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Thread: XTIDE Universal BIOS

  1. #411

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmanse View Post
    I have a question. Can the XTIDE bios be placed in a 8kx8 ROM in U28? (0xF4000 instead of 0xC8000). The smaller version, of course.
    As far as i know it should work but i've never tried it in my 5150 before, your 5150 will need to have the latest bios.

  2. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackepyon View Post
    Maybe. It fits onto an 8k ROM without the boot menu, but what are you putting it onto?
    Quote Originally Posted by Malc View Post
    As far as i know it should work but i've never tried it in my 5150 before, your 5150 will need to have the latest bios.
    Thanks for the replies! It is indeed a 5150 with the latest bios. I have a couple of (16-bit) IDE controllers that I wanted to try, but without ROM, which none of them have, it would be pointless. With XTIDE installed as a ROM at 0xF4000 at least there is a chance.

    I have just confirmed that the ROM is detected, but I havn't transferred the configuration app to that particular computer yet, so I don't know how well it works.

  3. #413

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmanse View Post
    Thanks for the replies! It is indeed a 5150 with the latest bios. I have a couple of (16-bit) IDE controllers that I wanted to try, but without ROM, which none of them have, it would be pointless. With XTIDE installed as a ROM at 0xF4000 at least there is a chance.

    I have just confirmed that the ROM is detected, but I havn't transferred the configuration app to that particular computer yet, so I don't know how well it works.
    16-bit IDE/Floppy controllers won't work in the 5150 due to the reserved IO space in the 5150, I tried them a while back and couldn't get any of them to work, The floppy part works but the IDE part does not, Modem7 came up with the answer as to why, See: http://minuszerodegrees.net/5160/dif...ifferences.htm

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malc View Post
    16-bit IDE/Floppy controllers won't work in the 5150 due to the reserved IO space in the 5150, I tried them a while back and couldn't get any of them to work, The floppy part works but the IDE part does not, Modem7 came up with the answer as to why, See: http://minuszerodegrees.net/5160/dif...ifferences.htm
    Ah, thanks! That was very clarifying! Well, time to get a xtide v4 then

  5. #415
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    Speaking of 16-bit cards in 8-bit slots, anybody know the rhyme or reason to why 16-bit cards are able to work in 8-bit slots? If it's just the data pins using the high portion of the slot, it's possible to truncate the data bus down to 8-bits, I think, but I'm not positively sure how it does this.

    For instance, I've got a 16-bit 3Com NIC (3C509-TPO for those playing along at home) with a 28 pin boot ROM socket, and the address/data lines for that socket all go to the low-end, so the ROM itself would work in an 8-bit slot. It doesn't need any of the high address pins for the NIC portion, and the higher IRQ/DMA lines could be set for lower ones. Is it pin C1 (system bus high enable) that tells the card to go to 16-bit mode, where lacking that signal, it just stays in 8-bit?
    My vintage systems: Tandy 1000 HX, Tandy 1000 RSX, and some random Pentium in a Hewitt Rand chassis...

    Some people keep a classic car in their garage. Some people keep vintage computers. The latter hobby is cheaper, usually takes less space, and is less likely to lead to a fatal accident.

  6. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by vk6hgr View Post
    So thanks to those who have created and worked on this, it makes me happy to be able to give this ancient machine a new lease on life.
    Thank you! I appreciate the fact that you registered on this forum to give us positive feedback, not many people do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackepyon View Post
    Is there a way to set the XT-IDE BIOS to just default to ROM Boot?
    No, not currently. I think you're the first to request this. And I'm not sure it's needed in your case - the ROM drive should have a device number like any other harddrive. If you have a CF card installed that means the ROM drive should be 80h or 81h depending on the order of BIOS initialization.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackepyon View Post
    18h is supposed to go to the BASIC ROM... At least, so I thought. I just realized that 0xh and 8xh don't coincide with floppy and hard drive on the interrupt list! *doh!*
    There's only a couple line of documentation regarding the default boot device. Maybe somebody could better explain to me if XT-IDE BIOS takes anything beyond 0xh or 8xh for it's boot order?
    Device number 18h is the 25th floppy drive. And it has nothing to do with interrupts (as you discovered). Devices numbered 0 to 127 (0h to 7Fh) are floppy drives and 128 to 255 (80h to FFh) are harddrives. Anything beyond this (more than 255/FFh) would require more than a single byte and is not possible.
    Looking for a cache card for the "ICL ErgoPRO C4/66d V"

  7. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by vk6hgr View Post
    So thanks to those who have created and worked on this, it makes me happy to be able to give this ancient machine a new lease on life.
    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by Krille View Post
    No, not currently. I think you're the first to request this. And I'm not sure it's needed in your case - the ROM drive should have a device number like any other harddrive. If you have a CF card installed that means the ROM drive should be 80h or 81h depending on the order of BIOS initialization.
    I have gotten DOS 5.0 to boot properly, so having it boot to ROM isn't a priority, but it would be a nice feature to have it able to automatically boot to more types of devices (maybe even put a menu just for that in XTIDECFG instead of guessing which hex value it might be). Tandy's were a bit unique in that some of them, such as my 1000HX, had DOS installed on ROM, so I was working without the CF as a boot drive for about a year until I tried to upgrade to R601 where it wasn't taking my previous setting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krille View Post
    Device number 18h is the 25th floppy drive. And it has nothing to do with interrupts (as you discovered). Devices numbered 0 to 127 (0h to 7Fh) are floppy drives and 128 to 255 (80h to FFh) are harddrives. Anything beyond this (more than 255/FFh) would require more than a single byte and is not possible.
    Yes, it did show up as trying to boot from drive Y. A Shugart controller can support up 4 floppy drives (1000EX/HX supports 3), so talk about overkill, being able to support 128 floppy drives! But this does give me the information that wasn't in the documentation. Thanks.
    My vintage systems: Tandy 1000 HX, Tandy 1000 RSX, and some random Pentium in a Hewitt Rand chassis...

    Some people keep a classic car in their garage. Some people keep vintage computers. The latter hobby is cheaper, usually takes less space, and is less likely to lead to a fatal accident.

  8. #418

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    [2 years and a reply !]

    ==> Thanks, WallyB - I definitely must have a try of this, I've let my A1000+BridgeBoard setup away since long as I did not find a solution to use XT-IDE with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallyB View Post
    SUCCESS!! Lo-Tech ISA/IDE-CF Adapter Working in Amiga / Bridgeboard (8086) XT PC. (Initialized X-TIDE)

    So I finally got the Lo-Tech Adapter working with X-TIDE Universal BIOS. I almost gave up.

    I had some luck and DOUBLE stumbled upon the solution.

    I've tested a few times and appears to be consistent Positive.

    Further testing and understanding of exactly how things work is needed.
    I'm no expert on Either Amiga or Bridgeboard, but a ton of testing and luck made things work.

    SUMMARY:

    1) The Amiga Bridgeboard boots on Powerup, but doesn't Active till the JANUS.library loads via the AMIGA workbench Boot disk.
    2) However that isn't enough to Initialize the Lo-Tech / X-Tide
    3) After Amiga Boots up, to active the 8086 XT you launch the PC-Window (Where the 8086 XT PC runs in)
    4) But that still by itself won't initialized the Lo-Tech / X-Tide (since by design the Amiga Architecture Disables AutoBoot when a Controller/Hard disk in inserted into the ISA SLot)
    5a) To enable HARD file Autobooting a File (Aboot.CTRL) is normally placed in the AMIGA (SYS:PC/System folder)
    5b) Normally the Aboot.CTRL file has an entry that Points to a previously created HARD file on the Amiga Side
    5c) But if that file is there, the PC XT will boot from the File like a normal C: Drive
    5d) During multiple testing, I by accident removed the HARD file Entry from the Aboot.CTRL file (to supress the error Message, since I removed the HARD FILE)
    5e) Had I remove the file (not emptied it), things wouldn't work, since AUTOBOOT would be disabled (thus no initialization of LO-Tech/X-Tide)
    6a) That still would be enough since if the Amiga sensed the Lo-Tech Adapter via INIT it wouldn't turn on AutoBooting
    6b) So it's IDEAL that Lo-Tech does not get recognized on Power up on the PC XT ISA bus.
    6c) The 2nd Stumble luck was I didn't reboot the Amiga, and I had the DOS Floppy disk out of the A: Drive
    6d) Instead of Power Reboot, I did a CTRL-ALT-DEL to reboot the XT PC 8086 a 2nd time, while amiga side was up, and Autoboot enabled with the empty Aboot.CTRL File.
    6e) That triggered a normal XT PC boot, and since JANUS.library on Amiga Side was already started, the boot was a Standard Phoenix BIOS boot
    6d) That 2nd XT Boot now does a initialization of the Lo-Tech Adapter with X-Tide BIOS, and the IDE connected device boots

    The X-TIDE Firmware Image I used in the Lo-Tech is the First one in above post. No the Delayed Init/Tandy version.

    I tested with the IDE-Seagate Maxtor Drive and it works.
    I also tested with the Secure Digital SD-Card Adapter and it works. (Picture below)
    Haven't tested with the Compact Flash Adapter, but I'm pretty sure it will work.

    Here is proof things worked. Retested a few times and the sequence describe above is working/consistent.

    Attachment 36641

  9. #419

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackepyon View Post
    Ditto
    Thanks!

    I have gotten DOS 5.0 to boot properly, so having it boot to ROM isn't a priority, but it would be a nice feature to have it able to automatically boot to more types of devices (maybe even put a menu just for that in XTIDECFG instead of guessing which hex value it might be).
    Booting from more types of devices; It really comes down to the fact that the device has to emulate a floppy drive or a harddrive (on the BIOS Int13h interface level).

    Regarding a more user friendly boot drive selection; Note that you can use XTIDECFG to configure the BIOS for other machines and in that scenario it's obviously not possible to detect the number (or type) of drives.

    While XTIDECFG could certainly be made to see the current number of drives in the BIOS Data Area on the machine it is running on, it would still be very hard to reliably map device numbers to drives for future boots as that can change a lot depending on the order of option ROM initialization. It would have to determine factors such as; Is XUB already installed or not? Where in the UMA will the user install XUB? Will the system BIOS initialize option ROMs going from the bottom of the UMA to the top (as is usually the case on old machines) or will it go the other way (which admittedly, AFAIK, is a configuration option available only on more modern machines)? How many drives will the user install in the machine?

    It would just be guessing and I'm sure the user can do a far better job at that than XTIDECFG.
    Looking for a cache card for the "ICL ErgoPRO C4/66d V"

  10. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krille View Post
    Thanks!

    Booting from more types of devices; It really comes down to the fact that the device has to emulate a floppy drive or a harddrive (on the BIOS Int13h interface level).

    Regarding a more user friendly boot drive selection; Note that you can use XTIDECFG to configure the BIOS for other machines and in that scenario it's obviously not possible to detect the number (or type) of drives.

    While XTIDECFG could certainly be made to see the current number of drives in the BIOS Data Area on the machine it is running on, it would still be very hard to reliably map device numbers to drives for future boots as that can change a lot depending on the order of option ROM initialization. It would have to determine factors such as; Is XUB already installed or not? Where in the UMA will the user install XUB? Will the system BIOS initialize option ROMs going from the bottom of the UMA to the top (as is usually the case on old machines) or will it go the other way (which admittedly, AFAIK, is a configuration option available only on more modern machines)? How many drives will the user install in the machine?

    It would just be guessing and I'm sure the user can do a far better job at that than XTIDECFG.
    Mainly, what I was originally looking for is to have it do is the equivalent of pressing F8 automatically instead of booting A: or C:. I'm assuming that F8 just skips the drive boot and continues through the ROMs like the machine would normally do without the XUB. As I said, the Tandy 1000HX has DOS 2.11 in ROM already, so for the 16MB CF card I was using originally, it could be used for storage and installing a bootable DOS wasn't necessary.
    My vintage systems: Tandy 1000 HX, Tandy 1000 RSX, and some random Pentium in a Hewitt Rand chassis...

    Some people keep a classic car in their garage. Some people keep vintage computers. The latter hobby is cheaper, usually takes less space, and is less likely to lead to a fatal accident.

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