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Terry Yager
April 26th, 2004, 08:02 AM
<singing>Happy birthday to me,
Happy birthday to me,
Happy birthday to m-e-e-e-e,
Happy birthday to me!

FWIW, I'm 49 today.

--T

Erik
April 26th, 2004, 08:27 AM
HBD! :)

Have a great day!

Erik

vic user
April 26th, 2004, 08:36 AM
Born under the sign of the bull ;)

Chris

Terry Yager
April 26th, 2004, 09:35 AM
Born under the sign of the bull ;)

Chris

Yep! And I have the personality to prove it.

--T

carlsson
April 26th, 2004, 10:23 PM
Oh well. In Chinese calendar, Terry is a wood goat (yi-wei, maybe a wooden goat even?) from the 77th cycle if I understand it correctly. On the other hand, I am a wood rabbit (which I knew from before).


The Wood Goat / Sheep - loyal, bighearted, motivated by "trust", "sentimental" and considerate.
Happy birthday in retrospect.

CP/M User
April 26th, 2004, 10:35 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> FWIW, I'm 49 today.

Whatever you do, if you're working, make sure the company
doesn't fire you, when you turn 50. Make it clear you'll sue if
they do decide! But I guess the big thing to do, is see what
they're up to!

Happy Birthday!

CP/M User.

CP/M User
April 26th, 2004, 10:39 PM
"Erik" wrote:

> HBD! :)

HBD? Isn't it HB'D? Oh no, I'm thinking of Happy B'DAY! ;-)
In terms of quick & short Happy Birthdays, that has to be
the shortest I've ever seen. You can't say 'HB' cause it's
more or less the name of a Pencil! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

carlsson
April 26th, 2004, 10:42 PM
In Swedish, HB is an acronym for home-made booze, something which is illegal to do or have but a lot of people seem to get around. However, I'm sure Terry has better ways to celebrate the birthday than getting drunk on bad liquor and worry about being fired within a year. :? :shock:

CP/M User
April 27th, 2004, 01:31 AM
"carlsson" wrote:

> In Swedish, HB is an acronym for home-made booze,
> something which is illegal to do or have but a lot of
> people seem to get around. However, I'm sure Terry
> has better ways to celebrate the birthday than getting
> drunk on bad liquor and worry about being fired within
> a year. :? "shock"

Well in Australia, people get fired just for turning 50. I'm
not saying that they may neccessarily do it in America,
but in some ways Australia copies America & this maybe
one of the may. I don't know about other countries, cause
I haven't been to them, but discrimination is one of
Australia's minuses (or one of mine, since I'm a pro at
doing it at myself!)-: With me, one thing remains & that's
I'm a fussey prick who likes what I'm doing (regardless of
it being Voluntry or Paid! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

carlsson
April 27th, 2004, 03:56 AM
Fired or retired? It certainly doesn't happen by automatic over here. Maybe there is some particular type of job where you are considered not suitable at that age, but then you'd often be transferred to another position or get help to find something else.

I see now a 1998 retirement report from Australia which says that: 53% of the people above 45 years had retired from full-time work.
39% were still working, of which 90% were planning to retire (soon?).
7% never had and never intended to work.
35% of those who already had retired did before 45 years old.
97% of the retired were fully retired (not looking for a new job).
33% of those fully retired hadn't had a full-time work in the last 20 years.
The average age to retire from full-time work was 41 for women and 58 for men.
The average age to fully retire was 44 for women and 59 for men.
Of those who had retired, 22% of the males and 3% of the women retired at 65 years or above
53% of the males and 21% of the women retired at 55-64 years
17% of the males and 22% of the women retired at 45-54 years
7% of the males and 54% of the women retired at less than 45 yearsetc about reasons why they retired, source of income etc.

Wow, I suppose those numbers are very much different from here.

Terry Yager
April 27th, 2004, 04:49 AM
Wow! Sounds like a pretty suckful employment situation in Oz. Over half the (potential) workforce is retired by age 45? Hell, over here, we're just hitting our prime by that age. (I wonder what kind of support the retired folk get (from Gov't?)). Over here, we have Social Security, which helps some, but isn't really enough to live on. A lot of our senior citizens can't afford to buy the prescription drugs that they need, and still have money to pay rent, buy food, etc. It's a real problem here. (A lot of seniors end up in nursing homes and the like, where the group-situation makes it possible to get by on the Social Security check, which is simply signed over to the care facillity).

--T

carlsson
April 27th, 2004, 10:52 AM
The source from where I blatantly stole (and calculated) the number from was:

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/3dc3297faa3cb8abca2568a90013938a?OpenDocument

According to the report, the most common source of income was an age or service pension or living on the husband's income. It doesn't say how much difference (less?) it generally is in money terms, but I doubt the Australians in average would accept to live 2/3 of their life at a minimum financial level.

Terry Yager
April 27th, 2004, 11:25 AM
That shows quite a jump in the over-45 population in just a few short years. Did Australia experience a "baby-boom" at the end of WWII, like we did over here (GIs returning home from the war, etc.)? (Our baby-boomers are just starting to come of age, and they're putting quite an (over-) load on the whole system).

--T

CP/M User
April 27th, 2004, 04:11 PM
"carlsson" wrote:

> Fired or retired?

People here generally have to work 'til their at least 55,
however the Govt. is pushing for people to work 'til their
at least 70. This is because the pension is under pressure
& won't be able to support us younger generations for
when we decide to retire. By getting people to work until
they are 70, they will get more superannunation &
therefore won't be required to claim for the pension.

I've only met & heard of a couple of people who got the
sack at 50, it wasn't their choice to retire, they just
decided that they were over the hill & no longer required.

Of course, I don't know what the odds are of this
happening, cause I'm unemployed & maybe it's just a
group you see who are trying to get work (like myself).
I believe that if you're also in the public eye, then turning
50 is a BIG deal, which is what happened to one Weather
forecaster, but the Weather is just so crazy here, that it's
better done by some wacky person (e.g. A fortune
teller!), than someone who has connections with some
Beru.

> It certainly doesn't happen by automatic over here.
> Maybe there is some particular type of job where you
> are considered not suitable at that age, but then you'd
> often be transferred to another position or get help to
> find something else.

One bloke I know who got the push when he was 50
worked for the Council & then there's the example I
gave above. Another person I met was a school teacher.

<report snipped>

> Wow, I suppose those numbers are very much different
> from here.

I cannot understand that report, because it doesn't sound
clear. But then, reading it inside a text box it doesn't help!
:-(

CP/M User.

Terry Yager
April 27th, 2004, 05:07 PM
People here generally have to work 'til their at least 55,
however the Govt. is pushing for people to work 'til their
at least 70. This is because the pension is under pressure
& won't be able to support us younger generations for
when we decide to retire. By getting people to work until
they are 70, they will get more superannunation &
therefore won't be required to claim for the pension.

Well, our retirement age here is 65, but there have been a couple of bills circulated lately to move it back a couple of years, but they haven't gone anywhere with the voters. So far, nobody has had the nerve to risk thier political carreer by proposing 70 as the cut-off age. Our Social Security is supposed to be dried up by the time my generation reaches that age, tho.


I've only met & heard of a couple of people who got the
sack at 50, it wasn't their choice to retire, they just
decided that they were over the hill & no longer required.

I spent a couple of hours this afternoon trying to find some kinda statistics like carlsson found, but for our country instead. I had no luck finding such stats, but I did turn up somewhere that for the year 2000, only 16000 age-discrimination cases were filed here, which don't seem like a lot for a country the size of ours, so mebbe it isn't as widespread as you might think.


Of course, I don't know what the odds are of this
happening, cause I'm unemployed & maybe it's just a
group you see who are trying to get work (like myself).
I believe that if you're also in the public eye, then turning
50 is a BIG deal, which is what happened to one Weather
forecaster, but the Weather is just so crazy here, that it's
better done by some wacky person (e.g. A fortune
teller!), than someone who has connections with some
Beru.

Fortunately(?), I'm disabled, so I don't have to worry, unless the Veteran's Administration goes broke.


One bloke I know who got the push when he was 50
worked for the Council & then there's the example I
gave above. Another person I met was a school teacher.

Unfortunatly, teachers here usually have strong unions, and it's hard to get rid of them, no matter how old, or bad, or out-of-touch they are. Some of the teachers here are real dinosaurs! We must look at our Seniors differently here (remember, it wasn't that long ago that we re-elected a President with Alzheimer's, just because he was some old washed-out movie star).


I cannot understand that report, because it doesn't sound
clear. But then, reading it inside a text box it doesn't help!
:-(

CP/M User.

Well, you know what Benjamin Diserali said about statistics...

--T

CP/M User
April 27th, 2004, 07:57 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> People here generally have to work 'til their at least 55,
>> however the Govt. is pushing for people to work 'til their
>> at least 70. This is because the pension is under pressure
>> & won't be able to support us younger generations for
>> when we decide to retire. By getting people to work until
>> they are 70, they will get more superannunation &
>> therefore won't be required to claim for the pension.

> Well, our retirement age here is 65, but there have been
> a couple of bills circulated lately to move it back a couple
> of years, but they haven't gone anywhere with the voters.
> So far, nobody has had the nerve to risk thier political
> carreer by proposing 70 as the cut-off age. Our Social
> Security is supposed to be dried up by the time my
> generation reaches that age, tho.

Well for a long time in Australia, 65 was regarded as the
age you had to retire, but since our Prime Minister turned
65, he felt that he still wanted to do so, so he bumped
the age limit upto 70, so that he could give himself another
5 years, but generally I feel his time is up, so everyone
will probably vote him out!

I'm not sure why they cut retirement back down to 55,
because more people are taking that option. 55 is also
the age you can get to your Super without being heavily
slugged for being a couple of years behind. But generally
people say that they have had enough of work & wish to
retire then, but it sounds to be more of an excuse to
retire. Sure at the moment, you don't have to retire at
70, but later on it will encourage my generation to work
to this (since you'd get more super).

>> I've only met & heard of a couple of people who got the
>> sack at 50, it wasn't their choice to retire, they just
>> decided that they were over the hill & no longer required.

> I spent a couple of hours this afternoon trying to find
> some kinda statistics like carlsson found, but for our
> country instead. I had no luck finding such stats, but
> I did turn up somewhere that for the year 2000, only
> 16000 age-discrimination cases were filed here, which
> don't seem like a lot for a country the size of ours, so
> mebbe it isn't as widespread as you might think.

Well it mightn't be as widespread, after all I'm in the
position where I'm a majority group of people who are
looking for work, these people I've met have been via
voluntry work that I'm doing or Work for the Dole (the
program which you have to do in order to get the Dole
- this comes into effect if you've been unemployed for
6 months). For myself, I may got back to get an
education in the environment, 'cause it seems like a
good way to pursue a career in it. As a child, I grew
up in the bush, but never really learned the values of
it until I met some people who worked in the
environment.

>> Of course, I don't know what the odds are of this
>> happening, cause I'm unemployed & maybe it's just a
>> group you see who are trying to get work (like myself).
>> I believe that if you're also in the public eye, then turning
>> 50 is a BIG deal, which is what happened to one Weather
>> forecaster, but the Weather is just so crazy here, that it's
>> better done by some wacky person (e.g. A fortune
>> teller!), than someone who has connections with some
>> Beru.

> Fortunately(?), I'm disabled, so I don't have to worry,
> unless the Veteran's Administration goes broke.

Well disability is taken very seriously here, my Father had
to retire because of his Arthritis, back then you had to retire
at 65, but he got out at 61.

>> One bloke I know who got the push when he was 50
>> worked for the Council & then there's the example I
>> gave above. Another person I met was a school teacher.

> Unfortunatly, teachers here usually have "strong" unions,
> and it's hard to get rid of them, no matter how old, or
> bad, or out-of-touch they are. Some of the teachers
> here are real dinosaurs! We must look at our Seniors
> differently here (remember, it wasn't that long ago
> that we re-elected a President with Alzheimer's, just
> because he was some old washed-out movie star).

Poor Regan had Alzheimer's did he?

I was a bit young for his time, since news wasn't something
I could be bothered with as a child! :-)

>> I cannot understand that report, because it doesn't sound
>> clear. But then, reading it inside a text box it doesn't help!
>> :-(

> Well, you know what Benjamin Diserali said about statistics...

No, I'm not familiar with him? Is he free speech bloke or
something?

CP/M User.

carlsson
April 28th, 2004, 12:42 AM
The general retirement age in Sweden also is 65 years. Those who can afford or are worn out go somewhere at 60-63, or in a few cases earlier. I'm not counting those who retire due to illness or injury. There has been discussions about raising the general age to 67 or even more, but like everywhere else, the unemployment in younger generations is a big argument against making people work even longer.

Since our Oz friend had difficulty relating to the posted numbers, I wonder if the report is wrong somewhere. The statistics government had more reports to search in, but I found nothing containing the same type of numbers.

Oh by the way, if we are allowed to go into rants here, I could argue that while one of the former US presidents had Alzheimer's, the current seems to be infected by megalomania. :twisted:

CP/M User
April 28th, 2004, 02:25 AM
"carlsson" wrote:

> Since our Oz friend had difficulty relating to the
> posted numbers, I wonder if the report is wrong
> somewhere. The statistics government had more
> reports to search in, but I found nothing
> containing the same type of numbers.

Actually Carlsson, forget about the post I just posted
it's a load of garbadge. The last 4 points explain it
clearly, but the top 8 is a load of Bull Dust. I mean
who goes around working out 53% of something,
which gives 39% of that group from the 53% are
doing this. Sounds more like a stupid survey which
people just fill in silly responces to these silly
questions.

If anything, it should be a puzzle, about trying to work
out of the 53% are ladies & men. Perhaps you
stumbled across an Aussie website which was posting
the results to this or just giving you a problem to
solve. Just for some fun, I could send it to my friends
& see if they can solve it & you can do the same &
get them to figure it out! Then perhaps get the results
back & send it to the Prime Minister of Australia.
Address it to Little Johnny Howard, C/- Parlament
House, Canberra! ;-)

Terry Yager
April 28th, 2004, 04:39 AM
Well for a long time in Australia, 65 was regarded as the
age you had to retire, but since our Prime Minister turned
65, he felt that he still wanted to do so, so he bumped
the age limit upto 70, so that he could give himself another
5 years, but generally I feel his time is up, so everyone
will probably vote him out!

I'm not sure why they cut retirement back down to 55,
because more people are taking that option. 55 is also
the age you can get to your Super without being heavily
slugged for being a couple of years behind. But generally
people say that they have had enough of work & wish to
retire then, but it sounds to be more of an excuse to
retire. Sure at the moment, you don't have to retire at
70, but later on it will encourage my generation to work
to this (since you'd get more super).

We are not required to retire at 65, generally, that's just the age we become eligible for Social Security pensions, etc. A lot of people here choose to work beyond that age, if they feel up to it.


Well it mightn't be as widespread, after all I'm in the
position where I'm a majority group of people who are
looking for work, these people I've met have been via
voluntry work that I'm doing or Work for the Dole (the
program which you have to do in order to get the Dole
- this comes into effect if you've been unemployed for
6 months). For myself, I may got back to get an
education in the environment, 'cause it seems like a
good way to pursue a career in it. As a child, I grew
up in the bush, but never really learned the values of
it until I met some people who worked in the
environment.

Environmental studies seems interesting enough...


Well disability is taken very seriously here, my Father had
to retire because of his Arthritis, back then you had to retire
at 65, but he got out at 61.

Yes, a lot of people here become eligible for early retirement du to disability, but often in such cases they do not recieve thier full pension, just a percentage of what they would have got had they worked to the full age.


Poor Regan had Alzheimer's did he?

Yes, but of course they never admitted it while he was still sitting in office. The signs were there right along, for anyone who cared to take notice, but he had a staff (and wife) that was pretty good at covering for him.


I was a bit young for his time, since news wasn't something
I could be bothered with as a child! :-)

Really? I have some trouble placing you age-wise. I tend to think of you as being about my age or mebbe a little older, because of the wisdom that you seem to possess. (I can't even begin to age carlsson, he goes from one extreme (youth) to the other (wisdom) in his posts).


> Well, you know what Benjamin Diserali said about statistics...

No, I'm not familiar with him? Is he free speech bloke or
something?

CP/M User.

Disraeli (sorry, I munged the spelling before) was a PM in GB about a generation ago. One of his famous quotes goes:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics".
He was referring the fact that statistics are subject to interpretation, and that they can usually be interpreted in different ways by different people, depending on the particular spin they want to put on them. Here's a link to more Disraeli quotes:

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Benjamin_Disraeli

--T

carlsson
April 28th, 2004, 07:05 AM
53%+39%+7% = 99% answered, while one percent of the Australian people above 45 years old decided to go surfing rather than filling out the survey.

35% of 53% = 18% of the whole population quit full-time working before 45 years old.

97% of 53% = 51% of the population above 45 years old had fully retired (hmm.. so maybe this isn't as bad figures as it first looks like)

33% of 97% of 53% = 17% of the population above 45 years old hadn't had a full-time work in the last 20 years.

I'm not sure how to relate the average age of fully retiring at 44 and 59 to the figure that only half the population had fully retired. Probably there is some error somewhere, either in the report or in my thinking.

For the record, I turned 29 a few weeks ago, but maybe my wisdom sometimes comes from that when I have time, I like to look up and evaluate sources of information. :)

Terry Yager
April 28th, 2004, 09:28 AM
Oh by the way, if we are allowed to go into rants here, I could argue that while one of the former US presidents had Alzheimer's, the current seems to be infected by megalomania. :twisted:

Ain't it the truth...I bet if we drilled a hole into his skull, pure crude oil would run out instead of graymatter.
I guess it just pays to be famous if you're running for office. Now we have a governor of a major state whose only qualification is that he made a few movies, and another who is nothing more than a TV wrestler and former body-builder. Only in America...

--T

Terry Yager
April 28th, 2004, 09:33 AM
For the record, I turned 29 a few weeks ago, but maybe my wisdom sometimes comes from that when I have time, I like to look up and evaluate sources of information. :)

Well, that's good to know. In your picture you look to be about 18 or so, (must be nice, to look so young) but I figgered you were older because you talk about college as if it were a few years back.

--T

carlsson
April 29th, 2004, 01:17 AM
Maybe the webcam picture is too small to get a good view. I'll have to wait a few years for my first hair recess (or how it is called), but I don't think I will suffer from it, as neither of my male relatives have showed signs of early baldness.

CP/M User
April 29th, 2004, 02:04 AM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> Well it mightn't be as widespread, after all I'm in the
>> position where I'm a majority group of people who are
>> looking for work, these people I've met have been via
>> voluntry work that I'm doing or Work for the Dole (the
>> program which you have to do in order to get the Dole
>> - this comes into effect if you've been unemployed for
>> 6 months). For myself, I may got back to get an
>> education in the environment, 'cause it seems like a
>> good way to pursue a career in it. As a child, I grew
>> up in the bush, but never really learned the values of
>> it until I met some people who worked in the
>> environment.

> Environmental studies seems interesting enough...

Complicating enough, it sure is. There's still some good
stuff left of or indigenous plants, but with introduction
of plants from overseas & people orderning it over the
internet, there is that potential that more plants will
become weedy. Generally a weed is either a plant which
has been introduced from another part of Australia,
which loves to take control of, by multiplying or a plant
from overseas (South African plants tend to be the
worse - since lots of people love their flowers), which
have ways of spreading easily.

I don't know about the north half of the states, but I
heard a plant called the tumble weed (I think - or
rolley polley) was a big problem. In movies based
down south Texas or even Mexico, you generally
see it rolling around (it's this ball based plant). This
plant is actually Russian! ;-)

Oh & I've heard some stories about Eucalyptus
growing in the States, which don't quite look the
same as our Aussie counterparts. Merely because
of the conditions they have here, which don't
exist overseas! :-)

> Well disability is taken very seriously here, my Father had
> to retire because of his Arthritis, back then you had to retire
> at 65, but he got out at 61.

> Yes, but of course they never admitted it while he was still
> sitting in office. The signs were there right along, for
> anyone who cared to take notice, but he had a staff (and
> wife) that was pretty good at covering for him.

Good Heavens!

> Really? I have some trouble placing you age-wise. I
> tend to think of you as being about my age or mebbe
> a little older, because of the wisdom that you seem to
> possess.

I'm 26 going on 27 at the very end of June! Generally,
wherever I go I'm the baby of the pack, because I have
an obsession for things older than myself! ;-) Naturally,
computers isn't older than me, but I was VERY young
when I got stated with one. And I like them more than
you're everyday PC. Older IBMs like 386s/486s I don't
mind using, cause programming them just means that
people are still interested in those machines.

Didn't think I processed a wisdom! ;-)

> (I can't even begin to age carlsson, he goes from one
> extreme (youth) to the other (wisdom) in his posts).

Sounds like he's older than me.

>> Well, you know what Benjamin Diserali said about statistics...

>> No, I'm not familiar with him? Is he free speech bloke or
>> something?

> Disraeli (sorry, I munged the spelling before) was a PM
> in GB about a generation ago. One of his famous quotes
> goes quote from Benjamin Disraeli "There are three kinds
> of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics".

Let me guess, he was a PM of GB in the 60s?

One such album (from a 60s group called Cream - heard of
Eric Clapton?) is called "Disraeli Gears". Since Cream were
a group from Britan in the Psychedelic era, I'm guessing he
was PM of that time! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

carlsson
April 29th, 2004, 06:12 AM
Oi. I had placed CP/M User at least ten years older than that. Maybe we should have a "game" on the board, guess eachother's ages, and the one which has most correct win. Or we can guess eachother's shoe sizes, degree of vision impairment (thickness of your glasses) or average length of your fingers (and see who was the COBOL programmer in the old days).

vic user
April 29th, 2004, 06:21 AM
Wow!

totally pictured CP/M user to be in his forties at least :)

Chris

CP/M User
April 29th, 2004, 03:34 PM
"carlsson" wrote:

> Oi. I had placed CP/M User at least ten years older
> than that.

So that technically mean's that Terry could be my
father (not that he is).

What can I say for somebody who's my age? I love
doing things the ol' fashioned way! :-)

> Maybe we should have a "game" on the board,
> guess eachother's ages, and the one which has
> most correct win. Or we can guess eachother's
> shoe sizes, degree of vision impairment (thickness
> of your glasses) or average length of your fingers
> (and see who was the COBOL programmer in the
> old days).

Well I've used COBOL, but not with Punch cards.
Unfortunately, I never used a ol' computer (except
for an EDSAC emulator - but it can't be said that it's
the same as using a real EDSAC). All I know about
early computers comes from Books & the Internet! :-(

CP/M User.

CP/M User
April 29th, 2004, 03:37 PM
"vic user" wrote:

> Wow!

> totally pictured CP/M user to be in
> his forties at least :)

Heh! Pictured me as being past my
prime in my Forties! :-) Maybe when
I'm forty, I act like a Sixty year ol'
(Sounds Spooky!).

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Terry Yager
April 29th, 2004, 04:09 PM
So that technically mean's that Terry could be my
father (not that he is).

So it turns out I'm actually the wise ol' sage 'round here? Hope I set a proper example fr all you young'uns!


What can I say for somebody who's my age? I love
doing things the ol' fashioned way! :-)

That's why they call you CP/M User...


Well I've used COBOL, but not with Punch cards.
Unfortunately, I never used a ol' computer (except
for an EDSAC emulator - but it can't be said that it's
the same as using a real EDSAC). All I know about
early computers comes from Books & the Internet! :-(

CP/M User.

I used to have a copy of Nevada COBOL that ran under TRSDOS on the Model 16B. I checked it out a couple times, but never got very deeply into it.

--T

CP/M User
April 29th, 2004, 06:57 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> So that technically mean's that Terry could be my
>> father (not that he is).

> So it turns out I'm actually the wise ol' sage 'round
> here? Hope I set a proper example fr all you
> young'uns!

Not if you keep writing like that! ;-)

I think there would be some older people who have
posted here, so I think it's safe to say that you're
not the Grand Daddy! ;-)

>> What can I say for somebody who's my age? I
>> love doing things the ol' fashioned way! :-)

> That's why they call you CP/M User...

Well not quite, to some extent I've called myself
this because that's what I am! ;-)

>> Well I've used COBOL, but not with Punch cards.
>> Unfortunately, I never used a ol' computer (except
>> for an EDSAC emulator - but it can't be said that it's
>> the same as using a real EDSAC). All I know about
>> early computers comes from Books & the Internet! :-(

> I used to have a copy of Nevada COBOL that ran
> under TRSDOS on the Model 16B. I checked it out
> a couple times, but never got very deeply into it.

I used RMCOBOL back in my computer studies & I tried
to make it something, which I don't think it is. It might
of been possible to write a communications program in
COBOL, but the information I got from the books, didn't
really help me write one of those, becuase they were
too occupied discussing the primary purpose of the
language, which was printing Business applications.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

carlsson
April 29th, 2004, 10:59 PM
I have never looked into COBOL, but I've heard it is very verbose and involves a lot of typing so evil sayings was that you get shortened fingers after programming it for so long. I really hope someone has found a way to safely freeze the current expert programmers so they can be revived in one or two thousand years from now, whenever the next date-time issue happens for old computer systems.

"70% of the population has retired by 60 years, with the exception of computer programmers skilled in COBOL, who are put 'on hold' to last at least another ten years, preferrably divided over ten time periods."

Terry Yager
April 30th, 2004, 04:05 AM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> So that technically mean's that Terry could be my
>> father (not that he is).

> So it turns out I'm actually the wise ol' sage 'round
> here? Hope I set a proper example fr all you
> young'uns!

Not if you keep writing like that! ;-)

I think there would be some older people who have
posted here, so I think it's safe to say that you're
not the Grand Daddy! ;-)

Whew! That's a relief...


I used RMCOBOL back in my computer studies & I tried
to make it something, which I don't think it is. It might
of been possible to write a communications program in
COBOL, but the information I got from the books, didn't
really help me write one of those, becuase they were
too occupied discussing the primary purpose of the
language, which was printing Business applications.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

That would explain the BusinessOriented part then. (I thought it was short for "BOring", especially if you ever tried reading some source code).

--T

CP/M User
April 30th, 2004, 04:53 AM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

>> I used RMCOBOL back in my computer studies & I tried
>> to make it something, which I don't think it is. It might
>> of been possible to write a communications program in
>> COBOL, but the information I got from the books, didn't
>> really help me write one of those, becuase they were
>> too occupied discussing the primary purpose of the
>> language, which was printing Business applications.

> That would explain the BusinessOriented part then.
> (I thought it was short for "BOring", especially if you
> ever tried reading some source code).

Didn't you know that this was a Business Oriented
language? (Yes, you must of if you were using it on a
TRS-80 or something!).

RMCOBOL I used was based on the COBOL85 standard
(if that makes sense). For some unknown reason, it had
to follow the original coding (from COBOL59 I think),
which mean't you had to think like a punchcard! ;-)

I didn't mind it once I quickly got used to where the
program went, the remarks part & where you had to
put a continous marker, don't ask me where they go
now! ;-) Fortran is simular. I've got a Freeware version
based on Fortran 77, which follow simular guidelines.

The fun I got with Fortran is it's really scientific, which
mean's you can do maths & stuff. I found this amazing
program which draws this wormhole feature (using
text characters), which was done in Fortran.
Unfortunately, Fortran under CP/M is no fun with DRs
Fortran. The programs it compiles are far too big! :-(

But just getting back to COBOL, it's just a pity I
couldn't do anything with it, which could have some
fun to it. COBOL 85 especally, there's newer COBOLs
now, but it would simply be too easy to write something
up & it would be more fun having it for an older
computer.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Erik
April 30th, 2004, 05:51 AM
I did many years worth of COBOL programming both on IBM mainframes and, believe it or not, AT&T 3B2 UNIX systems.

I'd have to say that it is not my preferred language. . .

Erik

vic user
April 30th, 2004, 09:20 AM
CP/M user wrote:

Heh! Pictured me as being past my
prime in my Forties! :-) Maybe when
I'm forty, I act like a Sixty year ol'
(Sounds Spooky!).

I think I screwed up your age, due to your fav. Dr. Who, Pat Troughton.

I had you pegged as a young kid in the sixties, watching the old B&W's

Chris

Terry Yager
April 30th, 2004, 11:31 AM
I did many years worth of COBOL programming both on IBM mainframes and, believe it or not, AT&T 3B2 UNIX systems.

I'd have to say that it is not my preferred language. . .

Erik

Ever try PL/M? Just made a trip to the local SallyAnn & picked up a couple of interesting books. One is A Guide To PL/M Programming For Microcomputer Applications, by Daniel McCracken, dated 1977, and the other is a 968-page Hitachi 8-Bit Single-Chip Microcomputer Databook, dated July, 1985. Think I'll download the PL/M compiler from The Commercial CP/M webpage and try my hand at it a little. The Databook is kewl, too. I've scoured the web looking for a datasheet for the Hitachi 6301V0P that is in my Epson HX-20, and now one practically falls into my lap. I'm gonna have some fun tonite.

--T

Terry Yager
April 30th, 2004, 12:35 PM
AWWWW! The only PL/M compiler there is in FORTRAN 66 source code. Anybody know where I can dig up a FORTRAN 66 compiler?

--T

Erik
April 30th, 2004, 12:49 PM
I haven't tried PL/M although I did code in Fortran for a bit.

That said, I have no idea where you could find a Fortran compiler. . .

Sorry,

E

CP/M User
April 30th, 2004, 02:03 PM
"vic user" wrote:

> I think I screwed up your age, due to your fav.
> Dr. Who, Pat Troughton.

It is odd & perhaps unique for someone like me to
like someone who dates before my time. I thought
I mentioned Tom Baker as the first doctor I first
saw, or perhaps I said, while Tom Baker was very
good Doctor, I enjoyed the shows I've seen with
Patrick in. Unfortunately, there isn't much to go by,
there's Tomb of the Cybermen, not quite a complete
story with The Ice Warriors & The Invasion & 5
other stories (from season 6), which I all have.

> I had you pegged as a young kid in the sixties,
> watching the old B&W's

Well not quite, I might of been a different person
if that was the case, cause I might have
remembered a number of those missing episodes.

I might have talked about footage from missing
episodes, but that was from footage remaining
from missing episodes, shown on the special
documentary about those stories.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User
April 30th, 2004, 02:09 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Ever try PL/M? Just made a trip to the local
> SallyAnn & picked up a couple of interesting
> books. One is -"A Guide To PL/M
> Programming For Microcomputer Applications"-,
> by Daniel McCracken, dated 1977, and the
> other is a 968-page -"Hitachi 8-Bit Single-Chip
> Microcomputer Databook"-, dated July, 1985.
> Think I'll download the PL/M compiler from
> The Commercial CP/M webpage and try my
> hand at it a little. The Databook is kewl, too.
> I've scoured the web looking for a datasheet
> for the Hitachi 6301V0P that is in my Epson
> HX-20, and now one practically falls into my
> lap. I'm gonna have some fun tonite.

Planning on writing your own OS Terry? On
famous chap, too that language & wrote CP/M
with it! ;-) If you're looking for names then
perhaps "TYOS" might work!

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User
April 30th, 2004, 02:23 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> AWWWW! The only PL/M compiler there is in
> FORTRAN 66 source code. Anybody know
> where I can dig up a FORTRAN 66 compiler?

Not sure, but having read the site where you
got this from, it states that it compiles under
something77 under unix, which FORTRAN 77
might be able to compile this. There's a DOS
one available at the Simtel website, in the
DOS programming section, which maybe able
to compile it.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Terry Yager
April 30th, 2004, 02:41 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> AWWWW! The only PL/M compiler there is in
> FORTRAN 66 source code. Anybody know
> where I can dig up a FORTRAN 66 compiler?

Not sure, but having read the site where you
got this from, it states that it compiles under
something77 under unix, which FORTRAN 77
might be able to compile this. There's a DOS
one available at the Simtel website, in the
DOS programming section, which maybe able
to compile it.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Ok, Kewl! I'll try that, mebbe the '77 version is backwards-compatable. It's gotta be the DOS version, tho cause I don't currently have unix running on anything. (I did d/l the debian ISOs the other nite, for this PowerPC, but haven't tried to install it yet).

--T

Terry Yager
April 30th, 2004, 02:43 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Ever try PL/M? Just made a trip to the local
> SallyAnn & picked up a couple of interesting
> books. One is -"A Guide To PL/M
> Programming For Microcomputer Applications"-,
> by Daniel McCracken, dated 1977, and the
> other is a 968-page -"Hitachi 8-Bit Single-Chip
> Microcomputer Databook"-, dated July, 1985.
> Think I'll download the PL/M compiler from
> The Commercial CP/M webpage and try my
> hand at it a little. The Databook is kewl, too.
> I've scoured the web looking for a datasheet
> for the Hitachi 6301V0P that is in my Epson
> HX-20, and now one practically falls into my
> lap. I'm gonna have some fun tonite.

Planning on writing your own OS Terry? On
famous chap, too that language & wrote CP/M
with it! ;-) If you're looking for names then
perhaps "TYOS" might work!

Cheers,
CP/M User.

No, but I did d/l some of Gary's original PL/M source code, just to check it out.

--T

CP/M User
April 30th, 2004, 05:46 PM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Ok, Kewl! I'll try that, mebbe the '77
> version is backwards-compatable.

Well I just hope it is, I was just going
by the 'nix version of this Fortran
program which had 77 written after it.

> It's gotta be the DOS version, tho
> cause I don't currently have unix
> running on anything. (I did d/l the
> debian ISOs the other nite, for this
> PowerPC, but haven't tried to install
> it yet).

Yeah, check out Simtel or do a search
for "bcf7713b.zip" which is a DOS
version of a FORTRAN 77 compiler.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

carlsson
May 22nd, 2004, 12:03 PM
Stirring up the old "Aussie retirement" subject again, after reading a note in my daily newspaper about the AU government putting a lot of money into a grant to couples having a third child - one for mommy, one for daddy, one for the country.

It was said that Australia has a birth shortage, and it needs the 50% (if my math is right) increase in population over time. I'm not sure how this works out, if a majority of the people today retire or are forced to leave work right before or after 50 years old.

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that too many of the 20-40 year olds today are working instead of building a family, pushing the older generation into retirement too soon and leaving a big generation hole behind themselves. Almost like the working generation make sure not to retire as early as their parents did by not getting any children to take their jobs. Am I extrapolating now? I am much confused.

CP/M User
May 22nd, 2004, 03:37 PM
"carlsson" wrote:

> The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that
> too many of the 20-40 year olds today are working instead
> of building a family, pushing the older generation into
> retirement too soon and leaving a big generation hole
> behind themselves. Almost like the working generation make
> sure not to retire as early as their parents did by not getting
> any children to take their jobs. Am I extrapolating now?
> I am much confused.

Maybe, but lots of people looking for work are 18-30! Females
want to work too & be treated as equals, which I guess means
that having families is harder to have.

CP/M User
April 25th, 2006, 01:21 AM
Terry Yager wrote:

> <singing>Happy birthday to me,
> Happy birthday to me,
> Happy birthday to m-e-e-e-e,
> Happy birthday to me!

> FWIW, I'm 49 today.

eek! I see this will all be over -very- soon!

Sorry for the reminder I guess!

Unfortunately I can't remember what my Chinese symbol is -
they usually have interesting read outs too.

CP/M User.

CP/M User
April 25th, 2006, 01:37 AM
CP/M User wrote:

> eek! I see this will all be over -very- soon!

Correction - you're turning 51 very soon now - boy times
fly's! ;-)

CP/M User.

Terry Yager
April 25th, 2006, 02:03 AM
Tomorrow, actually (or midnite tonite). What day is it in Oz, anyways? This IDL thing really confuses me sometimes.

--T

ziloo
April 25th, 2006, 02:28 AM
Happy birthday Terry!! :-P

wish you a very fun day, and many more great years ahead.....

By the way, tell us how you got into computers and decided to
become a moderator!

ziloo

Terry Yager
April 25th, 2006, 02:37 AM
Computers: I was dragged, kicking & screaming into the twentieth century, when I found it necessary to learn a little about computers in order to help my kids with thier school work. I've been desparately trying to catch-up to the trailing-edge of technology ever since.

Moderator: It was more-or-less by default...nobody else had volunteered for the job, and since I was spending so much time hangin' around here anyways...

--T

CP/M User
April 25th, 2006, 02:40 AM
Terry Yager wrote:

> Tomorrow, actually (or midnite tonite). What day is it in Oz, anyways?
> This IDL thing really confuses me sometimes.

It's only 8:40pm Tuesday night, so you're still safe at the
moment! ;-)

CP/M User.

CP/M User
April 25th, 2006, 02:43 AM
Terry Yager wrote:

> Moderator: It was more-or-less by default...nobody
> else had volunteered for the job, and since I was
> spending so much time hangin' around here anyways...

Something which I have no ambitions of doing - unless things
get out of hand - then we'll be in all sorts of trouble!!

CP/M User.

Erik
April 25th, 2006, 05:02 AM
Well, Happy Birthday again Terry! It seems like we're doing this every year! ;)

Enjoy!

Terry Yager
April 25th, 2006, 05:55 AM
Well, Happy Birthday again Terry! It seems like we're doing this every year! ;)

Enjoy!

Tnx, but at least now I have the power to delete this entire thread, and no longer have to endure these annual reminders of the steady encroachment of my impending senility...

--T

Terry Yager
April 25th, 2006, 11:05 AM
['b]WHOO-HOO![/B] I just got a b-day present! I'm going to N'awlinz for the Jazz Festival! Sheila already has an appartment in the French Quarter, and she's been scouting out the 'good' divez for a few months, so it'll be a good week (if I make it thru the airport without being arrested for Suspicion of Attempted Rubber-Necking with Intent to Gawk (or whatever charges they choose to trump-up for my benefit)).

--T

Micom 2000
April 25th, 2006, 12:14 PM
Watch it kid ! You've just moved over to my side of the 50 yr barrier. Senility is for those who have lived a wastrel life. Oops ? Happy birthday to the 2nd half of life. And enjoy the the Jazz in N'awlins. (He says enviously.)

Lawrence


Tnx, but at least now I have the power to delete this entire thread, and no longer have to endure these annual reminders of the steady encroachment of my impending senility...

--T

Terry Yager
April 25th, 2006, 12:25 PM
Hmmn, I always thought 'North of Fifty' referred to the 50th Parallel...

I dunno if I have another fifty left though, it's encoded into my genes. My father, brother, and sister all died at fifty-one, (the big one), so statistically speaking, I'd better enjoy this Jazz-Fest caz it'll prolly be my last chance. (Course, my doc sez I have the ticker of a thirty-year-old, so mebbe it'll skip a generation this time).

--T

Micom 2000
April 26th, 2006, 07:02 AM
Oh I think that someone of your ornerariness will last for some time. Only 10 more years to able to be able to add the O.F. (*)title to your name.

* Old Fart.

Lawrence Walker (O.F.)

Terry Yager
April 26th, 2006, 07:28 AM
I'm already considered one by some folks. My kid called this morning, and he sez "Happy birthday, you ol' phart!"

--T

CP/M User
April 26th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Terry Yager wrote:

> I'm already considered one by some folks. My kid
> called this morning, and he sez "Happy birthday, you
> ol' phart!"

I don't get that, cause by definition "Everyone's old"!

If some kids doing that, I'd accumulate a total number of days
since their've been born & remind them of that! :-)

CP/M User.