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View Full Version : I want my Insert key!



carlsson
February 15th, 2007, 06:16 AM
I helped a colleague at work with a software product I'm developing and she's beta testing. At one point, she needed to cut and paste text from the application, but was not able to use the mouse.

-"It is easy" I said, "just use Ctrl + Insert to copy text and Shift + Insert to paste it."

Then I looked at her computer keyboard. No Insert key at all! Instead the separate Delete key is twice as big as usually. The keyboard - I can't remember which make - has all kinds of extra junk buttons on the top row, for sending e-mail, surfing the web, scanning a document and so on. But they removed exactly one key and left the rest of the keyboard layout intact!?! WTF? The computer is maybe 2-3 years old.

To the music of Dire Straits' hit song: "I want my insert key!"

Fortunately it did have a numeric keyboard, so I was able to use the "0" key in non-numeric mode as Insert.

dongfeng
February 15th, 2007, 07:45 AM
I found that out recently, when my old keyboard stopped working. It seems that a lot of new keyboards have this layout, but I have no idea why it was redesigned. I also use the SHIFT+INSERT to paste!

Thankfully, some keyboards keep the traditional layout.

NathanAllan
February 15th, 2007, 08:34 AM
I know about the insert comands but I have always used <ctrl><c> and <ctrl><v> to copy and paste. At least on anything win/dos based.

I know what you mean though. I shudder at the thought of getting a new keyboard when I can't find a good old style one.

Nathan

IBMMuseum
February 15th, 2007, 10:05 AM
...Then I looked at her computer keyboard. No Insert key at all! Instead the separate Delete key is twice as big as usually. The keyboard - I can't remember which make - has all kinds of extra junk buttons on the top row, for sending e-mail, surfing the web, scanning a document and so on. But they removed exactly one key and left the rest of the keyboard layout intact!?! WTF?...

That's gonna make me look to see the box doesn't say "100-Key Keyboard" next time I do a similiar purchase... ;-)

Vlad
February 15th, 2007, 12:55 PM
I'll never give up my IBM Model M's. Never. The one I use daily has been going strong since 1988.

Mad-Mike
February 15th, 2007, 03:52 PM
I'm never giving my old Northgate Omnikey 102 GoldLabel up for anythingI've killed 2 keyswitches, and broke the Enter key, and for this, I keep an old Alps based keyboard around that's dead to put new parts on the OmniKey when the parts wear out. To go with that, I have a Model "M" and a Model "M" SpaceSaver keyboard for backup (with AT AND PS/2 cables).

IBMMuseum
February 15th, 2007, 04:21 PM
I'll never give up my IBM Model M's. Never. The one I use daily has been going strong since 1988.

Although I have many Model Ms (of course) I am using an IBM Trackpoint II (Black!) right now. A more modern twist (the eraserhead & mouse buttons I can use, since it uses both PS/2 connections, in addition to my optical scroll mouse on USB) as the M, with exactly the same feel. So there is other things you will have to pry my cold, dead fingers from.

chuckcmagee
February 15th, 2007, 06:44 PM
Yes indeed, I own an M and another older one. Says manufactured in 1984 on the bottom. Still works perfect.

Unknown_K
February 15th, 2007, 08:01 PM
I'm never giving my old Northgate Omnikey 102 GoldLabel up for anythingI've killed 2 keyswitches, and broke the Enter key, and for this, I keep an old Alps based keyboard around that's dead to put new parts on the OmniKey when the parts wear out. To go with that, I have a Model "M" and a Model "M" SpaceSaver keyboard for backup (with AT AND PS/2 cables).

I have an omnikey/102 (this keyboard as a matter of fact), what do you mean by gold label?

Mad-Mike
February 16th, 2007, 01:19 AM
I have an omnikey/102 (this keyboard as a matter of fact), what do you mean by gold label?

Gold label is the earlier variant of the omni key 102, called such because of the brass label on the upper left hand corner of the keyboard. The later ones have a tan/blue colored label if I remember correctly.

I was lucky to find this keyboard, it was in a pile of other old AT/XT keyboards that the thrift store had, I paid $3 total for all of them if I remember right. The OmniKey was like brand new. It's holding up really well for being under steady use for nearly 4-6 years now.

carlsson
February 16th, 2007, 04:34 AM
I can understand if the manufacturer wants to cut down on the number of confusing, seldom used keys and therefore drops keys like Insert, Scroll Lock and function keys F9 to F12. The overall keyboard could be made to take less space. But in the case when the manufacturer adds a whole new row of keys that require special software to be useful, and which the incertain user anyway will be reluctant to use, I don't see why they remove one or two keys at the expense of making another key larger.

Does someone (IBM??) have a patent on 101/102 keyboards, and every other manufacturer has to pay a license fee to manufacture keyboards according to the layout, so that is why some would experiment with the design to add a few keys, remove a few and reposition the rest?

As I see it, on this particular keyboard the need to delete things has been emphasized by making the Delete key twice as big as it usually is. Perhaps it is the computing world's equivalent of going on a diet: you need to delete junk files, remove superfluous text from your documents and generally restrict your usage to maintain the computer working well. To do so, we have brought you a gigantic Delete key. The next model will also include a foot pedal, so whenever you feel the urge to remove something, just stamp with your left foot onto the pedal, and all the spam emails and last year's accouting will be permantently deleted from your computer.

Vlad
February 16th, 2007, 04:50 AM
A lot of the Microsoft office keyboards do this. They drop Insert but Good old timey System Request (SysReq) is still there. (Am I the only one who uses SysReq?) I liked my IBM AT or XT, I don't remember which that has the Function keys down the left side and Caps Lock was still in its original (and rightful) place. What happened to that?

-VK

carlsson
February 16th, 2007, 09:02 AM
I'm not sure about US layouts, but on Swedish layout, SysRq shares the key with PrintScrn. And one thing for certain, I make a lot of screenshots these days, thanks to Windows' built in features to dump a window or whole screen (maybe even a small area?). Admittingly, I don't know what the key on its own does or is supposed to do.

Vlad
February 16th, 2007, 09:15 AM
SysReq does share Print Screen. Alt PrtScr will invoke SysReq. The only thing its used for anymore is some UNIX related stuff. Last time I used it, the Network Debian installer crapped out and Break wouldn't. It was locked until I used SysReq. Google tells of what it can do, although its rarely if ever used.

Bill_Loguidice
February 16th, 2007, 11:55 AM
I can't believe after all this time I didn't realize that "SysRq" was there right under "PrntScn". I'm actually amazed that "SysRq" simply hasn't been removed by now and just "PrntScn" left. Perhaps "PrtScn" should be renamed "Snpsht" as well by now...

Anyone use the "ScrLk" key? I sure don't. I do use the "Pause"/"Break" quite a bit though, at least with the "Windows" key... ;-)

dongfeng
February 16th, 2007, 12:51 PM
Anyone use the "ScrLk" key? I sure don't. I do use the "Pause"/"Break" quite a bit though, at least with the "Windows" key... ;-)


One of the reasons I don't use a Model M on my 'everyday' computer is due to the lack of Windows key. They are just too useful as a shortcut to many things, and I have a habit of using it. A Model M with a Windows key would be perfect :)

Erik
February 16th, 2007, 12:55 PM
One of the reasons I don't use a Model M on my 'everyday' computer is due to the lack of Windows key. They are just too useful as a shortcut to many things, and I have a habit of using it. A Model M with a Windows key would be perfect :)

Ctrl-Esc not good enough for ya, eh? :D

dongfeng
February 16th, 2007, 01:28 PM
Ctrl-Esc not good enough for ya, eh? :D

Yes, but you can't use the WIN+E to get explorer, WIN+M to minimise, WIN+F to search and so forth :)

chuckcmagee
February 16th, 2007, 02:25 PM
Wow, I didn't know any of those win+ key combos. Guess I won't learn them either as win key missing on about 1/2 of my machines.

Vlad
February 16th, 2007, 04:20 PM
I prefer the old way of doing things. I *gasp* right click the task bar to minimize all at once and or *shocking* just use the start menu. :o

mikey99
February 16th, 2007, 05:03 PM
I have a working Northgate Omnikey 102 I purchased back in 1990 or so.
I believe I paid around $150 for this keyboard. I recall at the time
the IBM AT keyboard was also highly rated, but were more expensive
at around $200.

I have enough IBM Model M's to last my lifetime. Everytime I see
one of these laying around, be it at the flea market, goodwill store,
or garbage can, I grab it. Heck I'd probably even dumpster dive if
I knew there was a Model M buried in there !

Druid6900
February 16th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Well, even though I have a whole box of M keyboards around (the other box went, one at a time, on to e-bay), I pretty much use whatever keyboard happens to be laying around on the floor close at hand.

Is the M really worth listening to my desk creak under it's weight? :-)

Vlad
February 16th, 2007, 08:32 PM
I've typed a lot, some stuff around 44 pages. I'd rather use an IBM Model M over anything else.

Bill_Loguidice
February 17th, 2007, 04:34 AM
While I've logged my fastest typing times on Model M-class keyboards, I too use whatever is at hand. Ideally, I'd like a Model M-class construction in a wireless natural/ergonomic keyboard, since that's the type I favor for comfort. It's not going to happen, of course, but that would be on my keyboard wish list. Of course I'm not sure if I could quite get used to the noise again, but it would certainly be cool for a short period of time at least...