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Thread: Computer Scrapping is BS!

  1. #21
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    MikeS wrote:

    Why do some of you guys insist on calling people "ignorant" just because they prefer to buy a new computer and see an old computer as what it really is to most people, just a piece of old junk?

    Because the fact is everyone is ignorant at either one thing or another! You simply cannot know everything without remembering it all.

    I've been "in" computers since before some of you were born, and have thrown out all sorts of stuff in my time including North Stars, Cromemcos, PETs, TRS-80s etc., and probably more than 100 PCs & clones. Does that make me ignorant?

    You tell us?!?
    Was it your choice to throw that stuff out?
    Or did you simply have no other alternative?

    I mean if you took measures to ensure those machines went to good homes, but couldn't and had no other alternative, then that's all you can do - even taking these machines down to the local Charity shops is bad because they won't take them or don't have the room for them.

    Do you see what I mean that anyone can be ignorant? I'm ignorant for not understanding your situation and simply blaze around and talk about how we live in a throw-away society and how people simply throw stuff out without knowing what they could turn it into!

    I wouldn't critise anyone for at least not trying and trying something which is purely vintage is so difficult to give away to anyone who doesn't know what the world was like before GUIs!

    I've offered Cromemcos and recently a fairly classic RS/6000 server here and elsewhere for the price of shipping and, in the case of the Cromemcos, a few bucks for myself since each of the 4 or 5 cards are generally worth at least around $50-75 ea., but all I get are, "gee, I wish I could afford it, but..." etc.

    Well that's just bad luck cause you've done the right thing, but nobody was offering. I'm not suggesting that people here did the wrong thing, though it's just a pity. If I had plenty of room I'd probably get it off your hands just like anyone else here, so it's simply a series of unfortunate circumstances which lead to those machines being thrown out.

    So, unless I want to completely turn my house into a warehouse (which it actually already is) what choice do I have but to scrap this stuff?

    Exactly right.

    Have you ever tried to give away even a P3 or P4? I've managed to give some away to a friend or relative (mainly because I set it up and am around to keep it going), but I've also scrapped dozens because nobody wants 'em. I had about 25 1.6GHz/40GB/DVD HP Vectras recently; phoned all sorts of places like schools, resellers etc. and couldn't give them away, fortunately Druid took a few off my hands and also found homes for 'em.

    I've got dozens of hard drives <10GB, how many do you want to buy for your business venture?

    No well it was silly of me to mention this because I mentioned it before, but it wouldn't work because the world is so GUIed up they wouldn't consider my radical idea which is simply old-hat now. I might of had that idea when I first came to this forum, and it might have worked then, but when I think about it's kind of idea you simply wouldn't give up your day job to making a living for - mainly due to the fact that picking it up as a business and making money from donated machines which rely on free stuff would be an incrediable risk to take to make it work. People buy computers for the availability of software it can have too and not buy a computer based on what software you get pre-installed with it. I remember some guy was trying something simular like this years ago on because they were flogging it on TV and the demand for it was higher than what the service was expecting and then the computers had problems with them, so it was really bad.

    Perhaps the best approach is to have a website which highlights all the things you could do with an IBM based PC - perhaps such websites do exist, but don't work because it's targeted audience don't look into those kinds of things. From my perspective I think it's a shame when you see a Computer stuck out on the front of someone's nature strip ready for the garbadge truck to come and pick it up, but that's the throw-away society I've been talking about and people simply throw away without having the concept of knowing where that all ends up in landfill. Printers are like this too which has simply driven those companies to produce printers which cost less than a tank of ink for it! So yes it's pretty grim what western society does!

  2. #22
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    Well, I offer you the same advice as I offered the OP: if it bothers you that much that obsolete computers are scrapped and presumably recycled to some degree then by all means start collecting and find those people who want a 486 or P1 as a second or third computer beside the one or two modern ones that they probably already have and use. Many thousands of perfectly working computers are crying out for you to save them instead of bitching about folks who choose not to.

    I don't disagree with your comments about our throw-away society, and even agree that it's a shame that a lot of useful things are buried, burned or recycled. But I do resent your calling me and folks like me ignorant because we don't share your idea of the value of this old junk and choose to send it to the scrappers, and I certainly don't accept your judgement that I have some kind of responsibility to go to the trouble and/or expense to "take measures and ensure" that old computers find "new homes"; these are not pets or children for chrissakes.
    Last edited by MikeS; April 11th, 2010 at 09:02 PM.

  3. #23
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    MikeS wrote:

    Well, I offer you the same advice as I offered the OP: if it bothers you that much that obsolete computers are scrapped and presumably recycled to some degree then by all means start collecting and find those people who want a 486 or P1 as a second or third computer beside the one or two modern ones that they probably already have and use. Many thousands of perfectly working computers are crying out for you to save them instead of bitching about folks who choose not to.

    I don't disagree with your comments about our throw-away society, and even agree that it's a shame that a lot of useful things are buried, burned or recycled. But I do resent your calling me and folks like me ignorant because we don't share your idea of the value of this old junk and choose to send it to the scrappers, and I certainly don't accept your judgement that I have some kind of responsibility to go to the trouble and/or expense to "take measures and ensure" that old computers find "new homes"; these are not pets or children for chrissakes.

    Well I still choose to say that everyone is Ignorant in one way or another. It was my ignorance for me to jump in a suggest that people who throw computers away are Ignorant without considering the possibilities or considering that people are trying to give these machines away. However your taking it for granted that I'm calling you ignorant following my ignorant comments earlier which simply isn't the case.

    Ignorance is formed though Lack of Understanding, Knowledge and even Assumptions or simply Living a Lie. My Ignorance is based on the common Assumption - everyone does this one so it's pretty hard to say that nobody has a Ignorant moment!

  4. #24
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    I'm having a hard time following the conversation, so I'll just respond to the original post:

    First off, the majority of old PCs have no value. Can't run new games, can't get online, can't run DVDs, can't run a modern operating system... and they're so common as freebees in most places that anyone who really wants a Windows 95/98 machine for whatever reason already has one. And they're so common and uninteresting that they have no value to collectors or hobbiests.

    Second, here's a point I agree with, recycling is best left to professionals. Not too bright for someone who's "ignorant" of computers to be doing it in their garage. For one thing, they unlikely to have the facilities or knowledge necessary to recover all of the reusable materials. Second, some of that stuff is toxic and dangerous. Third, the time and effort not worth the financial reward. Fourth, at least someone in the operation needs to be smart enough to know which items and parts have a resale value that's higher than the scrap value.

    Third, there's no sense in getting worked up over it regardless. It's the old man's stuff, so he can do what he wants with it. Sure you can have an opinion, just like I do, and you can even state it here, just like I did. But you have to realize that your opinion doesn't count for anything when it comes to someone else's stuff, especially if you can't cough up a few bucks to provide an alternative.

    --------------------

    Anyway, perhaps you can save up a few bucks to "save" a couple of interesting or valuable items. Sell them on eBay then return the next week with more money to "save" a few more items. Return the next week with even more money... eventually maybe the two of you could work out a business deal, or at least he'd let you have first dibs on stuff before he attacks it. You won't get anywhere if you aren't capable of getting along with this fellow, and aren't capable of making an arrangement that benefits him.

    Worst case, this guy simply doesn't like you and you're forced to find a new source of scrap computers and parts.

    Best Luck!

  5. #25
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    Bottom line--the stuff belongs to the owner. If he (or she) wants to turn it into confetti, so be it. There's a video on YouTube of a couple of kids having batting practice with a brand-new iPad. It's their money.

    If rarity determines price, then destruction of existing items can only improve the value of what survives. Sort of like the old story of a guy who owned a very rare stamp and paid an outrageous amount to acquire the only other surviving specimen of the stamp--and then set fire to it. His original stamp became the sole surviving one and made his investment in purchasing the second one pay off handsomely.

  6. #26

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    Yes, non-vintage PCs can be a problematic for the people who have lots of them.

    Take this seller who I posted about on another forum.
    http://www.trademe.co.nz/Computers/V...-283433355.htm

    This guy has a real problem. I feel sorry for him, particularly as his health is failing. There may be a few vintage items in this lot but most of it people will not want. He is going to be very lucky to find a buyer at $NZ1000 and in fact he would be lucky to find anyone to take it away for free.

    In New Zealand in some of the larger cites they do occasionally have e-waste days where you can dump something on the curb and people will pick in up. Most of the time though, you need to take it to a recyling centre and you need to PAY $5 to $10 just to get them to take it!!

    That's a good incentive for someone to just throw it all over a cliff in the dead of night.

    He is selling the website and a ready made second hand computer parts business. This might encourge someone to take it off his hands but I doubt such a business will be very lucrative.

    Tez
    Last edited by tezza; April 12th, 2010 at 11:06 AM.
    ------------------------------------------------
    My vintage collection: http://classic-computers.org.nz/collection/
    My vintage activities blog: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/
    Twitter: @classiccomputNZ ; YouTube Videos: (click here)


  7. #27

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    I agree it sucks to see good stuff get scrapped. Then again all of us have modems and other obsolete telco type gear that we may not care about but could also be seen in the same light. I see stuff all the time I'd love to offer folks to save the computer but I also have the monetary issue and space issue which prohibits some of that behavior (and believe me.. I've resisted the thought of not having enough space probably past the appropriate limit or two).

    Like others, sure I'd love to save a Cromeco or any gear really but my arms are tied and my effort is only as good as my motivation. I try to help folks find homes and will usually reply to a sale post to get more lucrative information out there, sometimes for me but mostly for the seller to show they're responsive and that it works and I hope it finds a good home even if it's not mine.

    I hate to be on the shipping kills the deal band wagon but man it's tough.. $60 system.. $120 shipping, or even $400 system and $300 shipping and wow.. great system and yeah for $400 I'd save it but $700 is different and my savings are getting lower and lower these days. Even finding my favorite system there's a great possibility I can't get it myself and can just hope that it goes to a good place. It's tough, but yeah if you want let him know he can make more selling it and offer assistance, you'll sell it for x% of the total and if it doesn't sell with-in X days or weeks then he can sell it for scrap. That will get him and you both extra money as well as help offer up systems to collectors and folks who will respect the system for what it is
    Looking to acquire: IBM 5100, Altair 8800

  8. #28
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    I only snag what I like, even if it is free. You have to have some control or you will fill the whole house up with systems and parts. Quite often I pass information about deals to others who collect that type of system if I don't want it and it is destined to get recycled.

    As far as modems, I have quite a few (every haul you get has one). Will end up recycling most of them someday. The voice modems were nice for a computer answering machine.

    On a side note I wonder how long it will be until beige computer cases are in again and nobody will want a black one? Doesn't realy matter what is in a beige case, nobody wants them because they are "old style".
    What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
    Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
    Boxed apps and games for the above systems
    Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

  9. #29
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    Well in reflection to what I said earlier, the big picture at the end of the day is how society has allowed this to happen. Companies are always making money from it and that's the way business is done. I always remember the days when a Computer was Built to last - certainally the vintage computer I had was in production between 1984 & 1990! Before being revamped in 1990 to have Cartridge Software available for it and 4096 Colours! To my amazement those updated machines were never sold in Australia - buggers. The Fact is Computers are made now to be thrown out in 3 or 4 or 5 years! Society maybe partly to blame and Microsoft are always there to take advantage and make some more money from it - along with the Hardware producers who always love it when their hardware is supported!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP/M User View Post
    I always remember the days when a Computer was Built to last - certainally the vintage computer I had was in production between 1984 & 1990! ...
    Well I enjoy using machines from that time period, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to go back to that sort of market. The days when a 'real' computer cost more than a car and only the biggest companies could afford one. Repairs and upgrades were prohibitively expensive. The few people who did have computers in their homes primarily had simple cartridge-based t.v.-systems. Nothing was inter-compatible or standardized. Most couldn't be upgraded unless there was a massive and expensive "expansion system" available. Software and peripherals cost a fortune. Function and usefulness was extremely limited.

    Home built systems were out of the question to everyone except the most advanced enthusiasts, and then weren't compatible with storebought systems that others owned. Even 'simple' upgrades usually had to be done by a professional service shop.

    And despite the romantic mythical notion that older stuff was "build to last", hardware failure was rampant, further rewarding the proprietors of locked-in hardware and software.

    Good riddance!


    (and that's my rant for the day)

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