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Thread: Use of ems on a 8088 xt

  1. #1

    Default Use of ems on a 8088 xt

    Hi,

    I have an xt mobo with 640kb of base ram + 128kb of ems.
    This mobo comes with msdos 3.3 version and the only sys driver to use this ems ram is ramdrive.sys, but this is not my purpose.

    Exists any program like emm386, that use this 128kb of ram, and make me use himem.sys to load dos in high memory area???

    All the programs I found requires 286 (emm286) or propietary ems hardware
    (boca, ibm, etc).

    My hope is to find an 8088-86 ems driver to solve the problem, perhaps a juko ems driver can works, I notice that juko xt mainboards come with 640 + 384kb of ems (1mbyte).

    Any driver of juko or other are welcome to try it work my 128kb of ems.
    Thanks in advance,

    Genocho.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by genocho View Post
    Hi,

    I have an xt mobo with 640kb of base ram + 128kb of ems.

    Genocho.
    Are you shure, this is really ems in the proper sense ?

    EMS is kind of a "window" into a usually much larger memory of, say 4 or 8 MB,
    mapped into a frame of typically 64k which used to be placed above the "magic" 640k line.

    What you have got, seems to be just some sort of "upper memory".
    I am not shure whether drivers existed, that allowed to use this memory space,
    but i would not totally exclude it either.

    Some software, e.g. certain network drivers, may possibly be loaded there,
    even without the need of additional software.

  3. #3

    Default

    Yes, the bios of the xt says 640kb + 128 ems, but it really must be umb..........

    The xt is a schneider euro pc II, in the internal menu bios you can configure 4 kind of memory starts:

    512kb, 640kb, 640kb+128 and 512+256

    In the manual of msdos, it uses that "ems" with ramdrive.sys in the config.sys
    (device=ramdrive.sys 128/256) for creating a volatile ram disk.

    Perhaps with another driver can manage that 128 or 256kb to use like umb and load msdos in high...........

    If any know why......

    Thanks,

    Genocho.

  4. #4

    Default

    Well I must admit, my memories about the details of MSDOS 3.3 are not as fresh anymore, as they should be to give you a definite answer.

    But why don't you just give it a try ?

    Get, or even better, make a system disquette with MSDOS 6.2 (or DRDOS 6.0 or 7.0 or so). This way you will have an environment which allows you to make all kinds of experiments without risking your running configuration on the hard disk.

    Once you have got this, simply try whether MSDOS 6.2 can be highloaded on your mashine. Well actually not highloaded, you haven't got any memory beyond 1MB, but simply try something like DOS=UMB in CONFIG.SYS. MSDOS 3.3, as far as i remember, can't be highloaded anyway.

  5. #5

    Default

    Wiwa64,

    I try in msdos 6.22:

    dos=high,umb
    device=himem.sys

    Himem.sys needs 80x86 machine....so dos cant be loaded in high or umb......

    I think with propietary drivers from juyo mainboard or other manufacters can use this 128kb like umb.

    If any know any driver that uses 128kb as a umb I try it.

    I know juko mainboards with 640kb+384kb come with drivers for manage this upper memory, philips xts too.

    Any info and driver are welcome.


    Regards.

  6. #6
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    Expanded memory boards require a driver that is proprietary to that board. The ramdrive.sys is just like it sounds, a driver to use the extra 128Kb as a RAM disk (can be quite useful). EMS memory can not be used for anything else, especially on an XT-compat. There is no high or upper memory to load anything into. The only way the EMS even works is because the driver re-maps it into the "page frame", which exists in lower memory.
    EMM.SYS is a program that does just the opposite (on newer processors). It uses Extended memory to emulate Expanded memory, for backwards compatibility with the older EMS.

    -T
    Teach your children how to think, not what, and hold 'em close, not tight.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Yager View Post
    EMS memory can not be used for anything else, especially on an XT-compat.
    I disagree; disk cache programs use EMS, and many applications use EMS (Turbo Pascal IDE, Microsoft Word, etc.). EMS, if you can get it, helps any XT.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixter View Post
    I disagree; disk cache programs use EMS, and many applications use EMS (Turbo Pascal IDE, Microsoft Word, etc.). EMS, if you can get it, helps any XT.
    That's what I meant to say...sorta. The EMS hardware has to support additional features, such as RAMdisk and disk caching, and the proper (proprietary) software is necessary for switching the hardware to those modes. DOS's RAMdrive program won't do anything with the extra RAM if the hardware don't support it. Additionally, as Trixter points out, the EMS memory can only be used with programs that are specifically written to use it. I also forgot to mention that even a meager 128Kb is a big improvement over having no EMS mem at all.

    My main point is, EMS can't do what XMS can do.

    --T
    Teach your children how to think, not what, and hold 'em close, not tight.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Yager View Post
    My main point is, EMS can't do what XMS can do.
    I wouldn't want it to -- hardware EMS is faster than XMS (Reading from EMS involves some calls to the hardware to map pages in so the data can be read, but XMS can only be read by copying data to the lower 640K. So you read EMS, but you copy-then-read XMS.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixter View Post
    I wouldn't want it to -- hardware EMS is faster than XMS (Reading from EMS involves some calls to the hardware to map pages in so the data can be read, but XMS can only be read by copying data to the lower 640K. So you read EMS, but you copy-then-read XMS.)
    Roger dat, but I got the impression that the OP wants to use his EMS to free-up conventional memory, which is a Bozo No-No.

    --T
    Teach your children how to think, not what, and hold 'em close, not tight.
    _____________________________________________

    Please visit the Vintage-Computer Wiki. Contributers welcome.

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