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Thread: reading single-sided format floppies in a PC with a 5.25 inch 1.2 Mbyte drive?

  1. #11
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    Ok, so not a dos disk then.

    If you just need to get the bits off, ImageDisk would still be easier with less guesswork. Although if your FDC can't handle FM encoding you will need a different tool for the job.

  2. #12
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    Not a DOS disk (those are easy), and not a 8 inch drive either. The information on the ND floppy disks page seems to imply that ND (Norsk Data) did use the same formats on both 8 inch and 5.25 inch media (if possible). Yes, I probably need to set up so I can run TestFDC on that machine to figure out what that FDC is capable of.
    Torfinn

  3. #13
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    It's only possible if the 5.25" disks and drive are high-density. Japanese PC98 did this, but not in FM.

    What does AnaDisk say about them? (You can fit AD and a DOS boot easily on the same floppy)

  4. #14
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    Those 5 1/4" floppies and drives are indeed high-density. It's an unusual case - normally the vendor (ND) used a high density/double sided format, but occasionally they would apparently "re-image" original 8" data on (HD) 5 1/4" media. Probably in the aforementioned 0b format, not yet confirmed, but I too have found a couple of floppies which appear to suffer from the same problem. I can't read them with my 200x era Intel 82077AA-based FDC controller (it can't do FM).

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    So would a Kryoflux board be worth getting to create boot disks for old machines? Is there an archive of Kryoflux formatted images that exists?
    Spread the joy of Vintage Addiction

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8008guy View Post
    So would a Kryoflux board be worth getting to create boot disks for old machines? Is there an archive of Kryoflux formatted images that exists?
    I personally think a Kryoflux is worthwhile, although I also think it is important to have multiple avenues for creating/reading disks.

    It is possible to create Kryoflux stream images from common IMA/IMG disk image or IMD ImageDisk archives using the HxC disk tool software. These can be written by a Kryoflux and read on real PCs.

    Keep in mind though that the Kryoflux folks view their product as an archival tool, although it can be used for much more.

  7. #17
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    OK, I ran TestFDC from a DOS floppy (for some reason DOSBox only created "morse code" output instead of actual readable characters). These are the results
    Code:
    Report on FDC capabilities, issued 24/03/2018 23:54:34:
    Single-Density at 250 kbps ............................ Not tested
    Single-Density at 300 kbps ............................ Passed
    Single-Density at 500 kbps ............................ Passed
    Double-Density at 250 kbps ............................ Not tested
    Double-Density at 300 kbps ............................ Passed
    Double-Density at 500 kbps ............................ Passed
    Double-Density at 250 kbps / 128 byte sectors ......... Not tested
    Double-Density at 300 kbps / 128 byte sectors ......... Passed
    Double-Density at 500 kbps / 128 byte sectors ......... Passed
    Torfinn

  8. #18
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    DOSBox? Uh, that's an emulator. It doesn't know squat about your real hardware.

    Passed all tests? Nice. What motherboard, chipset, and I/O chip, if applicable, is that?

    That means that using ImageDisk or Teledisk you should be able to read almost any FM or MFM encoded disks that are not copy protected.

  9. #19
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    Yes, I know DOSBox is an emulator. But someone here suggested that TestFDC might run in it, so I amused myself by trying it.
    The machine is a Dell OptiPlex GX300, I don't know what motherboard and chipset it has (haven't looked). It has served me well so far, so I keep it around for imaging duties.
    Torfinn

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    Two things: Format 0b is indeed single-density/FM. Assuming it's an 8" drive, you also need an FM-capable FDC (check that out with Dave Dunfield's testfdc utility).

    So the parameters to the fdcontrol should be 8,2,0xff,40,77,500,1,80,0,0,-mfm
    FWIW, I tried the parameters you suggested
    Code:
    root@kg-t2# fdcontrol -s 8,512,0xff,40,77,500,1,80,0,0,-mfm /dev/fd1
    root@kg-t2# fdcontrol -vF /dev/fd1
    /dev/fd1: 308 KB media type
    	Format:		8,512,0xff,0x28,77,500,1,0x50,0,0
    	Sector size:	512
    	Sectors/track:	8
    	Heads/cylinder:	1
    	Cylinders/disk:	77
    	Transfer rate:	500 kbps
    	Sector gap:	40
    	Format gap:	80
    	Interleave:	0
    	Side offset:	0
    	Flags		<>
    Alas, it didn't work. I got errors when trying to read the floppies, as before.
    Update: scratch that - after trying a few more floppies, it works. Even the floppies that failed first now works. Perhaps the drive / fdc combo is marginal, or perhaps it needs to be "warmed up". Anyway, results:
    Code:
    tingo@kg-t2$ dd if=/dev/fd1 of=./10758B04-EN-01S.image bs=512
    616+0 records in
    616+0 records out
    315392 bytes transferred in 115.933216 secs (2720 bytes/sec)
    tingo@kg-t2$ ll
    total 1012
    drwxr-xr-x  2 tingo  users  -    512 Mar 25 14:21 ./
    drwxr-xr-x  5 tingo  users  -    512 Mar 25 14:05 ../
    -rw-r--r--  1 tingo  users  - 315392 Mar 25 14:12 10758B03-XX-02S.image
    -rw-r--r--  1 tingo  users  - 315392 Mar 25 14:18 10758B03-XX-03S.image
    -rw-r--r--  1 tingo  users  - 315392 Mar 25 14:23 10758B04-EN-01S.image
    tingo@kg-t2$ ll 10758B04-EN-01S.image
    -rw-r--r--  1 tingo  users  - 315392 Mar 25 14:23 10758B04-EN-01S.image
    tingo@kg-t2$ ndfs -t 10758B04-EN-01S.image
    Directory name            : 10758B04-EN-01S
    Object file index pointer : 150 SI: 0x1 (indexed)
    User file index pointer   : 152 SI: 0x1 (indexed)
    Bit file pointer          : 72 SI: 0x0 (contiguous)
    No. of unreserved pages   : 1
    Files:
      0   0: I       55 pages    110622 bytes 1986-08-28 08:33:17 (FLOPPY-USER)BG-PART1-EN-B04:BRF
      0   1: I        3 pages      6144 bytes 1986-01-23 12:15:48 (FLOPPY-USER)INST-BG132-B04:PROG
      0   2: I        1 page        415 bytes 1986-01-23 12:15:59 (FLOPPY-USER)BG-EX01-EN-B04:PLOT
      0   3: I        1 page        328 bytes 1986-01-23 12:16:06 (FLOPPY-USER)BG-EX02-EN-B04:PLOT
      0   4: I        1 page        311 bytes 1986-01-23 12:16:16 (FLOPPY-USER)BG-EX03-EN-B04:PLOT
      0   5: I        1 page        425 bytes 1986-01-23 12:16:34 (FLOPPY-USER)BG-EX04-EN-B04:PLOT
      0   6: I        1 page        284 bytes 1986-01-23 12:16:47 (FLOPPY-USER)BG-EX05-EN-B04:PLOT
      0   7: I        1 page        593 bytes 1986-01-23 12:16:54 (FLOPPY-USER)BG-EX06-EN-B04:PLOT
      0   8: I       13 pages     25807 bytes 1986-08-12 15:33:31 (FLOPPY-USER)INST-BG132-B04:COM
      0   9: I       59 pages    182272 bytes 1986-01-23 12:17:33 (FLOPPY-USER)XCOM:PROG
    Directory size: 149 pages
    Bit file size : 1 page
    (and yes, running 'ndfs -t /dev/fd1' also works.
    Thanks Chuck, you saved the day again!
    Last edited by tingo; March 25th, 2018 at 04:35 AM. Reason: happy news
    Torfinn

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