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Postal Patron
March 24th, 2004, 04:22 AM
I'd like to backup some recently acquired Commodore disks in an easy fashion, and not have to do single floppy copying. Even though I have an EPYX FastDisk (I believe it's called) cartridge to facilitate disk commands, the only easy way to copy from device 8 to 10 is to write my own BASIC program, right? The only utilities on the Commodore are for single disk copying, right? Is there a utility to copy a disk from device 8 to 10? Thanks

vic user
March 24th, 2004, 05:31 AM
I am sure there has to be one.

Have you checked the files that come on the '1541 test / diagnostics' disk?
I vaguely remember a disk copying program on there, written by Jim Butterfield I think. It's for the commodore 64, so I didn't bother looking at it :)

You may also want to post your question on alt.comp.sys.cbm newsgroup.

I am sure you would have plenty of replies!

Chris

joecommodore
March 24th, 2004, 06:21 PM
I'd like to backup some recently acquired Commodore disks in an easy fashion, and not have to do single floppy copying. Even though I have an EPYX FastDisk (I believe it's called) cartridge to facilitate disk commands, the only easy way to copy from device 8 to 10 is to write my own BASIC program, right? The only utilities on the Commodore are for single disk copying, right? Is there a utility to copy a disk from device 8 to 10? Thanks

If you just bought a bunch of assorted disks, you might have a copier program in the batch, the most recommended ones are "Fast Hack 'Em" or "Maverick" both can use one or two drives (with one drive it takes three disk swaps to copy an entire disk). If you don't have either you probably can use google to find one.

Using a BASIC program would be extremely slow and if the disks are commercial the copy protection will foil your efforts.

Make sure you are copying to Single or Double Sided Single or Double Density Disks (SS/SD, SS/DD, DS/SD, or DS/DD) the newer HD disks are NOT designed to work on the older 1541 drives and you would find your copies had failed.

Larry

Kaptain Skitzo
December 12th, 2004, 10:08 AM
I hate Bumping an old thread....but I need to ask...

Why won't the HD disks work? I've never tried to use any, but I recently came into posession of some. I figured they'd be just as reliable(if not more so) than the DS/DD.

joecommodore
December 12th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Why won't the HD disks work? I've never tried to use any, but I recently came into posession of some. I figured they'd be just as reliable(if not more so) than the DS/DD.

The iron particle density is higher on the HD disks, it's like using a chrome cassette tape on a stnadard recorder, it may work but the sound is bad. The 1541/71/81 doesn't put out enough juice to record on the denser meterials sufficiently, it was designed for less dense magetic coating.

Also the "quad density" 8050, 8250, SFD1001s, also are better with DS/DD disks, as quad density isn't as dense as HD disks either.

Larry

carlsson
December 13th, 2004, 04:07 AM
I keep forgetting every time I ask.. is "quad density" the same as 96 tpi DD (and "double density" would be 48 tpi DD) ? I'm well aware how HD disks don't work so well, but I haven't had much experience with systems using formats between "360K" and "1.2MB".

Terry Yager
December 13th, 2004, 04:47 AM
Yes, usually. The 96-tpi drives used dd media, for a formatted capacity of around 800Kb (double-sided).

--T

barryp
December 13th, 2004, 04:25 PM
I keep forgetting every time I ask.. is "quad density" the same as 96 tpi DD (and "double density" would be 48 tpi DD)?


"Quad density" is a bad term, since the density is the same, only the number of tracks differs.

carlsson
December 14th, 2004, 07:31 AM
Just what I thought. For the record, I have less than a handful of 96 tpi DD disks, formatted in the single 15xx density, and they seem to work as good as a 48 tpi disk would. IIUC, the HD disks also are 96 tpi but with a greater density, thus allowing ~70% more storage capacity over the older format?

In this middle of this page, there seems to be a reasonable summary:

http://www.swtpc.com/knowledgebase/kbpage1.htm

I have a device to cut an extra write protect notch, but I can't remember ever seeing an index hole cutter, as suggested by the web page. Probably those systems which took advantage of the index hole already delieved double sided disk drives from the beginning, so flipping disks was only common among Commodore, Apple and maybe Atari users?

barryp
December 14th, 2004, 05:24 PM
Just what I thought. For the record, I have less than a handful of 96 tpi DD disks, formatted in the single 15xx density, and they seem to work as good as a 48 tpi disk would. IIUC, the HD disks also are 96 tpi but with a greater density, thus allowing ~70% more storage capacity over the older format?

True. My experience is that a 1.2MB diskette can NEVER be used in a 360KB drive.

I have a few 720KB 5" diskettes and a zillion 360KB 5" diskettes, I've seen no difference in them at all.


In this middle of this page, there seems to be a reasonable summary:

http://www.swtpc.com/knowledgebase/kbpage1.htm

I have a device to cut an extra write protect notch, but I can't remember ever seeing an index hole cutter, as suggested by the web page. Probably those systems which took advantage of the index hole already delieved double sided disk drives from the beginning, so flipping disks was only common among Commodore, Apple and maybe Atari users?

I think you are correct that Atari computers also don't use/need the index hole. I have had a few "flippies" which had the extra write-protect notch and added index hole. I have made some, in fact I still have a punch that cuts the square write-protect notch but used an ordinary paper punch for the extra index hole. That's a little tricky, you have to make TWO punches.

I've not used flippies, don't like the reverse rotation idea, and diskettes weren't that expensive.

carlsson
December 14th, 2004, 11:14 PM
Yes, first you need to punch through the outer jacket, then a small hole on the magnetic media too. On the subject of flippies, it is said that dirt particles collecting in the dust filter may "spring loose" if you run the disk in the other direction. While I understand the point, I can't blame any of my disks to have gone bad due to that.

I can't recall the US pricing, but over here in Sweden, branded 5.25" DSDD 48tpi cost between $4 (1984) and $2 (1989) each which was not exactly cheap for a kid/student. Maybe you could get noname disks cheaper, but I never got any opportunity to order noname in the 5.25" era, only 3.5" DD once.

Amiga4k
January 16th, 2005, 02:20 PM
What your talking about is Uni-copy.

It copies selected files using 2 drives, ie 8-9,8-10,8-11.

Whole disk bulk copying, (no-selection) can be rapidly done with any of the Hack'em, Copy-II, or Maverick copy programs with 2 drives.