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Thread: Poly 88 case

  1. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by falter View Post
    Question.. do you know of any documentation for the 0.75 'disk' EPROM I have? I've tried putting it in my now-working setup and it just gives me a screen full of garbage. I'm wondering if you have to change the memory address select or jumper something on the card for it to work.
    That is the first PROM of a two PROM set, that along with the 4.0 Poly monitor PROM, provided the “BIOS” for System-88. Your PROM goes in the middle PROM socket (0400h), with the 4.0 PROM in the right socket (0000h), and the missing version 7.5 PROM in the far left socket (0800h).

    Source code for the Poly 4.0 monitor and disassembly of the version 7.5 PROMs (both PROMs in a single source file) can be found here: http://deramp.com/downloads/polymorp...iginal%20ROMs/

    A newer version (8.2) of the PROMs can be found there as well.

    Mike

  2. #292

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    Hi Mike
    I only had a few minutes to look at stuff you had. It is a great collection of the Poly stuff.
    I wasn't sure about the other EPROM, since it was just the single EPROM and I knew it needed all three for the System 88. I think he will have enough with the cassette setup but if he ever comes across a disk controller, making it a System 88 can be done with the information you've collected.
    I was reading through the file that I'd had on how to use the TPERR. Even I'd have a hard time figuring it out. It was a most useful program when repairing tape images of BASIC programs. The typical error was to have a bit or few dropped, such that all the bits would be shifted, across the bytes. I'd write a simple bit shift program and shift the bits until the remainder would look like basic again. Then I'd analyse the program to figure out the missing part. Once corrected, I'd write the tape images back to the tape. I was able to restore several tapes that had folded sections of tape. Most I was able to recover by tightly winding the tapes but some required the bit level repair.
    The TPERR was also used to edit records headers and such. I wanted StarTrek to auto start as well as use the SAVE extension I'd made to TinyBasic( it also had PEEK and POKE ). I was able to patch together a tape with all the parts using TPERR. The hardest part was keeping track of all the offsets. TPERR keeps all the headers. It took a lot of side notes on a piece of paper as not all the tape records were maximal length. There were some long and some short. So indexing through the record was a pain. I should have written a record step program but never got around to it.
    Still, I hope that someday someone will have a tape that they want to recover the image from and they'll find TPERR useful.
    Dwight
    Last edited by Dwight Elvey; June 28th, 2018 at 06:51 AM.

  3. #293

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    Here is what I'd do to make a program to make the PC a keyboard for the Poly88.
    First some information:
    IBM PC connector
    1 STROBE
    2 D0
    3 D1
    4 D2
    5 D3
    6 D4
    7 D5
    8 D6
    9 D9
    10 ACK
    11 BUSY
    12 PAPER ERROR
    13 SEL
    14 AUTO FEED
    15 ERROR
    16 INITIALIZE
    17 SELIN
    18 TO 25 GROUND

    Depending on how may ports you have:
    LPT1 3BC
    LPT2 378
    LPT3 278
    or
    LPT1 378
    LPT2 278
    or
    LPT1 278

    The base address + 2 is the control port Bit 0 is the inverse of STROBE.

    In Forth Code it might look like:

    Code:
    HEX
    278 CONSTANT LPT1
    
    : DELAY ( - )  \ DO SOMETHING TO WASTE TIME
       1000 0 DO 5555 4444 / DROP LOOP ;
    
    : POLY-KB ( - )
       BEGIN
        KEY DUP
       ( DUP EMIT ) \ if I wanted to see it on the PC.
        1B -  \ break out on an escape key
       WHILE  \ while not the escape key
        LPT1 PC!  \ send to the Poly88 keyboard input
        1  LPT1 2 + PC!  \ strobe it
        DELAY \ allow the Poly 88 enough time to see the input
        0 LPT1 2 + PC!  \ clear the strobe, ready for the next key
       REPEAT
       DROP ;  \ always keep a clean stack in Forth
    Depending on what Forth I was running it might change the PC! to some other word. Maybe someone else could help with some C or BASIC.
    Dwight
    Last edited by Dwight Elvey; June 28th, 2018 at 01:36 PM.

  4. #294

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    Here is my attempt at GW BASIC. It may not work but it should be close.
    Dwight

    Code:
    10 A$ = INKEY
    20 IF LEN(A$)=0 THEN 10
    30 A% = ASC(A$)
    40 REM MAY NEED DIFFERENT PORT
    50 OUT &H278,A%
    60 OUT &H27A,1
    70 B=TIMER+0.1
    80 C=TIMER
    90 IF C<B THEN 80
    100 OUT &H27A,0
    110 GOTO 10
    The TIMER function might not work at midnight or right on the hour when the time is reset or synchronized.
    This shouldn't be an issue. The port number may be different, see my previous post. The strobe port is always the port number plus 2. I don't like BASIC much but it is a simple program.
    Last edited by Dwight Elvey; June 29th, 2018 at 10:22 AM.

  5. #295
    Join Date
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    Okay so I have my GRI 756 keyboard. Pretty nice. Interesting how closely the keys match the layout of my Netronics keyboard, even the font looks the same.

    So I was reading the manual trying to figure out how to hook it up to my Poly 88 and now i have a slight problem - the keyboard requires -12V. No problem, the Poly VTI board will supply a neg voltage - you just need to install the correct caps, resistors and diode into the marked spots on the board. My VTI does not have these installed so I presume it's not supplying any negative voltage to the pin.

    I'm a bit stuck in understanding what I need in the way of values for the zener, resistor, etc. The manual tries to explain it here on page 22 but it just sort of goes over my head. Anyone feel like giving me a primer?

  6. #296

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    I don't know what your keyboard requires but if we assume a bias current of 5 to 10 ma someplace. It may be more or less. Lets say the zener is going to use about 10 ma. The total current for the resistor is the about 20 ma.
    It will likely take the raw input voltage of around 18 volts. That leave 6 volts to drop across the resistor. 6/.020=300 ohms. 6*.02 = .12 or little less then 1/8 watt. A 1/4W 300 ohm or 330 ohm resistor should be fine. The capacitor can likely be a .1uf and be fine.
    The zener could be a 1N5242 as 12V rated at 0.5W. If there was no load from the keyboard the zener has to eat all 20 ma. 12*.02= .24 watts or about half the rated value.
    What more do you need?
    Dwight

  7. #297
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    Thanks muchly Dwight. I am rereading it severally to try and understand the concept.

    I think the three parts are the basics required. I do need to locate a pinout for the 25pin keyboard connector that plugs into the one on the vti so you can connect keyboard on the back of the machine. But for the negative voltage I think those are the only components we need.

  8. #298

    Default PolyMorphic CP/M

    Hey Dwight,

    I am looking for something for the Poly system, that could be very rare. I am looking for a PolyMorphic version of CP/M. It was not widely distributed, which is what makes it so special.
    I would love to download a copy and share that with my friend.

    This is what I have read, on my friend's website at http://deramp.com/polymorphic.html

    CP/M was not common on the Poly-88 because CP/M requires RAM starting at address zero and the Poly CPU board has PROM in the first 3K of address space.
    Even though the on-board PROM on the Poly CPU can be disabled under software control, keyboard input and serial I/O can only be performed using interrupts
    and only while the PROM address space on the CPU board is enabled. This means implementing CP/M is not as simple as just disabling the on-board PROM and
    running CP/M.

    To make PolyMorphic computers more CP/M friendly, Martin Eberhard has written an extension to the original Poly-88 PROM monitor he calls "Polex." Polex installs
    in the second PROM socket on the CPU board and is automatically called and initialized by the original Poly-88 PROM. Along with a few useful operator commands, Polex
    also manages real-time swapping of RAM and PROM in the lower address space and provides console and serial I/O entry points for use by a CP/M BIOS. Even with the
    Polex PROM in place, all original functions of the Poly-88 remain and operate the same.

    Eventually, PolyMorphic themselves provided CP/M for their computers, however, this required a new 8K RAM board designed specifically for CP/M and significant mods
    to the CPU board.

  9. #299

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    In a huge load of equipment I picked up recently, one of the 8813's is modified to run Poly's own CP/M. In the boxes of documentation I picked up, I have found the drawings that show the mods to the CPU board and the video board to support Poly's original CP/M. Unfortunately, I have yet to find anything that documents this "new 8K RAM board" that swaps between E000h and 0000h as part of Poly CP/M support. From what I can tell, this board is actually a modified version of their 16K board. I have also found their 16K board with a very similar set of mods but stuffed with 4116's instead of 4096's. Maybe they made it a 64K board in which the upper 8K could swap down to 0000h?

    I have a lot of disks to go through still, but at first pass, I didn't see anything related to CP/M. But since once of the machines in the collection is a CP/M machine, I'm thinking there must be Poly CP/M disks in here somewhere.

    Mike

  10. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by deramp5113 View Post
    In a huge load of equipment I picked up recently, one of the 8813's is modified to run Poly's own CP/M. In the boxes of documentation I picked up, I have found the drawings that show the mods to the CPU board and the video board to support Poly's original CP/M. Unfortunately, I have yet to find anything that documents this "new 8K RAM board" that swaps between E000h and 0000h as part of Poly CP/M support. From what I can tell, this board is actually a modified version of their 16K board. I have also found their 16K board with a very similar set of mods but stuffed with 4116's instead of 4096's. Maybe they made it a 64K board in which the upper 8K could swap down to 0000h?

    I have a lot of disks to go through still, but at first pass, I didn't see anything related to CP/M. But since once of the machines in the collection is a CP/M machine, I'm thinking there must be Poly CP/M disks in here somewhere.

    Mike
    Hey Mike,

    I have been asking around for this. I have contacted some of the collectors that I know, That have some knowledge with the PolyMorphic Systems. I have not received anything positive back yet, but I will keep searching.

    Dwight has a lot of knowledge on all of these systems, so he may be able to shed some light on this matter. I would like to find a former employee or a distributor, as they may have a collection that might include the CP/M software that we are looking for.

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