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Thread: Show us your Tandy Computers!

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
    The pinouts from the cable look like this on the "strange" HX's:
    So... I guess I'm still not getting what's "different" about the cable; it looks to me like they just plugged the whole assembly in backwards, which would put the plastic key notch on the wrong side. IE, if you leave the highlights in the same place in the picture and rotate the end 180 degrees then the key peg will be on the "odd" side, and in that orientation it would match correctly with the orientation of the notch in the shroud on my HX's motherboard. (Pinouts.ru says the notch should be on the "odd" side, IE, facing down relative to the power pins in the orientation you're holding the cable, which again matches how my HX's motherboard connector is laid out.)

    Did any of the people with this problem detach the cable from the motherboard and verify that the motherboard actually has a notched shroud and *it* has the notch on the wrong side? Or, alternatively, did they check and find that the IDC connector in the center of their cables is rotated 180 degrees from the connectors on the end? Maybe Radio Shack just ditched the shroud on the motherboard connector and the assemblers started putting the cables in in random orientations.
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    So... I guess I'm still not getting what's "different" about the cable; it looks to me like they just plugged the whole assembly in backwards, which would put the plastic key notch on the wrong side. IE, if you leave the highlights in the same place in the picture and rotate the end 180 degrees then the key peg will be on the "odd" side, and in that orientation it would match correctly with the orientation of the notch in the shroud on my HX's motherboard. (Pinouts.ru says the notch should be on the "odd" side, IE, facing down relative to the power pins in the orientation you're holding the cable, which again matches how my HX's motherboard connector is laid out.)

    Did any of the people with this problem detach the cable from the motherboard and verify that the motherboard actually has a notched shroud and *it* has the notch on the wrong side? Or, alternatively, did they check and find that the IDC connector in the center of their cables is rotated 180 degrees from the connectors on the end? Maybe Radio Shack just ditched the shroud on the motherboard connector and the assemblers started putting the cables in in random orientations.
    Exactly, it looks like it's in backward but the keyed shroud should prevent this - these units definitely have a keyed shroud, it's the first thing I get folks to check. The second thing I get them to do is remove the key from the middle connector and reverse the cable and then everything works. It's a real head-scratcher.
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Apple's: IIc, Mac SE, LCII, LC630 & Power Mac G3/233 Desktop
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

  3. #153
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    It's backwards on my HX too. I think this is just because the drives the HX's used had the keyway on the opposite side of what we would now call "standard."

    HX floppy.jpg

    Tandy was using Shugart drives at least until the end of the 1000 line, and the PC "standard" was still in flux in 1987. By the RSX, they at least had the key the right way around, though you still needed to swap pins 10/12 if you wanted to use a regular floppy in place of the factory installed floppy (I had to replace mine).
    Last edited by blackepyon; November 21st, 2019 at 05:28 AM. Reason: added picture
    My vintage systems: Tandy 1000 HX, Tandy 1000 RSX, Tandy 1100FD, Tandy 64K CoCo 2, Commodore VIC-20, and some random Pentium in a Hewitt Rand chassis...

    Some people keep a classic car in their garage. Some people keep vintage computers. The latter hobby is cheaper, usually takes less space, and is less likely to lead to a fatal accident.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackepyon View Post
    It's backwards on my HX too. I think this is just because the drives the HX's used had the keyway on the opposite side of what we would now call "standard."

    HX floppy.jpg

    Tandy was using Shugart drives at least until the end of the 1000 line, and the PC "standard" was still in flux in 1987. By the RSX, they at least had the key the right way around, though you still needed to swap pins 10/12 if you wanted to use a regular floppy in place of the factory installed floppy (I had to replace mine).
    It's very odd that some are configured like this and others aren't - I'd never bothered looking at that section of the Tech manual before but you are correct that the notch is in the "wrong" place on the drive. Any chance you could post a couple of high res pics of the cable removed from your HX?

    This is a copy I made of a customer cable that had died.

    IMG_2044.jpg

    IMG_2040.jpg
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Apple's: IIc, Mac SE, LCII, LC630 & Power Mac G3/233 Desktop
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

  5. #155
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    So that cable in the picture definitely seems to have the key notch on the "wrong" side compared to the stripe, which is usually supposed to indicate pin one, at least if you plugged it into my HX motherboard. It *would* put the cable in the correct orientation if you were matching up with a floppy drive that had the notch on the "wrong" side.

    I do remember there being some inconsistancy with that keying, or whether it was even present at all. I have a floppy drive in the junk box that doesn't have a plastic shroud around the pins to enforce key orientation, but it does have a breakout-able notch on the circuit board for what would be the "correct" orientation today that never got the removable chunk knocked out, and many of my floppy cables don't have it...

    Which is why the stripe should indicate pin 1. Consistantly.
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    So that cable in the picture definitely seems to have the key notch on the "wrong" side compared to the stripe, which is usually supposed to indicate pin one, at least if you plugged it into my HX motherboard. It *would* put the cable in the correct orientation if you were matching up with a floppy drive that had the notch on the "wrong" side.

    I do remember there being some inconsistancy with that keying, or whether it was even present at all. I have a floppy drive in the junk box that doesn't have a plastic shroud around the pins to enforce key orientation, but it does have a breakout-able notch on the circuit board for what would be the "correct" orientation today that never got the removable chunk knocked out, and many of my floppy cables don't have it...

    Which is why the stripe should indicate pin 1. Consistantly.
    That cable is designed to connect to the mainboard via the center connector - I plugged it into my Amiga 1200 (also uses shugart) the "right way" and was able to drive a pair of goteks without issue.
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Apple's: IIc, Mac SE, LCII, LC630 & Power Mac G3/233 Desktop
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
    That cable is designed to connect to the mainboard via the center connector - I plugged it into my Amiga 1200 (also uses shugart) the "right way" and was able to drive a pair of goteks without issue.
    I looked up a picture of the Amiga 1200 motherboard and the ones I saw didn't seem to have a shroud around the pins.

    Anyway, what's "wrong" with that cable from a conventional standpoint is simply the fact that the keys are not all oriented the same relative to the wire. The middle one is flipped in such a way that it *would* put the colored pin at the wrong end of the connector. Here's a picture I took of my HX's motherboard connector with my ad-hoc adapter:

    close-up.jpg

    That cable I have plugged in there has little red spots instead of a clear stripe, but you can see the marked side and the "low" pins (the five 5v ones and the NC pin 0) are to the left of the notch in the connector hood. (IE, the notch on the motherboard connector is on the "Odd" side, like it is in the PC convention.) If we connected the center connector in that cable in your picture so the notch matched then the striped end would be over the three 12v pins to the right of the notch. Alternatively, if we plugged in either end connector then the stripe *would* be at the pin 1 position. That they're not consistent about key vs color orientation is *bad* and, worse, as this cable is laid out if you matched the center key to the motherboard and plugged a floppy into either end while observing the cable color *or* the "standard" (not tandy) notch orientation it'll be backwards to what it's supposed to be.

    If Tandy really wanted it to be like this they should have put the shroud on the motherboard backwards to match the drives. :b
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  8. #158

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    My A1200 doesn't have a shroud but it does have pin 1 marked quite clearly. When I installed it I did have the red wire up that end but never bothered checking to see which pin was actually pin 1. One good thing about testing on my Amiga's they dont have power in the cable to let the magic smoke out.

    Hmmm, it looks like I really should make an HX specific adapter range. I'm glad I pulled them until I could get to the bottom of the issues.
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Apple's: IIc, Mac SE, LCII, LC630 & Power Mac G3/233 Desktop
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
    It's very odd that some are configured like this and others aren't - I'd never bothered looking at that section of the Tech manual before but you are correct that the notch is in the "wrong" place on the drive. Any chance you could post a couple of high res pics of the cable removed from your HX?

    This is a copy I made of a customer cable that had died.

    IMG_2044.jpg

    IMG_2040.jpg
    May as well. I wanted to take it apart and clean the disk heads anyways. Probably ought to find myself a 3.5" cleaning disk.

    IMG_20191121_172324927.jpgIMG_20191121_172627914.jpg

    IMG_20191121_172751554 - crop.jpg
    Pretty much the same, only the stock cable is 14" instead of 17".
    My vintage systems: Tandy 1000 HX, Tandy 1000 RSX, Tandy 1100FD, Tandy 64K CoCo 2, Commodore VIC-20, and some random Pentium in a Hewitt Rand chassis...

    Some people keep a classic car in their garage. Some people keep vintage computers. The latter hobby is cheaper, usually takes less space, and is less likely to lead to a fatal accident.

  10. #160

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    Cheers, they are helpful to confirm I wasn’t going crazy.
    My Retro Collection:
    CBM: C64, Amiga 500 x2, 600 & 1200
    Apple's: IIc, Mac SE, LCII, LC630 & Power Mac G3/233 Desktop
    PC's: K6-III+ 500 System + Roland MT-32 & Tandy 1000 EX 640kb, 3.5" FDD, CF-IDE 4GB HDD
    Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc

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