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Thread: Attempting to copy files between diskettes - Model 1 NewDOS 80/v2

  1. #1

    Default Attempting to copy files between diskettes - Model 1 NewDOS 80/v2

    Back in the day, I only had a single drive system, so whenever I copied a file from one disk to another, it required lots of swapping.

    Fast forward to the future, and now I have Peter Bartlett's MIRE and two floppy drives.
    I'm using a standard 5.25 40 track single sided and a 3.5 720k drive.

    I have PDRIVE settings as follows on my boot disk:

    0 TI=CK, TD=E, TC=40, TSR=3, GPL=2, DDSL=17, DDGA=2

    1 TI=C, TD=G, TC=80, SPT=18, TSR=3, GPL=2, DDSL=17, DDGA=2

    I'm using a standard Model 1 "toothless" cable configured for Drive 0 and Drive 1.

    NewDOS/80 v2 boots perfectly on the 5.25" drive 0, and I was able to format a disk in drive 1 - so I am *ASSUMING* drive 1 is working properly.
    (I haven't messed with any jumpers on the 3.5" drive 1 - it seems to be working since the format verify passes)

    I have tried to copy the files from 0 to 1 via:


    COPY 0 1 09/10/17 CBF USR NFMT NDMW

    It starts the copy process

    and then errors out with:

    ERROR WHILE VERIFYING DESTINATION SECTOR 0
    WITHIN FILE "SOME FILE"

    Am I using the wrong syntax for two drives?
    Is my cable or drive hardware configuration (3.5) causing the problem?

    If FORMAT works - doesn't it mean I have the hardware configuration correct?

    suggestions appreciated (besides switch to LDOS - blech )

    Jim

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Williamstown Victoria Australia
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Hi Jim

    after you format the disk in drive 1 (80) Track, issue the command " FREE " to see the size of drive 1 ??
    You will need all the pins in the cable otherwise the second side will not be seen ??
    Good Luck

    Ray
    If it ain't Broke then PLEASE DONT fix it.
    Procrastinators Unite.
    I keep telling you I am Not Pedantic.

  3. #3

    Default

    After formatting the drive - there are (supposedly) 288 grans free with 3 being in use due to BOOT/SYS and DIR/SYS

    When I created the cable, I pulled pins 32, 10, (12 or 14) depending on the position.

    I wasn't sure which pin was side select - the only reference I could find was a web page for adding 3.5" drives to a Model III.

    If pin 32 *IS* side select, it may be possible that only side 0 of the 3.5" disk was formatted - 2x and verified 2x?

    I can replace the connector for D1 with one that has pins 10 and 14 removed or pins 10 and 12 removed. (Can't remember which is D0 and which is D1 w/out referring to a spare 4 disk cable I keep around)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Mitchell, SD
    Posts
    100

    Default

    I'd recommend using a cable with all pins intact. Set drive select (DS) jumpers on the drives. Does the 3.5" drive have jumpers? Was it from a PC? if so, DS1 is the norm. You also need to be able to change DC to RDY (detect change to ready).

  5. #5

    Default

    32 was used on a Model I for drive 3 OR side select which is why you can't have a drive 3 if you are using double sided drives, not sure which one was used on a Model III. I've seen a few drives with 32 jumpered to a different spot, probably to be backwards compatible with the Model I.

    Put 32 back in. The pull up resistor on the ready line was the solution I used, but you wouldn't be able to format if it if that was the issue, it would fail immediately.

  6. #6

    Default

    Jim,
    If your 3.5" Floppy is strapped for Drive Select 1 (0,1,2,3) then it should work if you pull Pin 2 of the 3.5" Floppy LOW.

    I typically use a small ADAPTER (MALE Edge Card to 34 Pin Female) as my Signal conversion board. I created some PCB's and
    jumper or cut what I need to get the interface correct. That way I have a Cable with all 34 Conductors & Pins from the FDC
    to my Adapter Board. And the Adapter attaches to the 3.5" floppy for a quick and easy conversion of Signals.

    Pin 32 of the Model 1 (EI) is DS3, and isn't correct on the following .PNG because that PNG is for Model 3 & 4. But, you get the idea.

    If you would like one or two Adapters I can supply them for a small fee to pay for PCB, Connector, and postage.

    See the attached .png file.

    RS3-1.jpg

    Larry
    Last edited by ldkraemer; September 11th, 2017 at 05:48 AM.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibs View Post
    32 was used on a Model I for drive 3 OR side select which is why you can't have a drive 3 if you are using double sided drives, not sure which one was used on a Model III. I've seen a few drives with 32 jumpered to a different spot, probably to be backwards compatible with the Model I.

    Put 32 back in. The pull up resistor on the ready line was the solution I used, but you wouldn't be able to format if it if that was the issue, it would fail immediately.
    Making a new connector with just 10 & 14 missing fixed it.
    Pin 32 was the key.

    I just found it odd that the verify after the format worked, I guess it can't tell one side of the disk from another in that operation.

    thanks!

  8. #8

    Default

    So I had the same thing last weekend happen to me. I was testing out two double sided drives with a cable that had pulled 32. I was writing to them and things were going good then the disk got corrupted. Hmm, let me try that again. After third time I realized I was using an old cable. (Model I with a MIRE as well).

    Hell half the time I was forgetting to type in DDEN and finally sysgenned it.

    Remember, Peter warned us quite a bit, since you have a double sided drive, you are not able to use 3 and DS at the same time. In fact, when side two is selected, you'll get a select light on that drive and drive 3 at the same time. At least I did on my rig.

  9. #9

    Default

    Well,
    the copying worked great with the new connector - but when I attempted to execute the /cmd files I was copying over, I ran into more snags.

    Half of the files worked as expected.

    The other half would immediately error out with:

    "CAN"T EXTEND FILE VIA READ" (I'm sure this error message makes perfect sense to the person who wrote it - but to me - nada)

    Dunno if this error message is specific to NewDOS/80 vs2.0 or not - this is the only DOS I've ever used...

    The CMD files that give me this error load just fine off the 35 year old floppies I'm trying to preserve on 3.5" disks...

    I haven't messed with any jumpers on the 3.5 drive yet - since it SEEMED like it was working, but I'm sure it was last used on PC clone.

    I don't foresee a need to ever use more than 3 drives. Once I upgrade my MIRE, I plan on booting off an emulated drive 0, and remapping my current drive 0 and 1 to 1 and 2.

  10. #10

    Default

    That sounds very much like what I had happen when it thought it was reading and writing to side two but it wasnít. Are the pins in according to the drawing above? Remember to put a 1K on pin 2 tied to common. Iíve used brand new 3.5 floppyís with that wiring setup and never had an issue.

    These machines cant tell which side they are on, or donít check them, something Roy Soltoff wrote about in the first LDOSQuarterly that is available in PDF on Tim Mannís website.

    Do you have a copy of SU+ 3.2? It supported Double Sided drives and you could see if sectors 18-36 are the same as 0-17 on a given track. Sure way to tell if its reading from side 0 or 1.

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