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Thread: XTIDE tech support thread

  1. #991

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    Quote Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
    The problem with SD is its not based on the IDE standard like CF is and requires translating to IDE and back again.

    That's why CF is a better solution for XT IDE systems.
    From what i've been reading it seem's to work for a lot of people but it depends on the adapter used, Just like with CF, I like the idea of using SD cards given the prices of CF these days, I was surprised at how much CF has gone up in price since i last bought any, I also ordered 2 x 32Gb micro sd cards with adapters for less than the price of a 4 Gb CF.
    Last edited by Malc; November 15th, 2018 at 01:09 PM.

  2. #992

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    Hi all,

    So I couldn't give up it seemed so close to working

    I wrote a quick program in Debug (the only thing useful on my real 5160 10MB HD ). I used it to call the drive identity command.
    I noticed there was corruption - but always exactly 16 bits missing. I wonder if it I was reading the drive too fast so I added a delay after each word... this actually made it WORSE.

    So my hypothesis was that perhaps it was reading the SD card TOO SLOWLY for the adapter?

    It turns out I was almost correct.

    I switched to the Hi-speed mode using and the XT-IDE v2 BIOS - still corruption. However in my debug program I was actually swapping bytes to make the drive identity string readable and that xchg al,ah instruction was just enough to tip it over the edge. Once I removed that it was perfectly stable every time!

    So I had a look at the XT-IDE v2 bios code and found out it (obviously) doesn't have this xchg instruction... but it does have a loop unroll into sets of 8 reads.

    I thought perhaps it was the timing consistency that was the problem. Sure enough if I remove the loop unrolling.... THE SD CARD and XTIDE WORKS.

    I've managed to format it from DOS 3.2 (after having to WIPEDISK it) and everything is working fine after several reboots.

    I'll perform some more experiments to narrow down exactly what was happening but perhaps this is useful to the bios authors?

  3. #993

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    My SD card adapter arrived today and it works, Using my IBM 5160 I connected the adapter to my R4 XT-IDE flashed with XUB v1.1.5 and inserted a 1 Gb Kingston SD card, Booted the XT using a DOS 6.22 Bootable floppy and ran fdisk and partitioned / rebooted and formatted the sd card with no problems, I installed DOS 6.22 and rebooted and it booted via the sd card with no issues, I've done little testing but it seems to be working fine, The XUB reports it as 'Sintechi highspeed sd to c'. I'll test more later using my other Cards and other PC's though so far it's looking good.

    sdadapter.jpg
    boot.jpg

  4. #994

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    I find it strange that none of the SD card adapters seem to support power over pin 20!

    Quote Originally Posted by Malc View Post
    My SD card adapter arrived today and it works, Using my IBM 5160 I connected the adapter to my R4 XT-IDE flashed with XUB v1.1.5 and inserted a 1 Gb Kingston SD card, Booted the XT using a DOS 6.22 Bootable floppy and ran fdisk and partitioned / rebooted and formatted the sd card with no problems, I installed DOS 6.22 and rebooted and it booted via the sd card with no issues, I've done little testing but it seems to be working fine, The XUB reports it as 'Sintechi highspeed sd to c'. I'll test more later using my other Cards and other PC's though so far it's looking good.

    sdadapter.jpg
    boot.jpg
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Mac's: SE, LC630 & Beige G3
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

  5. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
    I find it strange that none of the SD card adapters seem to support power over pin 20!
    Oh, I don't know--how many legacy IDE controllers provide power over pin 20?

  6. #996

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    Oh, I don't know--how many legacy IDE controllers provide power over pin 20?
    All the decent XT IDE controllers do.
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Mac's: SE, LC630 & Beige G3
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

  7. #997

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    Most SD cards over 4Gb require a separate voltage regulator ( not just 3.3V ). You need to read the card first to determine the voltage for writing.
    Dwight

  8. #998
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    Even the legacy (XT-era, pre-1990 ones)? I'd say that power over pin 20 is a relatively recent innovation in the universe of PC XT hardware. In point of fact, if I go to my library, I can't find a single reference to pin 20 being used for anything but "keying" (i.e. meant to be blank) for both the ATA and XTA drives.

    But let's not be hasty. Let's see what the "bible" says. The last ANSI X3.221 draft I can find online is 1153D and dates to late 1998, long after the XT era. Go to "Annex A, Connectors" PDF page 296 and show me where pin 20 is used for anything but keying (i.e. blank). I have IDE cables with that position blocked (filled in).

    For standard ATA/IDE, pin 20 is not used. That some use it for power is nonstandard, and, I suspect, a late innovation.

  9. #999

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    Even the legacy (XT-era, pre-1990 ones)? I'd say that power over pin 20 is a relatively recent innovation in the universe of PC XT hardware. In point of fact, if I go to my library, I can't find a single reference to pin 20 being used for anything but "keying" (i.e. meant to be blank) for both the ATA and XTA drives.

    But let's not be hasty. Let's see what the "bible" says. The last ANSI X3.221 draft I can find online is 1153D and dates to late 1998, long after the XT era. Go to "Annex A, Connectors" PDF page 296 and show me where pin 20 is used for anything but keying (i.e. blank). I have IDE cables with that position blocked (filled in).

    For standard ATA/IDE, pin 20 is not used. That some use it for power is nonstandard, and, I suspect, a late innovation.
    You are correct, it is a modern addition as it was unused back in the day.
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Mac's: SE, LC630 & Beige G3
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

  10. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
    You are correct, it is a modern addition as it was unused back in the day.
    Further, I became aware of the "+5V on pin 20" quasi-standard from dealing with industrial control equipment and industrial Flash modules (DOMs). I wouldn't be surprised if no consumer IDE controller ever provided power on pin 20. It does seem weird that no SD adapters would allow for it though, since so many CF adapters do.

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