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Thread: DEC RL01/RL02 emulator doesn't work with DE10-Lite board

  1. #1

    Default DEC RL01/RL02 emulator doesn't work with DE10-Lite board

    I have build the RL emulator by Reinhard. It works with the DE0-Nano board fine, thanks!

    But, it doesn't work with the DE10-Lite board.

    I am using LSI-11/23 with RLV12 I/F.

    The console log is:
    ?
    @
    ?BOOT-U-I/O error

    000724
    @

    and the debug message from the emulator is:

    ****** FPGA-based RL01/RL02 EMULATOR ******
    MAX10/DE10-Lite based Emulator Version V.1.5
    >******************************************<
    > Boot from onchip-flash(V16.1) <
    *********************!**********************
    In cooperation with www.computermuseum-muenchen.de
    (c) Reinhard Heuberger WWW.PDP11GY.COM

    >>>>> WLAN = OFF <<<<<
    >>>>>> DEBUG-MODE = ON <<<<<<
    >>>>> Select mode = OFF <<<<<
    >>>>> Device Type = RL02 <<<<

    Configurated RL01/RL02 Unit(s): DL0: DL2: DL3:

    ******** ONLINE MODE ********
    Read configured RL-units from SD-Card

    Unit number: 0 > read from file RL02_0.DEC
    .................................................. ....
    Unit number: 1 file RL02_1.DEC not found: copy DL0 area

    Unit number: 2 > read from file RL02_2.DEC
    .................................................. ....
    Unit number: 3 > read from file RL02_3.DEC
    .................................................. ....
    selected unit: 0
    ************ S T A R T RL01/RL02-Simulator *************
    Started with operating mode: 0100000010100001



    Drive command received: 0000000000000001
    Cylinder address difference : 0
    Request with no action
    Drive command received: 0000000000000001
    Cylinder address difference : 0
    Request with no action
    Drive command received: 0000000000000001
    Cylinder address difference : 0
    Request with no action
    Drive command received: 0000001000000101
    Cylinder address difference : 4 Using head 0
    New cylinder address: 46080
    Point to track address: 46080
    Drive command received: 0000000110000101
    Cylinder address difference : 3 Using head 0
    New cylinder address: 80640
    Point to track address: 80640
    Drive command received: 0000000000000001
    Cylinder address difference : 0
    Request with no action

    The RL emulator with DE10-Lite emulator doesn't return error for INI and COPY/DEVICE commands, but DIR command doesn't work.

    I made five PCBs and have six DE10-Lite board, but I couldn't use them.

    I found similar error at
    http://www.pdp-11.de/index.php/dec-d...0102-emulator/, but I couldn't find solution.

    Could you help me to enjoy with the RL emulator?

  2. #2

    Default

    Hi,

    This is indeed the same error I have. (Except, that on my setup the DIR Command return the content of the disk)
    I were in contact with Reinhard, and he has send me his RT-11 Image files which I where able to boot.
    He thinks it is related to RT-11 version and RL11 driver I use, but I have not found the time, to verify this in detail and to simply install another RT-11 version from Floppy..

    I have only the DE10 Lite boards, and can confirm, that a fresh insdtalled RT-11 5.4G will not boot on both.

    As I have not found any others with this issue I was thinking it is related to my setup.


    Many Greetings
    Ulrich
    Last edited by User78; January 9th, 2018 at 03:46 AM.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by User78 View Post
    Hi,

    This is indeed the same error I have. (Except, that on my setup the DIR Command return the content of the disk)

    Hi, actually, I programmed with Quartus 17.1 (free edition). So, I uninstalled it and installed 16.1. I got different result. The DIR command works but any write access, like COPY and INI, crashes the image.

    I booted from DL0, real RL02 drive. DL1, DL2 and DL3 are emulated disk. The image files were downloaded from Reinhard's website. DL1 is the clone of RL02_0.DEC. The console log is
    Code:
    @
    RT-11SJ  V04.00  
    
    .ASSIGN LS LP
    
    .SET TT SCOPE
    
    .SET EDIT KED
    
    .ASSIGN DL1 DK1
    and the emulator log is
    Code:
          *******  FPGA-based RL01/RL02 EMULATOR  ****** 
           MAX10/DE10-Lite based Emulator Version V.1.5             
           >******************************************<             
                > Boot from onchip-flash(V16.1) <                   
           *********************!**********************             
        In cooperation with www.computermuseum-muenchen.de          
              (c) Reinhard Heuberger WWW.PDP11GY.COM                
    
                  >>>>>      WLAN = OFF   <<<<<
                  >>>>>> DEBUG-MODE = ON <<<<<<
                  >>>>> Select mode = OFF <<<<<
                  >>>>> Device Type = RL02 <<<<
    
         Configurated RL01/RL02 Unit(s): DL1: DL2: DL3: 
    
                  ******** ONLINE MODE ********
              Read configured RL-units from SD-Card  
    
           Unit number: 0   not configured, will be skipped! 
    
           Unit number: 1  >  read from file RL02_1.DEC 
    ..........................................................................................
           Unit number: 2  >  read from file RL02_2.DEC 
    ..........................................................................................
           Unit number: 3  >  read from file RL02_3.DEC 
    ..........................................................................................
                       selected unit: 1 
     ************ S T A R T RL01/RL02-Simulator ************* 
     Started with operating mode:            0100000010100001
    The DIR command returns the content of the emulated disk as
    Code:
    .DIR DL1:
     
    DL0DL0.INF    59                 SWAP  .SYS    27P 02-Sep-87
    RT11SJ.SYS    79P 15-Jan-88      DD    .SYS     5P 02-Sep-87
    DY    .SYS     4P 02-Sep-87      LS    .SYS     5P 02-Sep-87
    SL    .SYS    17P 02-Sep-87      TT    .SYS     2P 02-Sep-87
    VM    .SYS     3P 02-Sep-87      DU    .SYS     8P 02-Sep-87
    LD    .SYS     8P 02-Sep-87      DL    .SYS     5  17-Oct-84
    STARTS.COM     1  28-Mar-99      DIR   .SAV    19  02-Sep-87
    PIP   .SAV    30  02-Sep-87      DUP   .SAV    49  02-Sep-87
    RESORC.SAV    25  02-Sep-87      KED   .SAV    58  02-Sep-87
    UCL   .SAV    16  02-Sep-87      CREF  .SAV     6  02-Sep-87
    SRCCOM.SAV    26  02-Sep-87      BASIC .SAV    53  04-Apr-83
    MACRO .SAV    61  02-Sep-87      DUMP  .SAV     9  02-Sep-87
    MKDL0 .BAS     1                 MKDL2 .BAS     1           
    MKDL3 .BAS     1                 MKDL1 .BAS     1           
     28 Files, 579 Blocks
     19803 Free blocks
    and the log is
    Code:
    *********************************************
    ****  Current RAM_Address =   6000000 
    ****  Switch Unit Number from  1  to 1   **** 
    ****  New RAM address : 6000000
    *********************************************
    *********************************************
    ****  Current RAM_Address =   6000000 
    ****  Switch Unit Number from  1  to 1   **** 
    ****  New RAM address : 6000000
    *********************************************
    Drive command received: 0000100000000101
      Cylinder address difference : 16    Using head 0   
       New cylinder address:     184320 
       Point to track address:   184320 
    Drive command received: 0000100000000001
      Cylinder address difference : 16    Using head 0   
       New cylinder address:     0 
       Point to track address:   0 
    *********************************************
    ****  Current RAM_Address =   6000000 
    ****  Switch Unit Number from  1  to 3   **** 
    ****  New RAM address : 18000000
    *********************************************
    *********************************************
    ****  Current RAM_Address =   18000000 
    ****  Switch Unit Number from  3  to 1   **** 
    ****  New RAM address : 6000000
    *********************************************
    *********************************************
    ****  Current RAM_Address =   6000000 
    ****  Switch Unit Number from  1  to 3   **** 
    ****  New RAM address : 18000000
    *********************************************
    Then, I copied the file from DL0 to DL1 as
    Code:
    .COPY/SYSTEM NL.SYS DL1:
     Files copied:
    DK:NL.SYS      to DL1:NL.SYS
    and got the log as
    Code:
    *********************************************
    ****  Current RAM_Address =   18000000 
    ****  Switch Unit Number from  3  to 1   **** 
    ****  New RAM address : 6000000
    *********************************************
    Drive command received: 1111111110010101
      Cylinder address difference : 511    Using head 1   
       New cylinder address:     5886720 
       Point to track address:   5892480 
    Drive command received: 1111111110000001
      Cylinder address difference : 511    Using head 0   
       New cylinder address:     0 
       Point to track address:   0
    After the copy command, I cannot access to the emulated disk like
    Code:
    .DIR DL1:
     
    ?DIR-F-Illegal directory
    Also, there was no message to the serial port of the emulator. I tied the INI command, it didn't work
    Code:
    .INI DL1:
    DL1:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y
    
    .DIR DL1:
     
    ?DIR-F-Illegal directory
    Also, no message from the serial port.

    Quote Originally Posted by User78 View Post
    He thinks it is related to my RT-11 version and RL11 driver, but I have not found the time, to verify this in detail.
    I guess somthing like a timing issue, but I'm 0% sure.

    coredump

  4. #4

    Default

    First of all, it's a frustrating communication for me. Almost 8 months ago I announced the new
    RL emulator but never(!) received an feedback, E-mail, PW or other message. Instead, it is now
    claimed that the emulator does not work with DE10-Lite board. This claim is wrong.
    Your problem:
    The debug message : "Cylinder address difference : 0 Request with no action" indicates a cable
    and/or termination problem or a problem with your PCB board in your environment. To get your
    problem fixed, I refer to my manuel: http://fafner.dyndns.org/~heuberger/...Manuel_V15.pdf
    First of all, use the offline mode as described on page 8 and 9.
    Secondly, use my 3 bootable RT-11 images from: fafner.dyndns.org/~heuberger/rlfertig/Images.zip
    These images are bootable for DL0, DL2 and DL3 with RT-11SJ V05.04C and BASIC on it. If you send
    me an E-Mail , I can send you the official RT-11 V5.1 and V5.2. More images can optained from the
    internet and may be able to convert to the .DEC format via the utility from my homepage.
    Some notes:
    - You can't copy BAD BLOCKS ( BBR area ) using the command copy/device !!!
    This will result in a boot and/or directory error.
    The emulator is designed to simulata an error free ( EF ) cartridge.
    - You are using Quartus V17.1 ? As far as I know, SD-RAM support is not provided in the free
    edition and will not work on the DE10-Lite.
    > I don't have RT-11 5.4G. I only can support you, if you send me an .DEC image via E-Mail.
    > Please use E-Mail communication because I do not have always access to the forum.
    Reinhard

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PDP11GY View Post
    First of all, it's a frustrating communication for me. Almost 8 months ago I announced the new
    RL emulator but never(!) received an feedback, E-mail, PW or other message. Instead, it is now
    claimed that the emulator does not work with DE10-Lite board. This claim is wrong.
    Sorry to trouble you and thaks for reply.

    I just have time to build your emulator. I have already found it in your website but I couldn't try it then.

    The debug message : "Cylinder address difference : 0 Request with no action" indicates a cable
    and/or termination problem or a problem with your PCB board in your environment.
    Many thanks! I'll check the cable and PCB again.

    Secondly, use my 3 bootable RT-11 images from: fafner.dyndns.org/~heuberger/rlfertig/Images.zip
    These images are bootable for DL0, DL2 and DL3 with RT-11SJ V05.04C and BASIC on it.
    Yes. I'm using those images. I could make a bootable real RX02 disk from the image as:
    Code:
    .COPY/SYSTEM DL2:*.* DY0:*.*
    .COPY/BOOT DL2:RT11SJ.SYS DY0:RT11SJ.SYS
    - You are using Quartus V17.1 ? As far as I know, SD-RAM support is not provided in the free
    edition and will not work on the DE10-Lite.
    I'll go back to 16.1.

    > Please use E-Mail communication because I do not have always access to the forum.
    I'll use E-mail.

    coredump

  6. #6

    Default

    I got conlusion.

    The cable is OK and the emulator PCB might be OK.
    My RLV12 is broken. Maybe it got problem just after palying with DE0-Nano board.

    I carefully tested the cable and PCB, but I didn't find any problem. So, I checked the system without emulator, only with real RL02 drive. Then, I got the same problem after the write operation.

    Next, I removed the working RLV12 from the another LSI-11 system. It works without problem.

    It is the timing problem of my unluck.

    What I need to do is to find RLV12 from somewhere for replacement.

    coredump

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Westchester County, NY
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    Why don't you try to fix your broken RLV12? You even already have a working one for reference as you troubleshoot the problem.

    Lou

  8. #8

    Default

    Hi,
    Quote Originally Posted by Lou - N2MIY View Post
    Why don't you try to fix your broken RLV12? You even already have a working one for reference as you troubleshoot the problem.
    Thanks for suggestion. I'll try to repair the broken RLV12, fighting with oscilloscope.

    coredump

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Westchester County, NY
    Posts
    1,240

    Default

    For good measure, run diagnostics VRLA and VRLB, the diskless tests, first and make sure they pass (they probably will). They test an amazing amount, but not the final drive bus interfaces, which is where I think you will find your problem. The RLV12 user's guide is also essential, as is the print set. I pulled my RL notebook from the shelf and see from my notes that I did troubleshoot and replace a 75107 drive bus receiver on one of my RLV12s. From the trouble you described earlier I think there is a drive bus interface weakness. One sheet of the print set is devoted to the drive bus interface, and with your scope you should be able to see if a line is weakly driven or excessively loaded.

    Given how expensive qbus boards are anymore, it makes sense to fix one has when it breaks.

    Lou

  10. #10

    Default

    I guess the problem is in a block which is independent of reading operations because I can read both real and emulated RL drives. I have the RL12 Field Maintenance Print Set and am reading it. I also suspect the bus driver IC. I have already ordered 75113 to replace E112, driving WR DATA and WR GATE. I'll try to find other ICs.

    coredump

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