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Thread: Next Challenge: Hyperion that won't display text

  1. #11
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    I wonder... would it be possible to dump the EPROM from within dos? I am wondering if I can rig something up to do that automatically and write it to a txt file. Then I could see if mine is any good.

  2. #12
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    Okay so I have read the circuit description more and am starting to (I think) understand how different parts of the display board work and interact with each other. I can see for example the line that goes high or low based on whether the machine is in alphanumeric mode or graphics, and I can observe that line working as the machine loads Kings Quest. I can see data moving between the char gen EPROM and the attributes controller. The EPROM determines which characters to display, the attributes controller determines things like whether characters are underlined or blinking or superscript or subscript. I can see how super script and subscription attributes are triggered on or off in their own section.

    One line that has caught my attention is CB3. According to the description, if CB3 is high, the character bits are passed unmodified past the attributes controller. If it is low, the attributes controller determines and applies the changes, like superscript or doublewidth and then modifies the bits to have those attributes.

    What I am seeing right now is that CB3 is always low. So if I'm understanding right, this is forcing the attributes controller, which is a little iffy, to try to modify the text to be displayed. To what, I don't know. The super/subscript circuit is inactive, so it's not that. I don't think it's anything.. I think CB3 may simply be stuck low and maybe that's why it's producing nothing, because the attributes controller isn't getting any instruction on how to modify.

    I think an experiment for tomorrow would be to figure out a way to either force CB3 high, or force one of the attributes (like underline) high to see if we get anything passing through the controller.

    I've traced CB3 on the schematic back to (I think) my old arch nemesis... the 74LS273. I've tangled with these in several old video circuits and they do seem to have a higher than average fail rate.

    Anyway... I'm not sure how I'll force CB3 or one of the attributes high.. but I'll figure something out.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by snuci View Post
    The white one shown here? Yes. Surprisingly in good shape in all cases I've seen.

    http://vintagecomputer.ca/wp-content...behind-CRT.jpg
    2 out of 3 of mine are fine; the third one did start to leak.

  4. #14
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    I decided to put this on the bench and get it apart to check things. The first thing I wanted to do was make sure the Character generator ROM was good. I desoldered it and did a dump. Here is what I've got. I'm wondering if anyone with more experienced eyes can tell me if this looks like good data. I've not yet been able to find a dump of the char gen by anyone else so I don't have much to compare to. It's not all FFs, so I don't think the chip is completely dead.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lb6...ew?usp=sharing

  5. #15
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    The first thing I wanted to do was make sure the Character generator ROM was good. I desoldered it and did a dump. Here is what I've got.
    It looks like you have captured the Characters. The Schematic shows you have either a Text or Graphics Selection. Then the U21 IC has Signals
    SL0 - RS0 Pin 16
    SL1 - RS1 Pin 15
    SL2 - RS2 Pin 13
    SL3 - RS3 Pin 14

    Which give you Rows 0 thru 0xF = 16 Rows of Data for each character. I selected a couple at random (marked with *) and they look sane.

    Code:
    00000000000000000000000000000000
    003C4281A58181A599423C0000000000
    003C7EFFDBFFFFDBE77E3C0000000000
    000066FFFFFF7E3C1800000000000000
    0000081C3E7F3E1C0800000000000000
    0000081C087F2A080800000000000000
    0000081C3E7F2A080800000000000000
    00000000183C3C180000000000000000
    00FFFFFFE7C3C3E7FFFFFF0000000000
    0000003C424242423C00000000000000
    00FFFFC3BDBDBDBDC3FFFF0000000000
    00070305087088888870000000000000
    00384444443810103810000000000000
    00101C1E121010103070600000000000
    003028342A262262E6CE0C0000000000
    0008491C226322221C49080000000000
    00004060707870604000000000000000
    000002060E1E0E060200000000000000
    0010387C101010107C38100000000000
    00666666666666006600000000000000
    007E9494947414141400000000000000
    00384440384444380444380000000000  *
    0000000000007C7C7C00000000000000
    00081C3E0808083E1C087F0000000000
    00103854101010101000000000000000  *
    00101010101054381000000000000000
    00000004027F02040000000000000000
    00000010207F20100000000000000000
    000000004040407E0000000000000000
    0000002466FF66240000000000000000
    00000000081C3E7F0000000000000000
    000000007F3E1C080000000000000000
    00000000000000000000000000000000
    00181818181800181800000000000000
    006C6C6C6C0000000000000000000000
    0014147F147F14140000000000000000
    0000183E403C027C1800000000000000
    000062660C1830664600000000000000
    00001824183A44443A00000000000000
    00000C18300000000000000000000000
    00000408101010080400000000000000
    00002010080808102000000000000000
    0000002A1C3E1C2A0000000000000000
    00000008083E08080000000000000000
    00000000000000181830000000000000
    00000000003E00000000000000000000
    00000000000000181800000000000000
    00000102040810204000000000000000
    00003C42464A52623C00000000000000
    00000818180808081C00000000000000
    00003C42040810207E00000000000000
    00003C42021C02423C00000000000000
    00000C14247E04040400000000000000
    00007E40407C02027C00000000000000
    00003C42407C42423C00000000000000
    00007E42040810101000000000000000
    00003C42423C42423C00000000000000
    00003C42423E02423C00000000000000
    00000018180000181800000000000000
    00000018180000181830000000000000
    00000408102010080400000000000000
    000000007E007E000000000000000000
    00002010080408102000000000000000
    00003844041810001000000000000000
    00003C425E565C403C00000000000000
    00001824427E42424200000000000000
    00007C42427C42427C00000000000000
    00003C42404040423C00000000000000
    00007C42424242427C00000000000000
    00007E40407C40407E00000000000000
    00007E40407C40404000000000000000
    00003C42404E42423E00000000000000
    00004242427E42424200000000000000
    00003810101010103800000000000000
    00000E04040444443800000000000000
    00006224283028246200000000000000
    00006020202020227E00000000000000
    000042665A4242424200000000000000
    00004262725A4E464200000000000000
    00003C42424242423C00000000000000
    00007C42427C40404000000000000000
    00003C424242424A3C02000000000000
    00007C22223C22226200000000000000
    00003C42403C02423C00000000000000
    00007C54101010103800000000000000
    00004242424242423E00000000000000
    00004242424242241800000000000000
    0000424242425A664200000000000000
    00004242241824424200000000000000
    00004444281010101000000000000000
    00007E04081020407E00000000000000
    00001C10101010101C00000000000000
    00004020100804020100000000000000
    00003808080808083800000000000000
    00000008142241000000000000000000
    000000000000000000FF000000000000
    000030180C0000000000000000000000
    0000000038043C443E00000000000000
    000060203C2222227C00000000000000
    000000003C4040403C00000000000000
    000006043C4444443E00000000000000
    000000003C427E403E00000000000000
    00001C22207820207000000000000000
    000000003E44443C0478000000000000
    000060203C2222226200000000000000
    00001000301010103800000000000000
    0000020002020242423C000000000000
    00006020242830286400000000000000
    00003010101010103800000000000000
    00000000542A2A2A2A00000000000000
    000000007C2222222200000000000000
    000000003C4242423C00000000000000
    000000007C22223C2070000000000000
    000000003E44443C040E000000000000
    000000006C3220202000000000000000
    000000003E403C027C00000000000000
    00002020207020201C00000000000000
    00000000444444443E00000000000000
    00000000424242241800000000000000
    00000000414149552200000000000000
    00000000442810284400000000000000
    000000004242423E027C000000000000
    000000007C0810207C00000000000000
    00000C10103010100C00000000000000
    00001010100010101000000000000000
    00003008080C08083000000000000000
    00000000314946000000000000000000
    000008142241417F0000000000000000
    00003C424040423C1808000000000000
    00006600444444443E00000000000000
    003060003C427E403E00000000000000
    00386C0038043C443E00000000000000
    0000660038043C443E00000000000000
    00180C0038043C443E00000000000000
    0018180038043C443E00000000000000
    000000003C40403C1808000000000000
    00386C003C427E403E00000000000000
    000066003C427E403E00000000000000
    00180C003C427E403E00000000000000
    00006600301010103800000000000000
    00386C00301010103800000000000000
    00180C00301010103800000000000000
    0066001824427E424200000000000000
    0018001824427E424200000000000000
    003060007E407C407E00000000000000
    00000000370C3F4C3F00000000000000
    00003E48487C48484E00000000000000
    00386C003C4242423C00000000000000
    000066003C4242423C00000000000000
    00180C003C4242423C00000000000000
    00386C00444444443E00000000000000
    00180C00444444443E00000000000000
    000066004242423E027C000000000000
    0066003C424242423C00000000000000
    00660042424242423E00000000000000
    0000083E4848483E0800000000000000
    00001820207020627C00000000000000
    00004428107C007C1010000000000000
    0000704870444E444400000000000000
    00000C12103810906000000000000000
    0030600038043C443E00000000000000
    00306000301010103800000000000000
    003060003C4242423C00000000000000
    00306000444444443E00000000000000
    00324C007C2222222200000000000000
    00324C00615149454300000000000000
    003C023E423E007E0000000000000000
    003C4242423C007E0000000000000000
    00001000101804443800000000000000
    000000003E2020202000000000000000
    000000007C0404040400000000000000
    00206024281622440E00000000000000
    002060242A162A4E0200000000000000
    00001818001818181800000000000000
    00000000122448241200000000000000
    00000000482412244800000000000000
    00228822882288228822880000000000
    0055AA55AA55AA55AA55AA0000000000
    00BBEEBBEEBBEEBBEEBBEE0000000000
    00101010101010101010100000000000
    001010101010F0101010100000000000
    00101010F010F0101010100000000000
    002424242424E4242424240000000000
    000000000000FC242424240000000000
    00000000F010F0101010100000000000
    00242424E404E4242424240000000000
    00242424242424242424240000000000
    00000000FC04E4242424240000000000
    00242424E404FC000000000000000000
    002424242424FC000000000000000000
    00101010F010F0000000000000000000
    000000000000F0101010100000000000
    0010101010101F000000000000000000
    001010101010FF000000000000000000
    000000000000FF101010100000000000
    0010101010101F101010100000000000
    000000000000FF000000000000000000
    001010101010FF101010100000000000
    001010101F101F101010100000000000
    00242424242427242424240000000000 *
    0024242427203F000000000000000000
    000000003F2027242424240000000000
    00242424E700FF000000000000000000
    00000000FF00E7242424240000000000
    00242424272027242424240000000000
    00000000FF00FF000000000000000000
    00242424E700E7242424240000000000
    00101010FF00FF000000000000000000
    002424242424FF000000000000000000
    00000000FF00FF101010100000000000
    000000000000FF242424240000000000
    00242424243F00000000000000000000
    001010101F101F000000000000000000
    000000001F101F101010100000000000
    0000000000003F242424240000000000
    002424242424FF242424240000000000
    00101010FF10FF101010100000000000
    001010101010F0000000000000000000
    0000000000001F101010100000000000
    00FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0000000000
    000000000000FFFFFFFFFF0000000000
    00F0F0F0F0F0F0F0F0F0F00000000000
    000F0F0F0F0F0F0F0F0F0F0000000000
    00FFFFFFFFFF00000000000000000000
    000000324C48484C3200000000000000
    00003C427C42427C4000000000000000
    00007E42424040404000000000000000
    0000007E242424242400000000000000
    00007E22100810227E00000000000000
    000000003F4444443800000000000000
    0000004242427C404080000000000000
    000000023C4808080800000000000000
    00007E183C423C187E00000000000000
    00003C42427E42423C00000000000000
    0000003C424224246600000000000000
    0000001C10083C423C00000000000000
    000000365D49495D3600000000000000
    0000023C464A52623C40000000000000
    00001E20407E40201E00000000000000
    0000003C424242424200000000000000
    0000007E007E007E0000000000000000
    000008083E0808003E00000000000000
    00006018061860007E00000000000000
    00000618601806007E00000000000000
    00000000000709080808080000000000
    00080808084830000000000000000000
    00000018007E00180000000000000000
    000000324C00324C0000000000000000
    00003C42423C00000000000000000000
    00000000183C18000000000000000000
    00000000181800000000000000000000
    000F0808080868281800000000000000
    006C3222222200000000000000000000
    00304810207800000000000000000000
    000000003C3C3C3C3C00000000000000
    00000000000000000000000000000000
    
     
      
      
      00 --------
      38 --XXX---
      44 -X---X--
      40 -X------
      38 --XXX---
      44 -X---X--
      44 -X---X--
      38 --XXX---
      04 -----X--
      44 -X---X--
      38 --XXX---
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
      
      
      00 --------
      10 ---X----
      38 --XXX---
      54 -X-X-X--
      10 ---X----
      10 ---X----
      10 ---X----
      10 ---X----
      10 ---X----
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
      00 --------
    So, it appears you have the characters captured. (I might be off a row or two, as the characters might be displayed
    a row lower than I have selected.)


    Larry

  6. #16
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    And my two characters matches the Technical Manual

    There is also the Maintenance Manual #1
    There is also the Maintenance Manual #2

    vintagecomputer.ca/files/Dynalogic Hyperion/

    Those documents should help you.

    In the above Character file, the first row of ZERO's needs to be deleted and then the numbering will match in an editor (with the Tech Manual).

    Larry
    Last edited by ldkraemer; March 20th, 2019 at 01:46 PM.

  7. #17
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    Thanks Larry.

    Ok so I think this is coming down to the attributes controller. It's a pity the only places that have them want a minimum order of $200. There are quite a few Hyperions out there with this problem and I did read a few cryptic messages in other forums about how Hyperions go bad like this. Maybe gotta find other owners and do a group order.

    The hint for me is the cursor on mine, which came back after I temporarily cut the Video out leg on the controller. After I resoldered I had a proper signal there and a cursor. But it doesn't blink and from what I can see the attributes controller handles the blinking.

  8. #18
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    falter,
    In looking at the Technical manual and Maintenance manuals, there seems to be several different video boards. At least there
    are several schematics. Better double check yours with the Manuals and make 100% sure you are using one that matches
    your Board.

    PS. I've got all the Character Generator Characters in a file, but they don't look very well being stretched with the characters
    I've used to display them. I'm still trying things.

    Larry

  9. #19
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    I'm being gently poked by The Hackery/Disappearing Inc. that they have FIVE Hyperions and they are about to get ready to start parts swapping and repairing them. This might be a good time if you are still working on this to schmooze on in and see if you can get in on the action.
    = Excellent space heater

  10. #20
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    Man I miss so many posts! Just catching yours now NeXT.

    I think I am honing in on the problem. As I mentioned in another post, I ended up finding a supplier for the 8021-003 chip I needed. I got 10 of them (minimum order). I was a bit suspicious of their provenance, as they did not match the vintage looking pics the supplier sent me. I installed a new one and got no change, so I thought.. damn, these must be fakes. However, checking my logic probe and scope, it appears they *are* working and doing something.

    So I re-read the 8021-003 datasheet, and it says you can pretty much connect a monitor directly to the VID pin. So I thought, ok, what the heck. So I connected a composite monitor's video pin to the VID pin on the SMC, and check this out:

    20190911_212241.jpg

    Now, I couldn't get the screen to stabilize, it was producing two or three cursors and waving them all over the place (maybe because the chip is in circuit) But -- there's text there! The SMC chip *is* producing text. It's just not getting to the screen or composite out on the machine.

    So I gotta think my problem is downstream. Something in between the SMC and the video output. There's a 7474, a 7408, a 74157 and so on. All chips i have spares for, so I'm going to just dig into this sucker and replace em until I figure out which it is.

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