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Thread: MSV11-R dipswitch settings?

  1. #1

    Default MSV11-R dipswitch settings?

    I just acquired a pair of MSV11-R memory boards (1 Mb, PMI) for the KDJ11-B CPU module I posted about recently. Although I would have sworn that I had the manual in PDF for that board, I must have been thinking of something else like the MSV11-J since I can't find anything about the -R either in my local archive or online.

    Is there anyone out there with a copy of the manual that would be willing to scan/photograph the configuration settings for the 8 dip switches on the board? Even a quick snapshot with a cellphone would be sufficient. Alternatively, if anyone has a paper manual but doesn't want to deal with it, I would be happy to scan it, ship the manual back, and make the scan available online.

  2. #2
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    From what I've seen the MSV11-R boards are not very common for PMI memory compared to the MSV11-J. I don't remember ever actually seeing any, just references to them. I'll look and see if I can find any references with configuration information.

  3. #3
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    Found a reference for the M7458 MSV11-R PMI memory module:

    EK-1184A-MG-001
    PDP-11/84 System Maintenance Guide
    http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp...aint_Nov86.pdf

    Page 2-18, Section 2.5.5, MSV11-R Memory Module
    Page 2-20, Table 2-7, MSV11-R Starting Address Selection
    Page 2-20, Table 2-8, MSV11-R CSR Address Selection

    Switches S1 and S2 select the starting address.
    Switches S3 and S4 should always be in the OFF position.
    Switches S5, S6, S7 and S8 select the CSR address.

  4. #4
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    Switches S1 and S2 of the switch pack configure the starting address. They enable the starting address on 1 Mbyte boundaries. See Table 2-7 for S1 and S2 settings.

    Code:
    Table 2-8 MSV11-R Starting Address Selection
    --------------------------------------------
    S1     S2     Staring Address
    --------------------------------------------
    OFF    OFF    00 000 000
    OFF    ON     04 000 000
    ON     OFF    10 000 000
    ON     ON     14 000 000
    Switches S5 through S8 on the switch pack configure the CSR address. The base CSR address is 17 772 100. Each successive address is the base plus 2. See Table 2-8 for the starting address for all 16 possible starting addresses.

    Code:
    Table 2-8 MSV11-R CSR Address Selection
    ---------------------------------------
    S5     S6     S7     S8     CSR Address
    ---------------------------------------
    ON     ON     ON     ON     17 772 100
    ON     ON     ON     OFF    17 772 102
    ON     ON     OFF    ON     17 772 104
    ON     ON     OFF    OFF    17 772 106
    ON     OFF    ON     ON     17 772 110
    ON     OFF    ON     OFF    17 772 112
    ON     OFF    OFF    ON     17 772 114
    ON     OFF    OFF    OFF    17 772 116
    OFF    ON     ON     ON     17 772 120
    OFF    ON     ON     OFF    17 772 122
    OFF    ON     OFF    ON     17 772 124
    OFF    ON     OFF    OFF    17 772 126
    OFF    OFF    ON     ON     17 772 130
    OFF    OFF    ON     OFF    17 772 132
    OFF    OFF    OFF    ON     17 772 134
    OFF    OFF    OFF    OFF    17 772 136

  5. #5

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    gslick to the rescue!

    I make it up to Seattle about once a month. If you're ever in the mood, PM me an address+brand and I would be happy to drop off a case of your favorite beer as a thank you. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to dig that info up.

    You're correct about the dearth of information on these boards. Were they a stopgap while the ASIC for the MSV11-J was developed/refined? I saw mention of incompatibilities between early MSV11-J ASICs and certain KDJ11-Bs.

    I'm assuming you took the time to type up the switch settings so that they are both archived and discoverable via internet searches. I'll upload some high resolution photos of the front and back of the board once it arrives. Is there anything else that would be useful to put in this thread?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by subgeniuskitty View Post
    You're correct about the dearth of information on these boards. Were they a stopgap while the ASIC for the MSV11-J was developed/refined? I saw mention of incompatibilities between early MSV11-J ASICs and certain KDJ11-Bs...

    Is there anything else that would be useful to put in this thread?
    Your post on PMI memory compatibility and KDJ-11Bs asking if is there anything else useful to put in this thread prompted me to emerge from my usual lurker state to tell what I experienced earlier this year. I bought two MSV11-JC (M8637-CA) 2MB memory boards and put them in one of my PDP-11/83 systems. It passed the XXDP memory diagnostic and I started to run RSX11M+ on it. After a few hours of running fine the system crashed. I rebooted it and several system task images were corrupted. Fortunately, I run a configuration with two SCSI2SD cards attached to a UC07 and each card is configured as a 150 MB system disk and a 1.5 GB data disk. I routinely run backups from one SCSI2SD card to the other so each microSD card has both disks. I put the original memory back in that 11/83 and took the new memory to a second 11/83 configured very similarly (except it is a BA123 cabinet and until now non-PMI memory) and it did the exact same thing. So at that point I decided to do a little reading and found:

    Micronote: #28 MSV11-J

    The MSV11-J has four versions, the MSV11-JB and MSV11-JC which are used in the PDP-11/84 UNIBUS systems and the MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE are used in either the MicroPDP-11/83 Q-bus systems, or the PDP-11/84 UNIBUS systems. All four modules use ECC memory for error correction, as well as using 256K bit MOS RAM parts on either a half or fully populated quad size module.

    NOTE: NONE OF THE FOUR MSV11-J MODULES CAN BE PLACED IN A Q/Q BACKPLANE SLOT. IF THIS IS ATTEMPTED PERMANENT DAMAGE WILL BE DONE TO THE BOARDS AND TO THE SYSTEM.

    The MSVII-JB (M8637-BA) is a half populated quad size PMI memory module containing 1MB of memory. The second version of the MSV11-J is the MSVI1-JC (M8639-CA), this is a fully populated MSVI1-JB quad size PMI memory module containing 2MB of memory. These two modules can not be used in a Q-bus system due to gate array incompatibilities, and can only be used in PDP-11/84 systems which use the UNIBUS/PMI bus interface (KTJ11-A). The third version of the MSV11-J is the MSV11-JD (M8639-DA) which is a half populated quad size PMI memory module containing 1MB of memory. The last version of the MSV11-J is the MSV11-JE, (M8639-EA) which is a fully populated MSV11-JD quad size PMI memory module containing 2MB of memory. These last two modules can be used with either the MicroPDP-11/83 system which uses the Q-bus/PMI bus interface or the PDP-11/84 system which was mentioned above.


    Fortunately, I bought the two M8637-CA cards from a local used DEC dealer who gladly exchanged them for two M8637-EH cards which worked perfectly in the PDP-11/83. I think the gate array incompatibility is related to block mode Qbus transactions, so that it appears to run ok at first but as block mode DMA occurs
    memory and data on disk get scrambled. At any rate I was able to recover both systems with little loss of time or data due to having good backups.

    I hope that this saves someone from a future problem due to the little known difference between MSV11-JB and -JC boards and the MSV11-JD and -JE. so if you have an 11/83 get the M8637-D or M8637-E. The number has a final letter that indicates the memory chip vendor (from what I understand) My good replacements were actually M8637-EH and M8637-ET.

    Of course, if you have a PDP-11/84, any of these memory cards will work for you.

    Matlock

  7. #7

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    My apologies for the delayed response. Life got busy and has only now settled down enough to return to my PDP-11 project.

    Photos are attached of the MSV11-R. The forum seems to be resizing them to a much lower resolution. If anyone wants original size images ( 3027x2048 ), send me a message.

    Unfortunately, both boards have intermittent problems and repeated memory tests show failures about 2/3 of the time. They appear to be 4-layer with planes on the inner two layers, so even without schematics I have a fighting chance. I'll post updates here as I progress.

    Matlock: Thanks for the information.

    IMG_0203.jpgIMG_20170107_013238.jpgIMG_20170107_012656.jpgIMG_20170107_011746.jpgIMG_0210.jpgIMG_0208.jpgIMG_0207.jpgIMG_0206.jpgIMG_0205.jpgIMG_20170107_021343.jpg
    Last edited by subgeniuskitty; April 23rd, 2017 at 11:28 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by subgeniuskitty View Post
    Unfortunately, both boards have intermittent problems and repeated memory tests show failures about 2/3 of the time.
    If you have multiple memory boards which all show similar intermittent problems another possibility is that the problem is actually in the CPU board. I saw something like that once while testing an M8192 KDJ11-A CPU system which showed memory test errors with multiple memory boards that I tried. I eventually tried a different M8192 KDJ11-A CPU and the memory test errors went away. One thing you can try if you do happen to have another M8190 KDJ11-B CPU to try in your case.

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