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NathanAllan
June 6th, 2004, 02:46 AM
I went to the Macintosh User Group of El Paso (EPMUG) for the monthly meeting on Saturday.

I must say that I was disappointed. I was expecting to see lots of different systems, mostly newer, but still a variety. And lots of different people, too. What I did see was a bunch of people that had the same machine practically. All laptops save for mine and one other, a new Apple that was nearly the size of a fridge. I had the oldest machine there and they all looked at me like, "What is that guy doing here and is that a computer he has??" I felt a little out of place. There was one group activity, watching a quicktime movie that the guy couldn't get to play right. Other than that it was just a bunch of people with their Mac laptops jacked into a cable connection. One guy, Barry, made me feel like I was wasting my time being there by making fun of me practically every time he looked at my rig. Other than this he didn't say anything to me. Another guy, Dave, told me that I needed a "super techie" to fix the problems I was having, discounting the entire machine as a piece of junk. Also, he ignored the questions I was asking and pretty much everything else I did.

They all seemed to have the attitude that if yours wasn't the latest and greatest it is worthless. Barry asked me "Okay Nathan, what exactly do you intend to happen here? I mean, in a perfect world what do you want to see done?" Did I make it sound smug enough? He was.

There were no parts, no techies trying to hook this to that, no swapping or anything like that. It turned out that I needed a mouse (I knew that already) and noone would lend me one, and they acted like it was offensive to them to actually consider it.

I did get the satisfaction of blowing dust all over their nice pretty G4's, heh heh :twisted:

There was one guy, Bill, that seemed to have less of the new syndrome and actually showed me some keyboard commands. We still didn't get much done but I learned a little bit from him.

I have to give these guys a big bad review for this. I was expecting maybe some of that from some people, but not from them all.

Wanted to drop this review to you all and get some feedback. Wish I had more good things to say.

Nathan

Terry Yager
June 6th, 2004, 06:34 AM
Nathan,

Mebbe you'd have better luck with the KayPro Users Group. IIRC, there's one still active there in Texas somewhere, I forget what city tho. At least they wouldn't be inclined to make fun of old hardware. It is my not-so-humble-opinion that most Mac users have always been kinda snobbish, especially when it comes to peecees and the users thereof. Fortunatly, there is at least plenty of support for old computers on the net. (The only reason I ever moved on from CP/M to a PC was so that I could use it to scour the net & bullitin boards for CP/M stuff).
BTW, which machine did you take to the meeting that elicited such a rude response? (I wonder if anyone would have acted any differently if you'd taken say, an Apple I, or a Lisa I or something to thier meeting?)

--T

Terry Yager
June 6th, 2004, 09:23 AM
Found a Houston-based CP/M group, but no KayPro group. (I know, it has nothing to do with Apples).

http://www.mylinuxisp.com/~jdbaker/oldsite/CPM-Houston/

--T

NathanAllan
June 6th, 2004, 12:59 PM
I took a PowerPC 7200/75. What I found out about the computer itself was the extensions are "stepping" on each other, some kind of conflict, and it has a bad mouse.

I dunno if I had taken an Apple or something, I was tempted to take my C128 to see if I could hook the two together but I had enough parts and pieces that I was already making three trips to the car, heh heh. Makes me wonder what kind of response I would've gotten.

This is making me want to form some kind of classic computer group. There's plenty of support worldwide but not many people are in one location, y'know? All the C= meetings get people from all over I have seen. In El Paso there aren't many old computer users. Of any kind. If I get resources I will, maybe, form a Classic Computer Lover group.

One last poke at EPMUG, the place reminded me of a bunch of teenagers lining up cars in a parking lot bragging about stereos. :roll:

carlsson
June 6th, 2004, 02:10 PM
Well, Macintosh - Macintosh was on-topic. An Apple I/II/III, Lisa or even worse, another brand would probably not even have let you in to the meeting. I have no experience about real user groups, but maybe they were ignorant and almost hostile due to they generally knew as little or less than you about your model - for what it's worth, they could all have been introduced to computers and Macs two years ago and thus have no former experience or knowledge?

NathanAllan
June 6th, 2004, 02:20 PM
I got the feeling they didn't know that much about their own machines, much less mine. The people there weren't techie types, they were people that use macs everyday and didn't work on them. Noone but I was taking apart their machine or opening up anything. That one guy David was looking for me to get a usb cd-rom for some reason. I was more interested in getting a usb mouse. My cd-rom seems to work fine. It takes disks and spits the out on command. Just without a mouse I can't look at them.

Terry I have not a clue about using CP/M. I even have a couple of disks for my C128 but haven't had a chance to mess with them, load the system up. This is why we need a group in El Paso for working with old computers!! If I had someone there to show me how to do this stuff I would be doing a lot more!!

carlsson
June 6th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Maybe I misunderstood the idea behind a user group having meetings, but would you need to disassemble your computers everytime to make some progress within the group? :lol:

Personally, I only disassemble when something isn't working, I want to add or remove something or maybe dust cleaning. Of course, a previously unknown machine will get an inside overview if possible, but based on that, it should be David who starts digging inside your Mac while you go berzerk inside Barry's laptop (ooer - never open a laptop unless you are certified on repairing it).

NathanAllan
June 6th, 2004, 02:55 PM
Nah, I just wanted to cause the people there looked so aghast at my having it. I didn't really need to take it apart since noone had parts. I was also checking the connections to the cd-rom and fdd. Technically my machine qualifies as broken since it will function 100% but I think that's cause of programming errors. That was determined by bypassing the extensions. So next step is getting a mouse. The people there were not letting anyone else on their computers, and were being very posessive. One lady that was showing me her son's website was doing all tghe navigating and wouldn't even let me near her machine. I thought this was odd, but after looking around everyone was acting the same way, so I guess this was normal.

Terry Yager
June 6th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Well, Macintosh - Macintosh was on-topic. An Apple I/II/III, Lisa or even worse, another brand would probably not even have let you in to the meeting. I have no experience about real user groups, but maybe they were ignorant and almost hostile due to they generally knew as little or less than you about your model - for what it's worth, they could all have been introduced to computers and Macs two years ago and thus have no former experience or knowledge?

Ok, mebbe I should'a said Mac XL. I'll bet that would turn a few heads.

--T

Terry Yager
June 6th, 2004, 03:25 PM
I got the feeling they didn't know that much about their own machines, much less mine. The people there weren't techie types, they were people that use macs everyday and didn't work on them. Noone but I was taking apart their machine or opening up anything. That one guy David was looking for me to get a usb cd-rom for some reason. I was more interested in getting a usb mouse. My cd-rom seems to work fine. It takes disks and spits the out on command. Just without a mouse I can't look at them.

Terry I have not a clue about using CP/M. I even have a couple of disks for my C128 but haven't had a chance to mess with them, load the system up. This is why we need a group in El Paso for working with old computers!! If I had someone there to show me how to do this stuff I would be doing a lot more!!

I was fortunate enough to find a very good tutor when I got my first KayPro II. I spent an afternoon learning the five commands necessary to use CP/M, and even had time to learn a little about some of the transient commands. CP/M is not really difficult to learn and use. You're in the right place to find out what you need to know (well, mebbe in the wrong forum, but there is a CP/M page on this BB). The five main commands are:

DIR (just like DOS's DIR, but without any arguments).
TYPE (again, just like DOS)
REN (REName a file, similar to DOS)
SAVE (create a new file, a little complicated to use)
ERA (ERAse a file, just like DEL in DOS)
The sixth command is hardly ever used without a hard drive, but it is:
USER (change to another user area on the disk)

The main thing to remember is that DOS is bass-ackwards. In CP/M, the format is: destination=source, unlike DOS where it is: source=destination. For example, the REN command would look like: REN newname.xxx=oldname.xxx.
The wildcards (*) & (?) work the same as in DOS filenames.

Anyways, to get back on-topic (sort of), the CP/M commands work the same way in Apple CP/M as well.

--T

NathanAllan
June 6th, 2004, 07:47 PM
This really got me to thinking. I went online looking for something like a classic computer group and found nothing in El Paso. So I want to start one myself! It'll be a nonprofit thing where people can get together and basically have fun networking, fixing and doing whatever with old computers! And this time ALL will be welcome! I have a humble little classified ad here:

http://classifieds.pageland.com/ClassifiedListings.cfm?section=Computers

and will be publicizing it more and more. Tonight I just don't have time but for that simple little ad. I got some web space, so I'm gonna use it!

Thanks for the commands for CP/M, I got em copied!!

Nathan

carlsson
June 7th, 2004, 01:45 AM
Technically my machine qualifies as broken since it will function 100% but I think that's cause of programming errors.
Did you leave out a "not" somewhere, or is this an attempt of irony? :lol:

Terry Yager
June 7th, 2004, 08:40 PM
Technically my machine qualifies as broken since it will function 100% but I think that's cause of programming errors.
Did you leave out a "not" somewhere, or is this an attempt of irony? :lol:

All 100% functional Macs should be considered "broken," shouldn't they? Heck, I can't even get mine to run the simplest of DOS software, let alone CP/M. (Gonna try linux on it as soon as I d/l the last 2 ISO's...mebbe that'll smarten it up some).

--T

carlsson
June 8th, 2004, 12:41 AM
Dunno about DOS (maybe you're joking?), but supposedly there was a CP/M-68K. While it may not have been targetted at your specific model of Macintosh, it may be remotely adoptable.

That's an idea, that Nathan downloads some generic 68K or PPC images of his preferred OS or application, and then brings it to the user group so they together can try to make it work. Or even better, if he already had found out how to make it work, so he can apply the patches on location and the others will be amazed what a "whizz-kid" has joined the group.

Terry Yager
June 8th, 2004, 03:29 AM
I was only partly joking--the part about DOS & CP/M. I realize that some Mac PPC's can run DOS (with the right hardware) and presumably, CP/M (with the right emulator). The part about linux was completely true. There is a debian distro for the PPC, and so far I have d/l-ed 4 out of the 6 ISO images with the intention of trying it out on my 7200/90.
Yes, there really is a CP/M 68K, but AFAIK no one has ported it to run on 68K Macs. I used to have a Dimmension 68000 (now in the museum) that, in native mode, ran CP/M 68K. That was a very interesting machine, and one of my all-time favorites. I'm thinking I might even write a review of it for posting in the appropriate section of this board.

--T

NathanAllan
June 8th, 2004, 06:04 AM
I think that the only way I could impress that bunch is to get a new Mac, regardless of what I could do with an old one. I made two contacts that were not 'hostile' and have emailed one asking him to tell the other that I won't be coming back to the meeting but will meet with them whenever they would like to.

About me being a whizz-kid, I got the impression that they thought they were all pretty special cause they could plug in their usb floppies :roll:

and oops, that was a mistype. "not" 100%. heh.

Jon Jarmon
July 17th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Hi Nathan.I went to the Lakewood Macintosh User Group in Lakewood,WA U.S.A. in 2003 and demonstrated my original 1984 serial #2336 dealership Macintosh.It brought tears to one Macintosh owner and the head of the Macintosh User Group there was interested in seeing my Mac running Microsoft Flight Simulator version 1.02
It was a open house meeting.I had a pretty good time there but most of the users had new Macs.Only 1 MUG member was using older Power PC's.
The rest had Apple G4 towers,IMacs and newer Powerbook laptops.
At the time I believe they had about 7 members there at their open house meeting(Hey there was FREE food,that was cool!)

I am intending on purchasing a new Macintosh from Apple later this year or maybe in 2005 because I think that in September of 2004 all the models might be revamped and have IBM G5 processors in them,even the less expensive IMac and EMac models.Not sure but it's a reasonable rumor.The G4 is getting quite long in the tooth.
Apple is supposed to have their "Tiger" version of the Mac OSX operating system coming out in the first part of 2005 too with many new advanced features.

So I intend to join the Lakewood Mac User Group once I obtain my new Mac in 2005.They sometimes have meetings also with a Seattle Macintosh User Group.I have collected even more accessories with my original Mac.
Actually now I have 2 dealership(pre 6000 serial number) Original Macs.
I also have 2 Imagewriter 1 printers,3 external 400K Sony drives,1-300 baud Apple(Mac) Modem,1-Original Apple Carrying Bag,Original Keyboard and Mouse,The Guided Tour Cassette Tape,System disks and hundreds of software titles for the original Macintosh.I am missing the Mac manuals though.I really want to show this off to a HUGE Seattle Mac User Group metting(Yeah,I would trade one of my original Mac's for a new G5 tower I think).

I also have 3 Macintosh 512's,4 Mac Pluses,6 Mac SE's,2 Mac SE/30's,2 Mac Classics and 2 Mac Classic 2's,2 external hard drives,printers etc.
as part of my "Toaster" Mac Collection.

ravuya
July 22nd, 2004, 09:04 AM
I had a really cool CP/M emulator for my Mac awhile back, I used it to play a little ASCII space invaders game that came with it.

Terry Yager
July 22nd, 2004, 09:28 AM
Do you know where I could get a copy of that emulator & the space game? Do you rem'br the name of it? Did it run on a 68K Mac, or PPC only?

--T

colombiano
January 14th, 2007, 01:30 PM
I have an old Macintosh II that I rescued from the trash dump. One of my professors was going to throw it away. It still works, although it has a loose connection or something. I have all the manuals needed to repair it, but not the time or the tools. I thought of donating it to the Mac User Group in El Paso but after reading this forum, I'm thinking twice about it. They wouldn't be interested in it, I'm guessing. Any thoughts on who would want an old macintosh II, and 3 boxes full of manuals and software? Let me know if you've had any luck with your old computer, NathanAllan.

ahm
January 14th, 2007, 02:05 PM
Where are you located?