Image Map Image Map
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38

Thread: Restoring a Apple Lisa 2/10 Need some driection please

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    173

    Default Restoring a Apple Lisa 2/10 Need some driection please

    I have three LISA 2 in my garage, and maybe three more on the way. I have never used one before. I want to restore them all as best I can.
    I have learned how to take one apart. Very cool the way Apple built these, by the way. I like the module design.
    I had a very, very generous person rebuild the PSU for the 2/10. So I know that is not going to be an issue. I know that there are different PSU's for different LISA models. I will not mix them unless that is OK to do?
    The I got the the 2/10 to power up. I see the system do a cpu/ram/i/o check, then it asks for a disk. I did a very through clean up inside and out before powering up. There was only a light coat of dust onside. I cleaned the FD heads.
    At this point please see the pictures.
    The screen is fuzzy on first power up. But still readable. See pis 1, no it is not the camera, that is how it looks. If I click restart the screen clears up nicely when it gets back to the same screen, pic 2. If I have it try to boot from the 3.5 HD, I get error 85 (where do I find error code definitions?) If I try to boot from a floppy, they system seems to load the program ok, but when it finishes, the screen is not readable. see pictures. I have 2 disks with the same programs on them. They both load the same way.
    I have reseated all socketed IC's on all boards. I have swapped the 2 memory cards, or removed one, and still get the same behavior. I only have the one program for test booting.
    I know there is some kind of OS setup disks out there, but do not know what they are called. I have an Apple IIGS that is working but I am very unfamiliar with how to use it.
    So you can see there are several issues to address. Suggestions please. Possible other site with in to other helpful forums?
    Many thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Atari Falcon 030/FX-1 CF & SD 14mb, Atari MSTE, Atari PS3000, STACY 4 /w UltraSatan SD, 4160STE-CosmosEX, Atari PC1-PCH204-2xPCF-551-PCM124, 1040STFM, 1040STF, 520ST(4mb, 16mhz), 400-48K & std kybrd, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL(256 Rambo,svideo,31-OS,APE upgrade), 130XE, XEGS, matching peripherals for all,
    Apple llGS ROM 3-4mb-CF HD, C64, 4+, IBM XT 5160, IT 99/4+, TRS80-4P, Amiga 500,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,299
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default

    Error code 85 refers to a fixed disk problem. You are a Lisa 2/10 so you probably have a Widget installed that's being unhappy.

    You are clearly having issues with the analog board. There are a number of lytics that I've had issues with in the past on multiple analog boards. Replace them all. It also does not hurt to clean the adjustment pots on the top of the analog board as over time they can develop a resistance issue and just twiddling the adjustment to the left and to the right and back clears it up, otherwise remember where each pot is set at before you move them.
    The analog board is a card located behind the CRT. you need to remove the top cover to access it. It comes out after removing two screws, the yoke harness and the base socket for the tube.



    Edited: wait, 3.5" HD? The Lisa never shipped with a 3.5" drive unless it was the Sun Remarketing hard disk option for the Macintosh XL. The internal Widget was 5.25". If so you might have to do a ROM swap to run LOS at all.

    Diskette images for LOS and I believe MacWorks are available at Mac Mothership in Disk Copy format. Any of the older 68K macs should be able to write floppies out for you.
    = Excellent space heater

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeXT View Post
    Edited: wait, 3.5" HD? The Lisa never shipped with a 3.5" drive unless it was the Sun Remarketing hard disk option for the Macintosh XL. The internal Widget was 5.25". If so you might have to do a ROM swap to run LOS at all.
    Sun Remarketing's 3.5" drive only works with Macworks, since it doesn't support tags, when it works at all. Most of their hard drives have failed, and there is no way to do a low-level format if you replace the drive.
    You also should check if the square pixel modifications have been made to the video if you intend to run any of the older software.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northfield, MN USA
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Kossow View Post
    You also should check if the square pixel modifications have been made to the video if you intend to run any of the older software.
    That was my guess - if he's booting LisaOS diskette on a machine with the pixel mod, that might explain the garbled video. Never tried it on one of my machines...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Thanks everyone.
    How to I find out if I have this pixel mod? What is it? is it needed?
    I do not have a 68000 apple machine. Only the IIGS. Is there another way to make apple lisa disks?
    Please see picture 3 for the floppy disk I am using to boot from. It is the only disk I have. (well I have two of the same disk)
    I will pull the 3.5" hard disk out a post a pic tonight.
    Is there a preferred cap list to upgrade the analog video card? If not is there a shopping list of caps that is used to make purchases?
    Atari Falcon 030/FX-1 CF & SD 14mb, Atari MSTE, Atari PS3000, STACY 4 /w UltraSatan SD, 4160STE-CosmosEX, Atari PC1-PCH204-2xPCF-551-PCM124, 1040STFM, 1040STF, 520ST(4mb, 16mhz), 400-48K & std kybrd, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL(256 Rambo,svideo,31-OS,APE upgrade), 130XE, XEGS, matching peripherals for all,
    Apple llGS ROM 3-4mb-CF HD, C64, 4+, IBM XT 5160, IT 99/4+, TRS80-4P, Amiga 500,

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    2,718

    Default

    It might be possible to write Lisa 3.5" disks using a Kryoflux with the procedure here for Macintosh low density disks: https://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?t=1090 although I don't know if that will preserve sector tags.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    173

    Default

    So I'm basically SOL for making LOS disks.
    I guess I need to ebay a powerbook. What 68K mac would be best? Something that can get on the internet and load websites well enough to be readable, and download files?
    Atari Falcon 030/FX-1 CF & SD 14mb, Atari MSTE, Atari PS3000, STACY 4 /w UltraSatan SD, 4160STE-CosmosEX, Atari PC1-PCH204-2xPCF-551-PCM124, 1040STFM, 1040STF, 520ST(4mb, 16mhz), 400-48K & std kybrd, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL(256 Rambo,svideo,31-OS,APE upgrade), 130XE, XEGS, matching peripherals for all,
    Apple llGS ROM 3-4mb-CF HD, C64, 4+, IBM XT 5160, IT 99/4+, TRS80-4P, Amiga 500,

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,299
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default

    The pixel mod hardware for the Lisa is basically some "magic" potted in a cylindrical block that fits between the base of the tube and the tube socket from the analog board. It will be extremely obvious if it's installed as it looks out of place. It simply changes the screen dimensions to allow for pixels to be square in appearance and works alongside the ROM upgrade.

    I have written Lisa floppies on a number of macs from the Macintosh SE to the Quadra 950 so really whatever you can find should work. Adding network support however, can't help you there as I have never really tried with the early PowerPC machines (when Apple started packaging networking onboard) but I know that not much later on with my Mainstreet Powerbook G3 it simply would not write a floppy in the Lisa's nonstandard format so that that as a caution that it may not work with later and slightly more easier to find PPC macs.

    For what capacitors to get for the analog card, just pull it and take a look. Only replace the lytics. Leave the film and ceramics alone.
    = Excellent space heater

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeXT View Post
    I know that not much later on with my Mainstreet Powerbook G3 it simply would not write a floppy in the Lisa's nonstandard format
    I use a G3 Wallstreet as my main floppy transfer machine. It will write a Disk Copy 4.2 (.dc42) 400K image just fine with 800K media.
    The problem with laptops is media bay floppy drives can be hard to find, since most people had cd-rom drives in the media bay.
    When I need to use an 800K floppy drive, I have an SE/30 that I shuttle a SCSI drive back and forth between it and the G3 for file transfers.

    First-generation G3's are still pretty cheap, and make nice MacOS machines.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,299
    Blog Entries
    41

    Default

    Al's word is second to that of god as this is his line of work, so if he says it works then I can't contest.
    Question, what version of the MacOS were you running? I've heard rumors that after MacOS 8 Apple began messing with supported floppy formats.
    = Excellent space heater

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •