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Thread: USB FPGA Logic Analyzers: Worth Investigating?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikola-wan View Post
    I just got an HP disassembler pod with a 6800 module for my logic analyzer - and plan to use it to debug a tougher problem on my 4924 tape drive.
    How much did the pod set you back?
    My vintage systems: Tandy 1000 HX, Tandy 1100FD, Tandy 1000 RSX, and some random Pentium in a Hewitt Rand chassis...

    Some people keep a classic car in their garage. Some people keep vintage computers. The latter hobby is cheaper, usually takes less space, and is less likely to lead to a fatal accident.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackepyon View Post
    How much did the pod set you back?
    The issue with HP preprocessors for older microprocessors is the limited supply. I have an HP 64672A / 10307B - 6800 / 6802 preprocessor that I bought on eBay several years ago. It was probably somewhere around $75 at the time. I don't recall seeing any other of those on eBay since then, if I had I probably would have bought them as well. If you want one you may be looking a long time before you find one.

    Some of the HP preprocessors are nothing more than buffers for the CPU signals and a mechanical interface that makes it easy to attach the analyzer to the target system.

    For example, the 64683A / 10300B - Z80 preprocessor is nothing more than a few 74LS240 and 74LS241 buffers. That works well for the inverse assembler as the Z80 /M1 and /MREQ signals can be used to uniquely identify opcode fetch cycles.

    On the other hand the 64672A / 10307B - 6800 / 6802 preprocessor contains a state machine that follows and partially decodes the CPU bus cycles to identify opcode fetch cycles and provide additional status signals to the inverse assembler beyond the status signals that are directly available from the CPU.

    There are two versions of the HP 6800 / 6802 inverse assembler. One which works with the preprocessor, and another one which works without the preprocessor and can be used with the logic analyzer attached directly to the CPU signals. The second version displays less cycle type information for each state that is captured by the logic analyzer.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackepyon View Post
    How much did the pod set you back?
    I got the probe module and a set of interface boards for shipping cost from Australia. It included 68000, 6800/6802, 8085, 8086/8088, Z80, Z8001 and Z8002 pre-processor modules. It also included the HP mini data cassette tapes that are labelled as holding the inverse assembler software for the 8086/88, Z8001/02, 6800/02, and 68000. There was a tape with no label that appeared to have a newer 6800 inverse assembler.

    Since I didn't have an HP 82161 HP-IL tape drive, I bought one on EBAY and also bought two HP-IL cables and a blank HP mini data cassette tape. Received the lot yesterday, and loaded all the tapes into my HP 1630A. All the tapes worked except the Z8001/Z8002 tape.

    I found I couldn't load the 6800 tape without first manually creating labels for ADDR, DATA and STAT. There was service manual docs including schematics for all the pre-processors, and a 6809 service guide listed the required pod connections for a 1630.

    I haven't tried the 6800 pre-processor yet.

    One thing I noticed - the 1630A does not have persistent memory, so you need to set the date/time, then load the instrument setup file (or manually configure the three labels, then the inverse assembler file.

    The 6800 cable has a couple of broken pins - so I'll need to fix that first. That cable is labeled 6800/6802, so I'm not sure if I substitute the 40 pin cable from another pod - if it will work. I'll check the service guide schematics before I do anything.

    I also just bought and received from EBAY an HP 10269C General Purpose Probe interface for HP 1650x logic analyzers that included a 10320C User Definable I/O module - but no cable. The preprocessors from Australia look like they will also work in the 10269C. When I removed the User Definable I/O module I found the board inside is partially wired. That kit included the box and docs for the User Definable module. I'll be testing this in the 16500B I just fixed.

    Another purchase netted me a 10269B GP Probe Interface for the 1630A/D/G with another User Definable I/O Module. This time, that module had another label: 50601A/002 AD & I 8031 Preprocessor including a cable with a DIP 8031 connected to a quad package probe.
    Last edited by nikola-wan; July 6th, 2019 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Updated to add other pre-processor info

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikola-wan View Post
    I got the probe module and a set of interface boards for shipping cost from Australia. It included 68000, 6800/6802, 8085, 8086/8088, Z80, Z8001 and Z8002 pre-processor modules.
    If you have a floppy, make LIF backups of those.
    The preprocessors are hard to find.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikola-wan View Post
    There was service manual docs including schematics for all the pre-processors, and a 6809 service guide listed the required pod connections for a 1630.
    Can you list the part numbers of the service manuals that you have? For example I have seen a reference online to a 64672-90903 service manual for the 64672B 6800 / 6802 preprocessor, but can't find any scans of that manual online. I'm curious have much detail that has on the state machine in the 6800 / 6802 preprocessor.

    I don't see any service manuals for the preprocessors here, just user manuals:
    www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/64000/
    www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/64000_documentation_cd/
    www.bitsavers.org/test_equipment/hp/logic_analyzer_preprocessors/

    If Al doesn't have copies of the preprocessor service manuals that have not yet been scanned and converted to PDFs it would be great to get the set of service manuals that you have scanned.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Kossow View Post
    If you have a floppy, make LIF backups of those.
    The preprocessors are hard to find.
    I have a 6809 inverse assembler tape. I have an HP 82161A tape drive which I have not yet used to try reading the tape. I'm not sure how I would go about copying the data off of the HP 82161A tape drive to archive it. I have an 82169A HP-IL/HP-IB Interface, and a Series 80 82938A HP-IL Interface I could use. Has anyone uses either of those interfaces to copy the data off of an HP 82161A tape drive, and have some pointers on how to go about doing that?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Kossow View Post
    If you have a floppy, make LIF backups of those.
    The preprocessors are hard to find.
    Al, I don't have an HP-IL floppy, but I have a PIL-Box Kit on order that may be able to capture the files.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by gslick View Post
    Can you list the part numbers of the service manuals that you have? For example I have seen a reference online to a 64672-90903 service manual for the 64672B 6800 / 6802 preprocessor, but can't find any scans of that manual online. I'm curious have much detail that has on the state machine in the 6800 / 6802 preprocessor.

    I don't see any service manuals for the preprocessors here, just user manuals:
    www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/64000/
    www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/64000_documentation_cd/
    www.bitsavers.org/test_equipment/hp/logic_analyzer_preprocessors/

    If Al doesn't have copies of the preprocessor service manuals that have not yet been scanned and converted to PDFs it would be great to get the set of service manuals that you have scanned.
    I plan to scan all the documents - because I couldn't find any online either.

    Here is a list of the service guide part numbers I have:
    1. HP Model 10269A General Purpose Interface, Service Brief 10269-90901, printed December 1982
    2. HP Model 64683A Z80 Interface Module, Service Brief 64683-90901, printed January 1983
    3. HP Model 64655A 8085 Interface Module, Service Brief 64655-90903, printed January 1983
    4. HP Model 64653A 8086/8088 Dedicated Interface Card, Service Brief 64653-90904, printed February 1983
    5. HP Model 64670A 68000 Interface Card, Service Brief 64670-90901, printed December 1982
    6. HP Model 64681A Z8001 Interface Module, Service Brief 64681-90903, printed January 1983
    7. HP Model 64672A 6800/02 Interface Module, Service Brief 64672-90901, printed September 1983
    8. the docs also included the HP 82161A Digital Cassette Drive Owner's Manual - I couldn't find the english version on the web


    the 6800 guide has a couple of pages of operation, and parts and schematics. It does indicate there are three PROMs in series for the state machine decode and then shows a table of the sixteen states it can display.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by gslick View Post
    I have a 6809 inverse assembler tape. I have an HP 82161A tape drive which I have not yet used to try reading the tape. I'm not sure how I would go about copying the data off of the HP 82161A tape drive to archive it. I have an 82169A HP-IL/HP-IB Interface, and a Series 80 82938A HP-IL Interface I could use. Has anyone uses either of those interfaces to copy the data off of an HP 82161A tape drive, and have some pointers on how to go about doing that?
    I'll bet you could capture the HP-IL traffic from your HP-IL to HP-IB Interface with a GPIB analyzer.

    If you have an HP computer with HP-IL, it might be able to capture the file directly?

    I've been successful capturing "PRINT" output from my HP 1630A on the GPIB interface using a National Instruments USB to GPIB interface with the KEF5X GPIB "listen" utility on a notebook computer.
    file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/K...kit/readme.htm

    Since the PRINT format is HP PCL, I then use BRISS to view the screens. If you PRINT in text format - you can see the text captures in Notepad++

  10. #30

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    sorry, bad URL to KEF5X GPIB Utilities:
    http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/readme.htm

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