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Thread: Installing core backplane into PDP 11/40

  1. #1

    Default Installing core backplane into PDP 11/40


    http://vintagecomputer.net/digital/p..._installed.jpg

    Over the past two days I put in a core backplane and 16K core in my 11/40 "short cabinet" system. I also added another SPC backplane to I can have do more stuff with this machine. I removed the 64K MOS memory for now.

    http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=635

    One thing I wanted to pass along..when you put in the Grant Continuity cards, be sure the gold pins are facing to the left. Also, you don't need GC cards in empty core backplane slots.

    CPU and 16K core
    http://vintagecomputer.net/digital/P...-Installed.jpg

    The system's higher functions are not working correctly. I can no longer boot to the console (via 9600b terminal) - both the M7856 serial card and the M9312 do not appear to be functioning like they were before I installed the new backplanes. I suspect power is the issue, or I fried something. I am confident I have termination, grant and NPG correct.

    I CAN run programs from the front panel, store programs in core, cold boot and they're still installed in memory. No perceived faults.

    I am guessing I am not getting enough power to the DD11C backplane. Note that there is a NPG card in the last slot of the DD11C, this backplane was altered to require this, in addtion to slot 2 which is comes that way. I have the M7762 RT-11 controller in slot 2. Quick tests showed some low +5V spots. I have more than one H744 to track down. typical stuff.
    Last edited by billdeg; May 24th, 2016 at 05:07 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Hi All;

    Congratulations, Bill !! on getting some Core to Work..

    I am a Core Person my self, But, as You know, I have trouble keeping Core Power Supplies Going..
    They Tend to Blow up on me (the Power Supplies)..

    THANK YOU Marty

  3. #3

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    I read your posts about the 11/45 from a while back. You had a lot of issues with serial cards then. Me too. They shut down the system if they're not working correctly. I am going to have to repair and get at least one running. I have both M7800 and M7856's to resuscitate.

    Where there common issues with these cards or were they all just messed up? I plan to test each with extender boards, probe for faults starting with the 1488 and 1489 chips.

    b
    @ BillDeg:
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    Hi All;

    Bill, it was a combination of both.. It was mostly Power Supplies taking things out, but it was also starting with all unknown Boards..
    Put all of that into the mix and as You have read, alot of trouble would brew up all over the place..
    I would like to see Your progress on the Serial Cards, and the 'how' of Your troubleshooting of them..

    THANK YOU Marty

  5. #5

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    I learned that the m7856 is intended for a dd11-c backplane. Many 11/40s came with dd11-b's. That means if you're not sure it's safer to use the m7800. My point is just be sure what you'replugging serial cards into.

    I am using both typee of spc backplane. You can't I don't think use a dd11-b for a RT11 controller. I f someone can say for sure that'd be useful.

    More to come....
    @ BillDeg:
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by billdeg View Post
    I learned that the m7856 is intended for a dd11-c backplane. Many 11/40s came with dd11-b's. That means if you're not sure it's safer to use the m7800. My point is just be sure what you'replugging serial cards into.

    I am using both typee of spc backplane. You can't I don't think use a dd11-b for a RT11 controller. I f someone can say for sure that'd be useful.

    More to come....
    The M7856 and the M7800 should work in an SPC slot. I don't see anything in http://www.chdickman.com/pdp11/Notes/DD11.shtml or the respective manuals to suggest otherwise. The only difference is the LTC on the M7856.

    The M7822 Controller (RL11) while hex size, only gets power from Rows A + B. The docs say it will work in a Unibus or MUD Slot. I would NOT put it in the DD-11B with the DF11 slots in Rows A+B.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by billdeg View Post
    I learned that the m7856 is intended for a dd11-c backplane. Many 11/40s came with dd11-b's. That means if you're not sure it's safer to use the m7800. My point is just be sure what you'replugging serial cards into.

    I am using both typee of spc backplane. You can't I don't think use a dd11-b for a RT11 controller. I f someone can say for sure that'd be useful.

    More to come....
    The M7856 DL11-W (SLU with line clock) and M7800 DL11-A/B/C/D/E (SLU, configurable) are both SPC UNIBUS quad cards, so can go in any SPC slot (sections C/D/E/F) of any UNIBUS backplane with SPC slots. This would be any DD11-A, DD11-B, DD11-CK, DD11-DK, and other processor specific backplanes like for the 11/44 that has SPC slots or the DD11-PK for the 11/04-34 which as SPC slots in rows 3 thru 9. So anywhere you can use an M7800 you can use an M7856, and vice versa.

    By RT11 controller I am inferring that you meant RL11 controller instead, which is a hex SPC compatible module. This means the A/B sections only have +5/GND power connections, and sections C/D/E/F are the standard UNIBUS SPC pinout. So the RL11 controller could go in any of the above backplanes in SPC slots 2 thru N-1 (ie, not first or last SPC slots, as those have UNIBUS IN/OUT in sections A/B). So your RL11 could go in a DD11-B slots 2 or 3, and a DL11-A/B/C/D/E/W could go in any of DD11-B slots 1 thru 4. According to the DEC wirelist for the DD11-B the DF11 pinout has +5/GND in sections A/B compatible with the RL11 controller (MUD) usage with +5 on AA2/BA2, and GND on AC2/BC2/AT1/BT1.

    Summary:

    Code:
    DD11-A 4 slots: (1) UNI IN A/B; DEV C/D/E/F
                    (2) unused A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                    (3) power A; unused B; SPC C/D/E/F
                    (4) UNI OUT A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
    
    DD11-B 4 slots: (1) UNI IN A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                    (2) DF11 A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                    (3) DF11 A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                    (4) UNI OUT A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
    
    DD11-CK 4 slots: (1) UNI IN A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                     (2) MUD A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                     (3) MUD A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                     (4) UNI OUT A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
    
    DD11-DK 9 slots: (1) UNI IN A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                     (2) MUD A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                      |
                     (8) MUD A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                     (9) UNI OUT A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
    
    DD11-PK 9 slots: (1) UNI IN A/B; CPU C/D/E/F
                     (2) MUD A/B; CPU C/D/E/F
                     (3) MUD A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                      |
                     (8) MUD A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
                     (9) UNI OUT A/B; SPC C/D/E/F
    
    Note: MUD = Modified UNIBUS pinout
          UNI = Standard UNIBUS pinout
          SPC = UNIBUS Small Peripheral Controller pinout
          CPU = 11/34, 11/04 CPU board specific pinout
          DEV = DD11-A device control slot (appears to be same as SPC)
          DF11 = DF11 module pinout
    
    DD11-A/B were designed for use in pre BA11-K UNIBUS chassis; DD11-xK were designed for use in the BA11-K boxes (and subsequent compatibles).
    Don
    Last edited by AK6DN; May 25th, 2016 at 11:36 PM.

  8. #8

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    Thanks for the link to the DD11 notes page. I was having trouble finding this info. I still need to learn how they work, but I have found that I can look up the card and it usually tells you which backplane it's intended for. I don't need to understand everything to at least trust that the docs will know.

    I went through all of my serial cards and found M7856 and M7800's. Of those I separated them by those that disrupt the processor when installed vs. those that do not. I have a 7800-YA that I can use with a teletype, and load papertape programs that way. I am trying to boot RT11, but I need a serial interface first. I have to review each card jumper by jumper to see what they're set to do, and then decide which will be compatible with the RT11 M7762. I am unsure if RT11 expects a specific baud rate or if it adjusts to whatever the interface card is using. Still learning.

    b
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by billdeg View Post
    ....

    I am unsure if RT11 expects a specific baud rate or if it adjusts to whatever the interface card is using. Still learning.

    b
    The RT11 OS will use the baud rate set/wrapped on the card, itself provided its at the standard console address 777560-566.

    The details of the rate from the DL-11x type cards are not machine readable/controllable.

  10. #10

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    The RT11 OS will use the baud rate set/wrapped on the card, itself provided its at the standard console address 777560-566.

    The details of the rate from the DL-11x type cards are not machine readable/controllable.
    Wrapped on the serial card you mean? i.e. uses whatever the serial card says for port 777560, this port being the gateway to condition the characteristics of the serial signal?
    @ BillDeg:
    Web: vintagecomputer.net
    Twitter: @billdeg
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