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Erik
May 16th, 2003, 09:45 PM
I'm just curious how most people find most of their stuff. I know that there are many schools of thought on how best to build or maintain a collection. Some people swear by eBay, for instance, other swear at it.

Some people seem to have luck with yard sales, estate sales and the like, others never find anything.

Goodwill and similar places yield up some interesting systems for some people and others can go to a dozen stores and not even find a keyboard.

Salvage yards can be a great place, especially for "bigger" gear, but you often need to have a relationship with the owner to get access.

So where do you find most of your stuff?

Erik

CP/M User
May 18th, 2003, 12:27 AM
"Erik" wrote in message:

> I'm just curious how most people find most of their stuff.
> I know that there are many schools of thought on how
> best to build or maintain a collection. Some people swear
> by eBay, for instance, other swear at it.

I've heard bad things about eBay, so I stear well away from
it.

> Some people seem to have luck with yard sales, estate
> sales and the like, others never find anything.

I used to purchase stuff for my IBM compatables (like 386s,
486s) from a place which refurbish the hardware & sell it
(which has a warranty with it). But since lots of people have
thrown out those computers they are throwing out their old
Pentiums instead, so that's what they do. On the other side
of Melbourne there was a company over there which takes
old computer hardware & turn it into something else (non
computer related) which sickens me.

> Goodwill and similar places yield up some interesting
> systems for some people and others can go to a dozen
> stores and not even find a keyboard.

People I've known have just given me their computers
because it's too slow for them. Most of the time, I find
those systems have Windows installed on them. If
Windows isn't maintained properly it does that to a
computer. But I use DOS/CP/M-86 most of the time &
they don't need maintenance. I'm not sure if you'd
call that Goodwill or not.

> Salvage yards can be a great place, especially for
> "bigger" gear, but you often need to have a
> relationship with the owner to get access.

One lady I occasionally talk too has told me her
story about how she found a computer in the tip
(or garbadge disposal - depending on where you
come from) & simply got working bits & pieces from
it, if not a complete working computer! :-)

> So where do you find most of your stuff?

Most of my stuff (IBM based computers) has come
from friends/relatives, even when I was a college
learning about computers, they were giving away
386s! :-) But that's past.

Cheers.

jd
May 18th, 2003, 12:59 AM
I have obtained my computers from a number of sources:

1). EBay - Australia, US and UK (over 100 purchases with only 1 bad experience - the Melbourne Parcel Office burnt down with my package inside!);

2). UseNet (primarily aus.computers.mac);

3). Australian Trading Post (second hand trading newpaper);

4). Contacts in Apple User Society of Melbourne (I used to be their webmaster);

5). Apple Australia (I've got their decommissioned FTP server coming my way);

6). Personal contacts in the second hand computer industry;

7). Surfing the various second hand computer retailer websites (AU and US based);

Jon Jarmon
May 22nd, 2003, 09:57 PM
I used to be able to find most of my vintage computer equipment that I did not already originally own from the Goodwill and St.Vincent de Paul
Thrift stores.However lately in my area they consider old computer moniters or computers that have monitors built in to be hazardous waste.
It costs $15 to dispose of each moniter so the thift stores refuse to accept
old monitors.How sad to think that the thrift stores would not accept an original LISA 1 or 2 or the compact Macintosh computers to be turned in.
Now a lot of these classic systems will end up in the garbage dump.

CP/M User
May 30th, 2003, 06:29 PM
"Jon Jarmon" wrote in message:

> I used to be able to find most of my vintage computer equipment
> that I did not already originally own from the Goodwill and
> St.Vincent de Paul Thrift stores.However lately in my area they
> consider old computer moniters or computers that have monitors
> built in to be hazardous waste.

This is shocking.

> It costs $15 to dispose of each moniter so the thift stores refuse
> to accept old monitors.How sad to think that the thrift stores would
> not accept an original LISA 1 or 2 or the compact Macintosh
> computers to be turned in.

When will people understand. Obtaining a vintage computer is a
privalege. Sadily, I just don't have the room to collect every
vintage computer. Lots of people simply don't understand the
value they create when they chuck out an ol' computer. I'm
not saying this in terms of profit, I'm saying this in terms of
interest from people who want those machines. They might
even be doomed to extinction. Sadily, Man has the right to
say what he creates, he can destroy & even on occasions he
has done more than that. But we're interested.

> Now a lot of these classic systems will end up in the garbage dump.

Erik, maybe you should go down to the current users of their
Pentium 4s & say it is not okay to chuck a classic system out
to the garbadge dump. It just annoys me to be reading this.

Cheers.

CP/M User
May 30th, 2003, 06:38 PM
"jd" wrote in message:

Okay, these are the things I've done to look for a Jupiter Ace:

> I have obtained my computers from a number of sources:

> 1). EBay - Australia, US and UK (over 100 purchases with
> only 1 bad experience - the Melbourne Parcel Office burnt
> down with my package inside!);

Didn't see any here (Aust or the UK).

> 2). UseNet (primarily aus.computers.mac);

Is there an aus.computers.misc?

> 3). Australian Trading Post (second hand trading newpaper);

Yes, not a vintage computer to be seen here.

> 4). Contacts in Apple User Society of Melbourne (I used to be
> their webmaster);

Jupiter Cantab went bust 20 years ago! :-(

> 5). Apple Australia (I've got their decommissioned FTP server
> coming my way);

Unfortunately, since they went bust 20 years ago there is
no Jupiter Cantab of Australia.

> 6). Personal contacts in the second hand computer industry;

The only places I've seen deal with the older side to the IBM.
Is there any place in Melbourne which deals with ol' 8bit
computers in general?

> 7). Surfing the various second hand computer retailer websites
> (AU and US based);

Do you know which ones?

Hope my questions aren't too difficult.

Cheers.

Jon Jarmon
May 30th, 2003, 07:02 PM
Hi CP/M user glad that you are up posting again.
Yes it's very sad that the thrift stores won't carry any more of this old stuff.Imagine if a LISA1 est worth up to as much as $10,000(if it has all the software,manuals,box,in perfect shape etc.)shows up at a thrift store they will refuse to accept it.Weird isn't it.I remember just last year getting all sorts of cool really old macintosh stuff and fixing it.

It makes me very mad too CP/M user.People are so wastefull.
I guess that is one reason why I had to save some classic computers from the dump and oblivion.They are disappearing over the passage of time.Maybe we collectors can keep some of these historical artifacts intact.

I know that 20 or 30 years from now a lot of people will stare at ancient personal computers in amazement.

Back in 1977 I bought a Model 366 Rickenbacker Guitar for $450.
No one wanted this guitar because it was the disco era and this guitar was a 1969 Psychedelic era throwback(Out of style).Today my Guitar(only 30 made) is worth 3 times the value of my house.It's in a VERY safe remote locked area and is quite insured.

Who knows maybe vintage computers might have a enormous worth in 20 or 30 years (Certain models already do).

CP/M User
May 30th, 2003, 07:55 PM
"Jon Jarmon" wrote in message:

Hi Jon,

> Hi CP/M user glad that you are up posting again.

Was I absent? Sorry if I've responded so long to this,
I thought I already had.

> Yes it's very sad that the thrift stores won't carry any more
> of this old stuff.Imagine if a LISA1 est worth up to as much
> as $10,000(if it has all the software,manuals,box,in perfect
> shape etc.)shows up at a thrift store they will refuse to
> accept it.Weird isn't it.I remember just last year getting all
> sorts of cool really old macintosh stuff and fixing it.

Someone asked me if I'd been living on Mars, when I start
talking about this stuff to them. I just don't get it how a
store see's something as a piece of junk & assumes it's
of value to no-one. We Care for this.

If more LISA 1s that are thrown out then it will be back to
it's original asking price ($10,000!).

I fear that if I do track down a Jupiter Ace for sale that it
maybe expensive. Unless, it's someone who's kept it in
their attic for 20 years & knows nothing about the machine
may I get it cheap. This computer would have been it's
cheapest when it came out in 1983, now it's probably
50-100 times that value. Anyone with one of these may
want $500-$1000 Aussie dollars for it. It would want to
come with more than just the computer at that price.

> It makes me very mad too CP/M user.People are so
> wastefull. I guess that is one reason why I had to save
> some classic computers from the dump and oblivion.They
> are disappearing over the passage of time.Maybe we
> collectors can keep some of these historical artifacts
> intact.

Setting up a vintage computer shop on the Internet might be
the best way to go. The only complication would be to ship
the computers (which is costly), but converting an abandoned
Milk Bar into a vintage computer shop may not last. I can
aprieciate people here locally who have an interest like me
with this stuff, but it's the vintage technology which is drying up.

> I know that 20 or 30 years from now a lot of people
> will stare at ancient personal computers in amazement.

We'll here's hoping. I might sound a tad bias at the moment,
but I just hope I don't aquire a taste for Rare Pentium 4
IBMs with Windows XP! :-)

> Back in 1977 I bought a Model 366 Rickenbacker Guitar
> for $450. No one wanted this guitar because it was the
> disco era and this guitar was a 1969 Psychedelic era
> throwback(Out of style).Today my Guitar(only 30 made)
> is worth 3 times the value of my house.It's in a VERY
> safe remote locked area and is quite insured.

Well. I know The Byrds Jim (now Roger) McGuinn used a
Rickenbacker on those early Albums, is that the same one?

If it were his Rickenbacker it might even have more value.
Maybe try & get him to AutoGraph it. No, I don't blame you
I wouldn't take it out of the house or the Safe! :-)

Funnily enough, I think '70s Disco has dated more than
music from a Rickenbacker! :-)

> Who knows maybe vintage computers might have a
> enormous worth in 20 or 30 years (Certain models
> already do).

Well yeah! :-)

Cheers.

Jon Jarmon
May 30th, 2003, 08:29 PM
Hi CP/M User I think I've seen the Byrds with a rickenbacker model 366.
It was a 6 string electric with a psychedelic swirl semi-transparent front with a 3 color built in light show.The Guitar itself was made out of bakelite.
I've had a Rick 12 string and a 6 string model 1958 320 Rickenbacker like John Lennons.I only have the 366 now.

I would think that it would be wierd if a Pentium 4 monster would become a collectors item but who knows maybe 40 years from now it might be.
I haven't even upgraded to the Pentium 4 yet.Maybe later this year I'll have one.I did buy a ATI 9700 Pro video card for $400 though.

CP/M User
May 30th, 2003, 11:00 PM
"Jon Jarmon" wrote in message:

> Hi CP/M User I think I've seen the Byrds with a rickenbacker
> model 366. It was a 6 string electric with a psychedelic swirl
> semi-transparent front with a 3 color built in light show.The
> Guitar itself was made out of bakelite.
> I've had a Rick 12 string and a 6 string model 1958 320
> Rickenbacker like John Lennons.I only have the 366 now.

According to my Albums Jim (who changed his name to
Roger!) played a 12 string Rickenbacker. If I'm thinking of
the right Beatles song ('Something') the Guitar in that sounds
different.

> I would think that it would be wierd if a Pentium 4 monster
> would become a collectors item but who knows maybe 40
> years from now it might be.

Hope not. If we take a step back 20 years & look now &
machines like PCs/XTs & PCJrs they are quite a find to
find. Sadily, they don't quite have the same impact on
me as a Jup Ace would. But incidently, I do have an XT
& would rather have one of those than a 286! :-)

> I haven't even upgraded to the Pentium 4 yet.Maybe later this
> year I'll have one.I did buy a ATI 9700 Pro video card for $400
> though.

I just hanging on with my Pentium. The others might say
that I need to upgrade, but this upgrading business drives
me up the wall!

Maybe when I have the cash to splurge I'll get a iMac
instead! :-)

Cheers.

donut
June 20th, 2003, 12:20 AM
I'm not sure there will ever be the kind of interest in vintage computers that there is in, say antique radios. Why? Because they became obsolete. My antique radios are still just as usable today as when they were built. What can you do with an XT, for example, except run the priimitive applicatiions that it was designed to run?

I think our feeling for these old machines is more tied up with our feeling for what we were doing when they were all we had to use. The early computer era was a wonderful time for the do it yourselfer. Writing your own programs, exchanging ideas via BBS's, getting online for the first time. What a thrill it was to watch a 300 baud modem actually connect with and exchange information with someone else's computer. This is all stuff we take for granted now. It was like the very early days of radio, with amateurs using primitive spark gap transmitters and calling "CQ" never knowing just who might hear and respond.

The fact that computers become obsolete so quickly keeps people from hanging on to them, like they did Grandma's radio. Thrift and second hand stores won't take them any more. Locally, all the commercial repairers and builders have discarded all their old stuff. If it doesn't fit a Pentium or later, forget it.

I rescued a Compaq 286 last summer. This machine is built like a tank. It must have been a $1000 machine in it's day, which was all too short. I installed Windows 3.0 on it, and use it to play all my old DOS games that run way too fast on the Pentium. However, that's about all it can do.

I saw a novel use for an old XT case recently - someone had built a homebrew shortwave radio in it. The dial and controls were in the floppy drive bay. It even still had the IBM medal on it.

CP/M User
June 20th, 2003, 02:53 AM
"donut" wrote in message:

> I'm not sure there will ever be the kind of
> interest in vintage computers that there is
> in, say antique radios. Why? Because they
> became obsolete. My antique radios are
> still just as usable today as when they were
> built. What can you do with an XT, for
> example, except run the priimitive
> applicatiions that it was designed to run?

Okay, well let me put it to you this way:

I'm not sure there will ever be the kind of
interest in antique radios that there is in,
say vintage computers. Why? Because they
became obsolete. My vintage computer are
just as usable today as when they were built.
What can you do with an antique raio, for
example, except listen to static when there
are no AM stations around.

This may not apply now, but how about 10-20
years or 50 years from now. The antique
radio will be useless when the AM station
pulls the plug! :-)

For us vintage computers lovers there is what
exists in the past, but also in the future
people could be writing programs for their own
computers. We also have the tools for writing
programs & through a little invension called
the internet, we can interact with others from
a community of computer users (regardless
of machine).

Obsolete is such a standard term when it
comes to your average IBM bozo who
believes that a machine will never be fast
enough for their needs. The XT can be a
nice simple machine (which is fair enough),
but the community it's outlasted it's
usefulliness. The problem there lies in that
are no groups of people dedicating their
programming to the XT. If there were, then
perhaps we could see what it's capable of
doing. You must remember that ideas for
programs back to 1990 were pretty
standard.

> I think our feeling for these old machines
> is more tied up with our feeling for what
> we were doing when they were all we
> had to use. The early computer era was
> a wonderful time for the do it yourselfer.
> Writing your own programs, exchanging
> ideas via BBS's, getting online for the
> first time. What a thrill it was to watch a
> 300 baud modem actually connect with
> and exchange information with someone
> else's computer. This is all stuff we take
> for granted now. It was like the very
> early days of radio, with amateurs using
> primitive spark gap transmitters and
> calling "CQ" never knowing just who
> might hear and respond.

I look at my vintage computer an Amstrad
CPC6128 & think, why hasn't anyone really
done something impressive for it in CP/M.

I mean I haven't seen anyone converted
any BASIC type-ins to Turbo Pascal under
CP/M. When the machine was in full swing
with commercial games & software, some
really good Word processors & languages
made their way to CP/M, but CP/M was
critised mainly due to the way they used
it (not in the approate manner). Most
people complained that BASIC was slow
& that they wished a compiled language
(or a compiled BASIC). Turbo Pascal was
not once mentioned as an alternative to
it's BASIC (in ROM). It was either
Assembly or stick with what you have.

Naturally, information relating to
improving Turbo Pascal in CP/M (so that
it's more BASIC like), is something of an
amazement. The magazines clearly had
no knowledge about it. For the first time
I have demonstrated the use of
Firmware instructions under CP/Ms Turbo
Pascal.

> The fact that computers become obsolete
> so quickly keeps people from hanging on
> to them, like they did Grandma's radio.

Not me. Though machines like the Jupiter
Ace are in a sense in danger of extinction
because dominance of other machines
running BASIC. What is you views of this?

For just about every person who
remembers this machine in the newsgroups
I've posted, they have expressed some
interest towards it.

It's the interest groups which have made
me kept my machine, but I'm sure I would
have still had an Amstrad even if I was
on my own. Some of the games I have for
it have given me hours of pleasure & are
still great to play.

> Thrift and second hand stores won't take
> them any more. Locally, all the
> commercial repairers and builders have
> discarded all their old stuff. If it doesn't
> fit a Pentium or later, forget it.

Even if a Thrift or second hand stores don't
want them, you could also turn to the
internet. You'd probably find plenty of
interest there.

> I rescued a Compaq 286 last summer. This
> machine is built like a tank. It must have
> been a $1000 machine in it's day, which
> was all too short. I installed Windows 3.0
> on it, and use it to play all my old DOS
> games that run way too fast on the Pentium.
> However, that's about all it can do.

What? Get rid of Windows 3.0, I've only seen
it run like an absolute joke on a 286. GEM
is far better. You should also check out:
http://members.cox.net/dos/index.htm
http://www.fdisk.com/
Ol' DOS games is GameHippo:
http://gamehippo.com/
For programming moonrock is interesting
BASIC type compiled language:
http://www.rowan.sensation.net.au/moonrock.html

Don't know if this page is still active, but it did have
some interesting programming stuff in there as
well:
http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/qed/dos.html

> I saw a novel use for an old XT case recently -
> someone had built a homebrew shortwave radio in
> it. The dial and controls were in the floppy drive
> bay. It even still had the IBM medal on it.

I did something interesting with my XT a couple of
years ago, I hooked up my 386 laptop to my
XT (desktop) & made a small serial cable network.
Unfortunately the baud speed rate couldn't quite
match the speed of the XTs, but since the HD was
doggy it's a good solution. When I get enough
room, I'll connect it to my other 386 which has a
proper serial connector on it (my laptop only has
a 9 pin)! ;-)

Cheers.

denim
June 20th, 2003, 09:27 AM
I checked "other", but I probably should have checked "school". I've been known to pick up old equipment at a university in Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA. Got a bunch of PDP-11 machines there, but ended up abandoning them many years ago. :oops: Also got an HP-85 there, ditto. Or was that from the Boston Computer Society? I don't remember.

At this point, I'm mainly looking for an IBM 1130 or peripheral equipment. These popular computers have become very tough to find. :(

donut
June 20th, 2003, 12:24 PM
>>>>What? Get rid of Windows 3.0, I've only seen it run like an absolute joke on a 286.<<<<

I only run 3.0 on it for the nostalgia value of seeing the old Windows GUI. You don't need Windows to run DOS games. It is kind of nice to create an icon for each game, and point and click to start it.

And, Windows 3.0 runs just great on this 286.

CP/M User
June 20th, 2003, 10:43 PM
"donut" wrote in message:

>>What? Get rid of Windows 3.0, I've only seen it run
>> like an absolute joke on a 286.

> I only run 3.0 on it for the nostalgia value of seeing
> the old Windows GUI. You don't need Windows to run
> DOS games. It is kind of nice to create an icon for
> each game, and point and click to start it.

Naturally, you don't need Windows to run DOS games.
However, It also tends to slow them down inside a
DOS box. What you need is a Menu system which
allows easy running in DOS. Sure it's nice to have a
little icon for those things & display them as need be,
but I'd rather have everything running nice &
smoothly.

> And, Windows 3.0 runs just great on this 286.

Even if it's a bit limited! :-)

Cheers.

Classicsat
July 17th, 2003, 08:53 AM
I used to scour thrift shops and yard sales/flea markets. I used to know of a vintage computer shop, this was in 1990 or so, when I lived in a medium sized city.

Right now, I don't actively look for vintage computers, they usually tend to
fall in my lap.

CP/M User
August 3rd, 2003, 02:56 AM
"Classicsat" wrote in message:

> Right now, I don't actively look for vintage computers, they
> usually tend to fall in my lap.

Strewth, that's handy to have.

Cheers.

CaptainCommodore
August 31st, 2003, 11:48 PM
eBay is a great place to get great vintage computers, but be warned, these people often ask a little more than its value, even in the collectors eyes. A Lisa III without bootdisks is currently going for 80 bucks. Great computer, but no boot disks. Hmmm.

But if you are looking to find great deals, go to yard sales. People will pay you to take what they think is obsolete garbage. Ha ha ha, always a good steal out there. Schools also look to make atleast some pocket change out of their old computers, but they have stickers and finger prints all over them, and loaded with forgoten passwords. But if you are looking for a nice old hacking job, go for it.

My final thought: look at eBay first. Most people look up a value and try to stretch it to the very top, but there are some good deals there. (shipping though! Heavy! ouch!)

CP/M User
September 3rd, 2003, 02:45 PM
"CaptainCommodore" wrote:

> But if you are looking to find great deals,
> go to yard sales. People will pay you to
> take what they think is obsolete garbage.
> Ha ha ha, always a good steal out there.
> Schools also look to make atleast some
> pocket change out of their old computers,
> but they have stickers and finger prints
> all over them, and loaded with forgoten
> passwords. But if you are looking for a
> nice old hacking job, go for it.

I'd be careful getting computers from schools,
those little brats treat those machines like there's
no tomorrow. My schools got rid of their ol' 8bit
computers while I was in school (which was quite
some time ago). With some countries it may depend,
depending on what sort of country you're in.

> My final thought: look at eBay first. Most people
> look up a value and try to stretch it to the
> very top, but there are some good deals there.
> (shipping though! Heavy! ouch!)

eBay can be nasty since you put in your bid &
someone can easily raise it, but that's what actions
are all about! ;-)

Just one last though: Captain Commodore have you
been into Commodores for quite some time?

Cheers.

Unknown_K
September 21st, 2003, 12:31 AM
EBAY, newsgroups, and swaplists seem to be the best places for the equipment and programs I look for.

Flee markets in my area tend to have broken junk, pawn shops want way too much money for items, and want adds in the paper have machines that are way over priced. Unless some older packrat in your area kicked the bucket you wont find many vintage machines at garage sales since everybody thinks a machine that cant run modern apps is junk.

While I have modern machines I like messing around with the older equipment I seen at the store and didnt have the cash to buy when I was young. An old mac IIfx cost $10,000 back in 1990 but you can get one for $10 now and check it out. Alot of people just give away the old software packages for older machines. Older software running on older hardware of the same vintage is actually quite usable (assuming you have a few upgrades like memory and maybe a larger HD then the stock unit).

Another cool thing about older machines is that you can find pretty much the whole game library on the net for download. I think just about every commodore, atari, apple game released can be found on the net. There are utilities that allow you to put those programs back on disk so you can enjoy them on the original hardware. I like exploring the old classic games (especially when the newer games are boring the hell out of me). Back in the 80's and 90's programmers spent alot of time on single person gameplay unlike today when most of the millions spent on a software title is in graphics , multiplayer, and sound and not gameplay.

And as far as the old monitors go, they ARE toxic waste. Alot of the older equipment gets shipped over to asia where illiterate people break them apart for scrap metal and chips that can be reused. The leftover stuff just gets dumped on the ground leaking all kinds of carcinogens and heavy metals that polute the environment.

CP/M User
October 30th, 2003, 12:21 AM
"Unknown_K" wote in message:

>EBAY, newsgroups, and swaplists seem to be the
>best places for the equipment and programs I look
>for.

>Flee markets in my area tend to have broken junk,
>pawn shops want way too much money for items,
>and want adds in the paper have machines that are
>way over priced. Unless some older packrat in your
>area kicked the bucket you wont find many vintage
>machines at garage sales since everybody thinks a
>machine that cant run modern apps is junk.

>While I have modern machines I like messing
>around with the older equipment I seen at the store
>and didnt have the cash to buy when I was young.
>An old mac IIfx cost $10,000 back in 1990 but you
>can get one for $10 now and check it out. Alot of
>people just give away the old software packages
>for older machines. Older software running on
>older hardware of the same vintage is actually quite
>usable (assuming you have a few upgrades like
>memory and maybe a larger HD then the stock unit).

>Another cool thing about older machines is that you
>can find pretty much the whole game library on the
>net for download. I think just about every
>commodore, atari, apple game released can be found
>on the net. There are utilities that allow you to put
>those programs back n disk so you can enjoy them
>on the original hardware. I like exploring the old
>classic games (especially when the newer games are
>boring the hell out of me). Back in the 80's and 90's
>programmers spent alot of time on single person
>gameplay unlike today when most of the millions
>spent on a software title is in graphics , multiplayer,
>and sound and not gameplay.

>And as far as the old monitors go, they ARE toxic
>waste. Alot of the older equipment gets shipped
>over to asia where illiterate people break them apart
>for scrap metal and chips that can be reused. The
>leftover stuff just gets dumped on the ground
>leaking all kinds of carcinogens and heavy metals
>that polute the environment.

You kinda make it sound like that old stuff is a waste of
time, but you haven't really stated that, or anything which
has a definite sound about it. I'd rather go for the ol'
games (which you probably have already gathered), than
some game which entails a 10 minute movie describing
your mission, or some adventure game which needs 2
keyboards to play! ;-)

Some ol' games I just find borning (e.g. Adventures or
Text Adventures) & a waste of time to me, but if others
wish to enjoy them, then so be it.

On the subject of hardware, I just wasn't sure if you
were referning to useless ol' hardware or if you were
announcing to the vintage computer world that you
'should' update.

On the subject of the environment, I do believe that
dumping toxic materials (e.g. Monitors) into the ground
is a definite bad thing, but until we can fire it off into
outer Space what do we do with it? That's assuming
that it's okay to fire things outer space, wouldn't it?

Cheers.

Unknown_K
October 30th, 2003, 05:13 AM
You kinda make it sound like that old stuff is a waste of
time, but you haven't really stated that, or anything which
has a definite sound about it. I'd rather go for the ol'
games (which you probably have already gathered), than
some game which entails a 10 minute movie describing
your mission, or some adventure game which needs 2
keyboards to play! ;-)

Some ol' games I just find borning (e.g. Adventures or
Text Adventures) & a waste of time to me, but if others
wish to enjoy them, then so be it.

On the subject of hardware, I just wasn't sure if you
were referning to useless ol' hardware or if you were
announcing to the vintage computer world that you
'should' update.

On the subject of the environment, I do believe that
dumping toxic materials (e.g. Monitors) into the ground
is a definite bad thing, but until we can fire it off into
outer Space what do we do with it? That's assuming
that it's okay to fire things outer space, wouldn't it?

Cheers.

I dont understand what you mean. I stated I like using old hardware and where I find most of mine. For anybody but a collector or retro gamer (like me and people here) old hardware is junk to be disposed of, thats why it gets sent to china for disposal. I firmly believe in playing the old games on the vintage hardware it was designed for whenever possible. I never said anything about making people with vintage machines upgrade. If you run vintage software on vintage machines the speed isnt too bad.

As far as the environment everything in a computer can be reclaimed and reused in some way shape or form. You just have to build the plants to do it and it costs money. Its like the old days when people threw their garbage out into the street. After years of people getting sick and dying somebody figured out it would be better for everybody to pitch in and send the trash to a dump.

CP/M User
December 22nd, 2003, 12:49 AM
"Unknown_K" wrote in message:

>> You kinda make it sound like that old stuff is a waste of
>> time, but you haven't really stated that, or anything which
>> has a definite sound about it. I'd rather go for the ol'
>> games (which you probably have already gathered), than
>> some game which entails a 10 minute movie describing
>> your mission, or some adventure game which needs 2
>> keyboards to play! ;-)

>> Some ol' games I just find borning (e.g. Adventures or
>> Text Adventures) & a waste of time to me, but if others
>> wish to enjoy them, then so be it.

>> On the subject of hardware, I just wasn't sure if you
>> were referning to useless ol' hardware or if you were
>> announcing to the vintage computer world that you
>> 'should' update.

>> On the subject of the environment, I do believe that
>> dumping toxic materials (e.g. Monitors) into the ground
>> is a definite bad thing, but until we can fire it off into
>> outer Space what do we do with it? That's assuming
>> that it's okay to fire things outer space, wouldn't it?

> I dont understand what you mean. I stated I like using
> old hardware and where I find most of mine. For
> anybody but a collector or retro gamer (like me and
> people here) old hardware is junk to be disposed of,
> thats why it gets sent to china for disposal. I firmly
> believe in playing the old games on the vintage
> hardware it was designed for whenever possible. I
> never said anything about making people with vintage
> machines upgrade. If you run vintage software on
> vintage machines the speed isnt too bad.

No, no, it was just a funny feeling I had & at the time
was under the impression that you were against ol'
hardware! Sorry!! :-(

> As far as the environment everything in a computer
> can be reclaimed and reused in some way shape or
> form. You just have to build the plants to do it and
> it costs money. Its like the old days when people
> threw their garbage out into the street. After years
> of people getting sick and dying somebody figured
> out it would be better for everybody to pitch in and
> send the trash to a dump.

Oh well, I just hope we're settled! :-)

Cheers.

Classicsat
January 4th, 2004, 11:51 AM
Another thoght would be to check estate auctions, although the last ones I've been to had PCs that were between having "vintage" value, and recent modern useability.

CP/M User
January 5th, 2004, 03:50 AM
"Classicsat" wrote:

> Another thoght would be to check estate auctions,
> although the last ones I've been to had PCs that
> were between having "vintage" value, and recent
> modern useability.

Yeah, what is the current Vintage computer? An early
Pentium, any Pentium (prior to 2) or how about a
later Pentium?

Would this mean that W95 is also a Vintage Operating
something a rather?

If so, then that would make my CP/M ancient.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

vic user
January 5th, 2004, 05:23 AM
Yeah, what is the current Vintage computer? An early
Pentium, any Pentium (prior to 2) or how about a
later Pentium?

Would this mean that W95 is also a Vintage Operating
something a rather?

If so, then that would make my CP/M ancient.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Good God I hope not!

My main computer at home is a pentium 166 running win95 :)

Works fine, except that Java is not supported for win 95 :(

Chris

CP/M User
January 5th, 2004, 01:53 PM
"vic user" wrote:

>> Yeah, what is the current Vintage computer?
>> An early Pentium, any Pentium (prior to 2)
>> or how about a later Pentium?

>> Would this mean that W95 is also a Vintage
>> Operating something a rather?

>> If so, then that would make my CP/M ancient.

> Good God I hope not!

> My main computer at home is a pentium 166
> running win95 :)

Ditto!! Hey, this is a small world! ;-)

> Works fine, except that Java is not supported
> for win 95 :(

Java or Javascript?
I can get the later, although it's a bit of a joke.
Someone told me you could get Java working
as low as a 486 (it's just Windows which slows
it down!!)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

vic user
January 5th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Java or Javascript?
I can get the later, although it's a bit of a joke.
Someone told me you could get Java working
as low as a 486 (it's just Windows which slows
it down!!)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Hi CP/M user;

I don't really know. All I know is that some websites I can't access 'because I don't have JAVA enabled'

I went to get java, and it can run fine on a pentium 166 with the RAM I have as well (48 meg), it's just not supported with win 95. But God I hate win 98, ugh.

At least I migrated to Mozilla, so now I don't have so many 'Java script errors' every 3 seconds, and explorer (version 4 i think), used to hang up tons of times on certain sites.
Mozilla is really stable.

I can't believe I still use a 28.8 modem too!

It's quite a difference when I get to work, as I have access to some pretty high end stuff. Surfing the web at work (you didn't read that), goes blindingly fast.

I am considering upgrading to maybe 500 MHZ or therabouts, so I can play around with Lego Mindstorms.

One of the main things I want to do, is learn about robotics, and mindstorm is a good introduction to it.

Eventually, I want to be able to interface via the RS232 port of one of my vic 20's to a robot. It may not be sending probes to distant worlds, but having something roam around my house and send feedback to my vic would be super cool.

I have also been looking into BASIC stamps. Would be nice to porgram them via an 8 bit machine as well.

Chris

Terry Yager
January 5th, 2004, 06:37 PM
Eventually, I want to be able to interface via the RS232 port of one of my vic 20's to a robot. It may not be sending probes to distant worlds, but having something roam around my house and send feedback to my vic would be super cool.


Chris

A friend of mine has an old magazine arcticle that explains how to mod a toy truck from around 1980, called a "Big Trak", so that it may be controlled from a C=64. After years of searching, I finally found him one in a thrift store. He completed the project, then used it to chase his customers around his computer store. It's a riot! I'll see if I cn get him to scan the arcticle and send ya a copy if ya like. Dunno if it'll work with a Vic but it's something to play with, if ya cn ever find a Big Trak. (IIRC, they were made by Marx.)

--T

joecommodore
January 5th, 2004, 07:31 PM
Most of my collection comes from the thrift shops and flea markets, I've been a fan long enough I can spot goodies and recognise the rarities pretty rapidly. If you know what you are looking at and have researched potential problems you can save a lot of money (though the downside is you collect way too much stuff!)

Books and software I find more readily on eBayt some peripherals too. though, once in a while some thrift store 'gets it' and they start stocking the stuff I buy. I think a lot of the collection fun for me is the hadventure of the hunt (especially when I discover a new thrift source, and have to paw through the shelves and racks). :-)

CP/M User
January 5th, 2004, 08:05 PM
"vic user" wroet:

> I don't really know. All I know is that some
> websites I can't access 'because I don't have
> JAVA enabled'

Most like Javascript. It should be on your computer,
perhaps it's just been disabled since your computer
will run faster without it. Might want to have a look
at your options, if you want Javascript enabled.

> I went to get java, and it can run fine on a
> pentium 166 with the RAM I have as well (48
> meg), it's just not supported with win 95. But
> God I hate win 98, ugh.

I can't understand that. There must be some
Java available for Win95 as I think it's been
going since W95 has. Certainally Javascript I
have (which comes with my WWW browser)
does.

> At least I migrated to Mozilla, so now I don't
> have so many 'Java script errors' every 3
> seconds, and explorer (version 4 i think), used
> to hang up tons of times on certain sites.
> Mozilla is really stable.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Mozilla
to be sure if Java comes with it or not. All I
know is it's a large download.

> I can't believe I still use a 28.8 modem too!

I have a 33.6kbps which is fine, it struggles on'
the larger sites. I also have a 14.4kbps modem
on my 386 whenever I use Arachne web browser,
in some cases it's faster! (though it worse when
I want pictures! :-)

> It's quite a difference when I get to work, as
> I have access to some pretty high end stuff.
> Surfing the web at work (you didn't read that),
> goes blindingly fast.

Always the way isn't it, until a faster machine
comes out! ;-)

> I am considering upgrading to maybe 500 MHZ
> or therabouts, so I can play around with Lego
> Mindstorms.

Really depends on if you need the extra speed.
Since most of my work is CP/M & using
emulators under DOS, I find I can get away
with the speed of the machine.

> One of the main things I want to do, is learn
> about robotics, and mindstorm is a good
> introduction to it.

Yeah, that might need a really quick machine,
although I don't know which. Unless you want
an Apple II which could do some robotics
(trouble is finding the approrate system which
comes with all that stuff).

> Eventually, I want to be able to interface via
> the RS232 port of one of my vic 20's to a
> robot. It may not be sending probes to
> distant worlds, but having something roam
> around my house and send feedback to my
> vic would be super cool.

Oh dear! :-)

> I have also been looking into BASIC stamps.
> Would be nice to porgram them via an 8 bit
> machine as well.

Now I'm lost! :-(

CP/M User.

Terry Yager
January 5th, 2004, 09:15 PM
"vic user" wroet:

> I have also been looking into BASIC stamps.
> Would be nice to porgram them via an 8 bit
> machine as well.

Now I'm lost! :-(

CP/M User.


http://www.parallax.com/

--T

vic user
January 6th, 2004, 05:08 AM
Yep Parallax! Neat microcontrollers, and pretty darn cheap too!

Also the name of a Warren Beaty film I think. Odd coincidence, considering the name of the film refers to a company name as well.

Ok, I will stop since this is getting off topic from the original message thread, and I don't want to have to give Erik extra work :)

Chris

vic user
January 6th, 2004, 05:17 AM
CP/M User.

I can't understand that. There must be some
Java available for Win95 as I think it's been
going since W95 has. Certainally Javascript I
have (which comes with my WWW browser)
does.

I am not too troubled by not having java at home. You are right, I probably have it disabled or something.

CP/M User.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Mozilla
to be sure if Java comes with it or not. All I
know is it's a large download.

well, if you ever get to try out Mozilla, i think you might like it. i think Netscape is connected with it somehow. they share way too many features and looks.

CP/M User.

Yeah, that might need a really quick machine,
although I don't know which. Unless you want
an Apple II which could do some robotics
(trouble is finding the approrate system which
comes with all that stuff).

I played around with a robot arm connected to an Apple II back in high school. All we made it do actually was type things on the keyboard, by gripping a pencil. It took us a few minutes to finally realize we should have been using the eraser end to hit the keys. Lots of pencil marks on that keyboard!

CP/M User.

Oh dear! :-)

I hope that is a good 'oh dear' about my robotic vic 20 hopes :)

Chris

CP/M User
January 6th, 2004, 06:15 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

>>> I have also been looking into BASIC stamps.
>> Would be nice to porgram them via an 8 bit
>> machine as well.

>> Now I'm lost! :-(

> http://www.parallax.com/

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User
January 6th, 2004, 06:17 PM
"vic user" wrote:

> Ok, I will stop since this is getting off topic from
> the original message thread, and I don't want to
> have to give Erik extra work :)

Why?!? We turned the Rants area into something
else! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User
January 6th, 2004, 06:30 PM
"vic user" wrote:

>> I can't understand that. There must be some
>> Java available for Win95 as I think it's been
>> going since W95 has. Certainally Javascript I
>> have (which comes with my WWW browser)
>> does.

> I am not too troubled by not having java at home.
> You are right, I probably have it disabled or
> something.

Well yeah, if it's capable of doing that.

>> Unfortunately, I don't know much about Mozilla
>> to be sure if Java comes with it or not. All I
>> know is it's a large download.

> well, if you ever get to try out Mozilla, i think you
> might like it. i think Netscape is connected with it
> somehow. they share way too many features
> and looks.

Maybe when I update to a super fast computer with
broadband, then I'll seriously consider it! :-)

>> Yeah, that might need a really quick machine,
>> although I don't know which. Unless you want
>> an Apple II which could do some robotics
>> (trouble is finding the approrate system which
>> comes with all that stuff).

> I played around with a robot arm connected to
> an Apple II back in high school. All we made it
> do actually was type things on the keyboard, by
> gripping a pencil. It took us a few minutes to
> finally realize we should have been using the
> eraser end to hit the keys. Lots of pencil marks
> on that keyboard!

Sounds neat. This reminds me, when did Plotters
go out? I always thought they were a valuable
piece of hardware, which are far superior to an
Inkjet printer, yet people are replacing them for
that.

>> Oh dear! :-)

> I hope that is a good 'oh dear' about my robotic
> vic 20 hopes :)

Well yeah, I was thinking in terms of a Vic20 being
more than capable of doing something like that to
your latest IBM. It kinda goes back to what I said
about Plotters & Inkjet printers, as I feel a Plotter
would produce a more accurate image vs an Inkjet.
However, Inkjets do vary in quality, yet it doesn't
stop it from doing what it does which is spray the
colours onto the paper, which is why I felt that a
Plotter is superior. Any thoughts on that?

But just getting back to your Vic20, yeah that was
a good Oh dear hence the smiley! :-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.