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Sharkonwheels
January 26th, 2008, 11:14 PM
I know there was a problem with the Autoload Disk #1 in the copies floating around...

I THINK I successfully built a copy, though it's not auto. You have to manually SUBmit the script, but it WILL reload.

Anyone need it? Terry - weren't you looking for it?


T

Terry Yager
January 27th, 2008, 11:33 PM
That's the same problem I have with my reload set. I have to load all the files to the proper user areas manually. Yeah, if you've fixed it, shoot me a copy (you have my email, right?). Also wouldn't hurt to make sure Dave D. gets a copy too.

--T

NobodyIsHere
January 28th, 2008, 02:48 AM
Shark,
Please send me a copy when available! Thanks, PM sent.

Andrew Lynch

Sharkonwheels
January 28th, 2008, 10:59 AM
No - mine, all ya gotta do, is boot it up, and so "sub reload" or "sub load4mat"

Hmm, is it sub? or xsub on the reloads? don't remember - I'm at work.

Andrew - I have you covered - I just haven;t imaged it yet. Going to test it
tonight or tomorrow. I copied it over from a working TurboROM reload Disk #1 I made last year. Again, on that one, same thing - just had to launch the script manually, and it copied everything over from all disks, all user areas, just as if it autobooted. I just made that one that had the TurboROM BIOS on the disk, to make it easier to reload TurboROM equipped machines.

T

NobodyIsHere
January 28th, 2008, 05:38 PM
Hi,
well, since we are talking about the KayPro 10, I am new to KayPro and just restored a KayPro 10 to working order. It is completely stock as far as I can tell. I ended up installing a ST225 hard disk and using a version of the K10G reload disks I found online. They obviously had some problems though and I went with an K10H version in the end.

My K10 boots with the KayPro 1.9E ROM boot screen. I am considering replacing the ROM but would like your opinion on which is the best way to go since there are several available for the KayPro 10.

What do you recommend? TurboROM? I can burn my own chips so that isn't a problem.

Also, how do I tell what sort of motherboard is in this? Apparently there were several versions available. Is it written on the MB someplace? I suppose that would matter for what replacement ROM would be best.

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch

Sharkonwheels
January 28th, 2008, 05:58 PM
If it's a 10/83, then the 50-pin ribbon cable going to the HD interface (mounted next to the monitor on the HD chassis) is near the center of the board. If it is a K10/84, then the floppy, 50-pin HD interface, and power are all in a row on the right-edge (looking onto the motherboard from the front, monitor facing you). This is actually the exact same motherboard as the K4/84, except the K4/84 (at least mine) has the modem and RTC clock hardware onboard. A 10/83 motherboard is I think an 81-180 (front right corner silk-screened), and my K10/84 has no marking, just a silk-screened "81-" but nothing filled in after.

The other quick way to tell, is if the RAM is soldered, just below the 81-302 EPROM front & center of mainboard, it's an '83.
If the RAM is socketed, front left corner of mainboard, it's an '84.

Right now, unless you have an EARLY Kaypro 10, which will *NOT* have an 81-302 ROM, your only choice is the TurboROM V3.4. If you have a K10/83, you will need to do a minor hack to get a 2764 EPROM in there:

1. Follow the directions for prepping TurboROM-ready boot media
2. Burn the TurboROM V3.4 onto a 2764 (let meknow if you can't find it.)
3. Tie pins 26,27,28 with a piece of wire, wrapping around the front of the EPROM, and also tieing in pin 1. I just get a piece of wire form a multi-conductor copper wire, and solder it onto pins 1,26,27,28.
4. Insert the EPROM into the socket with pins 1,2,27,28 sticking out.
5. use a mini-grabber, or solder a wire, from pin 2 of the EPROM, to pin 2 of the Z80 CPU

Done. If you properly prepped the software, you can now boot, and prep the hard disk for TurboROM (AdvFmt.com)

If you need the TurboROM utilities, let me know


T

Terry Yager
January 28th, 2008, 09:13 PM
Ahh, so that's where it was s'pozed to go to... I had a 10 with that same mod done to the ROM, except when I got it, the clip wasn't attached to anything, and it wouldn't boot, so I pulled it and replaced it with a copy of the ROM from my other 10. At least now I can pass that info along to my friend Mark, who I gave the modded chip to, as a curiousity.

--T

Sharkonwheels
January 28th, 2008, 09:32 PM
It's documented in the TurboROM manual, which is floating on the net in text format. It's in one of the appendixes.

T

Terry Yager
January 28th, 2008, 09:40 PM
Never thought to look (or what to look for or where). I just figgered it was a kewl hack to get a 28-pin EPROM to work in a 26-pin socket.

--T

Sharkonwheels
January 28th, 2008, 10:04 PM
Erm, 24-pin.
2732 is a 24-pin, so on the 2764's in an '83 kaypro socket, pins 1,2,27, and 28 hang over the socket. most '84 Kaypros have a 28-pin socket: 10/84, 4/84,2/84 I know do, think K-1 does also, as the New 2. 2x, maybe.

;)


We having a bad "Kaypro Week?"


T

Terry Yager
January 29th, 2008, 11:30 AM
Yeah, dat's what I meant, four 'extra' pins. I'm just remembering how much stuff I've forgot. I remember once being characterized as a CP/M wizard who can muddle through DOS a little on a good day (This from my own mentor, after I'd advanced to the point where I was teaching him stuff he didn't know). Well, today's the day I hand that title over to you. (You really are getting pretty good at the Kaypro stuff).

--T

Sharkonwheels
January 29th, 2008, 01:07 PM
T, I got my first Kaypro 10 back in 1989 or so. I remember ordering my TurboROM from Chuck Stafford (still have it, and the disks, and the manual), and getting my NZ-COM direct from Jay Sage. Both of these purchases were around 1991 or so.

At that time, I also acquired an Osborne 1a, with the Nuevo upgrade, and I still own that machine to this day. Other machines have come and gone, and come and not gone, but the DS/DD Kaypros and the K-10 is still my favorite.

Now, I wouldn't mind a Micro Mint SB180FX and an Ampro LittleBoard Z80 1B, of course.

:D

T

Terry Yager
January 29th, 2008, 08:33 PM
Ahh, yes...'Mr. Kaypro' himself...have you heard anything from him lately, or has he joined Don Maslin in CP/M heaven? I lost track of 'im when The Computer Journal stopped publication. Is he still the 'official' distributer of the TurboROM, or has he passed the torch on to someone else?

--T

Sharkonwheels
January 29th, 2008, 09:23 PM
Don't know - would love to find out.
Um - we talking Chuck or Jay? I assume Jay, speaking of TCJ...

That GIDE/Kaypro project suuuuure would love to get it's hands on the sources for the TurboROM and utilities. That would be a SWEEEET starting point! All them features, and then throw GIDE into the mix!

Gotta love it.

I also pinged Mitch over at microcodesolutions.com to see if he'd be willing to allow a mod to the KayPLUS sources. That might be a nicer starting point.

TurboROM had a static list of drives it supported - with KayPLUS, you can select a close match, and then change the geometry.

Niiiiice!

If it only worked on 90% of the Kaypro 10's, it would rule! Except - it only works on the early, non-upgraded-units with the reversed reset line.

Strike One

That , and I can't get the integrated in-ROM Kaypro-88 RAMDisk support working. In the KayPLUS manual, it mentions a menu setting under <S> for system, whereabouts
you enable RAMDisk support for Advent RAMdisk, or kaypro-88/Co-Power-88.

Of course, wouldn't you know it?
That menu option is nowhere to be found.

Strike two.

T

NobodyIsHere
January 30th, 2008, 02:26 AM
If it's a 10/83, then the 50-pin ribbon cable going to the HD interface (mounted next to the monitor on the HD chassis) is near the center of the board. If it is a K10/84, then the floppy, 50-pin HD interface, and power are all in a row on the right-edge (looking onto the motherboard from the front, monitor facing you). This is actually the exact same motherboard as the K4/84, except the K4/84 (at least mine) has the modem and RTC clock hardware onboard. A 10/83 motherboard is I think an 81-180 (front right corner silk-screened), and my K10/84 has no marking, just a silk-screened "81-" but nothing filled in after.

The other quick way to tell, is if the RAM is soldered, just below the 81-302 EPROM front & center of mainboard, it's an '83.
If the RAM is socketed, front left corner of mainboard, it's an '84.

Right now, unless you have an EARLY Kaypro 10, which will *NOT* have an 81-302 ROM, your only choice is the TurboROM V3.4. If you have a K10/83, you will need to do a minor hack to get a 2764 EPROM in there:

1. Follow the directions for prepping TurboROM-ready boot media
2. Burn the TurboROM V3.4 onto a 2764 (let meknow if you can't find it.)
3. Tie pins 26,27,28 with a piece of wire, wrapping around the front of the EPROM, and also tieing in pin 1. I just get a piece of wire form a multi-conductor copper wire, and solder it onto pins 1,26,27,28.
4. Insert the EPROM into the socket with pins 1,2,27,28 sticking out.
5. use a mini-grabber, or solder a wire, from pin 2 of the EPROM, to pin 2 of the Z80 CPU

Done. If you properly prepped the software, you can now boot, and prep the hard disk for TurboROM (AdvFmt.com)

If you need the TurboROM utilities, let me know


T

Hi! Well, no doubt about it, my KayPro 10 is a 10/83 motherboard. I don't recall whether the RAM is socketed but I do recall the hard drive cable connector is in the middle of the motherboard and covers the EPROM.

Thanks for the excellent description!

Andrew Lynch

Terry Yager
January 30th, 2008, 02:37 AM
I was talking about Chuck, I know Jay is still around. Chuck just kinda disappeared off the map rather suddenly one day. I was concerned if sum'n bad happened to him, or if he just suffered from burnout and quit responding to messages, and I've lost track of his fone #.

--T

Sharkonwheels
January 30th, 2008, 10:23 AM
From what TCJ announced way back when, Chuck Stafford "turned over" the Advent stuff to TCJ, so he could retire, and travel the country, apparently.

http://web.archive.org/web/19990421014314/www.psyber.com/~tcj/tcjstore.html

Bottom of the page.

If you happen to know how to reach Jay, I'd love to be able to find out the status of the TurboROM and it's source.
That would be a GREAT starting point for a new ROM for GIDE!


T