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Thread: THE128RM (The 128 Remastered)

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffm3 View Post
    Given how unreliable/buggy the original CP/M cartridge was, I don't know why anyone would seriously consider that as a reasonable design decision. I have heard that the Z80 was necessary for determining whether to come up in 128 or 64 mode.
    I don't know if Bil Herd is around here, because he'd be able to give the story definitively, but the story I remember is that the Z80 solved two problems: it allowed the marketing androids to claim maximum C64 compatibility ("you don't need your CP/M 2.2 cartridge! it's built in!") and rectified the issue with cartridges like the Magic Voice which unexpectedly changed expansion port banking lines in realtime. This worked on the 64 but not on the 128, where MMU would already have initialized the system to 128 mode by the time the Magic Voice altered the banking again. By giving the Z80 the bootup task of checking for the Commodore key, which booted from a different location that the MV did not detect, the system could be brought up in 64 mode behind its back and the Magic Voice would function normally.
    I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse
    Machine room: http://www.floodgap.com/etc/machines.html

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicHasClass View Post
    By giving the Z80 the bootup task of checking for the Commodore key, which booted from a different location that the MV did not detect, the system could be brought up in 64 mode behind its back and the Magic Voice would function normally.
    That's my understanding as well. I think that was the main reason for its inclusion.

  3. #33
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    Connecticut, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffm3 View Post
    Given how unreliable/buggy the original CP/M cartridge was, I don't know why anyone would seriously consider that as a reasonable design decision. I have heard that the Z80 was necessary for determining whether to come up in 128 or 64 mode.
    IT didnt work with other CP/M disks, so it was useless.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bungo Pony View Post
    I can see a use for the Amiga 500 cases (you should see the abomination I'm going to be repairing in the next couple of weeks). As for re-making a Commodore 128, that falls under the "who cares" category. We already have multiple relaunches of the Commodore 64 (some good, some not), but why would anyone want to make a C-128? There's barely any software specifically for the 128, and the software that is available isn't all that great.
    I disagree.

    I run a C128 BBS board, and its been online for over 5 years continously. It's gone through 4 power supplies so far, and honestly, having a newer (and smaller) system would be awesome to keep it going.

    I have a second 128 always setup as well for CP/M and GEOS/Wheels. I'd love to have something newer to keep my hardware going.

  5. #35

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    I'm not saying that the C128 was a bad machine. In fact, I think the opposite. There's a lot of great stuff jammed into that case. I keep hoping I can find a use for the damn thing, but the enjoyable software library just isn't there. I find myself just using it as a glorified C64.

  6. #36
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    May 2016
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    Many years ago, I got lots of use from both my Commodore 128 and 128D in native mode, particularly when it came to GEOS 128 2.0. It was quite an improvement over GEOS on the 64, using geoWrite 128 in 80 column mode for true WYSIWYG (don't see that acronym much anymore ) word processing, and geoPaint 64 somehow worked fine (in 40 column mode) on it. I occasionally used my C=128/D in C=64 or CP/M modes, but I generally booted it up in 128 mode. I still have both of them in reserve; if I didn't, I'd probably be all over the remastered version.
    -Adam

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bungo Pony View Post
    ...the enjoyable software library just isn't there.
    Commercial Commodore 128 Specific Software/Hardware list

    http://retro-link.com/smf/index.php?topic=1366.0

    Truly,
    Robert Bernardo
    Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
    Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
    June 9-10 Pacific Commodore Expo NW 2018 - http://www.portcommodore.com/pacommex
    Aug. 11-12 Commodore Vegas Expo v14 2018 - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex

  8. #38

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    Hi everybody! We also found there is so little English information on the machine available, we invited creator Peter Reichenbach and talked to him on our podcast!

    https://scene.world/c128rm

    Enjoy listening!
    Cheers!

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicHasClass View Post
    I don't know if Bil Herd is around here, because he'd be able to give the story definitively, but the story I remember is that the Z80 solved two problems: it allowed the marketing androids to claim maximum C64 compatibility ("you don't need your CP/M 2.2 cartridge! it's built in!") and rectified the issue with cartridges like the Magic Voice which unexpectedly changed expansion port banking lines in realtime. This worked on the 64 but not on the 128, where MMU would already have initialized the system to 128 mode by the time the Magic Voice altered the banking again. By giving the Z80 the bootup task of checking for the Commodore key, which booted from a different location that the MV did not detect, the system could be brought up in 64 mode behind its back and the Magic Voice would function normally.
    I believe it was also necessary to build in auto-boot. The Z80 initializes the whole machine and checks the disks drives for bootable disks, after which it either keeps control of the machine (CP/M mode), cedes control back to the 128 and autoboots the disk, or cedes control and drops you in BASIC.

  10. #40

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    The Z80 doesn't check the disk, the 8502 does. The Z80 is only involved right up to the point where it decides how the MMU should be initialized. At that point the 8502 has control, either in 64 or 128 mode.

    When booting CP/M Plus, the 8502 checks the boot sector and reads the bootloader into memory, after which the Z80 takes control to run the operating system. In fact, BIOS calls are actually handled by the 8502, not the Z80.
    I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse
    Machine room: http://www.floodgap.com/etc/machines.html

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