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Thread: KAYPRO and KayFreHD as a hard disk module

  1. #81


    Well, that's embarrassing! My speculation about the different Turboroms was nonsense. I discovered that the floppy drive in my Kaypro 10 had its drive select jumper set to ds2 instead of ds1. No wonder it wasn't showing up. I discovered this when I used Turbomap to reveal the drives and their settings. Should have checked the computer more carefully when I got it from Ebay. In any event I now have two hard drives of 40 meg each split into 6 partitions. This is an enormous amount of storage space for a CP/M machine. And I still have a 60k TPA. Now to fill them up!

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    South Florida


    I can tell you from experience, and '84 TurboROM is an '84 TurboROM. Make sure you are using v3.4.
    From your pics, you definitely have an '84 board, which is identified by the RAM being in front left corner, and the interfaces being on the right (viewed rom the front) edge of the board.

    The big empty area at the right rear is for a transformer, front right area is for the clock battery, plus empty space in both areas for respective support TTL chips.

    This is what an '83 K10 mainboard looks like (already with a z80 piggyback for the Advent RAMDisk, and a non-pictured Advent "personality decoder"):

    This is what an '84 K10 Mainboard (fully loaded with clock/modem, but battery removed for now to prevent leakage) sometimes referred to as an "MTC board":

    As to the KAYPlus ROM, some additional insight, as Gene mentioned, might be necessary...

    The KAYPlus code is looking for an older converter board, which was in the original batch of K10s, but were later replaced by Kaypro under warranty.
    They reversed the reset line, hence when the KAYPlus encounters the newer board, it may be having the same effect on the FreHD: Keeping the reset signal tied up.

    I know that is an issue in getting the K10 working with the KayPlus ROM, with the 2nd rev board and the WD1002 board to an MFM drive. Been there, done that, fought that battle and lost.
    Someone would need to replicate the original board.

    Frank / Jaquinn: Can you guys check the logic using the Kayplus ROM with the interface attached? I'll try to find the necessary info on the 1st rev adapter board.

    From all I have read/Heard/Seen, the KayPlus ROM is in many ways superior to the TurboROM, however the hardware issue is a showstopper.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    South Florida


    Found the explanation of the small circuit board in early and later Kaypros (TurboROM v3.4 Manual, appendix H, page H-4):

    H.3. Early Kaypro 10 Upgrade 81-303, Explanation

    The two versions of the small circuit board differ primarily in
    how they generate the master reset signal for the hard disk
    controller board. The early version connected the second floppy
    disk drive select signal directly to the hard disk controller
    master reset. The later version of the small circuit board uses
    the inverted second floppy disk drive select line for connection
    to the hard disk controller master reset.

    The modification to the early version of the small circuit board
    detailed in this appendix inserts an inverter into the master
    reset logic for the hard disk controller. The addition of the
    inverter makes the early board functionally equivalent to the
    later version.

    Note: The original Kaypro utilities PUTSYS.COM, PUTOVL.COM
    and FMT305.COM, which were provided with the computer
    should not be used after these modifications. If you
    are inserting the Kaypro 81-302 ROM, replace these system
    utilities with versions from a later model Kaypro 10. If
    you are inserting the TurboROM, the utilities
    TURBOGEN.COM and K10FMT.COM, provided on the TurboROM
    Support Software Diskette, should be used.

    The actual modification of the early board (TurboROM v3.4 Manual, Appendix H, page H-3):

    5. Modify the Small Circuit Board

    Make the following changes to the small circuit board.
    Keep the wiring short and as neat as possible. The set
    of 50 pins will be referred to as J1; the set of 40 pins will
    be referred to as J2. On the solder side of the circuit
    board, a square solder pad identifies pin 1 of each set of
    pins. All pins in the row with pin 1 are the odd numbered
    pins, all pins in the other row are even numbered pins. Refer
    to Appendix E for basic information concerning the pin
    numbering of IC's. Wires should be installed on the solder
    side of the circuit board.

    1. Cut the trace that runs from J1 pin 45 to J2 pin 39.
    2. Cut the trace that runs from U1 pin 7 to U1 pin 2.
    3. Add a wire from U1 pin 1 to J1 pin 45.
    4. Add a wire from U1 pin 3 to J2 pin 39.
    5. Add a wire from U1 pin 2 to U1 pin 14.

    Ref: Plu-Perfect Systems Advent TurboROM V3.4 Manual (text version: )

    From what a few of us here gathered, it looks like the KayPlus is looking for the early mid-board, and not the later one. It never releases the reset on the WD1002.

    Also, historically speaking, the way we've adapted the 27(c)64 EPROMs to work in the K10/83 with 24-pin socket, was to tie pins 26,27,28,and 1 together, and then jumper from P2 on the 2764 to p2 on the Z80.

  4. #84


    I got 3 frehd to kaypro adapter boards from oshpark in the mail today. If anyone wants a board I can sell the two extra.
    Price + international priority shipping would be around 7 usd per board. PM me if you are interested.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Pottstown, PA


    I have read the whole thread. I'm having trouble piecing together precisely what I need to
    get a older version model 10 (HD connector in the middle of the board) running with a FReHD.
    I'm not so interested in Advent and KayPLUS roms, which everyone else seems to be- which
    I think is complicating the install for me. I gather I may not need to do anything with the ROMS
    in this case... or are those enhanced ROMS actually needed to handle the FReHD correctly?
    ie: sector sizes?

  6. #86


    Huge thanks to geneb for getting me a floppy drive for my 2x, it's now booting again!

    It's been so long now since I started this project I have completely forgotten everything.

    My 2x has that same K10 board as posted earler and now an Advent ROM (also thanks to geneb), so now I get to re-learn what all I need to do next.

    cellarcat: I LOVE the female header idea, I guess I have to get to ordering a 50pin female header, that's a lot better than my 2 short scsi ribbon cables.
    Last edited by mikerm; February 12th, 2017 at 09:55 AM.
    An equal opportunity collector.

  7. #87


    Ok, I guess I need some more help from some kind soul.

    I have kinda made progress, sorta.

    According to sharkonwheels and the pictures he posted earlier, I apparently have a 84 K10 (MTC) board in my 2X. My board assembly sticker reads 81-809. I have the Advent Turbo ROM (3.4) installed. I am using the "geneb board" on the side header, which I soldered in myself. I toned out all the pins to make sure they are making contact.

    I ended up doing what cellarcat did and put a female header on the board, it's so much nicer than messing with 2 cables.

    Anyway. So when I flip on the Kaypro the green LED flashes for a second, which I'm assuming from YT videos and such that's normal. Then when I use Advant's tool to format an HDD, I'm not entirely sure what all to put in for a custom drive, or what other drive to use. I can't find anything anywhere on that, and I'm not sure how anyone else did it because those details seem to be missing from everywhere (unless I'm really that blind). The documentation that came with the FreHD lists the Cylinders and Heads for the TRS-80 images, but not the different CP/M images.

    Basically I'm guessing I need to know for ADVFMT.COM:
    Starting cylinder for precomp (default 0)
    Buffered Seek Y/N (If yes, drive step rate in milliseconds x.x)
    Sector Skew (default 1)

    When I try something, anything it flashes the green LED for a split second, then the red LED comes on for 5 seconds or so. The error I get is "compare error". After the red LED goes out the green one then flashes for a split second.

    Any ideas anyone?

    Edit: I noticed in the Advent notes above there is supposed to be a K10FMT.COM on the disk which mine didn't have for some reason. I added it and while I don't need all that information, and it very quickly goes through and "formats" it, the FreHD does nothing at all. Very weird.
    Last edited by mikerm; March 29th, 2017 at 05:56 PM.
    An equal opportunity collector.

  8. #88


    I have a 2X with the fully-populated board and have just ordered boards from OSH Park. I also need to get another FreHD.

    I think the female headers on the adapter board will make things cleaner.

    Is the only difference between the 2X and 4/84 the ROMs and software?

  9. #89


    If you read this page you will see that there is also another version of the GAL equation
    To access the full 8K I needed to connect U60 pin 13 (in addition to Pins 14 and 15) to the GAL and make a small change to the equations to generate the /OE signal for the larger ROM.
    . I also have several Kaypro II and II and I would like to install FreHD

  10. #90


    My new FreHD boards arrived. I updated one to 2.14 and built one of geneb's adapters. The system is a Kaypro 2X with the later universal board. It has the KayPlus ROM installed already so I gave it a try.

    I copied the cpm image to hard4-0 through hard4-3 so I didn't have to guess which one was correct. The idea I had was to get it working then check each of the images to see which one was actually used.

    in the HDCNFG program I tried 15MB first and it failed verify on cylinder 0 head 6 (and the FreHD locks up when the program tries to reformat). I then tried 5MB and it got up to cylinder 3 before the verify failed and the FreHD hung.

    Is this one of the previously-mentioned issues with the KayPlus ROM or am I doing something wrong?

    Will an actualy Kaypro 10 ROM work or should I try an Advent TurboROM? Does anyone have a link to the disk images for the TurboROM?


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