 2017, 10:25 AM
Do the drive motors sound "grindy" without a disk inserted? My concern is that you're trying to use contaminated or deteriorated media with the result that the "grindy" sound is coming from the contact of the heads with the disk.

liqmat
December 7th, 2017, 11:57 AM
Very nice!

Those look like Tandon floppy drives. They can be noisy, and that is fairly normal but may vary from drive to drive. Head stepping is usually quite loud compared to later drives. The exact sound can vary depending on the head stepping speed the the machine uses. The drive motors can be noisy too. I have two in my CDP1600 that make a good bit of noise when the disks spin. Keep in mind these are belt driven drives.

Chances are the drives need to be removed an given a good cleaning and inspection. A common problem is dust collecting on the rails preventing the heads from moving. I usually use Lithum grease to lubricate rails. You can use a q-tip and alcohol to carefully clean the heads, although for routine cleaning a cleaning disk is less hassle.

The wobbling in the picture until warm up sounds like there might be an electrolytic capacitor starting to go bad in the video circuitry. Not too hard to fix if you can find the guilty component. Although I am not sure how these units behaved normally. Small monochrome CRTs are not really dangerous, but as always be sure to follow the proper discharging steps.

Thanks for the reply. I am getting a new wrench set shipped to me as mine is shot. When that arrives I will be pulling both drives and giving them a thorough cleaning and lube if needed. These drives look like my ITT Xtra XP 80286 6MHz machine, built to last a long time. As far as the video circuitry I feel uncomfortable messing with that on my own because of the nasty voltages running through those parts and better to be safe than sorry. I did contact one TV repair guy and he just laughed me off and wont do the work on it. So I'll keep searching. I recap boards all the time, but never something like that where it can bite back even when unplugged.

I'll ask again as I know it's a common question. Is Imagedisk the best approach to imaging these disks? I am a tad confused about the 250k > 300k or 300k > 250k and formatting to the exact sectors etc. so it will read the disks. I have a box of 100 new old stock KAO 5" MD2D double sided double density 48 TPI disks that I picked up cheap and I think those will be a perfect fit for this machine and I use them on my ITT Xtra 80286 as well.

clh333
December 7th, 2017, 12:11 PM
Disks: First check that the media is not binding in the disk sleeve. Rotate the inner ring and look at the surface of the disk. Any scratches? Binding will slow the rotation enough to throw off a read, and may collect part of the jacket onto the media or from there onto the head. After that the cover has to come off so you can remove the drives from their cage. Pay attention or mark so you can differentiate A from B when you reinstall. A has no termination pack but B should have one. The '83 4 should have a fan at the back of the case; it draws air from the front and expels out the back. As a result the drives will probably be dusty. Clean with isopropyl alcohol. I wouldn't use any grease but some people like WD-40 on bearing surfaces.

If Disk B's problem isn't obvious, e.g. loose cabling or wrong termination, there may be a capacitor at fault. There are test points on the disk's board but I don't think I have a Tandon service manual. Someone here will, though: maybe Chuck(G). Tandons sound like a coffee grinder when stepping so that in itself is not an indication of health or lack thereof. Cleaning won't alleviate that, anyway.

Video wobble indicates a bad cap - probably electrolytic - and most likely in the display section behind the CRT. I don't think there are any electrolytics on the motherboard. But the good news is it stabilizes after warmup. If it were me I'd wait to see if it got worse or better as time goes by. Some caps that haven't been used in a long time can "reform" themselves with regular use.

When you say you want to image the disks are you looking to make a backup copy of the software or an image of the disk itself that you can later transfer to new media? If you just want to read the files off the disk look for a program such as UNIFORM with which you can read CP/M format disks on a PC. There are numerous sites with already-imaged CP/M disks in archive. Check out WinWorld.com, for example.

Two other things to look out for: With the cover off: there may be a clock backup battery on the motherboard. I would remove that for fear of leakage. In the keyboard: the keyswitch is a capacitive-switch that uses a foil pad on top of a foam pad. The foam pad may deteriorate, leading to dead keys.

Hope this helps. The Kaypro was primitive and so was CP/M, compared to practically everything that came after it. Lord knows why we collect them. Masochism?

-CH-

liqmat
December 7th, 2017, 12:52 PM
Do the drive motors sound "grindy" without a disk inserted? My concern is that you're trying to use contaminated or deteriorated media with the result that the "grindy" sound is coming from the contact of the heads with the disk.

Yes. They have grindy sound with no disk and a slight squeal to them. Sounds like the belt might be sqealing a bit. I decided to take a new MD2D disk and stick it in the second drive and try and format it to see what happens. Bad sector errors constantly and its leaving physcial scars on the disk as you can see in my photo. This is not normal as the first drive does not display this behavior. Yikes. This drive needs some work if you ask me. Once my new wrench set comes in I'll get busy on it. I do not regret ordering another drive just in case. The first drive works most of the time. Once in a great while it will have trouble reading any disk so hopefully that is just a cleaning issue.

42379

liqmat
December 7th, 2017, 01:14 PM
Disks: First check that the media is not binding in the disk sleeve. Rotate the inner ring and look at the surface of the disk. Any scratches? Binding will slow the rotation enough to throw off a read, and may collect part of the jacket onto the media or from there onto the head. After that the cover has to come off so you can remove the drives from their cage. Pay attention or mark so you can differentiate A from B when you reinstall. A has no termination pack but B should have one. The '83 4 should have a fan at the back of the case; it draws air from the front and expels out the back. As a result the drives will probably be dusty. Clean with isopropyl alcohol. I wouldn't use any grease but some people like WD-40 on bearing surfaces.

If Disk B's problem isn't obvious, e.g. loose cabling or wrong termination, there may be a capacitor at fault. There are test points on the disk's board but I don't think I have a Tandon service manual. Someone here will, though: maybe Chuck(G). Tandons sound like a coffee grinder when stepping so that in itself is not an indication of health or lack thereof. Cleaning won't alleviate that, anyway.

Video wobble indicates a bad cap - probably electrolytic - and most likely in the display section behind the CRT. I don't think there are any electrolytics on the motherboard. But the good news is it stabilizes after warmup. If it were me I'd wait to see if it got worse or better as time goes by. Some caps that haven't been used in a long time can "reform" themselves with regular use.

When you say you want to image the disks are you looking to make a backup copy of the software or an image of the disk itself that you can later transfer to new media? If you just want to read the files off the disk look for a program such as UNIFORM with which you can read CP/M format disks on a PC. There are numerous sites with already-imaged CP/M disks in archive. Check out WinWorld.com, for example.

Two other things to look out for: With the cover off: there may be a clock backup battery on the motherboard. I would remove that for fear of leakage. In the keyboard: the keyswitch is a capacitive-switch that uses a foil pad on top of a foam pad. The foam pad may deteriorate, leading to dead keys.

Hope this helps. The Kaypro was primitive and so was CP/M, compared to practically everything that came after it. Lord knows why we collect them. Masochism?

-CH-

Yes. Very familiar with floppy drive termination as many XT class machines are like this as well. I will check that once I get the drives out.

I was not aware the 4 '83 had a case fan and mine does not nor do many of the units I see being worked on on Youtube. Are you sure they had fans in this model?

I agree with you on the minor video issue. Wait and see. From what I can see the tubes are near impossible to find anymore so if it ever fails I might do a LCD mod, but that would be very involved I'm sure, maybe not. Has it been done yet?

No clock battery and with any computer or console system I'm restoring it's the first thing I look for. Hell, I just ran across a Socket 370 board that had a leaking CR-2025 which was a first for me. Those usually don't leak. Luckily no damage. The plastic battery tray isolated the leakage from the traces.

As far as this foam pad on the keyboard, that does not exist on the keyboard I have. Zero foam anywhere and it works perfectly. When you say foil and foam, are these materials internal to each key switch? I just don't see it. Attached some photos. The keyboard has no issues luckily and yes, it needs a deep cleaning.

4238042381

clh333
December 8th, 2017, 09:37 AM
On the underside of the key switch is the pad and foil. You won't see it by removing the key cap but by disassembling the housing to reveal the matrix under the keys. The keyboard was made by KeyTronic and they won't even talk to you about this style of board any more. Here is a link with pictures showing the parts I reference: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92067.0

There is a fan in the Kaypro 10 case and in one of the 4 variants, but not sure it was this one. Ditto RTC and battery.

-CH-

Alphasite
December 8th, 2017, 09:57 AM
On the underside of the key switch is the pad and foil. You won't see it by removing the key cap but by disassembling the housing to reveal the matrix under the keys. The keyboard was made by KeyTronic and they won't even talk to you about this style of board any more. Here is a link with pictures showing the parts I reference: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92067.0

There is a fan in the Kaypro 10 case and in one of the 4 variants, but not sure it was this one. Ditto RTC and battery.

-CH-

I read that thread. I didn't realize there were two different types of Kaypro keyboards. I need to check the ones I have to see.

liqmat
December 8th, 2017, 10:12 AM
On the underside of the key switch is the pad and foil. You won't see it by removing the key cap but by disassembling the housing to reveal the matrix under the keys. The keyboard was made by KeyTronic and they won't even talk to you about this style of board any more. Here is a link with pictures showing the parts I reference: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92067.0

There is a fan in the Kaypro 10 case and in one of the 4 variants, but not sure it was this one. Ditto RTC and battery.

-CH-

Yeah, I don't see any evidence there was a fan in the case at any point. As far as the keyboard goes, what is the approach to removing the keys? Some keyboards are a straight pull up. Do not want to break this beauty so any advice on that would be appreciated. Thanks.

MikeS
December 8th, 2017, 11:50 AM
Yeah, I don't see any evidence there was a fan in the case at any point. As far as the keyboard goes, what is the approach to removing the keys? Some keyboards are a straight pull up. Do not want to break this beauty so any advice on that would be appreciated. Thanks.
If it "works perfectly" I wouldn't worry about it.

liqmat
December 8th, 2017, 11:58 AM
If it "works perfectly" I wouldn't worry about it.

I'll be careful then and approach it like an XT keyboard. I am not worried about it, but this will eventually be a display piece and I thoroughly clean all my systems for museum displays. Thanks.

liqmat
December 9th, 2017, 11:59 AM
Hey folks,

So under suggestion from another Kaypro owner I removed the drives from the Kaypro 4, I cleaned the heads and rails with some isopropyl alcohol and hooked them up to an older PC floppy connector, set the BIOS to a 360K diskette drive and tried to read some disks that way. It did not work. Can I hook these drives up like this to a PC floppy connector and expect them to read the Kaypro disks for imaging? I was told yes, but I can't seem to get it to work. Thanks in advance.

ldkraemer
December 9th, 2017, 01:10 PM
liqmat,
Yes, you should be able to get the drives to work on a PC. But, you need to understand that the Kaypro uses a Straight through cable, with Drive 0 (A:) strapped
for drive 0, and Drive 1 (B:) is strapped for 1. This is done on the Logic board of each floppy drive.

The PC likely has a twisted cable, which has conductors 10-16 twisted and will give you a fit when you try to get the floppy's working.
If you replace the twisted cable on the pc with a straight through cable, assuming you are booting from a Hard Drive, you can plug in
one or two of the floppy drives and after selecting them in the BIOS, it should work. But, you will need 22DISK, Imagedisk, or a
program like Convert to be able to access the files on the Kaypro Floppy's.

You could always just hook up the Drive 1 (B:) Kaypro Floppy Drive to the PC, and then use a blank floppy to format and test
with on the PC using DOS. Then you could run 22DISK and format the floppy as a Kaypro Floppy.

I've got a document that describes the interfacing of Floppy's to various Floppy Disk Controllers (FDC) that I will send by email.
It's easy after you do a couple.

Larry

liqmat
December 9th, 2017, 01:45 PM
liqmat,
Yes, you should be able to get the drives to work on a PC. But, you need to understand that the Kaypro uses a Straight through cable, with Drive 0 (A:) strapped
for drive 0, and Drive 1 (B:) is strapped for 1. This is done on the Logic board of each floppy drive.

The PC likely has a twisted cable, which has conductors 10-16 twisted and will give you a fit when you try to get the floppy's working.
If you replace the twisted cable on the pc with a straight through cable, assuming you are booting from a Hard Drive, you can plug in
one or two of the floppy drives and after selecting them in the BIOS, it should work. But, you will need 22DISK, Imagedisk, or a
program like Convert to be able to access the files on the Kaypro Floppy's.

You could always just hook up the Drive 1 (B:) Kaypro Floppy Drive to the PC, and then use a blank floppy to format and test
with on the PC using DOS. Then you could run 22DISK and format the floppy as a Kaypro Floppy.

I've got a document that describes the interfacing of Floppy's to various Floppy Disk Controllers (FDC) that I will send by email.
It's easy after you do a couple.

Larry

Hey thanks. Now I get it. You're right, I was trying to use the twisted cable. I sent you a couple of emails to verify my email address to you. I hope you received them. Also, just got done cleaning the drives and now drive B: is working great. They both still sound like rusty hamster wheels LOL, but they do work. I did find one thing peculiar is when I do a copy command the disk copies fine from A: to B:, but when I verify it just spits out bad sectors, YET the data is readable anyway on that disk. Strange indeed to me. My boot disk looks like a Kaypro II disk because it says Kaypro II 64K on the screen after boot. I am including a photo of the motherboard and I am hoping you guys can identify if the motherboard has been switcherooed or something. Does this actually look like the proper motherboard for a Kaypro 4/83? Thanks and I look forward to some of these zip files.

42403

Actually this looks to be the proper motherboard from some comparison motherboards I Googled. Ok. So I'll get a proper Kaypro 4/83 boot disk image then.

ldkraemer
December 9th, 2017, 04:56 PM
Well, You are trying too hard to keep ahead of me. What you need is the ROM Info from the Photo and then go to this site
and get the proper version of software.

http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/kaypro/index.html
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/

81-146 Kaypro II/4/83 character generator
81-232 Kaypro II/4/83 monitor

http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/index.html
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kpro/index.html

Then download all the associated images (*.IMD or *.TD0 files). Once you have the *.TD0 (Teledisk) and/or *.IMD (Imagedisk) files
you can extract all the files with cpmtools following the information I previously emailed you.

I'm building a long document, but haven't had enough time to get it completed.

Larry

durgadas311
December 9th, 2017, 05:01 PM
Kaypro technical documentation from bitsavers identifies that board and PROMs as a "Kaypro 2/4". I'm not sure what was different between the II and the 4 ('83), but it seems the board was (mostly) the same for both.

liqmat
December 10th, 2017, 07:24 AM
Well, You are trying too hard to keep ahead of me. What you need is the ROM Info from the Photo and then go to this site
and get the proper version of software.

http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/kaypro/index.html
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/

81-146 Kaypro II/4/83 character generator
81-232 Kaypro II/4/83 monitor

http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/index.html
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kpro/index.html

Then download all the associated images (*.IMD or *.TD0 files). Once you have the *.TD0 (Teledisk) and/or *.IMD (Imagedisk) files
you can extract all the files with cpmtools following the information I previously emailed you.

I'm building a long document, but haven't had enough time to get it completed.

Larry

Holy crap ldkraemer, you have been more than helpful and I do appreciate it being a n00b with CPM and Kaypro products. Honestly picked this system up because I am going to be using it as a prop in an artistic production I can't say anything about, but understanding it enough to keep it running and and looking good is essential. The industrial design looks of the system is what attracted me to it and for using it in the artistic endeavors it will be a part of. Eventually it will end up in a museum where I regularly donate to.

liqmat
December 12th, 2017, 04:49 PM
On the underside of the key switch is the pad and foil. You won't see it by removing the key cap but by disassembling the housing to reveal the matrix under the keys. The keyboard was made by KeyTronic and they won't even talk to you about this style of board any more. Here is a link with pictures showing the parts I reference: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92067.0

There is a fan in the Kaypro 10 case and in one of the 4 variants, but not sure it was this one. Ditto RTC and battery.

-CH-

Before I fully clean and restore this Kaypro 4/83 I have to do the same for an ITT Xtra XP 80286 machine. As I was tearing down the ITT keyboard, which was built during the same period as the Kaypro, it has what you described. Foam pads and foil. Luckily it also is still in usable condition, but good grief man, what a short sighted design. That is going to be a major pain in the arse to replace each and every one down the road.

4244342444

clh333
December 13th, 2017, 01:36 AM
Anywhere between 80 and 105 keys, approximately, depending on the design of the board. Explains why people are fond of the "mechanical" IBM keyboards, e. g. "buckling spring" as is used in the Model M. The capacitive design was undoubtedly cheaper and easier to make but many types of foam from that era have not held up well. You may find the same sort of deterioration inside a dot-matrix printer of comparable age.

KeyTronic no longer makes or stocks parts for this keyboard. The company that made the foam pads for KeyTronic would not respond to my inquiries. There is a person who sells, on eBay, a "set" of 75 adhesive-faced foam dots for keyboard repair. Cost is about $30, as I recall. I know of no one who makes replacement foil dots, however, so save any that you have for re-use.

-CH-

liqmat
January 4th, 2018, 02:02 PM
Looks like I am missing the kickstand from the bottom of the unit. I don't see where it interfaces, but are these a hard item to find on their own? Anyone have an extra part sitting in a dark corner?

I see, it interfaces with the front feet. Anyone with an extra kickstand they want to sell?

liqmat
January 14th, 2018, 05:12 PM
Now that I have finished restoring an ITT Xtra XP early 286 system I am beginning restoration on the Kaypro 4/83. Tested all three Tandon drives on my Socket 370 system and all tested ok after cleaning the heads. One of the drives is noisy as hell, disk or not, but seems to operate fine. The other two are much quieter. This should be fun and will be my last restoration for awhile. One thing I have noticed right off the bat is the screen will flicker off and on once in a great while. It's been sitting idle for quite some time from what I am told from the previous owner so I will burn this thing for the next few weeks and see if that doesn't stabilize on its own before digging for trouble.

43022

liqmat
January 15th, 2018, 08:17 PM
I need another terminator for one of my Kaypro Tandon floppy drives. I was reading this thread in the Tandy area of this forum. Would these 16-pin resistors work for those drives?

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?53358-Tandon-TM100-2-correct-terminator-and-jumper-settings

liqmat
January 16th, 2018, 08:09 AM
Well here it is after being fully disassembled, cleaned and all drives checked. Soaked all the keys in soapy water for an hour and cleaned out the keyboard of all dirt and dust. Got all the old disks transferred to new old stock floppies. I really like the looks of this particular model. It has the whole Fallout post apocalyptic look to it IMO. I'll just deal with the missing kickstand. It rests nicely on the keyboard. Have a few of the drive terminators on the way. One thing I find crazy about this particular machine is when I hit Enter for a disk command and the disk motor starts the screen will very quickly shrink a tiny bit and then resolve to a normal image again. It's very slight and very quick. Almost like the startup of the disk motor takes some power from the rest of the system is the best way I can describe it. It doesn't seem malignant so *shrug*.

43065
43066

VERAULT
January 16th, 2018, 08:25 AM
Well here it is after being fully disassembled, cleaned and all drives checked. Soaked all the keys in soapy water for an hour and cleaned out the keyboard of all dirt and dust. Got all the old disks transferred to new old stock floppies. I really like the looks of this particular model. It has the whole Fallout post apocalyptic look to it IMO. I'll just deal with the missing kickstand. It rests nicely on the keyboard. Have a few of the drive terminators on the way. One thing I find crazy about this particular machine is when I hit Enter for a disk command and the disk motor starts the screen will very quickly shrink a tiny bit and then resolve to a normal image again. It's very slight and very quick. Almost like the startup of the disk motor takes some power from the rest of the system is the best way I can describe it. It doesn't seem malignant so *shrug*.

43065
43066

Very Nice Liqmat, I have a kaypro 4 and kaypro 4/83 ( I hate their numbering and naming convention), yours looks nice and clean. Can you post a couple pictures of the back and any stickers? Also, if you are going to be doing any work with old non standard style floppy disks you may want to invest in a kryoflux board.

liqmat
January 16th, 2018, 10:01 AM
Very Nice Liqmat, I have a kaypro 4 and kaypro 4/83 ( I hate their numbering and naming convention), yours looks nice and clean. Can you post a couple pictures of the back and any stickers? Also, if you are going to be doing any work with old non standard style floppy disks you may want to invest in a kryoflux board.

Interesting. Would this allow me to circumvent using 22DISK and just copy files from a PC directly to a Kaypro formatted disk? I have a spare Kaypro 360K Tandon drive I usually hookup to a Socket 370 motherboard floppy controller in normal times. I am probably not fully understanding Kryoflux does, but I thought I would ask since I have never heard of this interface board. Thanks.

VERAULT
January 16th, 2018, 10:09 AM
Liqmat, I cant answer that as I dont use my kryoflux for any kaypro or CP/M tasks. I would check out the Kryoflux site they have a good forum with alot of good information at least. The device is meant to hookup to 8", 5.25", 3.5" and 3" floppy drives so who knows what people have been able to achieve on their forums at this point.

clh333
January 17th, 2018, 02:05 AM
Also, if you are going to be doing any work with old non standard style floppy disks you may want to invest in a kryoflux board.

Or possibly the SuperCard Pro. [http://www.cbmstuff.com/proddetail.php?prod=scp] I have both and tend to use the SCP in preference to the Kryoflux. Jim Drew, the designer of the board, was involved with the old Copy II PC board of Central Point fame...

It is important to keep in mind that the drive you are using to image your old floppies should closely track the drives installed in the machine. Not only does this imply proper alignment, but correct density and spindle speed. In other words, don't expect to make copies with a 1.2 Mb drive; look for a 360k and, if possible, DSDD disks with which to make your copies of the earlier Kaypro disks.

-CH-

liqmat
January 17th, 2018, 07:24 AM
Or possibly the SuperCard Pro. [http://www.cbmstuff.com/proddetail.php?prod=scp] I have both and tend to use the SCP in preference to the Kryoflux. Jim Drew, the designer of the board, was involved with the old Copy II PC board of Central Point fame...

It is important to keep in mind that the drive you are using to image your old floppies should closely track the drives installed in the machine. Not only does this imply proper alignment, but correct density and spindle speed. In other words, don't expect to make copies with a 1.2 Mb drive; look for a 360k and, if possible, DSDD disks with which to make your copies of the earlier Kaypro disks.

-CH-

Oh yes, well aware. Some people have had limited success with formatting their 360K DSDD disks in the original drive and then writing once with a 1.2MB drive, but personally I just use a spare Tandon that I have and hook it up directly to a Socket 370 motherboard. I am about to dive into using 22DISK and am a little intimidated as I have heard it is not user friendly.

VERAULT
January 17th, 2018, 07:39 AM
Or possibly the SuperCard Pro. [http://www.cbmstuff.com/proddetail.php?prod=scp] I have both and tend to use the SCP in preference to the Kryoflux. Jim Drew, the designer of the board, was involved with the old Copy II PC board of Central Point fame...

It is important to keep in mind that the drive you are using to image your old floppies should closely track the drives installed in the machine. Not only does this imply proper alignment, but correct density and spindle speed. In other words, don't expect to make copies with a 1.2 Mb drive; look for a 360k and, if possible, DSDD disks with which to make your copies of the earlier Kaypro disks.

-CH-

Well I do like Jim Drew's stuff, So I am sure its a great product. I only recently started reading about it. I got the kryoflux 5 years ago to the day almost (jan 2013)! There weren't exactly choices then...

liqmat
January 21st, 2018, 04:40 PM
Wow, so fired up my Windows 98SE Socket 370 machine and just did a F8 out to DOS from boot and 22DISK worked like a charm. So easy to use. Building disk images in minutes with it for the Kaypro 4. Great utility.

ldkraemer
January 22nd, 2018, 05:28 AM
liqmat,
Yes, 22DISK is PERFECT for the older Hardware. Don't forget that if you're not a REGISTERED user, that you can easily become a REGISTERED user, and receive
the latest update from Chuck(G). It's well worth the cost, even for a one time use.

Larry

liqmat
January 22nd, 2018, 11:56 AM
liqmat,
Yes, 22DISK is PERFECT for the older Hardware. Don't forget that if you're not a REGISTERED user, that you can easily become a REGISTERED user, and receive
the latest update from Chuck(G). It's well worth the cost, even for a one time use.

Larry

Well, just loaded up Teledisk and finally figured out how to get a SSDD TD0 image to correctly image to a disk. Had to format my DSDD disk first in 22DISK to a SSDD and then use Teledisk to image the floppy with a SSDD TD0 image. Otherwise no files would show.

Is there a way to take a SSDD TD0 image and dump it correctly to a DSDD disk or do I have to do what I think you have to do. With Teledisk, write to formatted SSDD disk and then with 22DISK copy the files to DOS and then copy them back again to CP/M on a DSDD disk? That's my roundabout way anyways.

Hope I explained that clearly.

tezza
January 22nd, 2018, 02:50 PM
liqmat,
Yes, 22DISK is PERFECT for the older Hardware. Don't forget that if you're not a REGISTERED user, that you can easily become a REGISTERED user, and receive
the latest update from Chuck(G). It's well worth the cost, even for a one time use.

Larry

I second that!

Tez